How many Championships?

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Wikipedia shows us as having 7 National Championships, because something called the Billingsley Report gives is the 1904 NC. So, we could claim one more if we really wanted to, the U hasn't chosen to do this.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Not according to the AP...1936 was the first year.
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No, 1934 was the first year of the AP poll according to my research. It first ran in 1934, then continuously from 1936.

1934 - Minnesota #1 (first AP poll)
1935 - no known AP poll, but Minnesota #1 in most other polls
1936 - Minnesota #1 (second AP poll)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP_Poll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_college_football_season

The first ever published AP Poll came in 1934.[2] However, this was a one time event and the AP sportswriters' poll would not be continuously until 1936.[3]
 

I guess the Grantland Rice Trophy that Ole Miss received as National Champion doesn't count, but the 1960 national championship trophy that Tim Brewster had made and put in the trophy case does count.
 

BigTenGuy said:
I guess the Grantland Rice Trophy that Ole Miss received as National Champion doesn't count, but the 1960 national championship trophy that Tim Brewster had made and put in the trophy case does count.
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Both trophies count - ever heard of split national championships? YOU are the one claiming that Minnesota's national championship doesn't count but Ole Miss's does count.

The trophy in question is perfectly legitimate. It is misleading to say that Brewster had it made: it's true, but not accurate. The AFCA (Coach's Poll) Trophy was started in 1986, but was retroactively authorized for the AFCA champions prior to 1986. Here's a list of the AFCA Champions: http://www.afca.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9300&ATCLID=639518 That trophy is as legitimate as any other AFCA Championship Trophy. The trophy is not the championship, it is a symbol of the championship, and Minnesota was without a doubt the AFCA and AP champion.

In those days, it was not at all uncommon for the national champion to lose in their bowl game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaches_Poll Oklahoma, 1950, Tennessee 1951, Maryland 1953, Minnesota 1961, Alabama 1964, Michigan State 1965, Texas 1970, Alabama 1973. It took well over 24 years to change picking a champion until after the bowl games. You're letting current perception of bowl games cloud your judgement.
 


I'm glad your at least willing to concede that Ole Miss can also claim the 1960 national championship. Your list (Oklahoma, 1950, Tennessee 1951, Maryland 1953, Minnesota 1960, Alabama 1964, Michigan State 1965, Texas 1970, Alabama 1973) proves my point about 1960 being an "absurd" mythical national championship for Minnesota. You list 8 teams that lost their bowl game, but were still national champion. The other 7 teams finished with 1 loss, giving them an argument. Only Minnesota finished with 2 losses, including the bowl game.
 

BigTenGuy said:
I'm glad your at least willing to concede that Ole Miss can also claim the 1960 national championship. Your list (Oklahoma, 1950, Tennessee 1951, Maryland 1953, Minnesota 1960, Alabama 1964, Michigan State 1965, Texas 1970, Alabama 1973) proves my point about 1960 being an "absurd" mythical national championship for Minnesota. You list 8 teams that lost their bowl game, but were still national champion. The other 7 teams finished with 1 loss, giving them an argument. Only Minnesota finished with 2 losses, including the bowl game.
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Nobody really gives a crap if you think it is "absurd", or "mythical". Is the NCAA going to consult the opinion of some random message board jackass and strip us of it? I see six years listed proudly at TCF Bank - none of which have an asterisk implying they aren't deserved.

Are you trying to retroactively dismiss our accomplishments because your school has none? Get over it.
 

BigTenGuy said:
I'm glad your at least willing to concede that Ole Miss can also claim the 1960 national championship. Your list (Oklahoma, 1950, Tennessee 1951, Maryland 1953, Minnesota 1960, Alabama 1964, Michigan State 1965, Texas 1970, Alabama 1973) proves my point about 1960 being an "absurd" mythical national championship for Minnesota. You list 8 teams that lost their bowl game, but were still national champion. The other 7 teams finished with 1 loss, giving them an argument. Only Minnesota finished with 2 losses, including the bowl game.
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1960 AP Poll:

#1 Minnesota

1960 Coaches Poll:

#1 Minnesota.

End of story. Undisputed national champions. And no, Mississippi can't legitimately claim to be 1960 national champions. Some organization may have given them a trophy, but from 1936 on, the winners of the AP and Coaches polls are the national champions. I could form an organization and award Indiana the national championship this year, but that doesn't mean they are legitimate national champions. Last year, the Hogan Poll named TCU national champions - does that mean that they get a split title? Of course not.

You need to get over the two loss issue. We had only one loss when we were named national champions. And despite that, if we had 5 losses but had been named #1 by both polls, guess what? We're STILL the undisputed national champions!
 

2727Gopher said:
You need to get over the two loss issue. We had only one loss when we were named national champions. And despite that, if we had 5 losses but had been named #1 by both polls, guess what? We're STILL the undisputed national champions!
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Exactly, what if instead of playing Bama, PSU played Ball State this year. they would be 6-2 instead of 5-3, and probably ranked. Would they be a better team?
 



BigTenGuy said:
I'm glad your at least willing to concede that Ole Miss can also claim the 1960 national championship. Your list (Oklahoma, 1950, Tennessee 1951, Maryland 1953, Minnesota 1960, Alabama 1964, Michigan State 1965, Texas 1970, Alabama 1973) proves my point about 1960 being an "absurd" mythical national championship for Minnesota. You list 8 teams that lost their bowl game, but were still national champion. The other 7 teams finished with 1 loss, giving them an argument. Only Minnesota finished with 2 losses, including the bowl game.
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Ole Miss can claim it, but from a much less respectable source: The AP and the Coaches Poll have always been the most respected sources.

It's fun making mincemeat out of people's crappy arguments. But with you it is just too easy. Over a 24 year span 8 of the champions lost their bowl game, and four of the champions in that stretch didn't even play in bowl games. Michigan State in 1952 (too new to the Big Ten, not yet elligible), UCLA in 1954 (Could not play in consecutive bowls), Oklahoma in 1956 (Could not play in consecutive bowls) and Notre Dame in 1966 (did not participate in bowls until 1968).

So we have national champions that lost 8 of the 20 games played. And no one seemed to mind. Had it been an issue, it would have been addressed in 1950. Or they could addressed it in 1960, after the Gophers lost their bowl game. Instead, it took until 1974 for change this, after four more teams lost their bowl games.

That it took 24 years to change just proves that bowls did not then have the same status as they did today. The football world recognizes Minnesota as the 1960 National Champion. Deal with it.

Go on the Oklahoma board. Tell them their 1950 National Championship is invalid.
Go on the Tennessee board. Tell them their 1951 National Championship is invalid.
Go on the Michigan State board. Tell them their 1952 and 1965 National Championships are invalid.
Go on the Maryland board. Tell them their 1953 National Championship is invalid.
Go on the Alabama board. Tell them their 1964 and 1973 National Championships are invalid.
Go on the Texas board. Tell them their 1970 National Championship is invalid.

Go ahead. But you'll sputter and babble saying "But they had only one loss!" It doesn't make a difference. Either losing the bowl game invalidates a National Championship or it doesn't. The rest of the football world doesn't agree with you, so why should we agree with you?

You know as well as I do that this isn't some honest, well-considered opinion, it's just empty smack. So go ahead, babble some more, and we'll continue to make minemeat of you.
 

RodentRampage said:
Ole Miss can claim it, but from a much less respectable source: The AP and the Coaches Poll have always been the most respected sources.

It's fun making mincemeat out of people's crappy arguments. But with you it is just too easy. That over a 24 year span 8 of the champions lost their bowl game, and four of the champions in that stretch didn't even play in bowl games. Michigan State in 1952 (too to the Big Ten, not yet elligible), UCLA in 1954 (Could not play in consecutive bowls), Oklahoma in 1956 (Could not play in consecutive bowls) and Notre Dame in 1966 (did not participate in bowls until 1968).

So we have national champions that lost 8 of the 20 games played. And no one seemed to mind. Had it been an issue, it would have been addressed in 1950. Or they could addressed it in 1960, after the Gophers lost their bowl game. Instead, it took until 1974 for change this, after four more teams lost their bowl games.

That it took 24 years to change just proves that bowls did not then have the same status as they did today. The football world recognizes Minnesota as the 1960 National Champion. Deal with it.

Go on the Oklahoma board. Tell them their 1950 National Championship is invalid.
Go on the Tennessee board. Tell them their 1951 National Championship is invalid.
Go on the Michigan State board. Tell them their 1952 and 1965 National Championships are invalid.
Go on the Maryland board. Tell them their 1953 National Championship is invalid.
Go on the Alabama board. Tell them their 1964 and 1973 National Championships are invalid.
Go on the Texas board. Tell them their 1970 National Championship is invalid.

Go ahead. But you'll sputter and babble saying "But they had only one loss!" It doesn't make a difference. Either losing the bowl game invalidates a National Championship or it doesn't. The rest of the football world doesn't agree with you, so why should we agree with you?

You know as well as I do that this isn't some honest, well-considered opinion, it's just empty smack. So go ahead, babble some more, and we'll continue to make minemeat of you.
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+1

Nothing more need be said to the minimally sane. :banghead:
 

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