I have read a lot of comments Brew vs Mason

Donate To GopherHole
L

lakesgopher

Active member
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,886
Reaction score
0
Points
36
I have read so many comments about how "Mason was able to coach up his talent" something some of you believe Brewster is unable to do. Well here are a few things to remember when thinking of old Glen mason:

Overall Record of 64-57

Big Ten Record of 33-47 (went 2-8 vs Wisky, 3-6 vs Iowa, 6-18 vs the big three in Mich, OSU, and Penn st-only beat Mich and OSU once a piece!)

Non Conf Record 29-5 (This record is crazy to me because it means 45% of Mason's wins were Non Conf. So for him to be able to be this guy "who coaches talent so well" beat inferior opponents year after year, while bing killed by nearly everyone in the Big Ten.

Now I do realize Michigan and Ohio St both were at their peaks during that time. But Penn St was pretty mediocre for a majority of Glen Masons run at Minny with the exception of the greatest upset that I can remember(PSU went 26-27 from 2000-2004).

I guess my point here is, if Mason was able to coach his average talent, shouldn't we have done better against Big ten competition? I guess I respect the approach Brewster has with getting at least one very good team on the Non Conf schedule! Say what you want about Cal, but Nationally everyone of the "experts" were thinking Cal was the best team in the Pac 10. It didnt turn out but when they beat us, they were a top 10 team!

I believe strongly, that Mason's kids who were left over for Brew were very very average! If Mason would have been there in 07 I would assume we would have had more then one win. But new coaches, new philosophies, handicap a program right away. And Brew needs to pick one and stick to it. Keep the coordinators around and keep recruiting. As a Gopher fan I feel we have a vision and we are going in the right direction to do something positive. Say what you will about his season, but we are right where many expected us to be!
 

Mason was Bad Brewster is a Worse Coach

At least mason was competitive in the trophy games like iowa. Brewster has not even been close in any trophy game.
 





gopher1956 said:
At least mason was competitive in the trophy games like iowa. Brewster has not even been close in any trophy game.
Click to expand...

please list the games were mason beat iowa and then list iowas record that year

mace beat iowa one year when iowa was 1-10....way to go mace

mason never had a team that would have beaten last years iowa team or this one

use your head people
 

Equals

Mason and Brewster handle their head coaching duties entirely different. The problem is, the results have been too much the same. When Maturi made the change, I'm hoping it was to win more consistently.
So far, not so good. I'm not ready to boot him out, regardless of what happens Saturday. But, it's getting perilously close to put up or shut up.
 

gopher1956 said:
At least mason was competitive in the trophy games like iowa. Brewster has not even been close in any trophy game.
Click to expand...

ummmm, were you at the last three Wisconsin games?

2007 41-34
2008 35-32
2009 31-28

Also, the Iowa game in 2007 was 21-16.

I think 3-7 point games would be considered competitive in most everyone's world (by the way, Mason got shellacked by Wisconsin 48-12 in 2006 and 52-28 by Iowa in 2005). Iowa in 2008 and Michigan in 2007 & 2008 were the games we haven't been competitive (Penn State this year too if you want to include it - I don't really consider it a "real" trophy game). So basically, we've been competitive in half of the games under Brew. The next step is obviously winning them and he does need to make that step if he wants to continue as coach long term.
 

I was wrong

Gophers where competitive in the trophy games. That helps. Like kissing your sister.
 



gopher1956 said:
At least mason was competitive in the trophy games like iowa. Brewster has not even been close in any trophy game.
Click to expand...

I think you've got the names switched around. Aside from the 55-0 wipeout, Brewster has had a much better showing in trophy games than Mason EVER did. Mason never got within three touchdowns of the weasels in Madison in six tries. Same with the chickens in IC his last three.
 

gopher1956 said:
Gophers where competitive in the trophy games. That helps. Like kissing your sister.
Click to expand...

in the 3 losses @ iowa under mason we lost by an average of 19 points. we only beat the hogeyes 3 times under mason, once we smashed them 49-7 but the other 2 wins were very close

unlike with becky where they pretty much owned us every year under mason
 

Honestly, some here come across as so anxious to trash the Gophers, Vikings, Players, ect., it is as if waiting to pounce on the opportunity. Give the man a few years. Building up the program does take time and obtaining and developing the players to make it happen. I am not necessarily thrilled with everything that has happened, but I can honestly say I have no memory of Mason leading the team to comeback wins or at least to be close by the end.
 

When will people reallize

that the Mason years teams were the equivalent of being Air Force or Navy. We had a very specific/gimmicky offensive scheme that not many teams ran or ever had to defend, and we did it well (AF/Navy triple option). Jujst like those teams, it ended there, we had nothing else. Our defense was always an after-thought since we had all our athletes on the offensive side. You can beat crappy non-conference teams with a scheme/gimick offense like that pretty easily, you'd need some luck to win in the Big Ten.
 



You consider a zone blocking power running game to be a gimmicky offensive scheme?
 

It shouldn't be a "X vs. Y" arguement.

Mason, overall, sucked. Brewster appears to, overall, suck.

The difference: It looks like Brewster has one more year to either prove or disprove the opinions of him.
 

haha, yeah that's about the long and short of it.
 

gopher1956 said:
At least mason was competitive in the trophy games like iowa. Brewster has not even been close in any trophy game.
Click to expand...

Yes, competitive. His best team was down 40-6 at Iowa in 2003. Down 41-3 at Wisconsin in 2006. Down 45-7 in the 3rd quarter at Iowa in 2005. Down 31-7 at the half at Wisconsin in 2004. Down 35-14 at home against Iowa in 2002. Down 28-3 at the half against Iowa in 2001. 21 point loss to Iowa in 2000. 31-0 loss to Iowa in 1997.

Bring back Mase!!!!!
 

As much as it annoys me to see Brew and Mason continue to be compared against each other (read get on with life into this), Mason had a top running game, but still had a mediocre team. IF ANYTHING, the fact he had one of the nations top running games, but yet still was mediocre in results speaks against his coaching ability. How can you have such a powerful running game, but still be relegated to a middle of the road record puffed up by a pathetic non-conference schedule?

Some of the play this year has been disappointing...no doubt, but considering where most were projecting this team to be at the beginning of the year, they have exceeded expectations record wise and bowl wise. Progress has been made.
 

tjgesquire said:
that the Mason years teams were the equivalent of being Air Force or Navy. We had a very specific/gimmicky offensive scheme that not many teams ran or ever had to defend, and we did it well (AF/Navy triple option). Jujst like those teams, it ended there, we had nothing else. Our defense was always an after-thought since we had all our athletes on the offensive side. You can beat crappy non-conference teams with a scheme/gimick offense like that pretty easily, you'd need some luck to win in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

In no way was Mason's scheme "gimmicky." The moderate success Mason did have was due to two things:

1) Outgunning teams in high-scoring shootouts, because nearly any player with any talent whatsoever either started (or was moved to) offense.

2) Going in four-year cycles where you would play the same guys their whole careers, load them up for "big years" (see: 1999 and 2003) and then be lost the next year when you had a bunch of young guys who weren't slowly ramped up to be Big Ten players. We went 6-6 and 7-5 in the years following our most successful seasons in decades.

No matter all the legitimate criticisms you hurl at Mason (and believe me, there are many), there is one thing you can't take away from him: he is a damn good offensive coach. I would kill to have him as the Gophers OC right now. Frankly, I'm shocked that some school hasn't hired him to do just that. Maybe he's not open to such a scenario at his age, but he should realize that's the one thing he's really, really good at.
 

dpodoll68 said:
In no way was Mason's scheme "gimmicky." The moderate success Mason did have was due to two things:

1) Outgunning teams in high-scoring shootouts, because nearly any player with any talent whatsoever either started (or was moved to) offense.

The only shootout I remember Mason winning was the Sun bowl against Oregon. Good game, but other then that, I remember his teams building up early leads then losing the game because his defenses could not stop anyone.

2) Going in four-year cycles where you would play the same guys their whole careers, load them up for "big years" (see: 1999 and 2003) and then be lost the next year when you had a bunch of young guys who weren't slowly ramped up to be Big Ten players. We went 6-6 and 7-5 in the years following our most successful seasons in decades.

No matter all the legitimate criticisms you hurl at Mason (and believe me, there are many), there is one thing you can't take away from him: he is a damn good offensive coach.I would kill to have him as the Gophers OC right now. Frankly, I'm shocked that some school hasn't hired him to do just that. Maybe he's not open to such a scenario at his age, but he should realize that's the one thing he's really, really good at.
Click to expand...

Maybe there is a reason for that?
 

dpodoll68 said:
No matter all the legitimate criticisms you hurl at Mason (and believe me, there are many), there is one thing you can't take away from him: he is a damn good offensive coach.
Click to expand...

Damn good run game coach. If I may remind you, the Glen Mason passing tree:

offensive-backfield-motions-sets-plays.htm_txt_fade.gif
 

calminnfan said:
Some of the play this year has been disappointing...no doubt, but considering where most were projecting this team to be at the beginning of the year, they have exceeded expectations record wise and bowl wise. Progress has been made.
Click to expand...

They lost to an Illinois team that is 1-7 against FBS schools. They beat a mediocre SDSU team by 3 at home. Cal was blatantly overrated. The 112th ranked offense in all of college football. A defense that allowed the offense to convert on third down over 50 percent of the time. Most penalized team in the Big Ten.

Some point to the defense being improved....super! Replace nine starters next year.

Progress?
 


is it a great running game when maroney and barber were both getting to 1,000 yards against non conf foes that were god awful? if i remember correctly that dominate running game mason had slowed once the big ten season started. yes there are examples of our backs eating up mich etc, but we still lost...i grew up in a coaching family, when a team rushes for 200-300 yards, that usually means a victory, why wasnt that the case in minny? i remember multiple times we rushed for a million yards and lost? how is that possible?
 

dpodoll68 said:
In no way was Mason's scheme "gimmicky." The moderate success Mason did have was due to two things:


No matter all the legitimate criticisms you hurl at Mason (and believe me, there are many), there is one thing you can't take away from him: he is a damn good offensive coach. I would kill to have him as the Gophers OC right now. Frankly, I'm shocked that some school hasn't hired him to do just that. Maybe he's not open to such a scenario at his age, but he should realize that's the one thing he's really, really good at.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that ego comes into play as to why he's working for the B10N and not sitting in a booth as an OC right now.
 

The Mason teams put up good passing yardage

GophBen said:
Damn good run game coach. If I may remind you, the Glen Mason passing tree:

offensive-backfield-motions-sets-plays.htm_txt_fade.gif
Click to expand...


almost every year. Take a look at the year end stats. Weber isn't far ahead of Cupito.

The Mason teams put up almost as many passing yards yearly as these Brewster teams with many few passing attempts.

Total yardage run/pass 2003 6,400

passing/ rushing yardage in 2009 3,300 This offense is awful
 

Mason's offense was gimmicky to the extent that the blocking patterns and techniques used by the line were different than what most other teams faced. Our O-linemen were smaller and quicker and that absolutely ate up lesser competition, but against the big boys, the result was rarely different than what we saw against Dunbar's spread. Opposing defenses with better athletes across the front simply would blow it up.

I never saw Mason as an offensive genius and I think the Navy/Air Force Academy comparisons, while not being perfect, are apt to an extent. Mason's passing offense really lacked imagination. I thought Mitch Browning did a good job, but I never could quite figure out Tony Petersen's role. That said, there is no denying that Mason's team could run the ball.

I'm a bit disappointed in this year's Gopher team. The win-loss record is about where I thought it would be, but I have been disappointed by the inconsistency the team has shown more than anything else. It's obvious that we are still working through the transition and I thought we'd be past that by now.

Brewster has a ways to go. I support him and I think the time for Mason to move on had come. I think if you went around to the better high school programs around the state, Mason had next to no support. Brewster has worked hard to re-establish those ties and that should pay off down the road, but Brewster needs to concentrate on the now a little more or he's not going to see the benefits of that hard work.
 

GopherRock said:
I think you've got the names switched around. Aside from the 55-0 wipeout, Brewster has had a much better showing in trophy games than Mason EVER did. Mason never got within three touchdowns of the weasels in Madison in six tries. Same with the chickens in IC his last three.
Click to expand...

When Brewster wins one *THEN* u can make that arguement.........
 

Are you sure about the big boy comment?

that absolutely ate up lesser competition, but against the big boys, the result was rarely different than what we saw against Dunbar's spread. Opposing defenses with better athletes across the front simply would blow it up.

Alabama in 2004 had one one of the better run defenses, and Maroney and Barber shredded them.

Oregon, Michigan, and Wisconsin are other teams that had very sold run defenses that gave up 300 plus yards in rushing to MN.

Minnesota put up huge rushing numbers on many good to great defenses, so the result was very different than that of the wretched Dunbar Spread.

This same offense put up similar passing yardage to our current system as well, but the myth is that the Mason teams could not pass the ball because they were too "unbalanced'.
 

Mason knew how to run an offense, as did Jim Wacker before him.
Regardless of what anyone says, he was able to use that offense to
embarrass even the best rush defenses in the country week in and week out.
Sure he piled up yards against the cupcakes, but he also used that attack to
run all over teams like Michigan/Wisconsin and in bowl games such as Oregon,
Arkansas, and Alabama, who was one of the best rush defenses in the country.
He beat every team in the Big Ten at least once while he was here. He did a
lot of good things....

Unfortunately, there were a lot of bad things too. I think his best defense came
with Jim Wacker's recruits and he never seemed to get the top defensive
recruits that would have made this a Rose Bowl team. If he took recruiting
as seriously as Tim Brewster does, he would have gotten us to at least one
Rose Bowl because we would have had a good enough defense to beat Michigan
and avoid that nightmare. Also, with a good defense we would not have had
all those meltdowns that were just excruciating to watch.

Meanwhile, Tim Brewster comes in and he is like the anti-Glen Mason. He says
all the right things, builds bridges with the high school coaches and recruits
night and day. He finally recruits some kids who look like they will be able to
become good Big Ten caliber defensive players. Unfortunately, the team
continues to make the same stupid mistakes year after year. The penalties have
continued to be a big problem, we go through coordinators in this revolving door
policy and players like Adam Weber are regressing instead of progressing. The
offense looks very confused right now. Tim Brewster is still learning how to
coach right now, even after three years he is still a work in progress.

I have judged his performance this year, and while he was averaging out to
about a B average through the first half, outside of an A he got for the MSU game,
I have rated his coaching very poorly and the team has not gotten better as it should. He could really salvage this season with a victory against Iowa - it would really help the team and the program if they could pull it off. A LOT!!
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom