How long before Wenger costs the Gophers a game in 2023?

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The thread started at 7:30 so it was one hour into the game. I don't recall special teams gafs in that time but maybe I missed it.

Overall special teams was very good tonight so the thread certainly didn't age well.
 


They blocked a punt and almost got a touchdown 2 games into the season..
 


MNVCGUY said:
The thread started at 7:30 so it was one hour into the game. I don't recall special teams gafs in that time but maybe I missed it.

Overall special teams was very good tonight so the thread certainly didn't age well.
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  1. Let the first punt of the game bounce and roll for another 15 or 20 yards because they insist on lining their returner up at like 55 yards.
  2. Redding takes another kickoff out of the endzone and is stopped at the 15 which becomes the 7 after a penalty. After last week, I can't believe this happened.
  3. Clearly Tyler and Crooms have juice as returners (along with years of experience), but for some reason they keep Redding back there.
I'll admit STs were a net positive tonight, but the pattern of poor STs play year after year does justify some overreactions from time to time IMO. Hopefully they're trending up, though.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Looked better with different return men. Blocked a punt too. What more do you want?
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Another botched KO return (they didn't have many chances), and after two weeks, the team has a total of 5 penalties and 3 (or 4?) of them have been by Special Teams.

Sorry, hate to vent after a good solid win, but it's been abysmal for a long, Long, LONG time now. The thread wasn't necessarily a reflection of today's game, just a general comment for discussion
 



Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Another botched KO return (they didn't have many chances), and after two weeks, the team has a total of 5 penalties and 3 (or 4?) of them have been by Special Teams.

Sorry, hate to vent after a good solid win, but it's been abysmal for a long, Long, LONG time now. The thread wasn't necessarily a reflection of today's game, just a general comment for discussion
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That’s fair. I agree it’s been the worst part of the team for years. I do like the big legged kicker
 


The one thing that drives me crazy about Wenger is putting our star players on special teams. Several starters consistently play on special teams which is okay but not preferred. However, having Nubin on Kickoff doesn't make any sense.
 

I think Wenger, unfortunately, straddles that line of not being quite bad enough to get Fleck to fire him, but being bad enough that the defense and offense have to work harder to make up for the special teams blunders when they happen.

His ST have been very inconsistent.
 



Taji34 said:
I think Wenger, unfortunately, straddles that line of not being quite bad enough to get Fleck to fire him, but being bad enough that the defense and offense have to work harder to make up for the special teams blunders when they happen.

His ST have been very inconsistent.
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His ST have been consistent….ly below average.
 


Redding needs to be removed from kick return. He was poor last year and again this year. Unless we are fair catching every kick, he should not be playing.
 

He appears to be a Mike Sanford/Robb Smith quality hire.

Grad assistant from PJs WMU days.

The Wash State coach was talking about how he casts a wide net when hiring assistants and likes hiring people he hasn’t previously worked with/know well. He likes that they bring new ideas to the table and challenge his thinking.

Not saying it’s the right approach, just different philosophy.

I do know pj should be very thankful for Joe Rossi
 

Gophers1992 said:
Those who want to see kickoffs returned, do you now understand after these last two weeks why it makes sense to fair catch most kickoffs?
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About 10 years ago (when Mauer was still catching), Jose Mijares gave up a home run that lost the game. He made some comment post game that suggested he didn't like the pitch Mauer had called (don't remember what pitch it was, but for the sake of the example, let's say it was a curveball). Mauer got asked about that comment and he said "yeah, I asked for a curveball, but I didn't ask for it right in the middle of the plate."

I want us to fair catch when appropriate, and also to be able to take returnable kicks and execute returns effectively. If we are fair catching kicks that could be returned well because we have so little faith in our ability to execute, that may be the right decision, but if so, an inability to execute is still a problem because we are passing up opportunities.
 

Complaints from fans about Special Teams are in abundance when they commit faux pas plays. They are joy and momentum killers.

When they make great plays, everyone is happy. Dragan Kesich put the nail in Nebraska's Coffin. He was perfect last night.

The kickoff and the punt return and coverages need to improve. These may cost them a win or two.

Overall, they are average when compared to other Big Ten teams.

PJ Fleck needs to put more energy into some aspects of the ST as he does for other position groups.

.
 
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bleedsmaroonandgold said:
About 10 years ago (when Mauer was still catching), Jose Mijares gave up a home run that lost the game. He made some comment post game that suggested he didn't like the pitch Mauer had called (don't remember what pitch it was, but for the sake of the example, let's say it was a curveball). Mauer got asked about that comment and he said "yeah, I asked for a curveball, but I didn't ask for it right in the middle of the plate."

I want us to fair catch when appropriate, and also to be able to take returnable kicks and execute returns effectively. If we are fair catching kicks that could be returned well because we have so little faith in our ability to execute, that may be the right decision, but if so, an inability to execute is still a problem because we are passing up opportunities.
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You’re not wrong, but I’m pretty sure the math has been done nationwide with a larger sample, and it just doesn’t make sense to return a ton of kicks when you consider injury risk, penalties, risk of fumble, and the odds of even making it to the 25.
 

hungan1 said:
Complaints from fans about Special Teams are in abundance when they commit faux pas plays. They are joy and momentum killers.

When they make great plays, everyone is happy. Dragan Kesich put the nail in Nebraska's Coffin. He was perfect last night.

The kickoff and the punt return and coverages need to improve. These may cost them a win or two.

Overall, they are average when compared to other Big Ten teams.

PJ Fleck needs to put more energy into some aspects of the ST as he does for other position groups.

.
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Agreed on most counts, but honestly they are below average in the ST department under Wenger.

Don't confuse having a good kicker or making some FG with the ST coach knowing what he's doing. Wenger's ability leading the ST for the Gophers does not have a lot to do with whether or not Kesich is a good kicker.
 

SamSquatch said:
Redding needs to be removed from kick return. He was poor last year and again this year. Unless we are fair catching every kick, he should not be playing.
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We will see how serious his injury is from last night. Hoping he is ok, but Crooms was an upgrade.
 

Gophers1992 said:
You’re not wrong, but I’m pretty sure the math has been done nationwide with a larger sample, and it just doesn’t make sense to return a ton of kicks when you consider injury risk, penalties, risk of fumble, and the odds of even making it to the 25.
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Should never take a kick out of the end zone. Period.
 

SamSquatch said:
Redding needs to be removed from kick return. He was poor last year and again this year. Unless we are fair catching every kick, he should not be playing.
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He was replaced later in the game.
 

thor said:
The one thing that drives me crazy about Wenger is putting our star players on special teams. Several starters consistently play on special teams which is okay but not preferred. However, having Nubin on Kickoff doesn't make any sense.
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I think Nubin is the emergency if things go to S up front initially, he is safety valve last line of defense gut.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Agreed on most counts, but honestly they are below average in the ST department under Wenger.

Don't confuse having a good kicker or making some FG with the ST coach knowing what he's doing. Wenger's ability leading the ST for the Gophers does not have a lot to do with whether or not Kesich is a good kicker.
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Not arguing any points you have made but Wegner recruited Kesich, and has brought in some decent players via recruiting.
 


Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Agreed on most counts, but honestly they are below average in the ST department under Wenger.

Don't confuse having a good kicker or making some FG with the ST coach knowing what he's doing. Wenger's ability leading the ST for the Gophers does not have a lot to do with whether or not Kesich is a good kicker.
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There are multiple aspects of special teams.

You look at Iowa's or other Big Ten teams and you will know that the Gophers punt and kickoff returns and punt and kickoff coverages are sub-par. These are correctible problems.
 

hungan1 said:
There are multiple aspects of special teams.

You look at Iowa's or other Big Ten teams and you will know that the Gophers punt and kickoff returns and punt and kickoff coverages are sub-par. These are correctible problems.
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When? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 

hungan1 said:
There are multiple aspects of special teams.

You look at Iowa's or other Big Ten teams and you will know that the Gophers punt and kickoff returns and punt and kickoff coverages are sub-par. These are correctible problems.
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I don’t recall major issues on punt and kick coverage other than the one Nebraska return. I don’t recall it being an issue much in past years either. My gripe with Wenger, and I’m sure Fleck has a hand in this as well, but the super conservative approach. We won’t lose games because of special teams mishaps, but we won’t win any by making plays either. Wenger’s special teams don’t make a lot of massive mistakes, you aren’t going to point to some poor kick returns and be like that is why we lost. It’s nice to see them pressuring punts and returning them more this year, yes the big roughing call against Nebraska was an error, but you’ll get some of those if you choose to pressure. You’ll also get blocks like the one vs EMU.
 

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