I Don't Understand Being Upset About KILL Telling The Truth...???

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thailleagle

thailleagle

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Kill has stated numerous problems with the players, their culture & has also blamed himself & his coaches. At least he is letting people know that there is in fact an issue & you could see it on the field since Mason left...

...but I guess you would rather hear about how talented the team is & how tremendous the effort on the field is irregardless of the score???
 

thailleagle said:
...but I guess you would rather hear about how talented the team is & how tremendous the effort on the field is irregardless of the score???
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But seriously. MOST people are just ticked about losing, and losing hard.
 

It's because we're losing. If we were 4-2 or 3-3 people would be eating it up and the naysayers, Reusse, wouldn't breathe word one about. The media is whining and complaining about McNabb being aloof, but Kill's direct and honest approach is also getting criticize.
 

Some people (especially anonymous posters on the GopherHole and the STrib BitchBlogs) just can't handle the truth. :banghead:
 

Because we have won just one game and probably won't win another, could be the reason. He might be telling the truth, certainly, but when you are setting new records for losing, whatever you are saying isn't really that pleasant. And there is still the question of whether this is "the truth" or the second coming of Jim Wacker. Those who claim to know right now are engaged in "faith-based" science. I support the coach, and wish him the best, but we still don't know if this staff has the chops to turn around what is certainly a bad situation. I'd love to see some progress this season in terms of on-field performance. Right now, the coaching staff seems ready to write off the whole schedule and call it "the truth".
 



I would rather he didn't insult the young men he is coaching! There are a lot of ways to say this team needs help, but the never ending "this team is too slow, this team lacks talent etc" is tired! There is nothing wrong with attempting to make the players believe they can win rather then letting them know they aren't good enough.
 

saintpaulguy said:
Because we have won just one game and probably won't win another, could be the reason. He might be telling the truth, certainly, but when you are setting new records for losing, whatever you are saying isn't really that pleasant. And there is still the question of whether this is "the truth" or the second coming of Jim Wacker. Those who claim to know right now are engaged in "faith-based" science. I support the coach, and wish him the best, but we still don't know if this staff has the chops to turn around what is certainly a bad situation. I'd love to see some progress this season in terms of on-field performance. Right now, the coaching staff seems ready to write off the whole schedule and call it "the truth".
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Exactly. Well said.

As for "providing and example" the poster said SEEMS ready, but regardless, I'd say the whole thing about needing 4-plus recruiting classes to change the culture fits that description, as do the many times he's talked about how this team isn't strong enough, old enough, big enough, good enough to compete with B1G competition as signs of calling this season a wash. Again, SIGNS, not proof. No coach would ever say that they've given up on winning any games in a season, but it's not difficult to read between the lines when you see all the freshmen out there.
 

I'm all for providing and answer to why we are loosing, but irregardless, I want to move towards and end to our floundering. If we could just get Brandon Beal back...
 



saintpaulguy said:
. And there is still the question of whether this is "the truth" or the second coming of Jim Wacker. Those who claim to know right now are engaged in "faith-based" science. Right now, the coaching staff seems ready to write off the whole schedule and call it "the truth".
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The second coming of JW was Tim Brewster. W's and L's from this year are what make rebuilding more difficult than building from scratch.
 

I think it all comes down to the way they are losing, they aren't looking at all competitive, even against teams that are perceived as lesser competition. If they were losing but at least looking competitive you'd probably be seeing a lot less criticism.
 


lakesgopher said:
I would rather he didn't insult the young men he is coaching! There are a lot of ways to say this team needs help, but the never ending "this team is too slow, this team lacks talent etc" is tired! There is nothing wrong with attempting to make the players believe they can win rather then letting them know they aren't good enough.
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Having been around college football players (at bars), they are very, very sensitive kids that must be treated gently as to not upset them and hurt their feelings.
 



Maximus said:
Having been around college football players (at bars), they are very, very sensitive kids that must be treated gently as to not upset them and hurt their feelings.
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i actually played college athletics and currently i coach high school ball and i have yet to see a bad team play better when their leader says they arent good enough to do it. not sure where you have seen the negative approach work at? i have coached and witnessed teams that lacked ability but their coaches have made them believe they can play with certain teams and over achieve! obviously kill's approach of telling the team they are slow and not talented has helped them be competitive this season!

hanging out with college football players in a bar is a lot different than working with them day in and day out. cant believe you attempted to use bar time as an example...lol
 


I don't care whether Kill is optimistic or honest or whatever. My concern is the direction this team seems to be taking. Forget the arguably invalid comparison to Horton taking over Brewster's 1-7 team and beating Illinois and Iowa, but the team that lost to Michigan and Purdue looked much worse than the team that lost to USC. If Kill is changing our mentality for the better, I would expect his first game to be his worst and steady (albeit modest) improvement after that. I understand that he has very little to work with, but he has the same thing he had to work with in week 1 and more time to work with it. I still think he is the right guy, I would just like to see him start having his team ready to play at the same level as they played against USC for the remainder of this season.
 

One of my issues with people getting on Kill's case for being honest about the program and the players is that I remember everyone ripping Brewster when he would come out and say how the guys tried their best and blow smoke up our arses after ugly losses. It really seems to me that in this situation (i.e. the team losing badly) no matter what a coach says people are going to b!tch. For me, I would rather have the coach talk honestly about the situation and level with the fans. That is what annoyed my about Brewster, his teams would go out there and look dysfunctional and lose ugly and he is at the press conference talking about how good things are. After awhile I don't want to hear how good things are when they clearly are not. Currently, things are not good and there is no way to hide it. So, instead of Kill trying to convince people that things are ok and it will be the next game that things turn around, he is letting people know this program has a long ways to go before it will be competitive in the B10. I am not saying Kill has no role in the team's current performance, but it is clear that this team is undersized and does not have B10 speed. I would rather hear the truth about the team than a bunch of Brewster BS. Also, all you people that believe that college players need to be coddled like little children, these are men. They are legal adults who are getting paid to play fb (i.e. they receive scholarships for playing fb.) Instead of them getting mad at Kill for talking the truth about the program, they should get made at themselves for playing so poorly and take their anger out against the opposition and win a game.
 

Thanks Redpoo for the assist there. Well said.

Actually, Wacker ball had its entertaining moments. In 93, Wacker lost to Purdue at the dome 59-56. Wacker lost a lot of games, but at least they managed to score some points while doing it. Still a lot of losses, but you did have something to put in a highlight reel.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we have the best players in the B1G. Kill has had few rough losses, and offered that up as one of the reasons. So, what next? Is it really a situation where he thinks the solution is to recruit your way out of the hole? He may have the talent to find the diamonds in the rough to do that, we don't yet know. That would be awesome.

If the plan is to find raw talent and coach them up, shouldn't we see, along the course of this season, some evidence of the teaching talents of this coaching staff? There are a lot of games left, lets see some kind of improvement.

If the plan is to steal top recruits from other programs that are ready to play, well, then we are back to Brewster.
 

Well Kill has turned around two other bad programs, and this is the way he is. Give it time. Its going to take a few years to see the progress.
 

BeerBibleBullets said:
Well Kill has turned around two other bad programs, and this is the way he is. Give it time. Its going to take a few years to see the progress.
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Very true, this is not their first rodeo. Many people think a coach can just walk in and coach them up and win. We have had how many winning seasons in the last 48 years? Kill is telling the truth and is going to fix his way period even if it results in a loss at this point. Remember, build on concrete not sand?
 

saintpaulguy said:
If the plan is to steal top recruits from other programs that are ready to play, well, then we are back to Brewster.
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No we are not. Brewster did not recruit top talent. That is the whole reason we are in this mess. A lot of the reasons people believed Brewster recruited top talent (which he didn't except for his first full class) was he talked a lot of BS about the players he recruited. Turns out they were not that good.
 


saintpaulguy said:
Thanks Redpoo for the assist there. Well said.

Actually, Wacker ball had its entertaining moments. In 93, Wacker lost to Purdue at the dome 59-56. Wacker lost a lot of games, but at least they managed to score some points while doing it. Still a lot of losses, but you did have something to put in a highlight reel.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we have the best players in the B1G. Kill has had few rough losses, and offered that up as one of the reasons. So, what next? Is it really a situation where he thinks the solution is to recruit your way out of the hole? He may have the talent to find the diamonds in the rough to do that, we don't yet know. That would be awesome.

If the plan is to find raw talent and coach them up, shouldn't we see, along the course of this season, some evidence of the teaching talents of this coaching staff? There are a lot of games left, lets see some kind of improvement.

If the plan is to steal top recruits from other programs that are ready to play, well, then we are back to Brewster.
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Wacker beat Purdue in 93 59-56, I was there...
 

RedPoo said:
As for "providing and example"
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<img src = "http://www.blueherald.com/uploads/Buck2/oh_noes.gif"/img>

A typo...on a message board? How unforgivable!

RedPoo said:
Exactly. Well said.

...the poster said SEEMS ready...
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The statement he wrote was "the coaching staff seems ready to write off the whole schedule and call it "the truth"."

I see little difference in stating that the staff "seems" to be; or stating that the staff is effectively in the process of "write[ing] off the whole season". That statement would indicate that the poster has some evidence, either anecdotal or through observation, that the coaching staff is no longer proactively coaching, teaching, or developing the players and game plan. That would be my definition of a staff content to "write off the whole schedule".

It is also a sarcastic statement which insinuates that the coaching staff feels no pressure to perform. Since "the truth" is that they can claim they should be held without fault for the current state of the program.

I read Kill's comments, and the staff's comments differently. My post did not bring into question whether or not the poster had a right to an opinion, but a request for proof to back that opinion.

RedPoo said:
...as signs of calling this season a wash.
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Calling the season a wash and claiming the staff seems content to write off a season are two very different stances. I would lean towards calling the season a wash. Meaning that this is the time to find out what players are capable of playing in the system you intend to bring to the program, as well as determining which players have the heart to compete in your program. You can run very well scripted practices and games plans with your ultimate goal being the development of the players and the system. Writing off a season is just giving up.
 

thailleagle said:
Kill has stated numerous problems with the players, their culture & has also blamed himself & his coaches. At least he is letting people know that there is in fact an issue & you could see it on the field since Mason left...

...but I guess you would rather hear about how talented the team is & how tremendous the effort on the field is irregardless of the score???
Click to expand...

And we saw it on the field when Mason coached and when Wacker coached and when Gutekunst coached and when Salem coached. Sure Brewster was full of hot air, but I didn't see the lack of disciplined play on the field to be that much worse under Brewster than under his predecessors. And Brewster blamed himself for not having his kids prepared any number of times and he never ducked Sid and Mona the day after a tough loss.

My only problem with Kill has less to do with his comments, although if you'd heard the same thing once, you've heard it about five hundred times by now, than with the preponderance of stupid penalties and blown coverages this team still seems to amass. There's no excuse for having Bunders called for being in the backfield three times in one game. None. And that's coaching. There's no excuse for how many holding/blocking in the back penalties we've had this season and I place part of that at the coaches feet as well.

Don't get me wrong, this team is far less physically talented than I thought it was and it's clearly out of sync with what Kill is trying to do, but the failure to witness a more disciplined team can't be placed entirelyat the players' feet.

I'm in Kill's corner and if playing the "poor us" card is part of his schtick, that's all well and good as long as it shows up on the field. I felt the same way about Brewster's bluster, Mason's smugness, Wacker's optimism, and Gutekunst's snoozability. If it shows up in a crisp, well-organized product, I don't care if a guy coaches naked on the sidelines while singing Willie Nelson tunes.
 

Oh 50 pound head...You have problems with every coach. You were probably one of those brewball apologists.

Here is the deal, Coach Kill is here to stay for a hell of a long time. That's a good thing and that's the way it is going to be. His fate rests in his own hands and there is not a damn thing you or reusse or doogieman or any other person can do about it. He is the best we have got. He is the only we have got.

So....you had better start looking kindly at our coach. You had better get used to Coach Kill. You are trying to come off entirely TOO smugly. You certainly could use some optimism. And, you have been SO predictable about about trying to condiscend all over some of the past coaches you have dribbled your condisention all down your pants leg. What a snoozer of a put down of our coach you have presented sleepy head.

Coach Kill is our coach and we are darn lucky to have him as our coach.

Let a little of the air out of your 50 pound head and try to shrink it down to 40 pounds or less.

; 0 )
 

No Wren. I don't have problems with any of them. That's my point. If the product looks good, they could all wear a tutu and have tea parties after practice. Problem is, the product isn't looking good.

I've been in every coach's corner 100% during their tenure, but that doesn't make me blind to what their shortcomings may be.
 

So i am trying to figure out if this is a blind Kool-Aid Forum or an exchange of opinion and
ideas. The latter makes this forum much more interesting. It feels like its 2007 all over again.
People who dared to criticize Brewster were jumped on and made out to be idiots.
 

Johnny Olson said:
So i am trying to figure out if this is a blind Kool-Aid Forum or an exchange of opinion and
ideas. The latter makes this forum much more interesting. It feels like 2007 all over again.
People who dared to criticize Brewster were jumped on and made out to be idiots.
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I don't see anyone calling people who criticize Kill idiots. Instead, people who support Kill are taking issue with people that are throwing in the towel on Kill's tenure only 6 games into the season. The Kill supporters, which includes me, are of the opinion that you need to give him more time than 6 games before you write him off. On the same token, I don't think supporting Kill though these tough times is drinking the Kool-aid, instead it is taking a practical approach to a bad situation. People who thought Kill was going to come in here and take us bowling his first year after losing a four year starter at qb plus o-linemen are drinking something and it isn't Kool-aid.
 

We have a team full of freshman that are skipping classes and are a low rated class and they are starting. Do you think people that we should be winning 3 games right now with this team. Gosh people think we should be there.
 

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