I wish Minnesota had a mid-major program

KoolAid

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It would be great if the state of Minnesota had a mid-major program. Sure would make the winter go by a little quicker with two teams to follow.

You could probably field a pretty competitive team with Minnesota/Midwest talent.
 

I agree. It seems like every couple of years we here about Mankato State (or Minnesota State) thinking about going DI, but it never happens. Does anyone know if any other big DII programs plan on going DI from Minnesota? Pretty pathetic that each of the Dakotas individually now have more DI programs than we do.
 

That's an interesting point. I think it would be cool, as well. Without another D-I program in the state, I guess that's why I find myself keeping an eye on the likes of NDSU and UND, which is transitioning to D-I and headed for the Big Sky. Like you said, there's certainly plenty enough talent in the Upper Midwest to make up a solid mid-major program.
 


Mankato has the facilites and the boosters (Glen Taylor) to go D1. I would've thought St. Cloud State would be an option before they started to think about cutting there football program
 


Mankato and Winona would both be great options - could easily travel to tons of places in the midwest from those two. You'd think Winona would be a pretty sexy place to go to school for a lot of kids too. They've certainly done a good job recruiting at the DII level.
 

I agree completely their are more than enough talented players that come out of minnesota every year to field a quality mid major team. The three players on Wofford would probably have stayed, Nate Wolters of south dakota state is a stud, Carlson and Bjorklund up at NDSU will be good and so on. I feel that if a team in Minnesota became a D1 it might be St. Thomas. They have a new state of the art athletic facility and have a lot of cash to make the transition possible.
 


>> if a team in Minnesota became a D1 it might be St. Thomas<<

Can you name another college that's made a leap from D-III to D-I?
 



I've been saying for years that at a minimum St. Thomas should be D2. 1) They're too good for the rest of the MIAC, and 2) We need more than 1 D2 program in the metro area. I mean, Cody Schilling only plays here once every 2 years.

But, yeah, I think St. Thomas could go D1. What does Marquette have that St. Thomas doesn't?

Or else UMD. I would think of them 1st before I would think of Mankato. It won't be Winona.

There is no question MN has enough good ballplayers to stock a mid-major.
 

Can you name another college that's made a leap from D-III to D-I?

I can't think of any, but I know Houston Baptist and Seattle both are/will be making the move from NAIA to Division I. I don't know enough about the NAIA to fully judge it, but it seems that could be argued to be just as big, if not bigger, than DIII to DI.
 

No not off the top off my head have I seen a team go from division 3 to division 1 but teams are going from division 1 to division 3 (Centenary and New Orleans). Their is not a huge difference in talent from the upper division 3 teams and the lower division 1 teams. Air Force lost to colorado college D3 then went on the road and beat Wofford. So yea St. Thomas would take a few lumps at first but in the long run they could field a good mid major team.
 

I can't think of any, but I know Houston Baptist and Seattle both are/will be making the move from NAIA to Division I. I don't know enough about the NAIA to fully judge it, but it seems that could be argued to be just as big, if not bigger, than DIII to DI.

NAIA is very similar to DII. Coaches make similar amounts of money and kids receive partial scholarships. Essentially bigger athletic budgets

NAIA football powerhouse University of Sioux Falls will be joining DII and the Northern Sun sometime in the next couple years. Their hope, I believe, is to transition to DI from there.

I don't believe any school would have the resources to jump directly from DIII to DI. If UST wanted to be a high roller, they'd likely have to make a stop in the Northern Sun as well.
 



Their is not a huge difference in talent from the upper division 3 teams and the lower division 1 teams.

Having played D-III football, I can tell you there is a dramatic drop-off in talent level. Now the drop-off in basketball wouldn't be as dramatic, but there is still a wide gap. Plus, every sport has to transition to the next division - you can't have basketball play D-I and football play D-II. What I'm trying to say is you don't want to throw your football players under the bus like that.

Again, UST seems to have some good things going for them, but they'd have to transition slowly. Winona State would have a much easier time transitioning to DI sports.
 

Having played D-III football, I can tell you there is a dramatic drop-off in talent level. Now the drop-off in basketball wouldn't be as dramatic, but there is still a wide gap. Plus, every sport has to transition to the next division - you can't have basketball play D-I and football play D-II. What I'm trying to say is you don't want to throw your football players under the bus like that.

Again, UST seems to have some good things going for them, but they'd have to transition slowly. Winona State would have a much easier time transitioning to DI sports.

The main point I was getting at was that the facilities were in place to make a move up.
 

Last night we did have one, I'm hoping to never see them play again.
 

The main point I was getting at was that the facilities were in place to make a move up.

Very true.

Probably wouldn't have to recruit too far outside of the 494/694 either. It seems like right now, you could put together a roster with kids solely from Hopkins, Benilde and DeLaSalle.

I don't know a lot about Winona State's facilities, but I would personally love that location for a mid-major program. You'd think they'd be able to get kids from WI, IL and IA. Plus it would be a good team to schedule for a number of B10 teams
 

The thing about St. Thomas is they've got more money than Winona, Mankato, St. Cloud and Duluth combined.
 

This comes up quite often. What state school is capable of making the leap? None of them, either because of funding or because of apathy.

In terms of funding, Mankato might be the most logical because of Mssrs. Taylor and Bresnan. However, apathy is rampant for MSU sports. I believe MSU has shuttered its football team at least once, if not twice, in the last fifty years. Despite some more recent success in a watered down DII on the court and on the field, its a horrible sports school.

St Cloud might be a candidate if money weren't an issue. Who's going to foot the bill for a jump when the athletic dept. is already in a deep hole?

UMD might be a mix of MSU and SCSU. Where's the money going to come from and would anybody really care? UMD has had some football success in the same watered down DII, but has not previously been known for sports. Facilities would be a big question mark here, as well.

Can't see Winona coming up with the cash or facilities, and unlike the previously aforementioned, no D-I hockey, which I believe has satiated the DI itch for the above, much like it did for UND when NDSU made the leap.

What people forget about the Dakota schools is that the xDSU's and UxD's are the land grant and flag ship institutions of each state, respectively and had loyal, and sometimes rabid followings even in DII days. Each school garnered statewide interest, even from non-alums, and have healthy alumni followings who chipped in when the moves were made t. I would wager that there is more interest for these schools throughout the states of North and South Dakota than there is for the U in Minnesota. These schools are not former normal schools of only regional interest only and are not a good comparison for MSU or SCSU. Those schools exist in the Dakotas, but they are not the xDSU's and UxD's.

It would be interesting to have another DI school in MN. It won't come from the public schools, however.
 

What I've found moderately interesting:

Minnesota: population 5.2M - 1 D1 football team
Mississippi: population 3.0M - 3 D1 football teams
Alabama: population 4.7M - 4 D1 football teams
Louisiana: population 4.5M - 5 D1 football teams
Ohio: population 11.5M -8 D1 football teams

Three other states with similar populations as Minnesota, and only one D1 team: Wisconsin, Missouri and Massachusetts
 


What I've found moderately interesting:

Minnesota: population 5.2M - 1 D1 football team
Mississippi: population 3.0M - 3 D1 football teams
Alabama: population 4.7M - 4 D1 football teams
Louisiana: population 4.5M - 5 D1 football teams
Ohio: population 11.5M -8 D1 football teams

Two other states with similar populations as Minnesota, and only one D1 team: Wisconsin, Missouri and Massachusetts

The population is concentrated just a little bit when it comes to our state of Minnesota.
 

St. Thomas would be an interesting mid-major for basketball. I don't see it happening though. The school has grown into a somewhat bad fit for the MIAC. The MIAC profile is typically a liberal arts school with 1500 to 3000 students. St. Thomas is bigger than many other D1 basketball schools. Just daydreaming, but it would be fun to see them as a mid-major basketball D1 school. They'd be able to engage a student body that currently somewhat ignores its successful D3 basketball team, and they'd draw from a lot of basketball junkies in the metro area.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think Minnesota is the largeset state (population) with only one D1 basketball school. Almost the same thing in football. I realize Wisconsin only has one D1 football team but there are more D1 basketball programs.
 

Indiana was not included in the similar states in population post earlier. MN population=5.2 million. Indiana=6.2 million. Indiana has ten division one basketball programs. But Indiana has one division one hockey program. MN has five, right? We are the state of hockey, not the state of basketball, a claim which many hoosiers can make.
 

We are the state of hockey. ... according to Minnesotans who follow hockey closely. Yes, up north and heading toward the Iron Range, hockey is huge and is where this state primarily earns its "State of Hockey" tag. But certainly in the metro area and moving south, basketball is every bit as big as hockey, if not bigger, in this state.

I like hockey, it's one of the best spectator sports (TV doesn't do it justice), but the reality is it's a niche sport. Minnesota happens to be one of those states where it has a significant cult of fans.
 

Minnesota has more kids playing youth basketball per capita than almost any state. I don't know if that's true of hockey or not. Minnesota is the state of hockey AND basketball. Winona and Mankato have won 3 national basketball championships (D2) the past few years. Have we won an hockey titles? I mean besides the Gophers in D1 men in (was it ?) 01-02 and the women in 03-04(?).
 

The thing about St. Thomas is they've got more money than Winona, Mankato, St. Cloud and Duluth combined.

Don't tell that to all the underpiad faculty. One of the most readily believed legends in the metro area is the wealth of St. Thomas. It's endowments are lower than virtually all of the rest of the private four year colleges in Minnesota, salaries for teachers are barely above a suburban high school teacher in the metro, and they charge for things that many schools give for "free" because they struggle to make ends meet. Huge capital campaigns make news, but they rarely make institutions wealthy, especially when they are bricks and mortar like most of the UST campaigns are.

It is my understanding that St. Thomas has researched the possibility of moving up in sports and concluded they didn't want the headaches. It will remain D III for a long time. My guess is that there would be an insurrection at the place if they invested in D I sports for sure.
 

What I've found moderately interesting:

Minnesota: population 5.2M - 1 D1 football team
Mississippi: population 3.0M - 3 D1 football teams
Alabama: population 4.7M - 4 D1 football teams
Louisiana: population 4.5M - 5 D1 football teams
Ohio: population 11.5M -8 D1 football teams

Three other states with similar populations as Minnesota, and only one D1 team: Wisconsin, Missouri and Massachusetts

Missouri - Other D-I Schools
SE Mo
Missouri St.
St. Louis
UMKC

Mass. - Other D-I Schools
U Mass
Northeastern
Harvard
Boston U
(Other MAAC and NEC schools also?)

Wisconsin
Marquette
UW-Green Bay
UW-Milwaukee

So, no MN, like WY, HA, have a single D-I program
 

Missouri - Other D-I Schools
SE Mo
Missouri St.
St. Louis
UMKC

Mass. - Other D-I Schools
U Mass
Northeastern
Harvard
Boston U
(Other MAAC and NEC schools also?)

Wisconsin
Marquette
UW-Green Bay
UW-Milwaukee

So, no MN, like WY, HA, have a single D-I program


Exactly. You beat me to it. MN and Wyoming (with a population of 540,000) are the only two states on the mainland with a single D1 school. Hawaii has 1 and Alaska has zero.
 

There is only one big time Div I-AA football program in Massachusetts and thats BC. BU got rid of football in the last ten years so they don't even have a program. Umass just announsed this week they will be making the jump from 1-A to 1-AA in the next few years. In basketball they have at least 7 Div 1 basketball schools that I can think of (I may be missing one or two but I don't think so) and the level of high school basketball in New England is not where it is in Minnesota. (There are prep schools but kids aren't usually connected to the area and get recruited nationally and not locally). It's sad that a Matt Janning and Troy Bell had to play ball out here instead of playing for their hometown fans.
 




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