Idaho HS team quitting because they don’t like the coach

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look, there are good coaches and less-than good coaches.

But in the end, HS sports are an elective activity - no different than band or choir. No one is forcing anyone to go out for sports. at a school I follow, last Fall there were 3 kids who had been Football starters who didn't go out for the team - because "they didn't want to play anymore." 1 of them had been All-District as a JR.

in my experience covering HS sports, there have certainly been issues with parents. but I have seen more coaches forced out or quit due to conflicts with administrators or school board members. granted, some of that may be driven by parents behind the scenes.

it has certainly changed over the years. when I was in HS back in the late 60's and early 70's, the coach was the ultimate authority. what he said, you did or else.
 

His record wasn't great but not the worst I have seen. So what would you do as a parent if say the the coach had been there for 25 seasons and losing record in 22 of them with several seasons of zero wins or 1-2 wins per season? 1 conference titile in those 25 years and no trips to championship games in region? Kids like him in class but becomes a different person when coaching? went through many assistant coaches. The school board says he doesn't have talent to work with but admit he is not part of the solution. Does that teach the kids in school that results don't matter as long as you show up for work? Thats a problem with public schools- as long as your part of union, nless you really screw up you won't be fired no matter how poor of a teacher you are.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
look, there are good coaches and less-than good coaches.

But in the end, HS sports are an elective activity - no different than band or choir. No one is forcing anyone to go out for sports. at a school I follow, last Fall there were 3 kids who had been Football starters who didn't go out for the team - because "they didn't want to play anymore." 1 of them had been All-District as a JR.

in my experience covering HS sports, there have certainly been issues with parents. but I have seen more coaches forced out or quit due to conflicts with administrators or school board members. granted, some of that may be driven by parents behind the scenes.

it has certainly changed over the years. when I was in HS back in the late 60's and early 70's, the coach was the ultimate authority. what he said, you did or else.
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In our school you had to be in choir or band. There are other classes that were not required by state but by school.
 

manny77 said:
His record wasn't great but not the worst I have seen. So what would you do as a parent if say the the coach had been there for 25 seasons and losing record in 22 of them with several seasons of zero wins or 1-2 wins per season? 1 conference titile in those 25 years and no trips to championship games in region? Kids like him in class but becomes a different person when coaching? went through many assistant coaches. The school board says he doesn't have talent to work with but admit he is not part of the solution. Does that teach the kids in school that results don't matter as long as you show up for work? Thats a problem with public schools- as long as your part of union, nless you really screw up you won't be fired no matter how poor of a teacher you are.
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coaching positions do not have the same protection as a tenured teaching position. coaches essentially coach on year-to-year contracts with the school, and can be non-renewed for almost any reason.

I covered a school where the boys' basketball coach was non-renewed. He appealed the decision and a hearing was held, but in the end, the school board took no action. I believe he tried some other legal challenge that went nowhere.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
coaching positions do not have the same protection as a tenured teaching position. coaches essentially coach on year-to-year contracts with the school, and can be non-renewed for almost any reason.

I covered a school where the boys' basketball coach was non-renewed. He appealed the decision and a hearing was held, but in the end, the school board took no action. I believe he tried some other legal challenge that went nowhere.
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So what would you do in a position like I mentioned?
 

it’s not clear if the issues previously had been discussed privately between the captains and the coach. Mature captains would do that. But ultimately the coach makes the in game decisions, such as in the example of to foul or not late in a close game. I agree with a previous posting that the blame is on the players for not defending the three point shot and then losing in overtime. Also what does that teach players who quit on their team and publicly squabble with the high school coach? This does have parent interference written all over it.
 

GophersInIowa said:
And there is good chance there are a few guys that still want to play but it's extremely hard to not go along with the group. I feel back for those guys.
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This is what I'm more concerned about as well. There is about zero chance that this is a universally unanimous decision by every player on the roster. But you can bet the pressure from the very few vocal kids leading the charge to fall in line with them is over the top. Flat out coercion and intimidation and peer pressure to join the movement.
 

CentralGopher said:
Those saying the parents need to teach their kids character never had a sh*tty coach. I should have quit in HS but didn’t because I liked basketball and doing something with friends rather than just going home and doing both.
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My HS basketball coach was one of the biggest idiots I've ever come across, a self-proclaimed "dumb jock" who was a football guy but had to coach the basketball to get the football gig. It never once crossed my mind to quit basketball or quit on my teammates. Not in a million years.

I don't think it's that hard to see that this really has very little to do about the players not really liking the coach or not liking his coaching style; this is about a power play, plain and simple. This is a few select kids (yes, likely driven by parents as well) that decided to see if they could force the hand of the school, and they started by forcing all of their teammates to get on board.

It's a social experiment and a power play by the kids... we'll see if anyone has the chops to be an actual adult in this situation.
 



I would like to congratulate these kids on never being recruited by a college coach again
 

manny77 said:
So what would you do in a position like I mentioned?
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They quit in the middle of the season. They could have honored their commitment and finished the season. No one is calling these kids divas for not wanting to play for the coach, we are ripping on them for quitting in the middle of the year and trying to force the AD to see it their way.

If the coach is so bad that they think it is pointless, they could have not gone out for basketball. They could have transferred to a different school. They could have talked to the AD in the offseason about the situation.

Now keep in mind, it's a great life lesson, the AD can listen to them and not agree with them. You don't always get your way. When you don't get your way, you're forced to make a decision (like an adult). Continue playing basketball even though you don't love the coach, leave the school and play basketball elsewhere, or choose to not play basketball. These kids and their parents are not entitled to have the world form around their opinions. I wouldn't have an issue with any kid or parent that went with any of those options.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
If the coach is so bad that they think it is pointless, they could have not gone out for basketball. They could have transferred to a different school. They could have talked to the AD in the offseason about the situation.
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Swimming. They could have joined the swim team. They didn’t need to transfer to another school. They needn’t have conferred with the AD about the situation. They should have gone out for swimming. Simple! 🤷‍♀️
 




CentralGopher said:
For me it wasn’t about whether or not I had character to stick it out. In reality I was just to plain dumb to quit even though I wouldn’t get more than 30 seconds of game time being down by 40 points. He just rode the starters every single game and didn’t develop depth.
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I got 45 seconds. He was a good coach but a prick.
 

Seany said:
Hey, if they don't want to play for their coach, then they don't need to be on the team. That seems like a pretty simple and logical equation.

The article mentioned that the coach held a practice after his varsity players demanded his dismissal, and not a single member of the varsity bothered to show up, only the JV players did. Again, that presents a pretty straightforward solution to finishing out the season. The JV kids are ready and willing to play, so elevate them to the varsity squad for the last two games and let the entitled varsity kids sit home and pout or do whatever, just don't let the door hit ya...
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I assume there are not enough players to compete, so the games are being cancelled.
 

So, I'm just getting caught up on this story, and the follow up article indicates that the team, all members, are back on with the head coach remaining for their next game which happens to be tonight. Per the reporter, the AD stated, he wasn't sure what changed the kids' minds, but they're back on the team. A few thoughts. . .

* What changed their minds? Obviously this story getting out, along with quotes, and the requisite backlash that the players experienced.

* It seems that this reporter was hired by the paper in late November and from the looks of it, it may be his first job out of college. In his eagerness to report the news, he speaks with high school players, takes their direct quotes, and reports them verbatim. I have to imagine that Idaho prep players from Pocatello are not the savviest types when dealing with media. As mentioned on this board, and certainly elsewhere, they look like idiots, at best, and at worst, every negative descriptor of "kids today" is being ascribed to these kids (which, as pointed out by others on here, probably is being lead by 2-4 most vocal members of the team). The most dumbfounding aspect of this whole story is that the reporter hung HS kids out to dry as he did--just incredibly irresponsible.

* Second most dumbfounding aspect--a bunch of disgruntled kids from a backwater town with a below .500 record and no complaints other than the coaching could be better want to quit and this is a story that garners a writeup in the newspaper? Man, life must be slow out in Idaho and this comes from someone who grew up in a backwater town himself.

* When I was in high school over thirty years ago, a member of the basketball team was suspended for a game for skipping classes or some such nonsense. The game turned out to be a blowout (for our team) and he sat on the bench while everyone else on the squad was put into the game. In the waning moments, the kid's parents made their way from the parent section to the bench, got their child off the bench and stormed out of the gym. He subsequently transferred to the town over and as you might imagine, it was the talk of our little town for some time, particularly when we matched up against the team he transferred to. I can recall this idiocy and bad parenting 30 years later and I can imagine in our little town that is how he continues to be remembered. What an unfortunate way to be remembered at age 50; I hope for these kids, their stupidity is laid to rest well before they reach that age.
 

One thought - IF any of the players on this team had a legitimate chance to play college ball, I suppose you could argue that bad coaching was hurting his chances at a scholarship.

but - if none of the players are going to play college ball, then HS hoops is an extra-curricular activity. If someone quits band, or choir, or the speech team, nobody makes a big deal out of it.

But if someone quits a sports team, it gets publicized.

as a society, we place too much emphasis on sports, and not enough on all of the other activities that are available to young people. playing the lead in the school play can be just as rewarding as playing point guard or quarterback. I know a kid who is a whiz in robotics. he'll probably go on to make a hell of a lot more money than I ever did. (and he is also a state-caliber jumper on the track team....)
 

Cool Hand --

As long as the reporter quoted the kids accurately, he is doing his job. In today's culture, even kids in small towns are media-savvy. if they talk to a reporter, they know they could be quoted in a story.

FWIW - over 40 years ago, I was working for a small town weekly paper. I wrote a feature story interviewing several foreign exchange students. most of it was very fluffy, talking about how they liked living with their host families and taking part in new activities.

except for this one kid from Germany. He said American schools were a joke; that all the kids cared about was sports; and that German students took school much more seriously. basically just trashed the local school. At one point, I actually stopped and asked him "do you really want me to quote you on this?" and he said "yes." So I printed everything he said, and let him take the heat. later, I found out that he was like that all the time and nobody at school liked him.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Cool Hand --

As long as the reporter quoted the kids accurately, he is doing his job. In today's culture, even kids in small towns are media-savvy. if they talk to a reporter, they know they could be quoted in a story.

FWIW - over 40 years ago, I was working for a small town weekly paper. I wrote a feature story interviewing several foreign exchange students. most of it was very fluffy, talking about how they liked living with their host families and taking part in new activities.

except for this one kid from Germany. He said American schools were a joke; that all the kids cared about was sports; and that German students took school much more seriously. basically just trashed the local school. At one point, I actually stopped and asked him "do you really want me to quote you on this?" and he said "yes." So I printed everything he said, and let him take the heat. later, I found out that he was like that all the time and nobody at school liked him.
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Do you know if he now posts on GopherHole? 🤔
 

short ornery norwegian said:
One thought - IF any of the players on this team had a legitimate chance to play college ball, I suppose you could argue that bad coaching was hurting his chances at a scholarship.

but - if none of the players are going to play college ball, then HS hoops is an extra-curricular activity. If someone quits band, or choir, or the speech team, nobody makes a big deal out of it.

But if someone quits a sports team, it gets publicized.

as a society, we place too much emphasis on sports, and not enough on all of the other activities that are available to young people. playing the lead in the school play can be just as rewarding as playing point guard or quarterback. I know a kid who is a whiz in robotics. he'll probably go on to make a hell of a lot more money than I ever did. (and he is also a state-caliber jumper on the track team....)
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In today's landscape, even that's questionable unless a coach is truly teaching them bad fundamentals or something. That doesn't seem to be the case here. More about in-game decisions and game planning. Guys wanting a chance in college will be playing more than just high school games.
 

First off, there is no way this isn't being driven by a couple of high maintenance parents on the team.

But good lord this is high school basketball, the coaches are teachers getting paid a small stipend to devote a ton of hours into coaching the team on the side in addition to their full time jobs as teachers.

I am glad it looks like the AD and coach didn't back down. Let the problem parents pull their kids off the team or take them to a different school and order will be restored. If the AD were to fire the coach over the info published in the story then he/she may as well quit as well because no other teacher is going to step up to coach a team full of malcontents that will mutiny on their coach because they don't like some of the decisions he makes. It would just set a terrible precedent.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
So it's a massive overreaction by people who are calling for the exact same thing that you're calling for? I think you're looking for a fight with people you are agreeing with.
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Nope. You missed the primary point of the post, barrister. I pointed out that a lot of grumpy holier than thou pontificating on the topic was going on, including by you. I followed that with specific suggestions how to` work through the situation. That's how problems get resolved outside of the courtroom.
 

In 5 years all high school sports will be eliminated.
Pay to play at some club level will be the norm.
We can't have this BS in our education system
 

It’s a thankless job to coach. Unlike other sports, 7-8 guys play meaningful minutes in basketball. Hockey and other sports play at least 9 or ten. If I send my kid to camp, he should play a lot is the feeling with parents. I love hoops. My dad was my coach. He benched me half way through my Sr year. He was right. We went 20-2. One game from going to state. It’s going to be hard to find coaches and referees if we keep going like this.
 

Sodaksam said:
It’s a thankless job to coach. Unlike other sports, 7-8 guys play meaningful minutes in basketball. Hockey and other sports play at least 9 or ten. If I send my kid to camp, he should play a lot is the feeling with parents. I love hoops. My dad was my coach. He benched me half way through my Sr year. He was right. We went 20-2. One game from going to state. It’s going to be hard to find coaches and referees if we keep going like this.
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It’s already hard. My son plays lacrosse, our coach stepped down this year with no real reason given. As we searched for a new coach, other assistants in the league who you would think would like to get a head job, wouldn’t even apply. One reason given was they didn’t want to deal with our parents. Keep in mind this is the top team in our league with 4 straight league titles. Now it wasn’t the only reason given but it was one of the reasons. I refereed basketball for many years and thought I would do it on the high school level, but after sitting in the stands and listening to parents at games, and then watching after games when they would a-cost the officials sealed the deal for me to never do it. My brother refs hockey and lacrosse, ref’s a hockey game the other day in a tournament where the 7th and 8th seeds after the round robin play each other and a fight breaks out in the stands between parents of both teams. Both teams of kids stop to watch. How embarassed are the kids to watch mommy and daddy duke it out. Before that they were all over the refs. Witnessed a soccer game where the coach of one of the teams, berated a young referee so badly she was in tears. Do you really think people want to do these jobs when parents can’t sit back back and just watch the game.
 

jamiche said:
Nope. You missed the primary point of the post, barrister. I pointed out that a lot of grumpy holier than thou pontificating on the topic was going on, including by you. I followed that with specific suggestions how to` work through the situation. That's how problems get resolved outside of the courtroom.
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I guess the only thing I don't necessarily agree with is the idea that this could only have happened in today's world/with today's youth.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I guess the only thing I don't necessarily agree with is the idea that this could only have happened in today's world/with today's youth.
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Completely agree. Older folks are perpetually complaining about young people. It's the amnesia of aging. All the grumbling about "just wait until you have to work nine hours a day" and "what's wrong with today's permissive parents" is laughable
 

Outsider said:
It’s already hard. My son plays lacrosse, our coach stepped down this year with no real reason given. As we searched for a new coach, other assistants in the league who you would think would like to get a head job, wouldn’t even apply. One reason given was they didn’t want to deal with our parents. Keep in mind this is the top team in our league with 4 straight league titles. Now it wasn’t the only reason given but it was one of the reasons. I refereed basketball for many years and thought I would do it on the high school level, but after sitting in the stands and listening to parents at games, and then watching after games when they would a-cost the officials sealed the deal for me to never do it. My brother refs hockey and lacrosse, ref’s a hockey game the other day in a tournament where the 7th and 8th seeds after the round robin play each other and a fight breaks out in the stands between parents of both teams. Both teams of kids stop to watch. How embarassed are the kids to watch mommy and daddy duke it out. Before that they were all over the refs. Witnessed a soccer game where the coach of one of the teams, berated a young referee so badly she was in tears. Do you really think people want to do these jobs when parents can’t sit back back and just watch the game.
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I have a friend in his mid sixties who used to ump adult softball league games. He was mostly retired and was just doing it for fun because he loved softball. It wasn't the $25/game or so he was getting paid. He finally had to quit because the complaining was so bad. Every call was questioned. Lots of yelling and screaming by 40 somethings. The fun was gone.
 

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