If Coyle doesn’t fire Pitino...

[GopherBlood777]

I feel like the 2020 commits chose mn for the school more so than the coach even though mash does have a long standing relationship with Pitino

 

[bga1]

The two most likely are Ihnen and Tre Williams. Guys like Greenlee and Freeman are no loss. Carr and Willis have already transferred once.

Freeman would be a loss. He will be a solid player, not a star but a solid player. Kid is big and strong and can board. He'll get there. Even if he doesn't start he will be good depth. We need depth.

 

[Go Gophs]

He is certainly a better recruiter than he is a motivator. I believe the major difference in the past two games has been Gabe's FG %. He usually plays much better, he is on a shit streak, and we are losing close games.

Then sit his arse down. Or tell him to quit shooting and move the ball. This isn't that hard. 1-10 on three pointers. Quit shooting them.

 

[Outsider]

Then how come they crapped their pants come March Madness??? After those first 2 seasons, just one of the next 13 did they do better in the NCAA tourney then they were predicted to do, but FIVE TIMES they did worse.

So let me get this straight, if Few had been available or willing to move seven years ago when we hired Pitino you would have still hired Richard knowing what you know now? I would take Few many times over where we are now even if he is coming from that conference. Sorry but the national tournament is pretty much a crapshoot every year and lately it’s even getting tougher for the big shots to win. Him having been there so much and even underperforming according to your analysis is laughable. I have generally been a Pitino supporter but it is time for someone else to get a crack at this program

 

[MaxyJR1]

How much does being Rick Pitino's kid hurt Richard on the recruiting trail? Maybe it's because I think Rick is a sleaze, I think it can't help.

 

[GrampaGopher]

If they fire Pitino, which I believe will happen, the first order of business for the new coach is to recruit the players on the roster to stay. If he is an established winner like Beilein, that becomes an easier recruiting process, but undoubtedly some will leave.

Many seem to undersell what the U basketball has to offer. That we have been to only 14 NCAA tournaments in program history; that we last won the Big Ten in 1982. Wisconsin was a doormat for many years, until Dick Bennett started to build something. The U has all the ingredients to be a consistent winner in the Big Ten we just need to get the right coach (see Gopher football).

 

[watertown 1987 guy n]

How much does being Rick Pitino's kid hurt Richard on the recruiting trail? Maybe it's because I think Rick is a sleaze, I think it can't help.

My guess is none, they are different people so why should it matter? Do people hold you accountable for your parents imperfections.

 

[Ope3]

My guess is none, they are different people so why should it matter? Do people hold you accountable for your parents imperfections.

You don't think at least once Richard has been asked about the Louisville violations, some of which occurred while he was on the staff? Face it one of the primary reasons he was hired was due to his last name. That brand eventually took a hit.

 

[MNgradinWI]

I agree, and if we do move on, it's likely it will be a few years before we get back to where we could be next year if we don't, even if we do improve our long term prospects. But my greatest fear is that people will quickly become impatient with the next coach and we will once again be starting over. I have a lot of confidence in Coyle to make the right decision here, and the right hire, if that's what he decides to do. But if he does replace Pitino, I just hope that our fan base has the patience to give that hire the time needed to take this program to where I think it can go.
Why does everyone seem to think that a new coach equals all of our players leaving??? If the coach is good...they will most likely stay unless they are not welcome. I.E. Spoofin's comments that the Football team wouldn't get or keep any players after Clayes was let go. How did that go again?? We are a below 500 team. If a few players leave we will be okay.

 

[washgopher]

Mark Few would not finish behind Wisconsin all 7 years. Your just cherry picking a one and done tourney. Few is a big time winner. Just my opinion but i would not put Pitino in the Few comparison. So you want to wait how many years ?

I live near Gonzaga and Few is excellent, wins with stars injured, wins consistantly and in a small town.

 

[builtbadgers]

So a #1 seed, a #2 seed, TWO #3 seeds and a #4 seed, and only 2 trips to the Sweet 16???

That's a coach with a team that's gotten overrated. Or it's an overrated coach?


Then a #6 seed and a #7 seed that both lost in the FIRST ROUND.


That's 5 out of 13 seasons that ended in disappointment.

Are you saying Pitino is a better coach than Few ? Mark is very highly thought of by every single coach. Your measuring only tourney success by seed in a one and done game. You have to be damn good to get a one seed no matter your conference. The metric show out as tremendously successful. You only need to win two 4 team tournaments to get to a final 4 but it is one bad shooting night and your gone. Mark Few is one of the 10 best or better active coaches. We would trade in a minute.

 

[GopherGod]

I

How much does being Rick Pitino's kid hurt Richard on the recruiting trail? Maybe it's because I think Rick is a sleaze, I think it can't help.

What hurts him most is not being out on the recruiting trail. Makes him a good dad going to most of your young kids activities, but doesn’t help in big time basketball recruiting. When you have 70 year old coaches flying across the country who are grinding harder than you on the recruiting trail with recruits in your own state, it’s hard to win.

 

[PMWinSTP]

All of you Mark Few fans/apologists look at his accomplishments and compare them to Minnesota, and Monson, a school that was hit with some of the worst sanctions and restrictions and whose reputation took one of the worst hits EVER. But believe whatever you all want.

If my team is going to the NCAA tourney every single year I'd expect more than 2 Sweet 16s in 13 straight trips, which also included 3 first round exits, as a #6, a #7 and a #10 seed. And of their 2nd round exits, one of those was as a #1 seed, another as a #2 seed and another as a #3 seed. Their 2 trips to the Sweet 16 were as a #3 and a #4 seed, so basically doing only what they were supposed to. As for the other 2nd round exits, one was as a #7 seed, two as #8 seeds and one as a #9 seed, so all 4 of those were also no better or worse than they were expected to do.

So, basically, there was ONLY ONE YEAR where Gonzaga exceeded expectations over that 13 year period, and that was their winning a 1st round game as an #11 seed, which is the seed where the most upsets happen, so again, HARDLY a big upset.


So... Few lived off of the Elite 8 run in 99, his first 2 years, then went 13 seasons straight only once exceeding expectations despite earning 13 straight chances to pull off an unexpected run, and how did he/they "earn" it? By dominating a league that before Gonzaga's Elite 8 run, was a 1 school invite only conference. And how hard was it supposed to be to dominate such a weak league after that Elite 8 run and the following back to back Sweet 16 runs with mostly Monson's players?


And trying to point at Monson's time at Minnesota as proof of anything is disingenuous at best as NO ONE could have won at Minnesota at that time and then who was going to hire Monson after that, and who was going to want to go and play bb for him? Maybe Few was more responsible for the 99 run than Monson was, but it's not fair comparing the two straight up as their circumstances were in no way equal. Had we taken Few instead of Monson, I'd bet Monson would have done BETTER at Gonzaga, than Few did for the first 5-6 years after that 99 season, and Few would have struggled just as much, if not more at Minnesota and then we'd have let him go and then he'd have been the one stuck having to go to some crappy school to try to resurrect his coaching reputation. I might be wrong, I admit as much. But I might be right, too.

And naming sources at Gonzaga??? lol Yeah, sure, because they'd be unbiased? BS, of course they are going to pimp their current coach.

This has to be a bit... right?

 

[Bad Gopher]

This has to be a bit... right?

It has to be. Mark Few will be in the hall of fame some day.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Im in the give pitino 1 more year camp. He has recruited meh (Gaston, Hurt, Demir, Carlos Morris, Jelly, Seattle kid, etc..) , has had some bad luck (Lynch rape, Coffey injury, sex tape, etc..) but he has made it to the tournament twice. He's doing at least as well as Tubby, is that mediocre? maybe. Good recruits coming in, if Oturu stays its gonna be a great team next year. I like Ihnen, Carr, and Williams. If Mashburn can provide some shooting and Gabe gets his groove back we will be pretty solid.

He has a worse record than Tubby and fewer Tournament appearances. Tubby has had his share of bad luck too. Royce and Mbwake & Nolen being Academically Ineligible Midway through the 09-10 season where they still made it to the Big Ten Championship game and the Tourney. 10-11 They beat UNC and were ranked top 15 the Nolen broke his foot. I don't understand why we keep acting like we will hit rock bottom if we don't keep Pitino when we are currently on pace to finish 10th or lower in 4 of his 7 seasons. Tubby never finished below 9th in the Big Ten. If we talking taking a step back, Pitino was that step back and he has done nothing that leads me to believe we will improve

 

[vagopher]

I'm not sure anyone has suggested that ALL players will leave in the event that Pitino leaves. There may well be some, and I do think it is likely that Jamal Mashburn will de-commit. My understanding is that he has a personal relationship with Pitino. Much will depend on who we are able to hire. If the new hire is able to keep everyone, upgrade the recruits and coach, I'm all for it. And I do have enough confidence in Coyle to believe that he will not make a change unless he believes he can get someone who is likely to accomplish those things.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Mark Few would not finish behind Wisconsin all 7 years. Your just cherry picking a one and done tourney. Few is a big time winner. Just my opinion but i would not put Pitino in the Few comparison. So you want to wait how many years ?

Some GHers consider him too old...

 

[KillmeNow]

This has to be a bit... right?

No, it's not a bit. Before the 2015 season, the vast majority of the cbb FANS I conversed with did not consider Gonzaga a legit cbb power. And I wouldn't be surprised if I conversed with TEN TIMES as many cbb fans, maybe 100 times more than the average GH poster, as the vast majority of you all come here and no where else. Every cbb forum I've ever frequented I was usually the one and only Gopher fan on the site, or the only regular as there was sometimes an occasional Gopher fan that would pop in once in awhile, but rarely on a consistent basis. I'd have to come into the GH here to see what Gopher fans were thinking occasionally, but for the most part preferred talking to non-Gopher fans. And there was about as many Gonzaga fans as Gopher fans as well. And those Gonzaga fans were always confident in their team, and caught a lot of flack from other fans. People consistently poked fun of Gonzaga's strength of schedule and expressed doubt in their ability to advance deep in the NCAA tourney. The opinion was regularly expressed that their playing and beating only creampuffs wasn't the best way for teams to prepare for the NCAA tourney.

Am I dissing Mark Few? Not at all. Just pointing out that it took time for him to do whatever he needed to get to the point where his teams could succeed in the NCAA tourney.

I bet if you look at the average recruiting rankings for Gonzaga over the years, I bet that you'd find that they steadily improved over time. Oh, a quick look shows me that is EXACTLY what has happened.

From 2003 to 2010, Gonzaga had 5 recruiting classes from #137-#233, including the last 3 of that period and only twice did Gonzaga lead the WCC in recruiting, so this may show that Few was an incredible coach as his conf competition was out recruiting him yet he was winning the majority of the Conf titles. But when you get outside of the WCC conf and start playing P5/6 conf teams who finished well enough to get into the NCAA tourney, you are dealing with programs who consistently are bringing in recruiting classes within the Top 50 for the most part.

When teams like Gonzaga have good seasons, how often are they chock full of Jrs & Srs? Gonzaga went to the S16 in 2009, and after 2010 graduated lost 5 players, and the 2011 class who had that 2009 run fresh in their minds, was it's largest class in the 247 era up to that point of 5 players, was probably the players most responsible for getting them to the Elite 8 finally, for the first time in 16 years. And that class was also ranked #28 in the country that year. After 3 straight classes #233, #155 & #137 that finally got out of the way and moved on, Few finally got a great class in, and followed that up with a class of 4 players ranked #45 in 2014, so a team with some really good Upper Classmen leadership combined with some good younger talent was then able to finally compete with teams outside of the WCC.

And then following that Elite 8 appearance Few was able to pull in his most highly rated class EVER, to that point, the 20th ranked class of 2016 and it was a big class as well, being just the 2nd time in the 247 era that he got in 5 players. So now you have the 4 from the #45 2014 class and the 5 from the 2016 class that were the players that got them to the Final Four.


So it was GOOD PLAYERS that brought Few success against non-WCC opponents in the NCAA tourney.


So 2 yrs after his 28th ranked class of 2004, they went to the Sweet 16.
So 2 yrs after his 26th ranked class of 2007, they went to the Sweet 16.

But classes ranked #156 and #144 in 2003 & 2005 probably didn't help Few sustain high level success. And classes ranked #233, #155 & #137 in 08, 09 & 2010 probably contributed to the 5 year gap between the 2009 Sweet 16 trip and the 2015 trip to the Elite 8.



So I've never said Few was a bad coach. But even a good coach needs good players to succeed against the really good teams out there. And those good teams are not in the WCC, they are the teams that Gonzaga was losing to on the first weekend in the NCAA tourney.


So it took TIME for Few to be able to figure out how to get better bb players into his program, players that had the talent to go up against non-WCC opponents



Consider this, look at the diff between these two 8 yr recruiting periods & the last 7 yr period

2003-2010 = 156-28-144-33-26-233-155-137 - only 3 classes better than 137. 3 over 155, 1 of 233.
2011-2018 = 28-n/a-149-45-112-20-120-69 -- only 4 classes worse than 69. Zero over 150, 1 of 20.
2013-2020 = 45-112-20-120-69-13-8 --------- only 2 classes worse than 69. Zero over 120, 1 of 8.

And the #120 ranked class of 2017 was only 1 player. The #69 ranked class of 2019 was only 2 players



So like I've said before, I'm not saying Few is a bad coach. He's possibly a GREAT coach? But he let himself stay in the WCC, where it is hard to recruit to, which is honorable and something to be respected. I love what he's done with Gonzaga, I'm in no way an anti-fan of Few or Gonzaga. And why did Gonzaga stick with Few over that 13 year period that he struggled in the NCAA tourney? Well, probably because of what many of you have said that what he's accomplished is something Gonzaga had never seen before that, so of course they are going to stick with him. And good for them, and good for him.


Back when we hired Pitino, I was against it, he NEVER should have been hired in the first place. I was one of the guys who wanted Flip Saunders to be hired. Probably would have been the better hire even in spite of Flips untimely death, RIP Flip, because his first recruiting class would have surely been a better one, leaving a better foundation for whoever we got to replace him. And maybe Flip's replacement would have been far more qualified than Pitino? But it was Pitino's 2nd and 3rd classes that showed so much promise/potential, and a little better luck would have probably resulted in a better class than the IW/JH class as well. But hey, it is what it is.


I'm not trying to make a case that Few sucks as a coach, but just that Few had less competition to compete with and against in the WCC, so as a good coach, even with a lack of talented players, he was able to win lots of WCC conf titles and/or was able to win enough games to get into the NCAA tourney with or without winning the conf tournament. But none of that takes away from the FACT that Gonzaga may have gotten overrated on many occasions, which is what the vast majority of the cbb fans I knew and conversed with over the 10 years from around 2004 or 2005 to 2014, also thought about Gonzaga, that they played creampuffs and hence got overrated and hence were not a good team to bet on winning in the NCAA tourney.

But as I've shown, he stuck with Gonzaga and they stuck with him, and over time he was able to improve the quality of the recruits he was able to bring into the program and eventually enough of them got onto the same roster and worked well enough together to finally beat some good teams in the NCAA tourney. And ever since that trip to the Elite 8, all 5 of his recruiting classes were either rated very high or were just one player.


Now it would be a good bet to bet on Gonzaga to get at least to the Sweet 16, but they still have to get back to the Final Four before he/it, can be seen as more than a one hit wonder. But with back to back Top 15 ranked recruiting classes, and that #20 ranked class of 5 players all still on the 2020 roster, for the most part(unless they went to the NBA?), my guess is they might do it this year or one of the next 2 seasons?




Now look at Pitino's recruiting and compare it to the rest of the B1G.

The 3 years prior to his showing up, Gopher recruiting classes were #54, #75 & #91. So not a single class in the Top 50.

His first class was #64, but contained some misses, for sure, that hurt him for his first 4-5 years.
His 2nd class was #34, but contained some misses, not as much his fault this time around.
His 3rd class was #30, but out of the 3 players he only got 2-3 serviceable seasons out of them. Curry's been injured his whole career basically, cept his frosh season, and Coffey left after 2, Hurt hasn't contributed anything really. How much of this is Pitino's fault?
His 4th class dropped to #71, and both players are gone now. So this was a big misstep, esp when competing in the B1G.
His 5th class was #45 and still has a lot of potential, esp if Dan returns.
His 6th class was #37 and also still has a lot of potential. 4th best in the B1G.
His 7th class was/is #48, so 3 straight Top 50 rated classes.

With a Top 100 player already onboard for 2021, it could be his best class yet.

Just maybe, with better players, he'll start beating P5/6 quality opponents more often, same as Few did once he got better players onto his teams?


Just saying, if Coyle chooses to stick with Pitino, don't go panicking or anything, it might not be the end of the world?

But if Coyle chooses to move on and give someone else the reigns to the program, I won't complain one bit.

 

[KillmeNow]

So let me get this straight, if Few had been available or willing to move seven years ago when we hired Pitino you would have still hired Richard knowing what you know now? I would take Few many times over where we are now even if he is coming from that conference. Sorry but the national tournament is pretty much a crapshoot every year and lately it’s even getting tougher for the big shots to win. Him having been there so much and even underperforming according to your analysis is laughable. I have generally been a Pitino supporter but it is time for someone else to get a crack at this program

We NEVER should have hired Pitino in the first place. But I just don't think two wrongs make a right, or doing something worse doesn't fix a situation that isn't wonderful.

I'm Ok if Coyle chooses to go in a different direction, but I'm also ok if he chooses to stick with Pitino now that he's been given 7 years and seems to be getting better at the job. With better players, he'll look like a better coach, we know this from the 2 or 2 and a half seasons where he had rosters with more good players. His last 3 recruiting classes have either been better or have the potential to be better than any of his previous classes, and his 2021 class has the potential to be his best yet.

 

[KillmeNow]

Are you saying Pitino is a better coach than Few ? Mark is very highly thought of by every single coach. Your measuring only tourney success by seed in a one and done game. You have to be damn good to get a one seed no matter your conference. The metric show out as tremendously successful. You only need to win two 4 team tournaments to get to a final 4 but it is one bad shooting night and your gone. Mark Few is one of the 10 best or better active coaches. We would trade in a minute.

NO!!! I am NOT saying Pitino is better than Few.

And Few is highly thought of by who? COACHES??? I didn't say "coaches" didn't respect him. I said cbb FANS didn't respect Gonzaga or the WCC or the SOS's of WCC teams. They may have respected Few, maybe even felt he was a good coach, but they didn't respect the conference Gonzaga played in or the strength of schedule of Gonzaga or other teams coming out of little conferences.


But, over the years, Few has not only improved the quality of recruits he brings into Gonzaga, but he also worked hard to toughen up his ooc portion of his schedule, and the combination of those two factors has shown positive results come March. Good for him and good for Gonzaga.

 

[USAF]

No, it's not a bit. Before the 2015 season, the vast majority of the cbb FANS I conversed with did not consider Gonzaga a legit cbb power. And I wouldn't be surprised if I conversed with TEN TIMES as many cbb fans, maybe 100 times more than the average GH poster, as the vast majority of you all come here and no where else. Every cbb forum I've ever frequented I was usually the one and only Gopher fan on the site, or the only regular as there was sometimes an occasional Gopher fan that would pop in once in awhile, but rarely on a consistent basis. I'd have to come into the GH here to see what Gopher fans were thinking occasionally, but for the most part preferred talking to non-Gopher fans. And there was about as many Gonzaga fans as Gopher fans as well. And those Gonzaga fans were always confident in their team, and caught a lot of flack from other fans. People consistently poked fun of Gonzaga's strength of schedule and expressed doubt in their ability to advance deep in the NCAA tourney. The opinion was regularly expressed that their playing and beating only creampuffs wasn't the best way for teams to prepare for the NCAA tourney.

Am I dissing Mark Few? Not at all. Just pointing out that it took time for him to do whatever he needed to get to the point where his teams could succeed in the NCAA tourney.

I bet if you look at the average recruiting rankings for Gonzaga over the years, I bet that you'd find that they steadily improved over time. Oh, a quick look shows me that is EXACTLY what has happened.

From 2003 to 2010, Gonzaga had 5 recruiting classes from #137-#233, including the last 3 of that period and only twice did Gonzaga lead the WCC in recruiting, so this may show that Few was an incredible coach as his conf competition was out recruiting him yet he was winning the majority of the Conf titles. But when you get outside of the WCC conf and start playing P5/6 conf teams who finished well enough to get into the NCAA tourney, you are dealing with programs who consistently are bringing in recruiting classes within the Top 50 for the most part.

When teams like Gonzaga have good seasons, how often are they chock full of Jrs & Srs? Gonzaga went to the S16 in 2009, and after 2010 graduated lost 5 players, and the 2011 class who had that 2009 run fresh in their minds, was it's largest class in the 247 era up to that point of 5 players, was probably the players most responsible for getting them to the Elite 8 finally, for the first time in 16 years. And that class was also ranked #28 in the country that year. After 3 straight classes #233, #155 & #137 that finally got out of the way and moved on, Few finally got a great class in, and followed that up with a class of 4 players ranked #45 in 2014, so a team with some really good Upper Classmen leadership combined with some good younger talent was then able to finally compete with teams outside of the WCC.

And then following that Elite 8 appearance Few was able to pull in his most highly rated class EVER, to that point, the 20th ranked class of 2016 and it was a big class as well, being just the 2nd time in the 247 era that he got in 5 players. So now you have the 4 from the #45 2014 class and the 5 from the 2016 class that were the players that got them to the Final Four.


So it was GOOD PLAYERS that brought Few success against non-WCC opponents in the NCAA tourney.


So 2 yrs after his 28th ranked class of 2004, they went to the Sweet 16.
So 2 yrs after his 26th ranked class of 2007, they went to the Sweet 16.

But classes ranked #156 and #144 in 2003 & 2005 probably didn't help Few sustain high level success. And classes ranked #233, #155 & #137 in 08, 09 & 2010 probably contributed to the 5 year gap between the 2009 Sweet 16 trip and the 2015 trip to the Elite 8.



So I've never said Few was a bad coach. But even a good coach needs good players to succeed against the really good teams out there. And those good teams are not in the WCC, they are the teams that Gonzaga was losing to on the first weekend in the NCAA tourney.


So it took TIME for Few to be able to figure out how to get better bb players into his program, players that had the talent to go up against non-WCC opponents



Consider this, look at the diff between these two 8 yr recruiting periods & the last 7 yr period

2003-2010 = 156-28-144-33-26-233-155-137 - only 3 classes better than 137. 3 over 155, 1 of 233.
2011-2018 = 28-n/a-149-45-112-20-120-69 -- only 4 classes worse than 69. Zero over 150, 1 of 20.
2013-2020 = 45-112-20-120-69-13-8 --------- only 2 classes worse than 69. Zero over 120, 1 of 8.

And the #120 ranked class of 2017 was only 1 player. The #69 ranked class of 2019 was only 2 players



So like I've said before, I'm not saying Few is a bad coach. He's possibly a GREAT coach? But he let himself stay in the WCC, where it is hard to recruit to, which is honorable and something to be respected. I love what he's done with Gonzaga, I'm in no way an anti-fan of Few or Gonzaga. And why did Gonzaga stick with Few over that 13 year period that he struggled in the NCAA tourney? Well, probably because of what many of you have said that what he's accomplished is something Gonzaga had never seen before that, so of course they are going to stick with him. And good for them, and good for him.


Back when we hired Pitino, I was against it, he NEVER should have been hired in the first place. I was one of the guys who wanted Flip Saunders to be hired. Probably would have been the better hire even in spite of Flips untimely death, RIP Flip, because his first recruiting class would have surely been a better one, leaving a better foundation for whoever we got to replace him. And maybe Flip's replacement would have been far more qualified than Pitino? But it was Pitino's 2nd and 3rd classes that showed so much promise/potential, and a little better luck would have probably resulted in a better class than the IW/JH class as well. But hey, it is what it is.


I'm not trying to make a case that Few sucks as a coach, but just that Few had less competition to compete with and against in the WCC, so as a good coach, even with a lack of talented players, he was able to win lots of WCC conf titles and/or was able to win enough games to get into the NCAA tourney with or without winning the conf tournament. But none of that takes away from the FACT that Gonzaga may have gotten overrated on many occasions, which is what the vast majority of the cbb fans I knew and conversed with over the 10 years from around 2004 or 2005 to 2014, also thought about Gonzaga, that they played creampuffs and hence got overrated and hence were not a good team to bet on winning in the NCAA tourney.

But as I've shown, he stuck with Gonzaga and they stuck with him, and over time he was able to improve the quality of the recruits he was able to bring into the program and eventually enough of them got onto the same roster and worked well enough together to finally beat some good teams in the NCAA tourney. And ever since that trip to the Elite 8, all 5 of his recruiting classes were either rated very high or were just one player.


Now it would be a good bet to bet on Gonzaga to get at least to the Sweet 16, but they still have to get back to the Final Four before he/it, can be seen as more than a one hit wonder. But with back to back Top 15 ranked recruiting classes, and that #20 ranked class of 5 players all still on the 2020 roster, for the most part(unless they went to the NBA?), my guess is they might do it this year or one of the next 2 seasons?




Now look at Pitino's recruiting and compare it to the rest of the B1G.

The 3 years prior to his showing up, Gopher recruiting classes were #54, #75 & #91. So not a single class in the Top 50.

His first class was #64, but contained some misses, for sure, that hurt him for his first 4-5 years.
His 2nd class was #34, but contained some misses, not as much his fault this time around.
His 3rd class was #30, but out of the 3 players he only got 2-3 serviceable seasons out of them. Curry's been injured his whole career basically, cept his frosh season, and Coffey left after 2, Hurt hasn't contributed anything really. How much of this is Pitino's fault?
His 4th class dropped to #71, and both players are gone now. So this was a big misstep, esp when competing in the B1G.
His 5th class was #45 and still has a lot of potential, esp if Dan returns.
His 6th class was #37 and also still has a lot of potential. 4th best in the B1G.
His 7th class was/is #48, so 3 straight Top 50 rated classes.

With a Top 100 player already onboard for 2021, it could be his best class yet.

Just maybe, with better players, he'll start beating P5/6 quality opponents more often, same as Few did once he got better players onto his teams?


Just saying, if Coyle chooses to stick with Pitino, don't go panicking or anything, it might not be the end of the world?

But if Coyle chooses to move on and give someone else the reigns to the program, I won't complain one bit.

TL,DR

 

[KillmeNow]

TL,DR

Short version needed? Few's recruits sucked from 2003-2010, at least in comparison to more recent recruits. Few's recruits from 2011-2015 were better. Few's recruits from 2016-2020 have been/are much, much better than the ones from 2003-2010. Results in the NCAA tourney bear this out.

 

[builtbadgers]

Short version needed? Few's recruits sucked from 2003-2010, at least in comparison to more recent recruits. Few's recruits from 2011-2015 were better. Few's recruits from 2016-2020 have been/are much, much better than the ones from 2003-2010. Results in the NCAA tourney bear this out.

How about one NCAA win in 6 years, one winning conference season in 6 years. What happens to good players poorly coached since recruiting is pretty good. we have out recruited UVA several times by your beloved 247 but of course they jack up the guy,jerome hunter class way up after the fact. We have out recruited UW several classes and not once finished ahead of them. Do you think Pitino is better than 8th out of the conference coaches ?

 

[KillmeNow]

How about one NCAA win in 6 years, one winning conference season in 6 years. What happens to good players poorly coached since recruiting is pretty good. we have out recruited UVA several times by your beloved 247 but of course they jack up the guy,jerome hunter class way up after the fact. We have out recruited UW several classes and not once finished ahead of them. Do you think Pitino is better than 8th out of the conference coaches ?

We NEVER should of hired the guy. I am on record here stating who I supported our hiring. I did not give the hire one ounce of support until AFTER it was a done deal. Then I proceeded to support the coach the school chose to hire. I'm not a shill for UW or UVA like you are. I don't like the BORING brand of bb the coaches you adore employ and I'd honestly rather have a team that loses more games than it wins, than to have a coach who wins more games than he loses but that BORES the fans to death. And UVA lost early in the NCAA tourney far more often than they were successful. They finally had a great run, and good for them. Good thing they didn't rashly fire their coach and were patient and waited for him to eventually come through for them. Go figure!

 

[CutDownTheNet]

So instead we should put BLIND FAITH in a new coach???

OK, if we’re going to keep talking about Blind Faith, then let’s all take ten seconds of silence in memory of drummer extraordinaire Ginger Baker, who passed last October. I recommend the movie “Beware of Mr. Baker.”

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.

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OK, now back to the Few vs Pitino debate. Let me summarize where we left off ...

Few has taken his Gonzaga teams to Many NCAA Tournaments but won very Few tournament games. Pitino has taken his Gopher teams to very Few NCAA Tournaments and therefore has also won very Few tournament games. How these points are related, has thus far baffled me. Nevertheless, carry on.

 

[60's Guy]

My guess is Pitino will be fired. It could be a blessing for him. He seems to take parenting seriously. He has enough money to continue his lifestyle.
If he would choose to be a college basketball analyst, I think he’d be at the top the heap in no time at all making similar money to coaching with 15% of the time commitment.

Coyle hires his guy and we finally establish our selves as a basketball power at least to the Musselman, Dutcher, Clem standards without the controversies in a perfect world.

What I am seeing this year is a coach who has no idea how to develop a team with available potential contributors on his roster.

Who has a defined role other than Carr, Oturu and Gabe? A while back Hurt played the best game of his career only to sit out entire games to follow. Pretty close to same scenario for Williams. Ihnen’s mom shows up and he gets to play. Wtf? He should have been playing regular minutes all year long for about 100 reasons. He gets yanked and muttered at each time he comes off the court. Versus Indiana we increased the lead to 9 points with Ihnen’s stint in the game. Took him out and we floundered. Immediately Yanked him later because Carr threw bad pass late in the game.

Freeman could provide defense and rebounding superior to Oturu and Demir. Those two are incapable of defending the post. Greenlee is abused and has no role.

My point is if he has even more players and better players it’ll be worse.

It’s time. He appears to be miserable. Just please hire the right guy, Mr Coyle.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Richard does seem to be beaten down right now, much as I described the fans at the arena the other night. This is different than I've seen him before, at least in the post-game sessions.

I agree there's more talent and depth on this team than is being taken advantage of--even though the roster is unbalanced to be sure. Has he been explicitly asked the question why the bench doesn't play more minutes? He should be, if only to get him to commit that his reserves are either under-talented or underutilized. I mean, it has to be one or the other, and neither is good.

And yes, he'd be a star analyst on TV. Maybe that's his wheelhouse. I do not blame anyone for getting out of the coaching meat grinder and into a more sane profession.

 

[LesBolstad]

We NEVER should of hired the guy. I am on record here stating who I supported our hiring. I did not give the hire one ounce of support until AFTER it was a done deal. Then I proceeded to support the coach the school chose to hire. I'm not a shill for UW or UVA like you are. I don't like the BORING brand of bb the coaches you adore employ and I'd honestly rather have a team that loses more games than it wins, than to have a coach who wins more games than he loses but that BORES the fans to death. And UVA lost early in the NCAA tourney far more often than they were successful. They finally had a great run, and good for them. Good thing they didn't rashly fire their coach and were patient and waited for him to eventually come through for them. Go figure!

You've lost any credibility you had with the boring bb stuff. You really don't know much about the game.

 

[builtbadgers]

Richard does seem to be beaten down right now, much as I described the fans at the arena the other night. This is different than I've seen him before, at least in the post-game sessions.

I agree there's more talent and depth on this team than is being taken advantage of--even though the roster is unbalanced to be sure. Has he been explicitly asked the question why the bench doesn't play more minutes? He should be, if only to get him to commit that his reserves are either under-talented or underutilized. I mean, it has to be one or the other, and neither is good.

And yes, he'd be a star analyst on TV. Maybe that's his wheelhouse. I do not blame anyone for getting out of the coaching meat grinder and into a more sane profession.

He will not make more money broadcasting games than coaching. Besides he would hate the travel away from family where 90% of your time is away from his kids. Coaches are in town with their families way more than broadcasters.

 

[PMWinSTP]

My guess is Pitino will be fired. It could be a blessing for him. He seems to take parenting seriously. He has enough money to continue his lifestyle.
If he would choose to be a college basketball analyst, I think he’d be at the top the heap in no time at all making similar money to coaching with 15% of the time commitment.

Coyle hires his guy and we finally establish our selves as a basketball power at least to the Musselman, Dutcher, Clem standards without the controversies in a perfect world.

What I am seeing this year is a coach who has no idea how to develop a team with available potential contributors on his roster.

Who has a defined role other than Carr, Oturu and Gabe? A while back Hurt played the best game of his career only to sit out entire games to follow. Pretty close to same scenario for Williams. Ihnen’s mom shows up and he gets to play. Wtf? He should have been playing regular minutes all year long for about 100 reasons. He gets yanked and muttered at each time he comes off the court. Versus Indiana we increased the lead to 9 points with Ihnen’s stint in the game. Took him out and we floundered. Immediately Yanked him later because Carr threw bad pass late in the game.

Freeman could provide defense and rebounding superior to Oturu and Demir. Those two are incapable of defending the post. Greenlee is abused and has no role.

My point is if he has even more players and better players it’ll be worse.

It’s time. He appears to be miserable. Just please hire the right guy, Mr Coyle.

I agree that he could become a top TV analyst...has always interviewed well and definitely has the voice and insights. Probably the perfect gig for him.