I like where this nucleus....

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I'm not as down on Tubby as many here, but not a blind follower either. I think at a program like the U we can't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. where we're a top-5 team every year, but rather we're a program that needs to build/develop a roster & win the B1G Championship/make the Elite 8 every 4 years or so.

That said, last year Tubby had us positioned for that run & it didn't work out. We were ranked #15 in the nation, playing very well, should have gotten our combo guard back & been a real force. An Elite-8 team imo. Instead, our QB got hurt, our backup transferred leaving us w/out a PG & we all know the rest. People will argue that Tubby should have somehow kept Devoe here (legalize weed?), or that it's his fault for losing Cobbs (who most Tubby critics hated anyhow), or Royce (never understood how this was anyone's fault but Royce's?) & maybe that's so but Tubby DID have us positioned for a great run. If (and I know a lot of teams could say "what if") we'd have had Royce/Mbakwe/Ralph/Rodney/Walker & Nolen/Devoe/Blake we would have been a threat to beat anyone in college basketball. Instead the wheels came off the wagon & we're just not the type of team that "reloads", so it's back to the drawing board with an eye towards 3-4 years down the line again for that next big run.

That brings us to this season & the purpose of this post. Tubby's got this YOUNG team playing hard, playing together & gaining confidence by hanging close in these tough games. Young teams need to learn how to win & I see this nucleus being damn good as early as next year, but especially in 2 years when I think we'll be Elite-8 good again. Projecting 2 years down the line we'd have Mav (Sr), Dre Hollins (Jr), Chip (Sr), Austin Hollins (Sr), Coleman (Jr), Otto (R-Jr), Mo Walker (Jr-Sr?), EE (R-Jr). That's 2 veteran PG's, 2 veteran SG's, two veteran SF's, a veteran PF & veteran C. The front court looks a little thin but this is a nucleus that can win a lot of ball games imo.

Happy New Year to all...

 

[jamalo]

I'm not as down on Tubby as many here, but not a blind follower either. I think at a program like the U we can't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. where we're a top-5 team every year, but rather we're a program that needs to build/develop a roster & win the B1G Championship/make the Elite 8 every 4 years or so.

That said, last year Tubby had us positioned for that run & it didn't work out. We were ranked #15 in the nation, playing very well, should have gotten our combo guard back & been a real force. An Elite-8 team imo. Instead, our QB got hurt, our backup transferred leaving us w/out a PG & we all know the rest. People will argue that Tubby should have somehow kept Devoe here (legalize weed?), or that it's his fault for losing Cobbs (who most Tubby fans hated anyhow), or Royce (still never understood how this was anyone's fault Royce's?) & maybe that's so but Tubby DID have us positioned for a great run. IF (and I know a lot of teams could say "what if") we'd have had Royce/Mbakwe/Ralph/Rodney/Walker & Nolen/Devoe/Blake we would have been a threat to beat anyone in college basketball. Instead the wheels came off the wagon & we're just not the type of team that "reloads", so it's back to the drawing board with an eye towards 3-4 years down the line again for that next big run.

That brings us to this season & the purpose of this post. Tubby's got this YOUNG team playing hard, playing together & gaining confidence by hanging close in these tough games. Young teams need to learn how to win & I see this nucleus being damn good as early as next year, but especially in 2 years when I think we'll be Elite-8 good again. Projecting 2 years down the line we'd have Mav (Sr), Dre Hollins (Jr), Chip (Sr), Austin Hollins (Sr), Coleman (Jr), Otto (R-Jr), Mo Walker (Jr-Sr?), EE (R-Jr). That's 2 veteran PG's, 2 veteran SG's, two veteran SF's, a veteran PF & veteran C. The front court looks a little thin but this is a nucleus that can win a lot of ball games imo.

Happy New Year to all...

Hanging with Devoe for the New Year? I'm honestly speachless with the players that you mentioned above in the same sentence as Elite 8.

 

[Gold Vision]

Hanging with Devoe for the New Year? I'm honestly speachless with the players that you mentioned above in the same sentence as Elite 8.

Why?

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Hanging with Devoe for the New Year? I'm honestly speachless with the players that you mentioned above in the same sentence as Elite 8.

Didn't those same players just hang with Michigan & Illinois on the road as under-classmen?

 

[jamalo]

Why?

Because there are no stars, but rather all role players. Is this some kind of joke?


Elite Eight:

PG; Mav and Dre
SG: Chip, Austin, Coleman
SF; Otto
PF: Mo
C: EE

 

[Stan]

Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.

 

[station19]

Didn't those same players just hang with Michigan & Illinois on the road as under-classmen?

I don't think hanging with the mich an ill teams we played is worth any praise.

 

[scher215]

Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.

Starting line up:
Mav (sophomore)
Rodney (junior)
Austin (sophomore)
Ralph (senior)
Julien (junior, playing BCS ball for the first time)

Chip (sophomore)
Hollins (freshman)
Oto (freshman)
Elliot (freshman)
Coleman (freshman)
Ingram (junior, playing div 1 ball for the first time)

That's 1 senior, and over half of the roster as underclass men. and only two players who've played more than 2 full seasons of big 10 basketball basketball.

 

[EG#9]

I wrote a long reply but erased it and just decided I'd say that I don't agree that there is much upside for the current roster of players.

 

[scher215]

Because there are no stars, but rather all role players. Is this some kind of joke?


Elite Eight:

PG; Mav and Dre
SG: Chip, Austin, Coleman
SF; Otto
PF: Mo
C: EE

I think Andre could be a star, as well as Austin. Mo as well.

Andre needs to cut down on turnovers. Austin if he can get to where he can create his own shot. And I think Mo will be really effective going forward. He has size, toughness, and great touch around the basket.

 

[BarnBurner]

I'm not as down on Tubby as many here, but not a blind follower either. I think at a program like the U we can't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc. where we're a top-5 team every year, but rather we're a program that needs to build/develop a roster & win the B1G Championship/make the Elite 8 every 4 years or so.
That said, last year Tubby had us positioned for that run & it didn't work out. We were ranked #15 in the nation, playing very well, should have gotten our combo guard back & been a real force. An Elite-8 team imo. Instead, our QB got hurt, our backup transferred leaving us w/out a PG & we all know the rest. People will argue that Tubby should have somehow kept Devoe here (legalize weed?), or that it's his fault for losing Cobbs (who most Tubby fans hated anyhow), or Royce (still never understood how this was anyone's fault Royce's?) & maybe that's so but Tubby DID have us positioned for a great run. IF (and I know a lot of teams could say "what if") we'd have had Royce/Mbakwe/Ralph/Rodney/Walker & Nolen/Devoe/Blake we would have been a threat to beat anyone in college basketball. Instead the wheels came off the wagon & we're just not the type of team that "reloads", so it's back to the drawing board with an eye towards 3-4 years down the line again for that next big run.That brings us to this season & the purpose of this post. Tubby's got this YOUNG team playing hard, playing together & gaining confidence by hanging close in these tough games. Young teams need to learn how to win & I see this nucleus being damn good as early as next year, but especially in 2 years when I think we'll be Elite-8 good again. Projecting 2 years down the line we'd have Mav (Sr), Dre Hollins (Jr), Chip (Sr), Austin Hollins (Sr), Coleman (Jr), Otto (R-Jr), Mo Walker (Jr-Sr?), EE (R-Jr). That's 2 veteran PG's, 2 veteran SG's, two veteran SF's, a veteran PF & veteran C. The front court looks a little thin but this is a nucleus that can win a lot of ball games imo.

Happy New Year to all...

So, Minnesota Basketball cant be expected to be in contention for the conference title more than every 4 years? Why is this the prevailing attitude?

How can Marquette, for example, be as highly ranked and finish as well as they do for the past 5-7 years while playing in the Big East, a conference that is/has been tough as nails? There are other teams in the same general area as Marq.

With a coach of Smith's stature and pay grade, in year 5, this should not be the status of the program. It should not be the expectations of the program.

Does Wisconsin think they can win the conf every 3-4 years? I dont think so. Different expectations from fans and administration.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.

I don't think we'll be any worse next year without Ralph or Rodney. Give me EE & Mo next year, I think it's an upgrade.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I think Andre could be a star, as well as Austin. Mo as well.

Andre needs to cut down on turnovers. Austin if he can get to where he can create his own shot. And I think Mo will be really effective going forward. He has size, toughness, and great touch around the basket.

I think EE will be all B1G & play in the league. I also think Coleman will be a very good player.

 

[scher215]

So, Minnesota Basketball cant be expected to be in contention for the conference title more than every 4 years? Why is this the prevailing attitude?

There is a pretty long list why not. Facilities for recruiting are a big one, IMO. When you recruit 4-year players, which Tubby does, they don't usually fully contribute until their junior year. Right now, due to transfers, they have oddly unbalanced classes.

How can Marquette, for example, be as highly ranked and finish as well as they do for the past 5-7 years while playing in the Big East, a conference that is/has been tough as nails? There are other teams in the same general area as Marq.

Most agree the Big10 is better than the Big East this year.

With a coach of Smith's stature and pay grade, in year 5, this should not be the status of the program. It should not be the expectations of the program.

Tubby is the 5th highest paid coach in the Big10, with less facilities than any other school except Northwestern. I'd expect, based solely on pay grade, he should finish around 5th each year. He's been averaging a 7th place finish before this season. Based only on pay grade, this should be better.

Does Wisconsin think they can win the conf every 3-4 years? I dont think so. Different expectations from fans and administration.

Fan expectations don't make things reality, I'd be more upset that the administration doesn't put more of a commitment into it. You want 4 and 5 star recruits? Better get the facilities. Fans play a very small role in bringing those recruits in.

 

[howieramone]

No doubt in my mind, EE has an NBA future. He looks just like the big men Dutcher used to bring in on a regular basis. They didn't go one and done. It took until their junior year before they became world beaters.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Why do we keep saying this team is young? Ralph is a senior, Rodney is a junior and may be in his last year, Welch is a junior, etc. Sure Hollins' and Mav are young, but the best players on our team are not young.

But you don't play with just three players. With Mbakwe out, we are young. I looked at the B1G rosters of players who have averaged 10 minutes a game or more. Most ways you look at it, we are young.

The first column is the average number of years played coming into this year (FR=0, SR=3), second is percentage being upperclassmen, third is number of freshman, fourth is number of seniors.

<table border="1">
<tr> <td> Team </td> <td> Average </td> <td> % Upperclassmen </td> <td> FR </td> <td> SR </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> MN </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 30% </td> <td> 4 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> ILL </td> <td> 1.4 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> IA </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 44% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ind </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich </td> <td> 1.5 </td> <td> 38% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich ST </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NE </td> <td> 2.3 </td> <td> 88% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 4 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NW </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ohio ST </td> <td> 1.1 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Penn ST </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 3 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Pur </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> WI </td> <td> 2.0 </td> <td> 71% </td> <td> 0 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
</table>


Interesting to look at in my opinion. We're the only team to have four freshmen average 10+ minutes a game. There's only one team with three (Penn St.). Everyone else is two or less. Wisconsin doesn't have any.

Edit: sorry, don't know why the post is kinda messed up

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Starting line up:
Mav (sophomore)
Rodney (junior)
Austin (sophomore)
Ralph (senior)
Julien (junior, playing BCS ball for the first time)

Chip (sophomore)
Hollins (freshman)
Oto (freshman)
Elliot (freshman)
Coleman (freshman)
Ingram (junior, playing div 1 ball for the first time)

That's 1 senior, and over half of the roster as underclass men. and only two players who've played more than 2 full seasons of big 10 basketball basketball.

7 of our top 10 are underclassmen. I have no expectations for this season other than for them to play hard, bond & mature together. If we don't see a Sweet-16 out of this current group of underclassmen though next season or the season after, then I might be on board for a coaching change.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

But you don't play with just three players. With Mbakwe out, we are young. I looked at the B1G rosters of players who have averaged 10 minutes a game or more. Most ways you look at it, we are young.

The first column is the average number of years played coming into this year (FR=0, SR=3), second is percentage being upperclassmen, third is number of freshman, fourth is number of seniors.

<table border="1">
<tr> <td> Team </td> <td> Average </td> <td> % Upperclassmen </td> <td> FR </td> <td> SR </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> MN </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 30% </td> <td> 4 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> ILL </td> <td> 1.4 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> IA </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 44% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ind </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich </td> <td> 1.5 </td> <td> 38% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Mich ST </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NE </td> <td> 2.3 </td> <td> 88% </td> <td> 1 </td> <td> 4 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> NW </td> <td> 1.8 </td> <td> 67% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Ohio ST </td> <td> 1.1 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Penn ST </td> <td> 1.0 </td> <td> 22% </td> <td> 3 </td> <td> 1 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> Pur </td> <td> 1.6 </td> <td> 50% </td> <td> 2 </td> <td> 3 </td> </tr>
<tr> <td> WI </td> <td> 2.0 </td> <td> 71% </td> <td> 0 </td> <td> 2 </td> </tr>
</table>


Interesting to look at in my opinion. We're the only team to have four freshmen average 10+ minutes a game. There's only one team with three (Penn St.). Everyone else is two or less. Wisconsin doesn't have any.

Edit: sorry, don't know why the post is kinda messed up

A picture's worth a thousands words.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

No doubt in my mind, EE has an NBA future. He looks just like the big men Dutcher used to bring in on a regular basis. They didn't go one and done. It took until their junior year before they became world beaters.

100%. Read my mind. I'm old enough to remember Randy Brewer, Jim Peterson & some of those Dutcher bigs. That's exactly who he reminds me of & those types of bodies need a few years to develop. By the time he's a 23 year old Sr, he'll be a monster. I like that he's already got a solid hook shot. A coordinated, 7 footer with a dependable hook shot, should have a nice NBA career.

 

[zambam]

Some people on here are just unwilling to accept that there are players n his team that can develop into stars. Austin has shown vast improvement IMO from last year, I can't wait to watch him next year! EE I think will develop into a double double guy, and I'm excited to watch him play with Mo. Dre is an enigma for me. If the Gophers actually become fast paced he would be a terrific point, if they don't I'm not sure.

 

[howieramone]

Next year anyone who shows up to play against EE and Mo better have their game face on.

 

[underground629]

I wish that were true

I don't think we'll be any worse next year without Ralph or Rodney. Give me EE & Mo next year, I think it's an upgrade.

 

[BarnBurner]

There is a pretty long list why not. Facilities for recruiting are a big one, IMO. When you recruit 4-year players, which Tubby does, they don't usually fully contribute until their junior year. Right now, due to transfers, they have oddly unbalanced classes.



Most agree the Big10 is better than the Big East this year.



Tubby is the 5th highest paid coach in the Big10, with less facilities than any other school except Northwestern. I'd expect, based solely on pay grade, he should finish around 5th each year. He's been averaging a 7th place finish before this season. Based only on pay grade, this should be better.

Fan expectations don't make things reality, I'd be more upset that the administration doesn't put more of a commitment into it. You want 4 and 5 star recruits? Better get the facilities. Fans play a very small role in bringing those recruits in.

Lots of excuses, short on results. That is my point.

Big East is pretty damn good this year, as well. However - the example was the lat 5-7 years.

 

[Gold Vision]

Because there are no stars, but rather all role players. Is this some kind of joke?


Elite Eight:

PG; Mav and Dre
SG: Chip, Austin, Coleman
SF; Otto
PF: Mo
C: EE

He was talking about last year's team with a full roster. Not this year.

 

[BigGopherFan]

Next year this, next year that. That sounds about right for GopherHole.

 

[zambam]

Next year this, next year that. That sounds about right for GopherHole.

Not everyone likes being doom and gloom. Gotta find a positive when things don't live up to your expectations.

 

[ccgophfan]

... and still no shooters or ball handlers, but I hope you are right in your thinking.

 

[BigGopherFan]

Not everyone likes being doom and gloom. Gotta find a positive when things don't live up to your expectations.

It's like that permanent sign I saw outside a small town bar in Wisconsin: "Free Beer Tomorrow"

 

[ghnewbie]

So, Minnesota Basketball cant be expected to be in contention for the conference title more than every 4 years? Why is this the prevailing attitude?

How can Marquette, for example, be as highly ranked and finish as well as they do for the past 5-7 years while playing in the Big East, a conference that is/has been tough as nails? There are other teams in the same general area as Marq.

With a coach of Smith's stature and pay grade, in year 5, this should not be the status of the program. It should not be the expectations of the program.

Does Wisconsin think they can win the conf every 3-4 years? I dont think so. Different expectations from fans and administration.

+1. Some of us that care deeply for Gopher basketball don't understand the willingness to accept such low expectations. If we express concern or criticism it's because we hope for so much more. And we remember when the Gophers we're positioned to at least contend for top-five B!G status and a plus .500 B1G record. Is that too much to ask, particularly from a coach pulling down a top-end paycheck? For Tubby, unfortunately, it appears to be a pretty high bar. Hasn't done it yet after four years. The Tubby apologists will continue with their excuses, but those excuses have grown pretty thin by now.

 

[zambam]

+1. Some of us that care deeply for Gopher basketball don't understand the willingness to accept such low expectations. If we express concern or criticism it's because we hope for so much more. And we remember when the Gophers we're positioned to at least contend for top-five B!G status and a plus .500 B1G record. Is that too much to ask, particularly from a coach pulling down a top-end paycheck? For Tubby, unfortunately, it appears to be a pretty high bar. Hasn't done it yet after four years. The Tubby apologists will continue with their excuses, but those excuses have grown pretty thin by now.

I don't think anyone here WANTS to have low expectations for this team. They are just realistic.