How will the crowd react to Clem Haskins' return to the Barn on Tuesday?

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WAGopher said:
Was it ever proven that Clem knew about Ganglehoff helping the players academically cheat? IIRC, Clem was proven to be guilty of some of other things, like helping players through some money problems.
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Um...yes. Repeatedly in the investigation, including a cancelled check from Clem to Gangelhoff to shut her up. He was the mastermind of the entire fraud, let's not try to re-write history here.

Clem destroyed the U's reputation as both an athletic and academic institution. At lease Coach Cal and Memphis never claimed to have an academic reputation to tarnish. The U does. I am not just a basketball fan but an alum, and the reputation of the UNIVERSITY matters to me.

I will boo the ever-living sh!t out of him if he walks onto the floor at Williams. He deserves it.
 

I'd hate to see people boo the ol' Clemster although I do understand why some will. Growing up in outstate MN my first memories of Gopher basketball are watching Clem taking his jacket off and getting his players AND the crowd fired up! By the time I turned 16, my first trip to the cities was piling a bunch of my buddies in my car and driving down to Williams arena to watch Clem and the Gophers play. I still remember how excited my ol' man would get watching him on the sidelines.

He is probably the biggest reason I fell in love with Gophers sports. I'm sorry, I just couldn't bring myself to boo the guy! I know he did some bad things, but I really believe he thought in his head that he was was helping these kids out. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't make it right, but I've got a soft spot for the guy and wish him all the best on his farm in Kentucky.
 



Skage said:
Clem messed up, but I never felt it was done with malice towards the program or because of vanity. I think he wanted to keep kids eligible so they could live their dream because without basketball, I'm not sure some of them would have had any future to think about. Clem did a disservice to their education, but ultimately that responsibility rests with those who chose to cheat on themselves! Perhaps that is what makes for a great college coach - the person who can bring out the best in players, both on and off the court. A coach who can teach life lessons that creates men who become productive members of society when their basketball skills can no longer carry them. A coach who can balance the demands of winning, graduation rates, and managing the lives of young men. Perhaps Clem focused too much on the basketball side of things while losing site of the longer term objectives.

Sometimes the sanctimony on this site is over the top. I'm amazed at the posters who have apparently never messed up and are able to sit in judgment of others. People deserve a 2nd chance and forgiveness (See Royce White!) - at least that is what I've been taught since I went to Sunday School.

It hurt to see the Gophers fall as far as they did. But what is done is done and it is way past the time to move on. Clem helped to give us a lot of thrills and I'll choose to appreciate that. I also appreciate that Tubby is now at the helm and seems to be an excellent example of a "great college coach" that I discussed above, and I don't think there are too many of them!

Go Gophers!
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Kids get 2nd chances....coaches KNOW better and while he might have rationalized what he was doing was in the best interest of the kids, it was still cheating...He made a choice and now has to live with it.

We shouldn't honor someone who disgraced the program and made the wrong choices.
 


GoGoGophers said:
Um...yes. Repeatedly in the investigation, including a cancelled check from Clem to Gangelhoff to shut her up. He was the mastermind of the entire fraud, let's not try to re-write history here.

Clem destroyed the U's reputation as both an athletic and academic institution. At lease Coach Cal and Memphis never claimed to have an academic reputation to tarnish. The U does. I am not just a basketball fan but an alum, and the reputation of the UNIVERSITY matters to me.

I will boo the ever-living sh!t out of him if he walks onto the floor at Williams. He deserves it.
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Do I remember right that he tried to keep the women assaulted by his players quiet too?

Is it hearsay that Pryzbilla showed up on campus with little expectations for being a student-athlete and Voshon Lenard was a clown in classes?

He just wanted to help the kids. Would you hold your own kids to those expectations?
 

I grew up with Clem on the sidelines. The guy has been publicly shamed and has been out of basketball. He helped bring Tubby here and has only said good things about the program. He screwed up but there's no need to be bitter anymore. Personally my favorite basketball memories were the Final 4 season. I don't care if they're off the books now. Truth is (like it or not) most teams cheat in some way. Our players still had to play and they did a great job of that. I'd cheer him.
 


That would be tough for me as well. I loved Clem, think he had the players best interests at heart and I promise you this was probably being done at a ton of other schools, he just got caught.

That said, it was also an unforgivable offense.

I guess I'm surpised he's coming back. Could be very awkward.
 



I'm surprised that Mark Rotenberg didn't go totally crazy on Joel Maturi for letting Clem show up. As far as I know, he's still persona non grata in The Barn.
 

ski-u-mah said:
That would be tough for me as well. I loved Clem, think he had the players best interests at heart and I promise you this was probably being done at a ton of other schools, he just got caught.

That said, it was also an unforgivable offense.

I guess I'm surpised he's coming back. Could be very awkward.
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Why is it unforgivable? Did he murder your family member or something? He cheated. He got caught. It happens all the time. Its not right but everything is forgivable in major college sports. Reggie Bush had his family living in a mansion while in school. Dirt poor kids are driving new cars around campus. Guys go 4 years and barely attend a class, but for some reason this is unforgivable?
 

Were I in attendance of whatever game this is to happen at, I would be forced to politely applaud.

For no other reason than that his teams produced an enormous amount of entertainment value for me when I was a student, and I have to thank him for that. Scandal or no.
 





Homer,

>>He should be cheered.<<

Even your parents must be ashamed of you.

Bandanna,

>>Scandal or no.<<

I respect your opinion, but that's precisely the problem. Falling standards. Anything goes. Situation ethics. Increasingly amoral society. Heck, we even paid Clem when he left.

Carlson,

>>I'd prefer stone, cold silence.<<

Stones might be more appropriate.
 

When the NCAA takes away the John Wooden titles

he won with paid players I'll be more receptive to all this outrage over Clem.

I'll be cheering for Clem loudly, that is if they give us a chance to cheer, unlike the awful joke of
an "honor" provided to the '82 team.

Sam Gilbert and others corrupted the UCLA program beyond belief and everyone knew it. Wooden knew it and the NCAA knew it, yet no one lifted a finger to stop it.

They threw the book at Tark and Muss, while Wooden and Kentucky ran wild.

Bobby Knight called out Kentucky for cheating years ago and he called out Callipari last week. Knight is a true hero.

Spare us whining regarding Clem, and try to put it all into perspective. When the NCAA does something about Calipari and others, I'll try to muster some outrage over Clem.

Wooden,due to his tolerance of Sam Gilbert, was as crooked as it gets. Call out Wooden, then you can be "outraged" by Clem Haskins.
 

oak_street1981 said:
he won with paid players I'll be more receptive to all this outrage over Clem.

I'll be cheering for Clem loudly, that is if they give us a chance to cheer, unlike the awful joke of
an "honor" provided to the '82 team.

Sam Gilbert and others corrupted the UCLA program beyond belief and everyone knew it. Wooden knew it and the NCAA knew it, yet no one lifted a finger to stop it.

They threw the book at Tark and Muss, while Wooden and Kentucky ran wild.

Bobby Knight called out Kentucky for cheating years ago and he called out Callipari last week. Knight is a true hero.

Spare us whining regarding Clem, and try to put it all into perspective. When the NCAA does something about Calipari and others, I'll try to muster some outrage over Clem.

Wooden,due to his tolerance of Sam Gilbert, was as crooked as it gets. Call out Wooden, then you can be "outraged" by Clem Haskins.
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I'm not going to boo Clem and I'm not going to applaud. I think the best thing the crowd can do is remain silent.

What Clem did was wrong and honoring or acknowledging him is inappropriate. What disturbs me more is how Wooden is portrayed as a saint. A nice, mild mannered and articulate man who was also one of the dirtiest coaches in the history of college basketball. Every one of his star players was bought and paid for by Sam Gilbert and a couple of his pals. People get angry when the dirty little secret is discussed but, without Gilbert, Wooden is a nobody.
 

Clem Haskins is a far better person than the typical poster on here throwing stones.
 

MillionMoves said:
Clem Haskins is a far better person than the typical poster on here throwing stones.
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How can you vouch for the character of a man who blatantly cheated, got caught, denied it and then left without so much as an apology? Now he comes back and you expect us to just remember the wins??? Sorry, his legacy is stained beyond repair...IF I were in attendance I'd cheer the players but sit down and stay silent during clem's introduction.
 

Is Clem finally going to hold the press conference he promised 10 years ago when he would tell his side of the story?
 

GoGoGophers said:
Um...yes. Repeatedly in the investigation, including a cancelled check from Clem to Gangelhoff to shut her up. He was the mastermind of the entire fraud, let's not try to re-write history here.

Clem destroyed the U's reputation as both an athletic and academic institution. At lease Coach Cal and Memphis never claimed to have an academic reputation to tarnish. The U does. I am not just a basketball fan but an alum, and the reputation of the UNIVERSITY matters to me.

I will boo the ever-living sh!t out of him if he walks onto the floor at Williams. He deserves it.
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Thank you!! :clap:Thank you!! :clap:Thank you!! :clap: The revisionists were starting to hijack this thread.

Here's a recap of what Clem is responsible for: Academic Fraud; Unethical Conduct; Provision of Extra Benefits; Failure to Comply with Eligibility Requirements; Impermissible Special Arrangement; Recruiting Inducement; Violation of Eligibility/Transfer Requirements; Violation of Supplemental Pay Provisions; Violation of Rules Compliance Principal; Lack of Institutional Control.

We lost a decade of hoops' basketball and continue to endure national shame because of Clem and his cheating ways. And for all you fools who sing the "Everyone cheats, we just got caught;" your mother is embarrassed for you.
 

WAGopher said:
Was it ever proven that Clem knew about Ganglehoff helping the players academically cheat? IIRC, Clem was proven to be guilty of some of other things, like helping players through some money problems.
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Here's your answer from the NCAA Report file in October, 2000:

"The head coach was knowledgeable about and complicit in the academic fraud in which the
secretary and academic counselor engaged. The head coach knew of the secretary’s
involvement with student-athletes and her preparation of course work on their behalf.
Similarly, he knew of the activities of the academic counselor in arranging and directing the
work that the secretary did with and for men’s basketball student-athletes. By his overall
control of the men’s basketball program and the environment thereby fostered, the head
coach facilitated the activities of both the academic counselor and the secretary. His support
of their activities included special benefits provided them by him or by the men’s basketball
program. Among the benefits to the secretary was a trip to Hawaii with the team and $3000
paid to her from the personal funds of the head coach. Among the benefits to the academic
counselor was a car lease paid for a period of six years by the head coach from his personal
funds. The head coach provided three separate and detailed responses to the letter of official
inquiry sent him by the enforcement staff, responses that are discussed in this report in the
context of particular allegations involving him. The head coach’s final response was
provided two days prior to the hearing with the specific authorization of the chair. The head
coach did not appear at the hearing before the committee."
 

Anyone one that cheers Clem (much less gives him a standing ovation) should really check where they are in life. I'm not saying you have to boo the guy but to pat the guy on the back in the very building and on the very campus that he shamed, disgraced, punched-in-the-b@lls, spit-on, and sucker-punched is beyond stupid.

Everyone cheats in CB? Many of you sound like Terrelle Pryor. Whatever. Have some standards. I have no time for those that tolerate that type of behavior. You have problems.
 

Guess what. Unlike you sanctimonious folks on here, I will be cheering Clem as loud as I possibly can. Did he cheat? I have almost no doubt about it. Was it inexcusable? Absolutely. Should he have been fired? Unquestionably. Does that mean that the man should be booed, mocked, and harassed when he returns? No way. Look, I have had the chance to meet Clem a couple of times. He's an unbelievably nice guy. When I was growing up, his teams brought me a lot of joy. Sure, there was the heartbreak when the scandal broke, and at that point, Clem had to go. But my opinion has always always been that Clem was basically a good man, and that he (in my perhaps naive opinion) was able to persuade himself that the academic help was simply giving underprivileged kids a chance to succeed. I'm not going to excuse his behavior by saying that "everybody else did it, so it's okay." I am convinced that every single program in the country breaks NCAA rules to some extent, but that doesn't make it okay.

Look, maybe it's impossible to reconcile my deep antipathy for John Calipari with my still great regard for Clem Haskins. What can I say. However, for what it's worth, I'll be cheering for Clem when he gets back. I wouldn't mind hearing an apology from him though.
 

Pewterschmidt said:
Anyone one that cheers Clem (much less gives him a standing ovation) should really check where they are in life. I'm not saying you have to boo the guy but to pat the guy on the back in the very building and on the very campus that he shamed, disgraced, punched-in-the-b@lls, spit-on, and sucker-punched is beyond stupid.

Everyone cheats in CB? Many of you sound like Terrelle Pryor. Whatever. Have some standards. I have no time for those that tolerate that type of behavior. You have problems.
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lol. Get off your high horse. Just because some of us acknowledge that he actually did some good while here and appreciate those things instead of simply being pissed means we have issues? Here's the truth: CBB is entertainment. Do we want to have good kids who are on the honor roll and honorably people? Sure we do. But at the end of the day its entertainment first. Monson did a great job of cleaning things up and making kids go to class, but the Barn was half full because he didn't win. People weren't shelling out their dollars to watch a team of good kids lose. I was born in 84. Most of my youth was spent watching Clem on the sidelines. He was a good coach that had a decent run at a midlevel major conference school. I, along with the rest of the state was very entertained during that great Final 4 run. He cheated and got caught. He's been essentially banished from the state that loved him for 10 years and pretty much from all of CBB. His wrongs have been well documented and he's paid the price of them already. I would choose to acknowledge the positive he did while here this time instead of simply rehashing the same negatives. Should that whole era be a black hole? Bobby Jackson still gets cheered when he plays in the Target Center. Why can we cheer him without having to 'check where we are in life' and not Clem? I'd say you check where you are since you're obviously still bitter about what happened over 10 years ago
 

oak_street1981 said:
They threw the book at Tark and Muss, while Wooden and Kentucky ran wild.

Bobby Knight called out Kentucky for cheating years ago and he called out Callipari last week. Knight is a true hero.QUOTE]

Kentucky has gotten their due with six major NCAA infractions. Here's proof of their legacy:

kentucky-shame.jpg
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golfinggopher said:
I'd hate to see people boo the ol' Clemster although I do understand why some will. Growing up in outstate MN my first memories of Gopher basketball are watching Clem taking his jacket off and getting his players AND the crowd fired up! By the time I turned 16, my first trip to the cities was piling a bunch of my buddies in my car and driving down to Williams arena to watch Clem and the Gophers play. I still remember how excited my ol' man would get watching him on the sidelines.

He is probably the biggest reason I fell in love with Gophers sports. I'm sorry, I just couldn't bring myself to boo the guy! I know he did some bad things, but I really believe he thought in his head that he was was helping these kids out. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't make it right, but I've got a soft spot for the guy and wish him all the best on his farm in Kentucky.
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I tend to agree with this. What he did was wrong, but I think he justfied it in his own mind. The players he was 'helping' were never going to be stellar students or graduate of thier own accord. All many of them had was basketball, and he believed the most important thing was to not let that be taken away from them, no matter what. It doesn't make it right, but I consider it less sleazy then many of the things Coach Cal and others have done.

I hope everyone cheers him. If nothing else, booing him would ruin a celebration of the rest of that team that as far as we know had nothing to do with the scandal. It would also disrespect Tubby. However it ended, Clem was our coach for 13 years, and most of the memories he left us were good. Focus on those and save the bad stuff for another forum.
 

oleboy41 said:
Why is it unforgivable? Did he murder your family member or something? He cheated. He got caught. It happens all the time. Its not right but everything is forgivable in major college sports. Reggie Bush had his family living in a mansion while in school. Dirt poor kids are driving new cars around campus. Guys go 4 years and barely attend a class, but for some reason this is unforgivable?
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Why is it unforgivable? Did he murder your family member or something?
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Obviously I'm not comparing this to murder, and I even stated / acknowledged in my post that there is no way we where the only ones that did this. But what he got caught for is very major in the eyes of the NCAA, the school and most fans on this site. And it cannot be tolerated by a major college level coach (or probably anywhere for that matter).

That said, I am one that also looks at all the good things Clem did as well.
 

howeda7 said:
I hope everyone cheers him. If nothing else, booing him would ruin a celebration of the rest of that team that as far as we know had nothing to do with the scandal. It would also disrespect Tubby.
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+1
 

I'll cheer the guy for the great memories even if the wins don't count in the record books - sound screwy, I know, but it was some great basketball.
 

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