How would you rank the 14 Big Ten programs?

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SelectionSunday

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I'm ranking on total package, and what they'll look like moving forward. Examples? I have Nebraska moving up because I think Hoiberg likely will thrive in the new "transfer free agency" era, and I think Rutgers is on the come with Pikiell. Another example is I want to put Michigan higher, but I need to see more data on Juwan Howard.

1 Michigan State
2 Ohio State
3 Purdue
4 Wisconsin
5 Michigan
6 Iowa
7 Illinois
8 Maryland
9 Rutgers
10 Indiana
11 Nebraska
12 Minnesota
13 Penn State
14 Northwestern

Thoughts?
 

Good list. I may move Maryland up a few spots. Such a hot basketball recruiting area that getting good players seems to be easy for them. I may move OSU down a spot or two. Is Hoiberg's transfer-heavy roster sustainable? He left ISU before you could see if it was workable long-term or not.
 

I think program wise and what's a better job are different. I'll rank them in tiers for programs as I think it's more fair.

Blue Blood
Michigan State

Tier 1
Ohio State
Maryland- Best chance to be a blue blood if they had a better coach.
Purdue
Wisconsin

Tier 2
Michigan
Indiana
Illinois
Iowa

Tier 3
Minnesota
Rutgers

Bottom
Nebraska
Penn State
Northwestern

Best Jobs (Resources, Opportunity, Recruiting Area, Prestige)
1. Michigan State
2. Maryland
3. Ohio State
4. Michigan
5. Indiana
6. Illinois
7. Purdue
8. Wisconsin
9. Minnesota
10. Iowa
11. Rutgers
12. Nebraska
13. Penn State
14. Northwestern
 

Best Jobs (Resources, Opportunity, Recruiting Area, Prestige)-Stealing this from above.

1 Michigan State
2 Maryland
3 Ohio State

4 Illinois
5 Indiana
6 Purdue

7 Michigan
8 Wisconsin
9 Minnesota
10 Iowa

11 Rutgers
12 Penn State
13 Nebraska
14 Northwestern

You can debate the order within each group.
 

I tried to order within the tiers, but don't feel super strongly.

1. MSU - 'nuff said

2. Ohio State - recruits on the level of MSU but can't reach consistency
3. Purdue - Matt Painter is probably the coach I respect most in B10
4. Wisconsin - so far Greg Gard seems like a step down from Bo. This season was impressive.

5. Michigan - underachieves relative to talent
6. Maryland - could be in the 2nd tier, need to see more tournament success
7. Indiana - former blue blood, also underachieves

8. Iowa - always seem scrappy
9. Minnesota - sad but true IMO
10. Illinois - starting to come back after stinking for most of the last decade. If Dosunmu/Cockburn leave, are they screwed? No idea if they stay or go.

11. Penn State - can they keep building on recent success? crappy way for Stevens to go out. Can they replace him/Watkins? PSU doesn't seem like a place that can just reload.
12. Nebraska - does Fred know what he's doing? B10 is a bigger challenge than Big XII
13. Rutgers - finally turning a corner? Impressed at what they built this year.
14. Northwestern - usually feel like the JV squad
 


Based on overall strength of program in the recent past

1. MSU
2. Michigan
T3. Wisconsin/Purdue
5. Ohio State
6. Maryland
7. Iowa
8. Indiana
9. Minnesota
10. Illinois
11. NW
12. Nebraska
13. Penn State
14. Rutgers
 

Michigan St with Izzo is elite. But, would you as a coach wanna follow him? The climate at MSU is ugly. Investigations never go away there. FB coach quit or get fired? What administrator is leaving next? Lots of talk about athletics in a negative tone from alumni.
Etc etc I think Izzo has all the street cred...if he was gone I could easily see them struggle.
 

60's Guy said:
Michigan St with Izzo is elite. But, would you as a coach wanna follow him? The climate at MSU is ugly. Investigations never go away there. FB coach quit or get fired? What administrator is leaving next? Lots of talk about athletics in a negative tone from alumni.
Etc etc I think Izzo has all the street cred...if he was gone I could easily see them struggle.
Click to expand...

Very solid point. Don't want to follow the legend. You want to be the guy after the guy that follows him lol.
 





manderson1984 said:
Very solid point. Don't want to follow the legend. You want to be the guy after the guy that follows him lol.
Click to expand...

Schools like that get to point it doesn't matter what the climate is. "Too big to fail" if you will. Too much $$$ for the NCAA. See UNC, KU, Duke, KU, Louisivlle.
 

LesBolstad said:
Schools like that get to point it doesn't matter what the climate is. "Too big to fail" if you will. Too much $$$ for the NCAA. See UNC, KU, Duke, KU, Louisivlle.
Click to expand...

See Indiana, UCLA, Syracuse when Boehiem leaves, Georgetown.
 

manderson1984 said:
Yes for him. How about others? Most cases it results in a delusional and irrational fan base and the program takes a step back.
Click to expand...
Those coaches you’re talking about didn’t fail because they were following a legend. They failed because they failed. They just happened to be following a legend.

Do you think Rich Rod failed because he followed Lloyd Carr?
Do you think Mike Davis got fired because he followed Bobby Knight?
Is Matt Painter going to fail because he followed the guy who has the court named after him?
 



Some guy said:
Those coaches you’re talking about didn’t fail because they were following a legend. They failed because they failed. They just happened to be following a legend.

Do you think Rich Rod failed because he followed Lloyd Carr?
Do you think Mike Davis got fired because he followed Bobby Knight?
Is Matt Painter going to fail because he followed the guy who has the court named after him?
Click to expand...

It's a pretty common thought when taking a job in the coaching world imo and have heard it plenty. It's why you don't always see the headliners for those jobs that you'd think. Guys like Matt Painter will be successful anywhere, but some jobs will be harder than others and will have some unreasonable expectations.
 

manderson1984 said:
It's a pretty common thought when taking a job in the coaching world imo and have heard it plenty. It's why you don't always see the headliners for those jobs that you'd think. Guys like Matt Painter will be successful anywhere, but some jobs will be harder than others and will have some unreasonable expectations.
Click to expand...
That’s going to be true at Michigan State whether you replace Izzo or you replace the guy who replaced Izzo.
 


manderson1984 said:
It's a pretty common thought when taking a job in the coaching world imo and have heard it plenty. It's why you don't always see the headliners for those jobs that you'd think. Guys like Matt Painter will be successful anywhere, but some jobs will be harder than others and will have some unreasonable expectations.
Click to expand...

It can happen in other fields, too. About a decade ago, the Head of School at the private school I worked at retired. He had been the HoS for 28 years, and had built the school from a fledgling vision with maybe 75 students to a successful school with 1000 students. Guy was a legend in the school community.

The guy who came in and replaced him clashed a ton with the older loyalists on the board and the faculty. "That's not how Jim did things". That kind of attitude. He was forced out within 3 years.

I'm sure they will get somebody good when Izzo retires, but they will inevitably be compared and judged against Izzo for a long time.
 

Some guy said:
That’s going to be true at Michigan State whether you replace Izzo or you replace the guy who replaced Izzo.
Click to expand...

I think this would be true if all coaches were actually guaranteed 7-10 years to build their own brand, but I doubt it will. Izzo's successor will have different expectations. Some can still make it work, but imo it's harder to follow the legend than being the guy who failed after following the legend. I think it was easier for Jay Wright to follow Lappas vs Massimino as a current example
 




Some guy said:
Yup. And if you get a second one...it really doesn’t matter if they directly follow the first one or if there is a buffer guy in between
Click to expand...

Dude you're right. Whomever the previous coach and level or prestige they had prior has no weight or bearing on how difficult the job is...
 

manderson1984 said:
I think this would be true if all coaches were actually guaranteed 7-10 years to build their own brand, but I doubt it will. Izzo's successor will have different expectations. Some can still make it work, but imo it's harder to follow the legend than being the guy who failed after following the legend. I think it was easier for Jay Wright to follow Lappas vs Massimino as a current example
Click to expand...
Nobody takes 7-10 years if they are great. You see it way before then, before the winning starts.
 

builtbadgers said:
Nobody takes 7-10 years if they are great. You see it way before then, before the winning starts.
Click to expand...

I've obviously have not written or communicated my point correctly. Of course anyone that is an all time great will get it going sooner than that especially now with transfers and fluidity of rosters. That list is small and all I'm saying is that following certain guys can make the job harder.
 

manderson1984 said:
I've obviously have not written or communicated my point correctly. Of course anyone that is an all time great will get it going sooner than that especially now with transfers and fluidity of rosters. That list is small and all I'm saying is that following certain guys can make the job harder.
Click to expand...
True.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I'm ranking on total package, and what they'll look like moving forward. Examples? I have Nebraska moving up because I think Hoiberg likely will thrive in the new "transfer free agency" era, and I think Rutgers is on the come with Pikiell. Another example is I want to put Michigan higher, but I need to see more data on Juwan Howard.

1 Michigan State
2 Ohio State
3 Purdue
4 Wisconsin
5 Michigan
6 Iowa
7 Illinois
8 Maryland
9 Rutgers
10 Indiana
11 Nebraska
12 Minnesota
13 Penn State
14 Northwestern

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Ok, so you based your list on guesses of potential and a gut feeling, not actual performance.

So as a total package, you really think that Rutgers is a significantly better basketball program than Minnesota? That Maryland is a worse program than Iowa, Purdue or Illinois? Can you name any recruit that Minnesota lost to Rutgers or Nebraska?
 

alchemy2u said:
Ok, so you based your list on guesses of potential and a gut feeling, not actual performance.

So as a total package, you really think that Rutgers is a significantly better basketball program than Minnesota? That Maryland is a worse program than Iowa, Purdue or Illinois? Can you name any recruit that Minnesota lost to Rutgers or Nebraska?
Click to expand...
You missed the words “moving forward”.
 
Last edited:

SelectionSunday said:
You missed the words “moving forward”.
Click to expand...
No, I read the title of the thread

How would you rank the 14 Big Ten programs?

And then you start with: I'm ranking on total package.

OK, so it is your prediction... So you think that Nebraska and Rutger are better programs than Minnesota?
 

alchemy2u said:
No, I read the title of the thread

How would you rank the 14 Big Ten programs?

And then you start with: I'm ranking on total package.

OK, so it is your prediction... So you think that Nebraska and Rutger are better programs than Minnesota?
Click to expand...
You are correct there. For clarity, I ranked them based on moving forward. I see Rutgers and Nebraska on firmer ground than the Gophers in the near future. Not yet, though.
 

There is a lot of year to year movement in a few spots, I would say pretty clear Michigan St is the top dog and Northwestern is the bottom. After that you can debate most spots anywhere from 2-4 spots up or down pending the year.
Tier1
Mich St
Tier 2
Ohio St
Wisconsin
Purdue
Michigan
Maryland
Tier 3
Iowa
Indiana
Illinois
Minnesota---We have more individual talent than the teams below us but RP (or anyone for that matter the last 20 years) hasnt produced enough overall team talent to move up. We are closer to the bottom tier than most want to admit, but also have the ability to go up a decent ways in a hurry if we had the right people in position (see the football squad).
Tier 4
Penn St
Nebraska
Rutgers (it was 1 solid year, lets see them prove it)
NW
 

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