How long will it be.....

[DoubleB]

until TCF is sold out?

no question the season ticket holders are upset
at current pricing the stadium is not sold out
increased forced donations will cause some people to drop buying tickets
same number of corporations are in the area that have not purchased tickets up to now
Winning should bring in some more interest in tickets

so how much more winning will it take to get the stadium full of Gopher fans(not the visitor's filling it up)

8-4? 9-3? 10-2? 11-1?

not sure how far coach Kill will take this team but consistently hitting 9+ wins in my opinion will still not be enough to get the stadium filled

 

[Ole]

until TCF is sold out?

no question the season ticket holders are upset
at current pricing the stadium is not sold out
increased forced donations will cause some people to drop buying tickets
same number of corporations are in the area that have not purchased tickets up to now
Winning should bring in some more interest in tickets

so how much more winning will it take to get the stadium full of Gopher fans(not the visitor's filling it up)

8-4? 9-3? 10-2? 11-1?

not sure how far coach Kill will take this team but consistently hitting 9+ wins in my opinion will still not be enough to get the stadium filled

I started a thread with similar thoughts.
I think Kill is expecting a 10 win season in the next 2, if he's not Norwood is.
Next season it's possible/maybe probable we could win all the games we did this year, plus Illinois. The big road wins come home, the road losses do too. The home loss is OSu which honestly I think could be ranked #1 next season at some point.
If we are at 9 wins and split TCU/wisky i think all this ticket stuff melts into a new age of Gopher football just being a great program and people will want to come see a Minnesota team win.
Then you have 2016 which on paper looks really soft minus the road trips to Nebraska and wisky. Our games against Oregon st and Colorado St just probably got easier, it's conceivable/possible if Kill continues to build better teams here we could be looking at 4 seasons of 8+ wins and maybe a double digit win season in the next 2.
It's a bet, but maybe Norwood and Kill think it's a good bet.

 

[wdgold]

To me its simple you can have all the 9-10 win seasons you want if your not winning the border battles like were not doing currently with badgers it will not happen. Look at coach Cooper from Ohio St. If I remember right one of the things that did him in if not the only thing is that he couldn't beat Michigan.

 

[stevedave23]

Average MN Sports fans (not Gopher diehards) are spoiled event snobs. Gopher football will sell out when if/when it ever becomes, "the popular thing to do."

Most Vikings games sell out because its, "the popular thing to do." The first couple of years at Target Field Twins games sold out because it was, "the popular thing to do." When the Timberwolves first started and they played in the dome they set an NBA attendance record because it was, "the popular thing to do."

I could go on and on.

 

[DougMN]

Average MN Sports fans (not Gopher diehards) are spoiled event snobs. Gopher football will sell out when if/when it ever becomes, "the popular thing to do."

Most Vikings games sell out because its, "the popular thing to do." The first couple of years at Target Field Twins games sold out because it was, "the popular thing to do." When the Timberwolves first started and they played in the dome they set an NBA attendance record because it was, "the popular thing to do."

I could go on and on.

Tell'em Steve Dave!

 

[short ornery norwegian]

To consistently sell out the stadium, I think the Gophs will have to do the following in the next 2-3 years:
Beat Wisconsin
Win a B1G title
Play in a major bowl game - preferably the Rose bowl, unless it's tied up with the College FB playoff system. (and that's another problem - the casual fan who doesn't follow this stuff doesn't understand why the Gophs wouldn't be in the rose bowl after winning the B1G.)
--and the holy grail - play in the College Playoff.

Mind you - I am NOT predicting that any of this will happen. I'm just saying that type of success is what it will take to get the fans excited enough to sell out every game.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

To consistently sell out the stadium, I think the Gophs will have to do the following in the next 2-3 years:
Beat Wisconsin
Win a B1G title
Play in a major bowl game - preferably the Rose bowl, unless it's tied up with the College FB playoff system. (and that's another problem - the casual fan who doesn't follow this stuff doesn't understand why the Gophs wouldn't be in the rose bowl after winning the B1G.)
--and the holy grail - play in the College Playoff.

Mind you - I am NOT predicting that any of this will happen. I'm just saying that type of success is what it will take to get the fans excited enough to sell out every game.

I'll predict it...if we don't win a B1G title in the next 4 years, Norwood loses his job and these expansive seat fees get rolled back. If not, this is the new norm. We compete for titles every 3-4 years and Gopher fans have to pay for the victories like every other fan of a winning team does.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

I'll predict it...if we don't win a B1G title in the next 4 years, Norwood loses his job and these expansive seat fees get rolled back. If not, this is the new norm. We compete for titles every 3-4 years and Gopher fans have to pay for the victories like every other fan of a winning team does.

Here's to hoping that will be the new norm.

I agree with that assessment, wondering how/where the new facilities would fit in with this 4 year prediction.

I'm okay with paying more for via 'scholarship seating', it comes with the territory of winning. I just felt the request came a year too soon, and now its more of a gamble.

 

[tato2001]

I'm okay with paying more for via 'scholarship seating', it comes with the territory of winning. I just felt the request came a year too soon, and now its more of a gamble.

Right. By instituting now, the Gophers risk losing a lot of long-time STH's, and replacing them with Corps who couldn't care less about the team or program. Whereas if they'd waited until they had a couple years of success, the long-time STH's would likely be much more comfortable paying up. This is a big risk to the look and feel of attending a game when the Gophers do not have the tradition of success and the support it brings.

 

[Ole]

Right. By instituting now, the Gophers risk losing a lot of long-time STH's, and replacing them with Corps who couldn't care less about the team or program. Whereas if they'd waited until they had a couple years of success, the long-time STH's would likely be much more comfortable paying up. This is a big risk to the look and feel of attending a game when the Gophers do not have the tradition of success and the support it brings.

Honest query:
If they didn't announce this at all, won 10 games next year including wisky at the current prices, then announced this plan would everyone be on board?
I think I probably would be, simply because winning teams demand higher prices.
I'm ok paying more if the team is winning 8+ games a year.

 

[DoubleB]

Average MN Sports fans (not Gopher diehards) are spoiled event snobs. Gopher football will sell out when if/when it ever becomes, "the popular thing to do."

Most Vikings games sell out because its, "the popular thing to do." The first couple of years at Target Field Twins games sold out because it was, "the popular thing to do." When the Timberwolves first started and they played in the dome they set an NBA attendance record because it was, "the popular thing to do."

I could go on and on.

So to respond to you...When will it be popular to go to a Gopher game to the point it sells out?

I dont think you can compare a Professional team with a amature team. with Pro teams holding players for more than 4-5 years or less with free agency, trades etc.

supply and demand. the Gophers have an over supply of seats (not selling out) and now they are charging more for those seats kind of goes against the Econ 101. logically speaking and without all the extra fees the U will have to shell out for the elite athletes it would be a better campaign if the demand for tickets were such that they had a waiting list. so that when people cant afford the donation demands then another person could step right in and buy those.

as it is I foresee a drop off in season ticket holders only to be picked up by visitor fans on a game by game basis reversing the atmosphere that was turning around at our home field.

Has Norwood made a statement yet on this?

 

[tato2001]

Honest query:
If they didn't announce this at all, won 10 games next year including wisky at the current prices, then announced this plan would everyone be on board?
I think I probably would be, simply because winning teams demand higher prices.
I'm ok paying more if the team is winning 8+ games a year.

I think a lot of folks feel that if the program got to the point where years like this were 'baseline' standard, a 7-6 year was a down year, and there was upside for years of 10 wins, they would probably accept 10% annual increases until the cows came home. They would just get used to it ("oh great. Here comes the mailer with the price increase. Oh well...")

 

[Ole]

I think a lot of folks feel that if the program got to the point where years like this were 'baseline' standard, a 7-6 year was a down year, and there was upside for years of 10 wins, they would probably accept 10% annual increases until the cows came home. They would just get used to it ("oh great. Here comes the mailer with the price increase. Oh well...")

I think you're right.
I think this is what Norwood is betting on, it's a risky bet because if we go 5-7 next year all hell will break loose in 2016, but if he bets that the program is safely into 8 win plateau territory and can build from there then maybe I can see why he'd take this risk.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

Norwood should be fired. Contact all 11 regents, plus Kaler. Not a single sellout this year (and few any year in a small stadium) and Norwood insults and dismisses the most loyal Gopher fans.

 

[UST_Gopher]

My source inside the athletic department says this increase in "donation" fees has been in the works for nearly two years. Woody has has been waiting until we were competitive in the BIG, to put the plan in place. They said Iowa and Wisconsin are both making $ Millions more than the U is with the current donation structure in place.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

My source inside the athletic department says this increase in "donation" fees has been in the works for nearly two years. Woody has has been waiting until we were competitive in the BIG, to put the plan in place. They said Iowa and Wisconsin are both making $ Millions more than the U is with the current donation structure in place.

Are they making more because of the donation structure, or sheer volume of tickets sold?

 

[RailBaronYarr]

My source inside the athletic department says this increase in "donation" fees has been in the works for nearly two years. Woody has has been waiting until we were competitive in the BIG, to put the plan in place. They said Iowa and Wisconsin are both making $ Millions more than the U is with the current donation structure in place.

Why does it matter what the donation levels are relative to other institutions? It's not really a "donation" if it's required. Call it whatever they want, it's a built-in amount on the ticket value. What matters is the revenue and expenses at a high level if that is their case. We don't seem to be doing poorly - we have 23 varsity programs, good for tied for 8th in the Big Ten (right in the middle) so we're neither at a disadvantage or major advantage when talking financing non-rev sports. If we're operating in the black, then we're covering our expenses, regardless of if donations are high or low relative to our peers.

Again, they can play the marketing shell game with numbers and focus on scholarships to sell the sob story about their student athletes needing funding etc etc. It's not about that. Their costs have increased very marginally over the last 5-6 years, right around 2-3% a year. It's about the expected rise in other costs (coaches salaries, facilities O&M, etc) that are currently being covered by existing revenue streams (tickets, concessions, donations, etc) that will no longer be so when they rise themselves. They're asking us to up the ante "for scholarships" so the other revs can be re-directed. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, other than the lack of transparency/honesty and the rate at which they're increasing the costs.

To answer the OP's question, I think it will be a long time until the place is sold out with STHs. We're many thousand shy right now (taking out students & away seats), and the people who are priced out by this won't be coming back any time soon, they'll wait for single game tickets. If the Gophers really go improve to a 9-11 win team where we win a B1G title or two in the next 5 years (or are playing in the CCG somewhat regularly) with a few wins over Wisc, I can see demand rising enough to come close to selling out ST seats even with the preemptive price increase. But it will come from new corporate buyers, so attendance will remain basically what it is today. And therefore gameday atmosphere will not improve.

 

[UST_Gopher]

Are they making more because of the donation structure, or sheer volume of tickets sold?

They did not say specifically, however, I would assume it is due to the amount of season ticket holders and not the specific donation structure. However, multiple factors could be providing the additional revenue these schools are receiving compared to the U. First off, the size of the stadium and the number of potential season ticket holders puts less strain on each individual STH and therefore the donation itself is lower. They also have much deeper fanbase than what the U does and most likely will for a long time.

What I can tell you is that the nose bleed seats, row 94-98 at Memorial Stadium in Nebraska, would cost a STH a $250 "donation" according to a few Nebraska fans. (Disclaimer: I'm taking a couple Nebraska fans comments from a post game celebration from a few weeks ago) Granted the past 50 years have proved to build a strong fanbase in Lincoln that does not exist here. Nevertheless, If you want to have nice facilities and woooo recruits, you need to increase the budget, not cut costs.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

The Gophers will NEVER consistently sell out their stadium. Given the choice between freezing their asses off and watching the game on their big screen TVs at home everyone knows what is going to happen. The Vikings hardly ever sold out when they were playing outside at Met Stadium. And that was in the 1970's when they were one of the best teams in football.

 

[forever a gopher]

Right. By instituting now, the Gophers risk losing a lot of long-time STH's, and replacing them with Corps who couldn't care less about the team or program. Whereas if they'd waited until they had a couple years of success, the long-time STH's would likely be much more comfortable paying up. This is a big risk to the look and feel of attending a game when the Gophers do not have the tradition of success and the support it brings.

I've heard this logic throughout multiple threads. I don't get the logic that with prices going up, that corporate ticket sales will go up. If corporations aren't buying large quantities of tickets now at cheaper prices, why would they start buying them when the price goes up? I sit in sec. 133 by the students, so I don't really know if the "good" seats are currently filled with corporate tix. I don't get the impression, however, that they are.

I would argue that corporations like to purchase most of their tickets to teams that sell out and have some sort of exclusivity to them. I would imagine it's pretty hard to give away free tickets to a Timberwolves game, for example. (partly because they stink, but also partly because it's so easy to get cheap tickets on your own).

If Norwood prices current season ticket holders out of TCF, and the attendance keeps dropping, getting cheap tickets isn't going to be an issue. That makes tickets less appealing to corporations, as the event is less exclusive, less exciting, and less trendy.

I would assume the corporate tickets would remain about the same, and there are just fewer people buying season tickets in the lower level, as they can't afford them come 2017.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

Honest query:
If they didn't announce this at all, won 10 games next year including wisky at the current prices, then announced this plan would everyone be on board?
I think I probably would be, simply because winning teams demand higher prices.
I'm ok paying more if the team is winning 8+ games a year.

I definitely would be on board, if the scenario you described happened in 2015.. I won't lie here, the emotionally draining nature of our most recent Wisconsin seemed to make the timing of this really poor. We win that game, and this goes over much better in terms of initial reaction. Maybe in the end the revenue numbers don't change much going into 2015, but even waiting to see if we have Bowl win to hang our hat on would have been better. Just seems like Norwood is oblivious (or obtuse) as to how this would be received by the loyalist. STHs of this program.

 

[scools12]

watching this play out on GH is pretty interesting.

Many posters have indicated their believe the program has turned the corner after back to back 8 win seasons. Nebraska last year and Michigan this year claimed as signature wins. Those victories have proved enough has been done.

Now that "donation" fees are going up the general feeling appears to be the program has not done enough the past 2 years to warrant this kind of increase. Now we want 9+ wins for proof.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

The Gophers will NEVER consistently sell out their stadium. Given the choice between freezing their asses off and watching the game on their big screen TVs at home everyone knows what is going to happen. The Vikings hardly ever sold out when they were playing outside at Met Stadium. And that was in the 1970's when they were one of the best teams in football.

By 'NEVER consistently' do you mean that we won't be able to sell out November games? I might agree with you there (as we couldn't quite sell out the 2013 Wisconsin game, which was cold as hell, and boosted by Badger attendance). We did sell out every game in 2009 (inaugural season at The Bank), but that was no doubt based on the 'new stadium' cachet.

I struggle with the folks who think its a better experience to sit in their home and watch on their big-screen. In my mind, it does not compare to attending live. But I think I'm in a shrinking minority on that way of thinking. I do think we can reasonably strive to sell out consistently in Sept-Oct games.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

watching this play out on GH is pretty interesting.

Many posters have indicated their believe the program has turned the corner after back to back 8 win seasons. Nebraska last year and Michigan this year claimed as signature wins. Those victories have proved enough has been done.

Now that "donation" fees are going up the general feeling appears to be the program has not done enough the past 2 years to warrant this kind of increase. Now we want 9+ wins for proof.

Two solid seasons, a trend does not make... ...but three? Three has me sold that we can compete for a Big Ten title regularly, and that we aren't simply peaking.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

By 'NEVER consistently' do you mean that we won't be able to sell out November games? I might agree with you there (as we couldn't quite sell out the 2013 Wisconsin game, which was cold as hell, and boosted by Badger attendance). We did sell out every game in 2009 (inaugural season at The Bank), but that was no doubt based on the 'new stadium' cachet.

I struggle with the folks who think its a better experience to sit in their home and watch on their big-screen. In my mind, it does not compare to attending live. But I think I'm in a shrinking minority on that way of thinking. I do think we can reasonably strive to sell out consistently in Sept-Oct games.

When it comes to Football, I do believe that watching on TV is significantly better. Basketball and baseball are better live, but the field in football is so big that it's nearly impossible to have a good view unless you're in a prime seat between the 40s and 20 rows up. You have to make a choice between stadium atmosphere and viewing angles and most of the time viewing angles wins out.

NFL games are a no brainer for me. The corporate/ wealthy atmosphere is just boring to me. I still to choose to attend college games because of the atmosphere but I'd much rather watch the Vikings on TV.

But if Gopher football goes the way of Gopher hockey, I'll be attending much fewer games in the future. The Barn is still the best atmosphere in Minnesota with The bank being second in my opinion.

 

[scools12]

Two solid seasons, a trend does not make... ...but three? Three has me sold that we can compete for a Big Ten title regularly, and that we aren't simply peaking.

I'm not disagreeing with the program having completely turned. My point being if I had started a thread indicating as such without the price increase taking place I would have been attacked from everywhere on GH for taking that view.

The price increase is the real issue here not where the program is or isn't after year 4 with Kill.

 

[GopherHomer]

watching this play out on GH is pretty interesting.

Many posters have indicated their believe the program has turned the corner after back to back 8 win seasons. Nebraska last year and Michigan this year claimed as signature wins. Those victories have proved enough has been done.

Now that "donation" fees are going up the general feeling appears to be the program has not done enough the past 2 years to warrant this kind of increase. Now we want 9+ wins for proof.

Agreed. It will be interesting going forward the rift this creates on this message board. I mean there are people calling for Teague's job (I assume they were big Maturi backers who want a nice little, MAC-level program). Personally, I want whatever is best for the program. What's happening right now is natural - it's much easier to loudly complain about this issue than loudly support it...I mean, who is excited about paying more? The fervor will die down, and all we'll be left with is a new sub-set on Gopherhole of Teague haters that become a parody of themselves. If Teague gets the facilities built he will be here as long as he wants

 

[tato2001]

I've heard this logic throughout multiple threads. I don't get the logic that with prices going up, that corporate ticket sales will go up. If corporations aren't buying large quantities of tickets now at cheaper prices, why would they start buying them when the price goes up? I sit in sec. 133 by the students, so I don't really know if the "good" seats are currently filled with corporate tix. I don't get the impression, however, that they are.

I would argue that corporations like to purchase most of their tickets to teams that sell out and have some sort of exclusivity to them. I would imagine it's pretty hard to give away free tickets to a Timberwolves game, for example. (partly because they stink, but also partly because it's so easy to get cheap tickets on your own).

If Norwood prices current season ticket holders out of TCF, and the attendance keeps dropping, getting cheap tickets isn't going to be an issue. That makes tickets less appealing to corporations, as the event is less exclusive, less exciting, and less trendy.

I would assume the corporate tickets would remain about the same, and there are just fewer people buying season tickets in the lower level, as they can't afford them come 2017.

...my guess is this is where indexing to the Vikes comes into play. There are going to be a lot of 'smaller corporate' buyers that are now priced out of the Vikings with $10,000 seat licenses and all. So the pitch will be, "need fall events to take clients to, but Vikes are too expensive? The Gophers are a steal!" ...The sad thing is I think this approach will work, and the tickets will be sold, but you'll see a stadium full of people that couldn't care less about the Gophers. ...Or, if heaven forbid, the Gophers return to mediocrity (or sub-mediocrity), a largely empty stadium. The sadder thing is that if the program is truly on the upswing, this could have been avoided by waiting for a couple more years of success and a slower but longer implementation of price hikes which I think the traditional 'fun' college football fans would have tolerated.

 

[e.bigelow]

By 'NEVER consistently' do you mean that we won't be able to sell out November games? I might agree with you there (as we couldn't quite sell out the 2013 Wisconsin game, which was cold as hell, and boosted by Badger attendance). We did sell out every game in 2009 (inaugural season at The Bank), but that was no doubt based on the 'new stadium' cachet.

I struggle with the folks who think its a better experience to sit in their home and watch on their big-screen. In my mind, it does not compare to attending live. But I think I'm in a shrinking minority on that way of thinking. I do think we can reasonably strive to sell out consistently in Sept-Oct games.

I agree with the bolded statement GBG, but only for college games. NFL games are atrocious to attend the actual game. I could just as well go to a Vikings tailgate lot, party, then watch the game in the nearest bar when I have gone to Vikes games.

But, for college football, the atmosphere is what make the experience in my mind.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

I agree with the bolded statement GBG, but only for college games. NFL games are atrocious to attend the actual game. I could just as well go to a Vikings tailgate lot, party, then watch the game in the nearest bar when I have gone to Vikes games.

But, for college football, the atmosphere is what make the experience in my mind.

Exactly how I feel. Even if it is better to watch the game on TV. The college atmosphere outweighs the better angles on TV. This is not the case for the Vikings. I can't make the same generalization for the rest of the NFL as I've never attended another NFL stadium.