How much we miss Nolen.

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balds

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It simply amazes me how much this team misses Al Nolen, a player many consider to be a marginal talent.

1) Handling the ball. he rarely turned the ball over, could beat the press often by himself, and could beat his guy off the dribble. Not a great finisher but he's the one guy we had that could get in deep and start the defense rotating, opening up others.

2) Defense. He guarded the opposing teams best player, often doing a great job. Today we tried zone, Hoff, Rodney and Hollins against Morris. Nolen would have been on him all day, as he would have been on Lucas, Battle, McCaeany, Moore, V. jones, Lighty, etc. Also he is the only player who allows us to effectively press.

Simply put, this team has nobody who can even come close to giving us what Al did. That has become painfully evident. Even when Devoe graced us with his presence, we had none of those qualities. Thus the loss to VA and the close games with Cornell, Akron, EKY, etc.
 

Right on. Tubby will get his fair share of criticism (which, some of it, I must agree is deserved), but losing Al was definitely a back-breaker and season killer.
 

DontHassleTheHoff said:
Right on. Tubby will get his fair share of criticism (which, some of it, I must agree is deserved), but losing Al was definitely a back-breaker and season killer.
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Take away starting PG, back-up PG/SG, and back-up F/C from most teams and you see a big drop-off.

Still Gophers woulda / shoulda / coulda AT LEAST split the last 8 games (4-4 instead of 1-7).
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Take away starting PG, back-up PG/SG, and back-up F/C from most teams and you see a big drop-off.

Still Gophers woulda / shoulda / coulda AT LEAST split the last 8 games (4-4 instead of 1-7).
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Couldn't agree more. I'm a huge Tubby supporter, but even with a depleted team, you need to defend your home court. Just wish Tubby could go a full year w/o transfers, injuries and drama in general and show to us what he's capable of.
 

balds said:
It simply amazes me how much this team misses Al Nolen, a player many consider to be a marginal talent.

1) Handling the ball. he rarely turned the ball over, could beat the press often by himself, and could beat his guy off the dribble. Not a great finisher but he's the one guy we had that could get in deep and start the defense rotating, opening up others.

2) Defense. He guarded the opposing teams best player, often doing a great job. Today we tried zone, Hoff, Rodney and Hollins against Morris. Nolen would have been on him all day, as he would have been on Lucas, Battle, McCaeany, Moore, V. jones, Lighty, etc. Also he is the only player who allows us to effectively press.

Simply put, this team has nobody who can even come close to giving us what Al did. That has become painfully evident. Even when Devoe graced us with his presence, we had none of those qualities. Thus the loss to VA and the close games with Cornell, Akron, EKY, etc.
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Lots of comparisons were made to Eric Harris, and rightly so. In this day of sexy PGs like talor Battle (who has yet to take his team to the ncaas but mybe we will help their cause...sigh) Nolen is just not enough for fans - even in his absence.
 


This team is much better without Al Nolen, and perhaps the most unfortunate part of that is Al was a decent/good player, but certainly not great. I'm not sure that Devoe could even be considered a serviceable replacement when he was here, and to not have backup point guard after four years is ridiculous.
 

balds said:
It simply amazes me how much this team misses Al Nolen, a player many consider to be a marginal talent.

1) Handling the ball. he rarely turned the ball over, could beat the press often by himself, and could beat his guy off the dribble. Not a great finisher but he's the one guy we had that could get in deep and start the defense rotating, opening up others.

2) Defense. He guarded the opposing teams best player, often doing a great job. Today we tried zone, Hoff, Rodney and Hollins against Morris. Nolen would have been on him all day, as he would have been on Lucas, Battle, McCaeany, Moore, V. jones, Lighty, etc. Also he is the only player who allows us to effectively press.

Simply put, this team has nobody who can even come close to giving us what Al did. That has become painfully evident. Even when Devoe graced us with his presence, we had none of those qualities. Thus the loss to VA and the close games with Cornell, Akron, EKY, etc.
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you are dreaming.

Al could play D.
Al could shoot FT's

Al could NOT shoot from the field, get to the rim, feed the low block,
Al was a good, not great ballhandler... there were many games he had 5+ TO's, many unforced.
Al was not a setup guy.. he had two of the highest flyers in college hoops on either wing.. if he was a good setup man, it would have been a dunk-fest.

it was Westbrook who we went to for a clutch shot the past few years... never Al.
 

We miss Al? Thanks for pointing that out Captain Obvious! For your next thread tell us how much we miss Devoe.
 

balds said:
It simply amazes me how much this team misses Al Nolen, a player many consider to be a marginal talent.

1) Handling the ball. he rarely turned the ball over, could beat the press often by himself, and could beat his guy off the dribble. Not a great finisher but he's the one guy we had that could get in deep and start the defense rotating, opening up others.

2) Defense. He guarded the opposing teams best player, often doing a great job. Today we tried zone, Hoff, Rodney and Hollins against Morris. Nolen would have been on him all day, as he would have been on Lucas, Battle, McCaeany, Moore, V. jones, Lighty, etc. Also he is the only player who allows us to effectively press.

Simply put, this team has nobody who can even come close to giving us what Al did. That has become painfully evident. Even when Devoe graced us with his presence, we had none of those qualities. Thus the loss to VA and the close games with Cornell, Akron, EKY, etc.
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From a Monson lost cause to the reason for a lost season.

Bottom line - this team is 6-10 in conference. That is pathetic in year 4.


It is on Tubby Smith. No capable backup PG.
 



BarnBurner said:
It is on Tubby Smith. No capable backup PG.
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At the end of last season, we had 3 capable PG's.

Al Nolen - Senior
Devoe Joseph - Junior
Justin Cobbs - Sophomore

Justin Cobbs transferred in the offseason, leaving us to recruit another PG, Maverick Ahanmisi, late in the game after missing out on Cory Joseph (man we would be in great shape if he had come here). Then our primary back up PG, Devoe Joseph, transferred midseason. Then our starting PG, Al Nolen, suffered a foot injury, leaving us with only our starting SG and our late signee freshman PG to play.

We had 3 capable PG's at the end of last season. Two transferred, one is injured. Not Tubby's fault.
 

Yes we miss Nolen. However, not because he is Al Nolen. Because he is a decent pg. Any pg would help this team tremendously. It isn't that Al is that good. He isn't when you compare him to other Big Ten guards, but he is a pg and we have none. Zero. The slowest MN team ever. Last season Al flunked out and a sg handled the point just fine. Coming into the season Tubby knew Al had a bad foot. He knew Devoe was unhappy and he knew Cobbs had transferred. He waits until spring to get a no from Joseph (he should have known given Devoe's troubles), then wastes a scholarship on something call Maverick. He signs more bigs. We didn't need bigs. We need guards and quickness.
 

Here U Go Then

minngg said:
Yes we miss Nolen. However, not because he is Al Nolen. Because he is a decent pg. Any pg would help this team tremendously. It isn't that Al is that good. He isn't when you compare him to other Big Ten guards, but he is a pg and we have none. Zero. The slowest MN team ever. Last season Al flunked out and a sg handled the point just fine. Coming into the season Tubby knew Al had a bad foot. He knew Devoe was unhappy and he knew Cobbs had transferred. He waits until spring to get a no from Joseph (he should have known given Devoe's troubles), then wastes a scholarship on something call Maverick. He signs more bigs. We didn't need bigs. We need guards and quickness.
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Clipped from Lance McAlister (loudmouth sportstalk host in Cincy) today:

Want to coach a college basketball program?
What If Sports has openings in their Hoops Dynasty game. Want to try it out?
I'm coaching at Butler University. My team rebounded from 7-21 last season to go 25-5 and make the tournament this season. A first time coach can play for just $4.95. Email me and I'll send you an invite.
Hoops Dynasty is your chance to work your way to the top of the college basketball coaching world! You'll first need to find a job and begin recruiting. As if finding the perfect high school or junior college player for your coaching system wasn't difficult enough, you'll have a limited budget and hundreds of other coaches competing with you.
After the recruiting period has ended, you'll coach your team through an entire college basketball season. Gameplan for each upcoming opponent. Manage playing time. Watch your RPI. Win your conference tournament. Win a National Championship. You have just laid the foundation for your own Hoops Dynasty!
 

minngg said:
Yes we miss Nolen. However, not because he is Al Nolen. Because he is a decent pg. Any pg would help this team tremendously. It isn't that Al is that good. He isn't when you compare him to other Big Ten guards, but he is a pg and we have none. Zero. The slowest MN team ever. Last season Al flunked out and a sg handled the point just fine. Coming into the season Tubby knew Al had a bad foot. He knew Devoe was unhappy and he knew Cobbs had transferred. He waits until spring to get a no from Joseph (he should have known given Devoe's troubles), then wastes a scholarship on something call Maverick. He signs more bigs. We didn't need bigs. We need guards and quickness.[/QUOTE]

..........................and shooters.
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Cayman said:
At the end of last season, we had 3 capable PG's.

Al Nolen - Senior
Devoe Joseph - Junior
Justin Cobbs - Sophomore
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Some might say 4 PG's at the end of last season.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bryant Allen playing some point guard during our last 1-7 stretch.

I am not sure why Allen transferred. I believe I read earlier on G-Hole that Tubby indicated to Allen he was not interested in having him on the BBall team this year. Did Allen transfer where he could play both sports? I thought Tubby gave Allen some assurance that he could walk on play some basketball when he signed his LOI for his football scholarship. I thought that was why Allen signed a football LOI in the first place. He wanted and was told he would have the opportunity to play both sports.

Was there a little bit of mixed messages from Tubby on the Bryant Allen status?

Some might think Allen would not have made any difference. I thought he could have helped. And in hindsight Tubby prolly knew he had some PG issues facing him. He suspended Devoe the first several games of the season. Not sure if any of this is accurate but I thought I read it from a fairly 'reputable' gopherhole source. Just venting a lil about our 1-7 stretch.
 

I think Nolen is/was a very good college basketball player.

Easily the most influential player on the floor in past wins vs. Louisville, Ohio St., Purdue, North Carolina. No, he wasn't the go to guy, but he did break presses, get inside, get fouled, make his free throws, play great defense, find Hoff for countless threes, get huge steals, etc. in many wins the past 4 years.

My point wasn't that he was a great player, or wasn't to beat a dead horse (obviously we miss him). My point was that I'm simply amazed at HOW much we miss him and how shocked I am that nobody was able to supply any of what he did (ball handling, penetration, perimeter defense, etc.)
 

We might miss shooters but our best shooter is nullified because he has to handle the ball the majority of the time. Blake can't make his own shot his game is set up by others and him using screens to get open. Having no real point guard killed two positions no just one. Al is that important, not because he is our best player but because he is the QB of our team. He's the caretaker and before the injury his game was as good as it has ever been including hitting wide-open jump shots.

Also for the all the people blaming Tubby. Get real! The season played out in away in which it didn't work out! It happens! This team will be better next year but you can't plan around injuries AND untimely transfers.

Follow me on twitter: kenfromkenya10
 

balds said:
Easily the most influential player on the floor in past wins vs. Louisville, Ohio St., Purdue, North Carolina. No, he wasn't the go to guy, but he did break presses, get inside, get fouled, make his free throws, play great defense, find Hoff for countless threes, get huge steals, etc. in many wins the past 4 years.

My point wasn't that he was a great player, or wasn't to beat a dead horse (obviously we miss him). My point was that I'm simply amazed at HOW much we miss him and how shocked I am that nobody was able to supply any of what he did (ball handling, penetration, perimeter defense, etc.)
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Let's be honest. In Big Ten games that Al Nolen played in during his career, we were under .500. Basically Al is being judged on non-conference games against mostly weaker opponents. Last season, we had a better record vs. Big Ten teams that with him. Those are just the facts.
 

minngg said:
Let's be honest. In Big Ten games that Al Nolen played in during his career, we were under .500. Basically Al is being judged on non-conference games against mostly weaker opponents. Last season, we had a better record vs. Big Ten teams that with him. Those are just the facts.
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Al Nolen is an excellent PG.

I think you'll find that Gophers did better (2008 through 2011) in games he played (overall W-L record) than games he didn't play.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Al Nolen is an excellent PG.

I think you'll find that Gophers did better (2008 through 2011) in games he played (overall W-L record) than games he didn't play.
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Well yes, since Al played two full seasons against some of the weakest NC schedules know to man. I love when people say we won more games last year with Al than Devoe last year. Duh, Devoe started all games against Big Ten teams and Al played 90% against stiffs. So I agree with your statement, it just doesn't mean anything.
 

minngg said:
Well yes, since Al played two full seasons against some of the weakest NC schedules know to man. I love when people say we won more games last year with Al than Devoe last year. Duh, Devoe started all games against Big Ten teams and Al played 90% against stiffs. So I agree with your statement, it just doesn't mean anything.
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Those OOC schedules included games against Louisville, North Carolina, West Virginia (et al).
 

For the record, Cobbs never showed me anything that made him "capable" in his few minutes he played last year.

He could dribble, which was nice.
 

Cayman said:
At the end of last season, we had 3 capable PG's.

Al Nolen - Senior
Devoe Joseph - Junior
Justin Cobbs - Sophomore

Justin Cobbs transferred in the offseason, leaving us to recruit another PG, Maverick Ahanmisi, late in the game after missing out on Cory Joseph (man we would be in great shape if he had come here). Then our primary back up PG, Devoe Joseph, transferred midseason. Then our starting PG, Al Nolen, suffered a foot injury, leaving us with only our starting SG and our late signee freshman PG to play.

We had 3 capable PG's at the end of last season. Two transferred, one is injured. Not Tubby's fault.
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NOTHING ever is.....
 


last year

minngg said:
Well yes, since Al played two full seasons against some of the weakest NC schedules know to man. I love when people say we won more games last year with Al than Devoe last year. Duh, Devoe started all games against Big Ten teams and Al played 90% against stiffs. So I agree with your statement, it just doesn't mean anything.
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We were 3-3 in Big Ten games with Al and 6-6 without. The portion of the schedule we went 3-3 with Al included losses @Purdue (With Hummel), @Michigan St. and the Victory over eventual #2 seed Ohio St.

I think any rational person can analyze the way the team played without Devoe (pre-Virginia& 4-3 in Big Ten) and how the team played without Al (loss to VA, could barely beat Cornell, Akron, Eastern Ky), to know that Al was much more important to our team than Devoe.

Going into the Michigan game in which he broke his foot, Al was really in a groove, having two great games vs. Purdue and Iowa.
 

I'm actually glad Joseph left, even if it means missing the NCAA tournament. From the one story I've heard, if he had any problem with Tubby, I'm glad he is gone. He didn't represent the U well.
 

balds said:
We were 3-3 in Big Ten games with Al and 6-6 without. The portion of the schedule we went 3-3 with Al included losses @Purdue (With Hummel), @Michigan St. and the Victory over eventual #2 seed Ohio St.

I think any rational person can analyze the way the team played without Devoe (pre-Virginia& 4-3 in Big Ten) and how the team played without Al (loss to VA, could barely beat Cornell, Akron, Eastern Ky), to know that Al was much more important to our team than Devoe.

Going into the Michigan game in which he broke his foot, Al was really in a groove, having two great games vs. Purdue and Iowa.
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Um, you are forgetting the Big Ten Tournament. We won 3 games including MSU (a final four team), Purdue (a sweet 16 team). When you add the 3-1 Big Ten Tourney record, we were 12-10 without Nolen and won some very huge games.

Looking at a few NC games to determine the worth of a p[layer. Especially one that hadn't played for the whole off-season and then a suspension is short-sighted at best.
 

Cayman said:
At the end of last season, we had 3 capable PG's.

Al Nolen - Senior
Devoe Joseph - Junior
Justin Cobbs - Sophomore

Justin Cobbs transferred in the offseason, leaving us to recruit another PG, Maverick Ahanmisi, late in the game after missing out on Cory Joseph (man we would be in great shape if he had come here). Then our primary back up PG, Devoe Joseph, transferred midseason. Then our starting PG, Al Nolen, suffered a foot injury, leaving us with only our starting SG and our late signee freshman PG to play.

We had 3 capable PG's at the end of last season. Two transferred, one is injured. Not Tubby's fault.
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Cayman- Cobbs transferred because he didn't want to play for Tubby and it looked like the feeling was mutual. Tubby didn't like the way Joseph played the point. Nolen was an academic casualty last year and was no certainty to last through this year academically. So the point guard position was in doubt all along. Tubby gambled on Cory and lost. From the looks of his relationship with Devoe I seriously wonder if we ever had a chance. Some of this is bad luck but there is plenty of fault on Tubby on this. At the very least he had to find a way to make his relationship with Devoe work. Motivation and managing relationships are part of coaching.
 

Yeah he should have just looked the other way when Devoe was making an ass of himself at University of Minnesota events.
 

Cayman said:
We had 3 capable PG's at the end of last season. Two transferred, one is injured. Not Tubby's fault.
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Do you know for certain that neither Cobbs's nor Joseph's departure were not Tubby related? And Al's injury isn't Tubby's fault, but not having another capable backup, even when Cobbs and Joseph were around, and Al's heavy minutes may have contributed to a Al's stress fracture.
 

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