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Tucker32 said:
Dumbest comment ever
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Maybe its because I forgot about George Ackles, their Honorable Mention All American 6th man....

Or perhaps he was thinking about that crappy unathletic center from LSU, and just extrapolated to the rest of the league. What was his name again? I just remember how slow he moved, and how he never seemed to rip down rims. I mean it doesn't matter, he'd be destroyed today by Uber athletic big Jack Wilson.
 

Wally said:
They would pummel any team from 91.

Athletes in every sport at every level are so far ahead of 91 it's not even funny.
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They might make the top ten that year. But then again, they also may not beat Unranked Georgetown.

You have the internet, you can look up the 1991 season.

I'm sure other posters will be willing to share some athletic teams that would likely beat Purdue, that did not even win the NCAA Championship. For instance, 1983 Houston, 1983 Louisville, or 1989 Illinois.

Athleticism isn't new. It also isn't the sufficient condition you're implying.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
No one “knew”, the best we could do was hope he would be a contributor.

Carrington is an elite defender by any measure and is also a good rebounding guard, pulling down almost 4 per game.

I think he is a valuable asset to the team.

So you didn’t have any opinion on Hawkins & Mitchell? They have outperformed my expectations. I’m guessing that is likely for most, if not all, of the posters.




They still gave a chance to finish in the top half as well.

No one knows at this point; I can see Garcia staying and not transferring due to his family, but only time will tell.

Hopefully you’re rooting to be wrong rather right regarding CBJ.
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I think Hawkins has proving to be much better than people have expected. It’s pretty amazing to me that opposing teams don’t find ways to put him on an island in post defense more. Over the course of the season, he’s reduced his amount of crazy playmaking decisions and has become very solid.

Mitchell on average is what we thought he was. He has a few games where you say wow…and then a few games were you say…why is he shooting the damn ball so much. He shoots us in games, and out of games.

Lastly on Carrington, I don’t agree he’s elite on defense. Multiple times a game his defender slips past him for a back door cuts, or he always picks up a shooting foul at precisely the wrong time. He’s a step slow on the elite athletes / offensive players at the college level. It’s fine, I just think he would be more successful at the non-P5 level.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
I think Hawkins has proving to be much better than people have expected. It’s pretty amazing to me that opposing teams don’t find ways to put him on an island in post defense more. Over the course of the season, he’s reduced his amount of crazy playmaking decisions and has become very solid.

Mitchell on average is what we thought he was. He has a few games where you say wow…and then a few games were you say…why is he shooting the damn ball so much. He shoots us in games, and out of games.

Lastly on Carrington, I don’t agree he’s elite on defense. Multiple times a game his defender slips past him for a back door cuts, or he always picks up a shooting foul at precisely the wrong time. He’s a step slow on the elite athletes / offensive players at the college level. It’s fine, I just think he would be more successful at the non-P5 level.
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Carrington looked like money on that 3 😃
 




Gopher_In_NYC said:
And an elite defensive play on the tie up which he snatched out of the air @Wet_Blanket_Guy
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Elite defender? Maybe not. But Carrington is a VERY GOOD defender. Silly that someone would say he doesn't belong on a power conference team. That's someone who doesn't watch the game very closely.....or doesn't understand what they are watching.
 

stocker08 said:
Elite defender? Maybe not. But Carrington is a VERY GOOD defender. Silly that someone would say he doesn't belong on a power conference team. That's someone who doesn't watch the game very closely.....or doesn't understand what they are watching.
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That was an elite defensive play
 



stocker08 said:
Elite defender? Maybe not. But Carrington is a VERY GOOD defender. Silly that someone would say he doesn't belong on a power conference team. That's someone who doesn't watch the game very closely.....or doesn't understand what they are watching.
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One of the BTN guys was raving about his defense in the studio post game.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Carrington knows his role on this team and when he is out there it is to play great D and provide great effort.
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You need glue guys like Fox and him to do the dirty work and relishing their “non-spotlight roles.”

I love this team and their grit
 






Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
He was 1/2, but his sample size is big enough at this point to claim he isn’t a shooter.
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Yeah, he's a career 28% shooter from 3, so not good. Any 3 point shot making is a bonus. I do think he's a plus defender and rebounder for his size. And if he accepts his role can be a valuable piece.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Yeah, he's a career 28% shooter from 3, so not good. Any 3 point shot making is a bonus. I do think he's a plus defender and rebounder for his size. And if he accepts his role can be a valuable piece.
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He has value, but in the next few years, he will be buried on the bench with our guard rotation:
Hawkins, Christie, Asuma, Mitchell, (probably a portal for additional ball handling), - where is Carrington getting minutes? bench SF subbing for Mitchell? I’m just saying his skill set is fairly easily replaceable, and we’d most likely get more consistent shooting…plus better ball handling .
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
He has value, but in the next few years, he will be buried on the bench with our guard rotation:
Hawkins, Christie, Asuma, Mitchell, (probably a portal for additional ball handling), - where is Carrington getting minutes? bench SF subbing for Mitchell? I’m just saying his skill set is fairly easily replaceable, and we’d most likely get more consistent shooting…plus better ball handling .
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I'd say 12-15 minutes a game next year is probably what he's looking at.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
He has value, but in the next few years, he will be buried on the bench with our guard rotation:
Hawkins, Christie, Asuma, Mitchell, (probably a portal for additional ball handling), - where is Carrington getting minutes? bench SF subbing for Mitchell? I’m just saying his skill set is fairly easily replaceable, and we’d most likely get more consistent shooting…plus better ball handling .
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Ridiculous. His defensive ability will get him on the court. Minutes will likely be matchup dependent......but Carrington has been very good at slowing down opposing teams high scoring guards. That alone makes him a valuable player. And that's making the assumption that he's got no room for improvement.....which is a silly argument for a sophomore.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
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So that’s what you look like 🥸

Pro tip Mr. Hoops Expert:

When s plurality of people tell you someone is good at something, Cattington and D, including a subject matter expert, Raphael Davis (2015 B10 D player of the year & PAID B10 Studio analyst the aforementioned “praise singer” ((see posts 97 & 100)), maybe your opinion wasn’t correct, even though you spent “20 years in a gym.” As a junior high coach?

Lastly, as anyone who has played or watched any buckets just a smidgen knows, playing D is hard work and if you’re not offensively gifted, it’s likely your only way to get on the court - I know because that was my role. They’re not easily found or replaced.

Maybe you should graciously take your L and try and learn something 😄?
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
So that’s what you look like 🥸

Pro tip Mr. Hoops Expert:

When s plurality of people tell you someone is good at something, Cattington and D, including a subject matter expert, Raphael Davis (2015 B10 D player of the year & PAID B10 Studio analyst the aforementioned “praise singer” ((see posts 97 & 100)), maybe your opinion wasn’t correct, even though you spent “20 years in a gym.” As a junior high coach?

Lastly, as anyone who has played or watched any buckets just a smidgen knows, playing D is hard work and if you’re not offensively gifted, it’s likely your only way to get on the court - I know because that was my role. They’re not easily found or replaced.

Maybe you should graciously take your L and try and learn something 😄?
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So those multiple people who said that Ben was over his skis on national radio and television, many former NCAA coaches don't count as a plurality...just asking if it's the same definition?

In regards to Carrington's defense...let's actually look at the raw data...

In conference...and I don't count our Non-Conference as it was essentially a D2 schedule...here are the advanced stats (see below image):

DWS
▼ -- Defensive Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to their defense.

1708355860347.png
  • Carrington has a Defensive Win Share of .1 - that is tied for 2nd on the team. I guess you can say he is the best big guard defender, but really he is only slightly better than Christie and Mitchell, according to actual data...not feelings.
  • Based on his 0.1 number, here is how he would rank on other B10 teams:
    • T3rd on Purdue
    • T2 on Illinois
    • T1 on NW
    • T5 on MSU
    • T3 on WI
    • T5 on NEB
    • Best on Iowa
    • T2 on Indiana
    • T8 on Rutgers
    • T7 on Maryland
    • 1st on Penn State
    • T1 on OSU
    • 1st on Michigan


1708356265238.png
Now looking at WS/40▼ -- Win Shares Per 40 Minutes; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 40 minutes (average is approximately .100). *again only within the Conference

  • Carrington's offense and defensive efforts pretty much do very little over the course of the game (per the data) to win. Some interesting takeaways are the results of Fox, his short stints of high energy are a huge boon for the team, and how low Mitchell is...he is true feast or famine. Also, please don't play Ihnen any more...the data is solid at this point.
  • Based on his 0.054 number, here is how he would rank on other B10 teams:
    • 12th on Purdue
    • 10th on Illinois
    • 8th on NW
    • 11th on MSU
    • 11th on WI
    • 12th on NEB
    • 6th on Iowa
    • 6th on Indiana
    • 10th on Rutgers
    • 4th on Maryland
    • 9th on Penn State
    • 9th on OSU
    • 6th on Michigan

I'd argue Win Shares / 40 is more important than a straight Defensive Win Share metric, thus, if you look at the conference only data, Carrington wouldn't even be cracking the lineup on many of these teams (Purdue, Illinois, MSU, WI, NEB, Rutgers, Penn State, NW, & OSU)...let's stop talking about how irreplaceable his skill set is...just stop. He's a good defender...not elite...but his offense is so horrendous it kills what his defense does for the team while he is on the floor...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/minnesota/men/2024.html
 

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Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
So those multiple people who said that Ben was over his skis on national radio and television, many former NCAA coaches don't count as a plurality...just asking if it's the same definition?

In regards to Carrington's defense...let's actually look at the raw data...

In conference...and I don't count our Non-Conference as it was essentially a D2 schedule...here are the advanced stats (see below image):

DWS
▼ -- Defensive Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to their defense.

View attachment 30185
  • Carrington has a Defensive Win Share of .1 - that is tied for 2nd on the team. I guess you can say he is the best big guard defender, but really he is only slightly better than Christie and Mitchell, according to actual data...not feelings.
  • Based on his 0.1 number, here is how he would rank on other B10 teams:
    • T3rd on Purdue
    • T2 on Illinois
    • T1 on NW
    • T5 on MSU
    • T3 on WI
    • T5 on NEB
    • Best on Iowa
    • T2 on Indiana
    • T8 on Rutgers
    • T7 on Maryland
    • 1st on Penn State
    • T1 on OSU
    • 1st on Michigan


View attachment 30187
Now looking at WS/40▼ -- Win Shares Per 40 Minutes; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 40 minutes (average is approximately .100). *again only within the Conference

  • Carrington's offense and defensive efforts pretty much do very little over the course of the game (per the data) to win. Some interesting takeaways are the results of Fox, his short stints of high energy are a huge boon for the team, and how low Mitchell is...he is true feast or famine. Also, please don't play Ihnen any more...the data is solid at this point.
  • Based on his 0.054 number, here is how he would rank on other B10 teams:
    • 12th on Purdue
    • 10th on Illinois
    • 8th on NW
    • 11th on MSU
    • 11th on WI
    • 12th on NEB
    • 6th on Iowa
    • 6th on Indiana
    • 10th on Rutgers
    • 4th on Maryland
    • 9th on Penn State
    • 9th on OSU
    • 6th on Michigan

I'd argue Win Shares / 40 is more important than a straight Defensive Win Share metric, thus, if you look at the conference only data, Carrington wouldn't even be cracking the lineup on many of these teams (Purdue, Illinois, MSU, WI, NEB, Rutgers, Penn State, NW, & OSU)...let's stop talking about how irreplaceable his skill set is...just stop. He's a good defender...not elite...but his offense is so horrendous it kills what his defense does for the team while he is on the floor...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/minnesota/men/2024.html
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Yeah this is getting way to lost in the weeds. Jeremiah Williams has been playing great for Rutgers, he had his worst game for them so far being held to 9 points, most of which came from the line. The coach, broadcasters, fans.....all contribute that poor performance in large part to the defense Carrington played on him when he was on the court.

What happens after this year with BC remains to be seen but for 23-24 he has a role carved out on this team and he is effective when put in there. As long as you balance guys like Fox and Carrington with other offensive options they don't hurt the team when they are out there playing D and providing energy.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
He has value, but in the next few years, he will be buried on the bench with our guard rotation:
Hawkins, Christie, Asuma, Mitchell, (probably a portal for additional ball handling), - where is Carrington getting minutes? bench SF subbing for Mitchell? I’m just saying his skill set is fairly easily replaceable, and we’d most likely get more consistent shooting…plus better ball handling .
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From a non-P5 player, to he has value; no one moves the goal 🥅 posts like Soggy 🤣
 
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It's nice to have Carrington and Mitchell so we can ride Mitchell when he's hot, and play a more steady Carrington when he's not.

Carrington also played a decent amount with Christie on the bench last night.

Would be nice if Mitchell could spell Hawkins a little more at the point - Tough to play Hawkins 40 as we did last night.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
He has value, but in the next few years, he will be buried on the bench with our guard rotation:
Hawkins, Christie, Asuma, Mitchell, (probably a portal for additional ball handling), - where is Carrington getting minutes? bench SF subbing for Mitchell? I’m just saying his skill set is fairly easily replaceable, and we’d most likely get more consistent shooting…plus better ball handling .
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You realize that we play three guards right? He is going to get minutes ahead of JOJ...and he was actually a good shooter in high school.
 

ethomasp31 said:
You realize that we play three guards right? He is going to get minutes ahead of JOJ...and he was actually a good shooter in high school.
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I heard Payne was a good shooter in elementary school. At this point being a good shooter in h.s. doesn’t matter. He is almost through 2 years of college and he is putting up terrible shooting splits.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
So those multiple people who said that Ben was over his skis on national radio and television, many former NCAA coaches don't count as a plurality...just asking if it's the same definition?
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Like Matt Painter and Tom Izzo this season? Or the multiple play by play in game analysts on their broadcasts this season? Or the crew for the B10 studio show this season?

Link? If this is from the previous seasons, as I suspect? If yes, that would mean they were wrong too 👻 🥳 based on our results this season.

Pro Tip: Ben is a Disaster Thread doesn’t count as a source (should I start charging for my tips🤔. I guess I can count this as an alms giving 🤣).


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
In regards to Carrington's defense...let's actually look at the raw data...

In conference...and I don't count our Non-Conference as it was essentially a D2 schedule...
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Goal post 🥅 mover alert 🚨. You likely didn’t include it, as that date might contradict your point, Captain Obvious. That is intellectually dishonest, you’re better than that aren’t you?
This type of baloney might work on Tommies, but not a Piper🥳

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
here are the advanced stats (see below image):

DWS
▼ -- Defensive Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to their defense.

View attachment 30185
  • Carrington has a Defensive Win Share of .1 - that is tied for 2nd on the team. I guess you can say he is the best big guard defender, but really he is only slightly better than Christie and Mitchell, according to actual data...not feelings.
Click to expand...
Thanks for proving my point Soggy.
Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
  • Based on his 0.1 number, here is how he would rank on other B10 teams:
    • T3rd on Purdue
    • T2 on Illinois
    • T1 on NW
    • T5 on MSU
    • T3 on WI
    • T5 on NEB
    • Best on Iowa
    • T2 on Indiana
    • T8 on Rutgers
    • T7 on Maryland
    • 1st on Penn State
    • T1 on OSU
    • 1st on Michigan


View attachment 30187
Now looking at WS/40▼ -- Win Shares Per 40 Minutes; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 40 minutes (average is approximately .100). *again only within the Conference

  • Carrington's offense and defensive efforts pretty much do very little over the course of the game (per the data) to win. Some interesting takeaways are the results of Fox, his short stints of high energy are a huge boon for the team, and how low Mitchell is...he is true feast or famine. Also, please don't play Ihnen any more...the data is solid at this point.
  • Based on his 0.054 number, here is how he would rank on other B10 teams:
    • 12th on Purdue
    • 10th on Illinois
    • 8th on NW
    • 11th on MSU
    • 11th on WI
    • 12th on NEB
    • 6th on Iowa
    • 6th on Indiana
    • 10th on Rutgers
    • 4th on Maryland
    • 9th on Penn State
    • 9th on OSU
    • 6th on Michigan

I'd argue Win Shares / 40 is more important than a straight Defensive Win Share metric, thus, if you look at the conference only data, Carrington wouldn't even be cracking the lineup on many of these teams (Purdue, Illinois, MSU, WI, NEB, Rutgers, Penn State, NW, & OSU)...let's stop talking about how irreplaceable his skill set is...just stop. He's a good defender...not elite...but his offense is so horrendous it kills what his defense does for the team while he is on the floor...
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Goal post 🥅 mover alert 🚨.

I commented on his D, saying that was elite and that he was a good rebounder; I never specifically commented on what his O was. Granted, he may not be “elite”, but he a good defender and rebounder. So I overreached in calling him an elite defender and you, by saying he isn’t a P5 player - we’re both wrong - Yippee 🙌


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/minnesota/men/2024.html
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I’m still trying to figure out how a hoops expert, who’s spent 20 years in gym, and accesses worthless data which he manipulates, could only predict 4-5 wins, in my conference win poll (Pro Tip: you cannot change it🥳).

Oh, I feel better🎊

All tomfoolery aside, I feel sorry for you, as it seems you’d rat be right that Ben is a bad coach, than enjoy an unexpected season if good hoops.

Regardless of what Ben was hired, if he does a good job and we have a good program, sun thst what truly matters.

As my friend Bill once wrote, “All’s well that ends well.”
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
I heard Payne was a good shooter in elementary school. At this point being a good shooter in h.s. doesn’t matter. He is almost through 2 years of college and he is putting up terrible shooting splits.
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Shooting often fluctuates based on confidence. Gabe shot about 23 and 24% his 3rd and 4th years in college. Carrington deserves minutes on this team and on future Gopher teams.
 

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