I Don't Understand Being Upset About KILL Telling The Truth...???

I can live with losing, but I can't live with butt kickings on a weakly basis. It's kills job to take the talent he has and at the very
least make the lads line up correctly. Until JK has 2 or 3 recruiting classes I would like to see the team at the very least
be competitive.

Not to hijack this thread, but has anyone heard how recruiting is going? this kid from Blue earth looks pretty good.
 

I can live with losing, but I can't live with butt kickings on a weakly basis. It's kills job to take the talent he has and at the very
least make the lads line up correctly. Until JK has 2 or 3 recruiting classes I would like to see the team at the very least
be competitive.

Not to hijack this thread, but has anyone heard how recruiting is going? this kid from Blue earth looks pretty good.
There is a thread about recruits.

Kill said it himself, it would get worse before it gets better. Is everyone forgetting that?
 

i actually played college athletics and currently i coach high school ball and i have yet to see a bad team play better when their leader says they arent good enough to do it. not sure where you have seen the negative approach work at? i have coached and witnessed teams that lacked ability but their coaches have made them believe they can play with certain teams and over achieve! obviously kill's approach of telling the team they are slow and not talented has helped them be competitive this season!

hanging out with college football players in a bar is a lot different than working with them day in and day out. cant believe you attempted to use bar time as an example...lol

I don't believe one thing in this post.
 




I would rather he didn't insult the young men he is coaching! There are a lot of ways to say this team needs help, but the never ending "this team is too slow, this team lacks talent etc" is tired! There is nothing wrong with attempting to make the players believe they can win rather then letting them know they aren't good enough.

if kill said that stuff publicly he would be completely ripped apart by fans and the media as being the exact same as brewster. He speaks the truth and thats what i like about him right now
 

So i am trying to figure out if this is a blind Kool-Aid Forum or an exchange of opinion and
ideas. The latter makes this forum much more interesting. It feels like its 2007 all over again.
People who dared to criticize Brewster were jumped on and made out to be idiots.

+10000


It seems to me that whenever there's a disagreement on Gopherhole (which is just about always), there's rarely any meaningful or insightful analysis provided. Instead, people simply make conclusory statements. To bolster their conclusions even more, they cut people down and add forceful language. Intellectual honesty is demonstrated when a person admits that they have no idea whether or not something is true. If you can't understand, discuss and acknowledge all sides of an issue, and do so without attacking another individual, that's a pretty good indicator that you have little-to-no integrity.

In this particular case, most of us have little to no idea what's transpiring in the Gopher football program. Even the statement by Kill regarding the "65 players" they have to monitor for attending class, we have no idea how accurate that is or what that means in terms of grades. Most if not all of us have little to no idea whether Kill is an honest man. Instead, we hear what he says and jump to conclusions that he's an honest, straightforward man. If you're a really honest person, you would say "... we have no idea how honest this man is or how well he assesses things, whether he's a bit of a drama queen or whether he's really conservative in his statements". His demeanor and approach seem to really resonate with many Minnesotans. He comes off as "one of us". Therefore, he must be a great guy. Why don't we just stop trying to judge the man, and simply evaluate what we see? As Coach Kill has said many times, "I hear what you're saying, but I trust what you do".

Speaking of judging, there seems to be a lot of judging of what's on the minds of our players too. In fact, many people on here speak as if they know without a doubt that "these players have no discipline", "these players have given up", "these players haven't bought in", "these players are not very good", "these players haven't had enough reps", and so on and so forth. Well, guess what; if those brilliant folks were honest, they would add "or, perhaps the coaches are confusing the players", "or perhaps the coaches have humiliated the players", "or, perhaps the coaches have done a poor job of teaching", "or, perhaps Kill took the wrong approach with these kids". I don't understand human behavior any more or less than the next guy. But, I find it hard to believe that most of these kids aren't trying as hard as they can, giving it their all, working their butts off. I also find it hard to believe that our players are so unbelievably inferior to players at NDSU or NMSU. I also find it hard to believe they haven't bought in. In fact, I've heard players say just the opposite.

I also find it a little too convenient how so many people on here claim to know that Brewster ran and left a chaotic, undisciplined mess. Most if not all of you have no clue whether Brewster let the players do whatever they wanted or not. "But wait", you say, "I know so-and-so and he told me it was like vacationing at a resort in Brewster's program". So, in your mind that makes it true? Based on what I observed, Brewster was very involved with his players and did demand accountability. Everything else is just inflammatory speculation. Even individuals in the program would give differing accounts of how Brewster ran the program. That's just how life works. I'm sure there are people out there who think you're the greatest guy in the world, and others who think you're the biggest asshole they've ever met. Opinions are meaningless and irrelevant. What matters is how the other person experienced you.

Let's just be honest about what we see. Some people have certainly tried doing that on Gopherhole, but they just get blasted, berated and written off that they don't know what they're talking about. Statements like "you obviously never played college football" simply demonstrate how ignorant and arrogant the statement maker is. Why can't you articulate with intelligent analysis why you feel a certain way, and while you're doing it, admit that this may or may not be the case? Do you think that makes you less of a man?

As an example, many of us on here have noticed that McKnight has demonstrated behavior on the field that is not indicative of a positive, team-oriented player. Some may write it off to "frustration", others may see nothing wrong with his behavior, and others may not even notice what we're talking about. Nonetheless, is it not fair to ask: "has Coach Kill put up with this?" Coach has intimated that he won't stand for that crap. I sort of expected Coach to do something very serious about it. I thought he would bench the kid and tell him his services were no longer wanted. Instead, he kept playing him. To me, it seems like Coach is sending mixed signals on what he truly stands for. Do I know that for sure? Of course not. But it's what I've observed. And that's the key word "OBSERVE". I don't know anything more about it, and I can't make any conclusions. But I can say, "i'm a little surprised at what I've observed". That's all.

We've all observed other incidents on the field that have caused us to ask, "is this a coaching thing or a player thing?" In reality, none of us really know. All we can do is judge the results. Have we seen any progress? Some would say "yes" and others would say "no". Have we regressed? Some would say "yes" and others would say "no". But there's no definitive answer. Just like there's no definitive answer whether only three players on the team are giving it their all, as some have said on here. You can certainly give your observation. But to disparage a player without really knowing what's in a kids mind and heart is absurd. How can you possibly come to that conclusion? To another, it may look like he's trying harder than he ever has.

So, you're probably wondering "what the hell is this guy's point"? My point is, stop judging situations and people. Stop saying Kill is definitely the answer to our program, and stop saying Kill is over his head. We have no clue what's going to happen. Stop saying "Kill is blaming the players" and "Kill is accepting blame". Anyone can say they are taking some of the blame. What does that mean? What are the ramifications of that? Is Kill putting a "Goofer" shirt on himself and walking around campus? Of course not. It means absolutely nothing that he's putting some of the blame on the coaching staff. Is it going to affect his contract? Is it going to reduce the time he's given to turn the program around? Does he have to run extra laps? Does he skip a meal? Does he go without dessert? Do the players play better as a result? Do they try harder because he says it? Those of you who think that because he accepts some of the blame, that makes him a great guy. Let me tell you folks, the fact he has taken some of the blame is not relevant to whether he's going to turn this program around or whether he's a "stand up" guy. Please, stop talking about it. It's inane. All that matters is whether things are getting better, worse, or staying the same. And the honest answer to that is: "we really don't know yet". All we really know is that we're 1-5 and have been destroyed the past two games. Just accept that and leave it at that. You don't need to pretend like you know what the reasons are or what the problems are. Because none of us really know.
 

Breakthegophercurse

I could not agree more. I'm a parent and I have daily interactions with multiple gopher players/staff and I could not make half the definitive assertions that folks routinely make about the status of the program and players.

I consider Tim Brewster a friend and I could not imagine ever sitting down and having a beer with Kill. Outside of the obvious we have nothing in common. Who is the better coach coming in? Hands down Jerry Kill. Who is the best gopher coach? 4 years to early to call.

The beauty in sports is success is measured by W's and L's. Four years later people had enough information to form accurate opinions about Brewster. Did Brew leave little talent? If 2 years from now some of the juniors and seniors are on NFL rosters the answer will be no, there was talent here for Kill, if not........ Either way it won't matter to anyone if Kill does what he has always done, win football games.
 


Buried the lead. Nice rant. Can't say I'm not guilty of many of the points you state. The point that you miss are whether you can read indicators and make a determination from those indicators. And, the answer is yes indicators can be read now and tested over time. Unfortunately, the test is an abysmal record so far. The question is whether this is a strong future indicator or a weak indicator. There are various ways of looking at the facts and there is no consensus with our massive Delphi panel. Kicking somebody in the teeth on GH is neither tradition or welcome, but it does occur and can even be morbidly entertaining. I am on record as changing my support for Kill to a terminate Kill leader. I think Kill is an honest guy who uses methods that have been proven in other areas of life to be poor leader and training methods -- humiliation to be one fine and open example. Other examples have been how he claims in public that the team is slow, undisciplined, etc, which is more humiliation but was directed at the public, an example that the marketing department of the U must have just died to hear. There are times and places for the truth. Jerry Kill is an honest man, but he is a wild card that needs to be reined in. The football program has responsibilities to the students, the public (taxpayers) and to ticket holders to put a well managed product on the field. The reality of Jerry Kill making these statements with the failure to produce even modest improvement on the field that can be measured over time has yet to produce results. The question of merit in waiting for new teams to produce results is much like saying that selecting the wrong head or tail can be remedied with time. The team this year is unique to this year and can not be replicated next year as new players arrive and old players leave. The results of this year can not predict next year, but they can indicate long term issues unrelated to the players. Right now, the head coach has admitted that they needed to be better prepared and perform better after several games. They have admitted underperforming as a staff and Kill has yet to speak about how he will change the coaches performance while continuing to make claims that the team is not performing either. It might be more helpful for fans to hear that Kill will first address what he can control, the coaches. And, pray that raising their performance will affect how the team plays on the field.
 



It's too bad people can't see how they coach in practice!! They are tough, and hard, but they let kids know when they do it right and what they expect. If you talk to players from other systems that he has been at they will tell you he is HONEST and straight forward, no nonsense, and if they had a son with talent they would send him to coach Kill. Most did not really love the man when actually playing for him, but respected him.
 

+10000


It seems to me that whenever there's a disagreement on Gopherhole (which is just about always), there's rarely any meaningful or insightful analysis provided. Instead, people simply make conclusory statements. To bolster their conclusions even more, they cut people down and add forceful language. Intellectual honesty is demonstrated when a person admits that they have no idea whether or not something is true. If you can't understand, discuss and acknowledge all sides of an issue, and do so without attacking another individual, that's a pretty good indicator that you have little-to-no integrity.

In this particular case, most of us have little to no idea what's transpiring in the Gopher football program. Even the statement by Kill regarding the "65 players" they have to monitor for attending class, we have no idea how accurate that is or what that means in terms of grades. Most if not all of us have little to no idea whether Kill is an honest man. Instead, we hear what he says and jump to conclusions that he's an honest, straightforward man. If you're a really honest person, you would say "... we have no idea how honest this man is or how well he assesses things, whether he's a bit of a drama queen or whether he's really conservative in his statements". His demeanor and approach seem to really resonate with many Minnesotans. He comes off as "one of us". Therefore, he must be a great guy. Why don't we just stop trying to judge the man, and simply evaluate what we see? As Coach Kill has said many times, "I hear what you're saying, but I trust what you do".

Speaking of judging, there seems to be a lot of judging of what's on the minds of our players too. In fact, many people on here speak as if they know without a doubt that "these players have no discipline", "these players have given up", "these players haven't bought in", "these players are not very good", "these players haven't had enough reps", and so on and so forth. Well, guess what; if those brilliant folks were honest, they would add "or, perhaps the coaches are confusing the players", "or perhaps the coaches have humiliated the players", "or, perhaps the coaches have done a poor job of teaching", "or, perhaps Kill took the wrong approach with these kids". I don't understand human behavior any more or less than the next guy. But, I find it hard to believe that most of these kids aren't trying as hard as they can, giving it their all, working their butts off. I also find it hard to believe that our players are so unbelievably inferior to players at NDSU or NMSU. I also find it hard to believe they haven't bought in. In fact, I've heard players say just the opposite.

I also find it a little too convenient how so many people on here claim to know that Brewster ran and left a chaotic, undisciplined mess. Most if not all of you have no clue whether Brewster let the players do whatever they wanted or not. "But wait", you say, "I know so-and-so and he told me it was like vacationing at a resort in Brewster's program". So, in your mind that makes it true? Based on what I observed, Brewster was very involved with his players and did demand accountability. Everything else is just inflammatory speculation. Even individuals in the program would give differing accounts of how Brewster ran the program. That's just how life works. I'm sure there are people out there who think you're the greatest guy in the world, and others who think you're the biggest asshole they've ever met. Opinions are meaningless and irrelevant. What matters is how the other person experienced you.

Let's just be honest about what we see. Some people have certainly tried doing that on Gopherhole, but they just get blasted, berated and written off that they don't know what they're talking about. Statements like "you obviously never played college football" simply demonstrate how ignorant and arrogant the statement maker is. Why can't you articulate with intelligent analysis why you feel a certain way, and while you're doing it, admit that this may or may not be the case? Do you think that makes you less of a man?

As an example, many of us on here have noticed that McKnight has demonstrated behavior on the field that is not indicative of a positive, team-oriented player. Some may write it off to "frustration", others may see nothing wrong with his behavior, and others may not even notice what we're talking about. Nonetheless, is it not fair to ask: "has Coach Kill put up with this?" Coach has intimated that he won't stand for that crap. I sort of expected Coach to do something very serious about it. I thought he would bench the kid and tell him his services were no longer wanted. Instead, he kept playing him. To me, it seems like Coach is sending mixed signals on what he truly stands for. Do I know that for sure? Of course not. But it's what I've observed. And that's the key word "OBSERVE". I don't know anything more about it, and I can't make any conclusions. But I can say, "i'm a little surprised at what I've observed". That's all.

We've all observed other incidents on the field that have caused us to ask, "is this a coaching thing or a player thing?" In reality, none of us really know. All we can do is judge the results. Have we seen any progress? Some would say "yes" and others would say "no". Have we regressed? Some would say "yes" and others would say "no". But there's no definitive answer. Just like there's no definitive answer whether only three players on the team are giving it their all, as some have said on here. You can certainly give your observation. But to disparage a player without really knowing what's in a kids mind and heart is absurd. How can you possibly come to that conclusion? To another, it may look like he's trying harder than he ever has.

So, you're probably wondering "what the hell is this guy's point"? My point is, stop judging situations and people. Stop saying Kill is definitely the answer to our program, and stop saying Kill is over his head. We have no clue what's going to happen. Stop saying "Kill is blaming the players" and "Kill is accepting blame". Anyone can say they are taking some of the blame. What does that mean? What are the ramifications of that? Is Kill putting a "Goofer" shirt on himself and walking around campus? Of course not. It means absolutely nothing that he's putting some of the blame on the coaching staff. Is it going to affect his contract? Is it going to reduce the time he's given to turn the program around? Does he have to run extra laps? Does he skip a meal? Does he go without dessert? Do the players play better as a result? Do they try harder because he says it? Those of you who think that because he accepts some of the blame, that makes him a great guy. Let me tell you folks, the fact he has taken some of the blame is not relevant to whether he's going to turn this program around or whether he's a "stand up" guy. Please, stop talking about it. It's inane. All that matters is whether things are getting better, worse, or staying the same. And the honest answer to that is: "we really don't know yet". All we really know is that we're 1-5 and have been destroyed the past two games. Just accept that and leave it at that. You don't need to pretend like you know what the reasons are or what the problems are. Because none of us really know.

Nice job. Way to rational for the internet, but good job none the less. The question then becomes you wrote this at 2:30 am?:eek:
 




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