How Gophs stack up

[Goldmember]

Packers 3 Super Bowl titles, Vikings ZERO
Super Bowl trophy named after Packer head coach!
Bucks one NBA title, T-Wolves ZERO
Badgers & Marquette recent Final Four and Gophers ZERO legally. Marquette 1977 NCAA Champion!
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Ahhh! diarrhea out of mouth
Blah Blah Blah Blah

Why can't you just be a regular troll? Why do you have to be such a long-winded pointless troll? Note: Just because you're in love with bullet-points doesn't mean you have a point.

Maybe you need to go to troll school or something, because your posts are just awful. Would you feel better about your place in the world and sleep a little easier if, for instance, the superbowl trophy was named after someone else?

 

[GopherGod]

I'm not bragging. And the second part of the sentence is wrong. You've been mislead by the media you consume if you think that is a bad attendance figure. It is in the top THIRD of all D-1 A schools. Only 20 schools drew more than 20,000.

I wouldn't be surprised if Minnesota cracks the Top 20 list for Spring Game attendance in the next few years. That would be amazing when you consider that almost all of the Top 20 have a long tradition of having a huge Spring Game event.

Sure Nebraska and Ohio State put on a freak show. But you've obviously been led to belive that high-attendance for spring scrimmages is the rule. It's not. It's the exception.

Trust me I have not been misled at all, just don't think that 7500 is anything to get excited about for one of the top 3 largest universities in the country. Gophers are right on par with the likes of Iowa State for spring game attendance.

 

[grunkiejr]

Well, until MN wins something, like an outright Big 10 Championship, or goes to BCS Final Four, your logic is wrong.
Iowa and Nebraska also dwarf Minnesota PER CAPITA when it comes to homegrown talent.
Don't forget Northern Iowa in 2007 beat Iowa State who beat Iowa who beat Minnesota. If Iowa only had one DI FB team, they probably beat the Gophers 49 out of 50 times.

What logic would that be? Your original post seemed like you were trying to make a point but whatever your point was isn't obvious. The main thing I said in my post is that looking at the number of NFL players from universities in a given state doesn't tell us anything and I used logic to prove that point.

If you want to rip on the state of Minnesota for not producing talent you need to look at the number of HS players that got drafted. If you want to rip on the Gophers for not having a player drafted then all you have to do is show the U of M versus a data set of colleges rather than showing it by state. However, even if you want to rip on the Gophers for that it is a greater indictment for the lack of talent recruited by Mason than Brewster's ability to develop players--if it was a lack of developing players under Brewster we would have had more seniors starting because they had 2-3 years of Mason & 2 years of Brewster compared to juniors that had 1-2 years of Mason & 2 years of Brewster.

You make even less sense by jumping off on some tangent about winning a BCS title or BCS Final Four (btw please enlighten me what the BCS Final 4 is).

Your other tangent about Iowa talent per capita tells me enough. You're an Iowa fan and a dumb one at that because you still don't seem to understand that programs recruit from outside of their own state. Do you think Nebraska would ever win a national championship on Nebraska talent alone? My best friend is on the Nebraska staff and he tells me they recruit up in Minnesota because Minnesota has more talent than Nebraska--I don't know about per capita differences but I take him for what he tells me.

If you want to get in to an argument about HS talent or anything else I couldn't care less to get in to an argument where nothing can definitively be proven. Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc are not Texas, Florida, Ohio, or even Pennsylvania or Michigan for that matter. Even if Iowa put out better talent per capita it wouldn't make up for the size difference of the two states unless it was a drastic difference and it is not. Twice in the last ten years Minnesota has had the #1 rated recruit in the country (Seantrel Henderson & Joe Mauer) which should end this conversation. Please go back to your Iowa board or make clear logical arguments which to this point you have not shown the ability to do.

 

[grunkiejr]

Good list but I would at this point in time as far as collegiate production in total put Nate Swift slightly ahead of Eric Decker, also for LB you would have to replace Maresh with Jay Foreman, he was a stud at LB in college who had a very solid pro career. I would also put Chris Weinke above Mauer because he actually played at the college level and was a star.

I kept everything 10 years or less. Foreman and Weinke graduated HS well before that time. Swift fit in to that time period but Decker is a better player than Swift. I'm aware of Swift's stats and career but Decker is a legit top 2nd to 3rd round draft pick and Swift was not.

The problem I had was where to fit or whether to include players like Henderson & Gjere that have yet to take a college snap.

 

[grunkiejr]

First, I only went 10 years back so guys like Foreman that graduated HS in the mid-90's were not included. I completely forgot about Birk but I think he would have also been out of the time period. I wanted to use Rosga at S but he went back too far too. I remember Schlecht but I can't remember Robinson, or Archer from your list and Ryan Harris is only vaguely familiar. I think Craig Dahl goes back more than 10 years too. Heck, I think I screwed up with my own 10 year rule because as I recall Hamilton graduated college in about 2000 or 2001.

I put my list together quickly so I was struggling with coming up with OL & DL quickly which is why I had somebody like Gjere on the OL. Gjere is the second highest ranked OL recruit to come out of Minnesota in the last 10 years so it isn't completely unwarranted. If you're going 10 years deep you run in to the problem of where to put 2008 (Maresh) & 2009 players (Henderson & Gjere) that are being ranked on potential versus players that have 4 years of college stats. I don't know the right answer for judging that. Even if we tried to put this together for 1999-2009 in 2013 we would have disagreements but it is that much more imperfect to do it in 2009.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Packers 3 Super Bowl titles, Vikings ZERO
Super Bowl trophy named after Packer head coach!
Bucks one NBA title, T-Wolves ZERO
Badgers & Marquette recent Final Four and Gophers ZERO legally. Marquette 1977 NCAA Champion!
Pro hockey don't have, but Badgers more NCAA puck titles than Gophers (6-5)!
Tubby and Gophs still haven't won an NCAA Tournament game
Never said Wis was Michiga, Fla, etc., but way ahead of Gophers!
Between 1993 to 2007, Badgers 66-42-3 in Big 10 compared to Gophers 38-82.
Badgers FOUR top-10 AP rankings since 1993, while Gophers ZERO top-15 AP rankings since 1993.
Wis much closer to MICH/PSU/OSU than Gophers will ever be.

Gophers beat Alabama in a meaningless bowl that didn't even fill half the stadium, like Alabama cared? Alabama's used to big bowls and will win more national championships before Gophers ever do.

Badgers THREE Rose Bowl victories since 1990. If Gophers even got to one Rose Bowl since 1990, whether won or lost, fans like you will ride that feat for another half century.

Weather? Wisconsin is more into sports than MN, so it won't affect WI fans like MN fans. Your pro football fans can't even beat the first deadline for an indoor playoff game (vs. Eagles).

YES, Minnesotan's are too lackadaisacal to make things happen. Have to improve culture of your H.S. football, then Gophers will get better. Building new stadiums and facilities won't get it done. Even 'Homer' Sid Hartman admits Minnesota ranks last almost every year for producing DI football players in Big 10 states. Maybe that's why the Gophers lead the Big 10 in most last-place finishes since 1980?

NOPE, WI high school football being better than MN high school football doesn't paint the entire picture, but it's a plus on Wisconsin's side.

So you've been a lifelong fan, what is your favorite top-20 accomplishment in last 48 years?
1. Never beating Ohio State (0-11) or Michigan (0-12) at Metrodome. That's O-for-23!
2. 17 consecutive losses to Michigan State from 1977 to 1997.
3. Losing last seven meetings to Nebraska by a combined score of 377-27 for an average 54-4 loss.
4. The 1982 loss to Northwestern that broke a five-year Big 10 losing streak — longest national losing streak in country for conference play! Streak so embarrassing for Northwestern that head coach Denny Green and athletic director Doug Single were going to quit UNTIL GOPHERS LET THEM OFF THE HOOK!
5. Nebraska 84, Minnesota 13 (1983)
6. Oklahoma 63, Minnesota 0 (1986)
7. Probably my favorite, Pacific drops football nine years after beating Gophers 24-20 at Metrodome. (1986)
8. Blow 31-0 homefield lead for eventual 41-37 loss to Ohio State, biggest regular season collapse in NCAA DI history.
9. Colorado 58, Minnesota 0 (1991)
10. Northwestern overcomes 21-point deficit in final 17 minutes for biggest comeback in program history! Wildcats five-of-five in 4th downs that include four touchdowns. (2000)
11. Ohio University first win against Big 10 opponent in 27 years with 23-17 triumph at Metrodome (2001)
12. Visiting Purdue on its three down by three and no time outs in final 19 seconds drives 66 yards in three plays for tying 48-yard field goal. Purdue wins in OT.
13. Blow 24-0 lead in loss to NC State in Micronpc Bowl (2000).
14. 17-point lead in closing 10 minutes vanishes into 38-35 loss to visiting Michigan, costing Gophers trip to Rose Bowl. (2003).
15. Blow 34-24 lead to Wisconsin in final 3:27 at Metrodome. Badgers block punt for winning TD in final 30 seconds. (2005)
16. Blow 38-7 lead to Texas Tech in Insight Bowl. Biggest bowl collapse in NCAA history. (2006)
17. Lose to North Dakota State and Florida Atlantic, programs that only combine 10-year DI existence. (2007)
18. 2008 — Lose five consecutive after 7-1 start. Woes start vs. visiting Northwestern who are minus four starters. Reserve QB rushes Big 10 record 217 yards.
19. All-time Big 10 record in Metrodome 41-66-2 for .376 home winning percentage (1982 thru 2008).
20. Gophers can't penetrate inside 38-yard line in 55-0 loss to Iowa in their last game-ever at Metrodome (2008).

Good luck in the future!

Wow, a list 20 points long about how much strife the Gophers have been through. As if 100% of us weren't aware of those. That is exactly why you are a troll. What reason is there behind posting this other than to get a rise out of every person on here?

Yes, Wisconsin is closer to Mich/OSU/etc than us. Your stadium crowds and recent success has proved that. I (and others) already admitted that. But it is winning that drew that out of you, not the fact that people born in Wisconsin are inherently better sports fans and athletes who demand more from their University, High School, pro franchise, whatever. Your early list in that post only further shows how recent-minded you are in terms of Badger football. Everything began with "since 1990" or "since 1993."

That bowl against Alabama was not "less than half empty." I was there. In fact, Alabama fans cared so much that they filled the entire half of their stadium and then some. And then proceeded to be extremely pissed when they lost that our band played Rocky Top. I'm sure they also cared that their #1 rush defense in the country was trampled by Maroney and Barber. The attendance at that game was 66k.

And do we really need to quibble over hockey titles AGAIN? If 6 v 5 is such a difference, it must really kill you that with ALL your great success in college football, you still only have ZERO national championships. 1 extra title in pro bball with 12 extra years of play? Anyone who can't see the Gopher basketball team is on a monumental upswing in talent and performance is completely blind.

As your replies keep showing, you still aren't interested in having any sort of civilized dialogue here, so I will stop responding after this post. Go ahead and keep telling us how awful our teams are and so on, I'm sure we all care. Oh yeah, and knowing that despite your "dominance" in all things sports, we currently are leading in the Border Battle Cup (with only 4 match-ups to go), and lead total points all time in that 2000-1780 against you since the 04-05 season.

 

[GoldenHerbs]

Congrats, do you want a cookie. Now go away you inbred fudge packer. Obviously Wisconsin is just soooo amazing and better than Minnesota, we get it, now go back in your hole. You are the definition of LAME. Did your girlfriend leave you for a Minnesotan or what. You are real butt hurt about Minnesota to devote this much time talking about us, its quite hilarious. Would I ever go to another teams board and do this, um hell no. Devote more time figuring out how you can move out of your moms basement and less time here. OK?

 

[ulfr]

Are you seriously going to brag about having 7500 people at the spring game, when the schools we are competing against have significantly more. I see somewhat what he is talking about when he talks about the Minnesota Mentality, fans are largely fair-weather here and wait for a team to win first before supporting the team. It happened with the Vikings when all of the games used to be blacked out before 1998, then they started winning and everyone came out, then they had some down years recently and a lot of the fans disappeared again. The same can be said about how no one goes to Timberwolves games currently as well because they are not winning. You can also use as a reference how attendance dropped off during the last few years of the Monson era. Minnesota unfortunately does not have a history of supporting their teams through the bad times, they wait to jump on board the bandwagon. Heck, when was the last time the Gophers even sold out half of their games in a season.

Couldn't agree more. Continually taken aback by the wishy washy alumni base. What is incredible is how weak the attendance rate is for Gopher football is when you consider how many graduates make good money (can afford it) and live within an hour of the stadium. Other mid west teams don't have a metropolitian area comprable to the U's to retain those alumni nearby as potential ticket holders.

First time I watched Gopher fans stream out of the Dome in the final period of a winning effort against the Badgers in '01 I couldn't help but ask 'wtf is wrong with the fans around here?' No satisfactory answer was proffered then or since.


I can't tell you when they last sold out half the games but the last time they sold out for the all of the season was 1963, based on the U's old figure of 56,652 permanent seats in Memorial Stadium. It might happen again in the near future... with or without a big time bowl season {which would lose a bet I made a long long time ago to the contrary}

 

[MRJ]

Couldn't agree more. Continually taken aback by the wishy washy alumni base. What is incredible is how weak the attendance rate is for Gopher football is when you consider how many graduates make good money (can afford it) and live within an hour of the stadium. Other mid west teams don't have a metropolitian area comprable to the U's to retain those alumni nearby as potential ticket holders.

First time I watched Gopher fans stream out of the Dome in the final period of a winning effort against the Badgers in '01 I couldn't help but ask 'wtf is wrong with the fans around here?' No satisfactory answer was proffered then or since.


I can't tell you when they last sold out half the games but the last time they sold out for the all of the season was 1963, based on the U's old figure of 56,652 permanent seats in Memorial Stadium. It might happen again in the near future... with or without a big time bowl season {which would lose a bet I made a long long time ago to the contrary}

Agree that Minnesotans tend to be on the fickle side of things. I'm not sure if this just a mindset thing or not, but it seems to extend to other teams as well, including the Vikings, Timberwolves, and the Twins specifically. Overall, I kind of attribute it to the idea that Minnesotans as a group just don't put the emphasis on the importance of athletics that others do. Maybe that counts as a cultural thing, maybe it doesn't.

But I would argue that this is also a big reason why teams in the state have such a hard time getting approval for construction of new stadiums and facilities. Minnesotans as a group tend to expect results for their dollar, and if a team doesn't show it, they tend to lose interest. That's why the Vikings are in such a bind with their stadium proposal, not that I'm complaining about that!!!

I guess it comes down to the fact that as a group, Minnesotans don't like making investments which they interpret as wasting money. They see other things are more important. Again, not sure if this is a failing or not. But, it certainly does seem to be the prevailing trend.

 

[ulfr]

The only state that has done a good job locking borders is Nebraska, other than of course letting Gale Sayers (Omaha) go to Kansas. Though Nebraska has struggled the last 5 or 6 years its philosophy worked at least three decades prior.

Minnesota could have been like a Nebraska, or even better with bigger population. But Minnesota as a state chooses not to have an "All eggs in the basket football culture" like Nebraska. They'd rather put focus into hockey and build women's hockey arenas, etc. Can I question or judge how Minnesotan's want to live? NOPE! But then don't come bitching at me or the coach when Gopher FB struggles.

If Minnesota had the culture of Nebraska, focussing more on high school and DI football, rather than hockey, Gopher FB would rub shoulders more with contenders. No, they wouldn't contend year-in and year-out with USC, Texas, Florida, Georgia, but they wouldn't be the joke they've been the last 46 years.

I am not so sure that I would trade hockey for football, and even if you would, why does this theory not deter states that produce great basketball players?

How many of the state's hockey players would have ever been decent football material anyway? It takes a very different skill set and body type, [ as I glance over the Bruins roster which happened to be up on the other screen, I'd have to say that with all the different training you could have mustered from childhood many of these kids would have been positively owned in NCAA football, much less in the NFL]


Further I am happy I don't live in Nebraska for reasons that transcend football. The MIAA, the Guthrie, and my season tickets to the orchestra remind me that it is nice to be a Minnesotan for other reasons too, along with lake ice. I don't think I have to move to a backwater state like Nebraska to enjoy quality football experience either...

As for Wisconsin... Brother I lived in Wisconsin in the late '80s so I know the great "BEFORE BARRY" side of the coin. I remember the free-ticket-give-away-with-a-large-pizza-purchase era of Badger football and if anything this counters your points. They rebuilt a football tradition at Wisconsin in a matter of years. Trust me if Brewster gets some of the breaks this year like Barry did, the new stadium will be full for a while. (That being said, Berry never went after USC for a non conference opponent either...)

 

[RodentRampage]

Wisconsin does lead the nation in cannibalism and zoonecrophilia.

 

[GopherGod]

I'm not bragging. And the second part of the sentence is wrong. You've been mislead by the media you consume if you think that is a bad attendance figure. It is in the top THIRD of all D-1 A schools. Only 20 schools drew more than 20,000.

I wouldn't be surprised if Minnesota cracks the Top 20 list for Spring Game attendance in the next few years. That would be amazing when you consider that almost all of the Top 20 have a long tradition of having a huge Spring Game event.

Sure Nebraska and Ohio State put on a freak show. But you've obviously been led to belive that high-attendance for spring scrimmages is the rule. It's not. It's the exception.

Goldmember, you might want to check out the spring game attendance figures for the other major conference schools that we should be competing with.

http://hlog.iowa.com/2009/04/27/gene-chizik-is-clearly-in-a-different-place-the-sec/

 

[Maximus]

Again not a TROLL- Just have done thorough research and KNOW THE FACTS!!

As far as the new outdoor stadium, the cold November night games will put an end to that glamour in a hurry!

Just the facts, ma'am.

---------------------------

According to Mark Rudner, the Big Ten's associate commissioner for television administration, the Big Ten has a long-standing provision in its TV contracts that no November league games will be moved into prime time.

"The only exception to this would be for games played indoors," Rudner wrote in an e-mail. "Minnesota's prime-time game in the Metrodome against Iowa to end the 2008 season appears to be the last such exception with the Golden Gophers now moving to their new open-air football stadium."

 

[gopherguy05]

I love this entertainment brought on quarterly by the famous Bobby Knows. Check out my favorite thread when he claims the Gophers BBall team won't beat Wisconsin mid game this year in Wisconsin:

Kfan Link

And the same topic posted earlier over and over again...

Kfan link 2

And Finally, Mr. DROFDARB from our very own Hole:

DROFDARB

I'm glad I'm not the only person who caught that. I was reading his post, and putotgether the Kiss part and boom, it hit me..thats that idiot Bobby Knows from KFAN...

 

[gopherguy05]

Packers 3 Super Bowl titles, Vikings ZERO
Super Bowl trophy named after Packer head coach!
Bucks one NBA title, T-Wolves ZERO
Badgers & Marquette recent Final Four and Gophers ZERO legally. Marquette 1977 NCAA Champion!
Pro hockey don't have, but Badgers more NCAA puck titles than Gophers (6-5)!
Tubby and Gophs still haven't won an NCAA Tournament game
Never said Wis was Michiga, Fla, etc., but way ahead of Gophers!
Between 1993 to 2007, Badgers 66-42-3 in Big 10 compared to Gophers 38-82.
Badgers FOUR top-10 AP rankings since 1993, while Gophers ZERO top-15 AP rankings since 1993.
Wis much closer to MICH/PSU/OSU than Gophers will ever be.

Gophers beat Alabama in a meaningless bowl that didn't even fill half the stadium, like Alabama cared? Alabama's used to big bowls and will win more national championships before Gophers ever do.

Badgers THREE Rose Bowl victories since 1990. If Gophers even got to one Rose Bowl since 1990, whether won or lost, fans like you will ride that feat for another half century.

Weather? Wisconsin is more into sports than MN, so it won't affect WI fans like MN fans. Your pro football fans can't even beat the first deadline for an indoor playoff game (vs. Eagles).

YES, Minnesotan's are too lackadaisacal to make things happen. Have to improve culture of your H.S. football, then Gophers will get better. Building new stadiums and facilities won't get it done. Even 'Homer' Sid Hartman admits Minnesota ranks last almost every year for producing DI football players in Big 10 states. Maybe that's why the Gophers lead the Big 10 in most last-place finishes since 1980?

NOPE, WI high school football being better than MN high school football doesn't paint the entire picture, but it's a plus on Wisconsin's side.

So you've been a lifelong fan, what is your favorite top-20 accomplishment in last 48 years?
1. Never beating Ohio State (0-11) or Michigan (0-12) at Metrodome. That's O-for-23!
2. 17 consecutive losses to Michigan State from 1977 to 1997.
3. Losing last seven meetings to Nebraska by a combined score of 377-27 for an average 54-4 loss.
4. The 1982 loss to Northwestern that broke a five-year Big 10 losing streak — longest national losing streak in country for conference play! Streak so embarrassing for Northwestern that head coach Denny Green and athletic director Doug Single were going to quit UNTIL GOPHERS LET THEM OFF THE HOOK!
5. Nebraska 84, Minnesota 13 (1983)
6. Oklahoma 63, Minnesota 0 (1986)
7. Probably my favorite, Pacific drops football nine years after beating Gophers 24-20 at Metrodome. (1986)
8. Blow 31-0 homefield lead for eventual 41-37 loss to Ohio State, biggest regular season collapse in NCAA DI history.
9. Colorado 58, Minnesota 0 (1991)
10. Northwestern overcomes 21-point deficit in final 17 minutes for biggest comeback in program history! Wildcats five-of-five in 4th downs that include four touchdowns. (2000)
11. Ohio University first win against Big 10 opponent in 27 years with 23-17 triumph at Metrodome (2001)
12. Visiting Purdue on its three down by three and no time outs in final 19 seconds drives 66 yards in three plays for tying 48-yard field goal. Purdue wins in OT.
13. Blow 24-0 lead in loss to NC State in Micronpc Bowl (2000).
14. 17-point lead in closing 10 minutes vanishes into 38-35 loss to visiting Michigan, costing Gophers trip to Rose Bowl. (2003).
15. Blow 34-24 lead to Wisconsin in final 3:27 at Metrodome. Badgers block punt for winning TD in final 30 seconds. (2005)
16. Blow 38-7 lead to Texas Tech in Insight Bowl. Biggest bowl collapse in NCAA history. (2006)
17. Lose to North Dakota State and Florida Atlantic, programs that only combine 10-year DI existence. (2007)
18. 2008 — Lose five consecutive after 7-1 start. Woes start vs. visiting Northwestern who are minus four starters. Reserve QB rushes Big 10 record 217 yards.
19. All-time Big 10 record in Metrodome 41-66-2 for .376 home winning percentage (1982 thru 2008).
20. Gophers can't penetrate inside 38-yard line in 55-0 loss to Iowa in their last game-ever at Metrodome (2008).

Good luck in the future!

LOL my favorite part is that he basicially copied and pasted himself from the exact list he posted on KFAN like 3 months ago. He probably had it saved on his hard drive waiting for this moment....wow what a sad sad man...

 

[grunkiejr]

Based on your rationale Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, and Kansas should just take their helmets and pads and go home — how did you twist that around? I never said that.

The football atmosphere on the Univ of MN campus is a joke compared to WI, IA, NEB, Missouri & Kansas — even when the Goofs played outdoors in the 1970s and early 1980s. And after the two or three years blow over with TCF Stadium, it will only go back to being a joke, that's if the Gophers will ever make progress?

As far as Alvarez changing the Badgers around, that's because a state like WI eventually does something about it (to make DI FB better). The Gophers don't. Minnesotan's could wait for ever and they don't care.

Where did this hate come up for ME hating Wisconsin? I laugh my ass off when they rip the Gophers because that's what Minnesotan's like you deserve! And I will continue to laugh. Badgers win 12 of last 14 vs. Gophers! HA HA HA. HO HO HO. HE HE HE.

It's you who hates facts and refuses to admit it. Don't kill the messenger. Funny, I don't see big seasons from Gopher hoops, Gopher FB, Vikings, Wild, North Stars, T-Wolves, whatever, at least in last 46 years, and you like to call my email, "stupid." Whatever, good luck to your teams in the future, because they're going nowhere. MN is too lackadaisical to ever be a FB or hoops.

Pride comes before the fall. PRIDE COMES, BEFORE THE FALL.

 

[GopherKISS]

What logic would that be? Your original post seemed like you were trying to make a point but whatever your point was isn't obvious. The main thing I said in my post is that looking at the number of NFL players from universities in a given state doesn't tell us anything and I used logic to prove that point.

If you want to rip on the state of Minnesota for not producing talent you need to look at the number of HS players that got drafted. If you want to rip on the Gophers for not having a player drafted then all you have to do is show the U of M versus a data set of colleges rather than showing it by state. However, even if you want to rip on the Gophers for that it is a greater indictment for the lack of talent recruited by Mason than Brewster's ability to develop players--if it was a lack of developing players under Brewster we would have had more seniors starting because they had 2-3 years of Mason & 2 years of Brewster compared to juniors that had 1-2 years of Mason & 2 years of Brewster.

You make even less sense by jumping off on some tangent about winning a BCS title or BCS Final Four (btw please enlighten me what the BCS Final 4 is).

Your other tangent about Iowa talent per capita tells me enough. You're an Iowa fan and a dumb one at that because you still don't seem to understand that programs recruit from outside of their own state. Do you think Nebraska would ever win a national championship on Nebraska talent alone? My best friend is on the Nebraska staff and he tells me they recruit up in Minnesota because Minnesota has more talent than Nebraska--I don't know about per capita differences but I take him for what he tells me.

If you want to get in to an argument about HS talent or anything else I couldn't care less to get in to an argument where nothing can definitively be proven. Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc are not Texas, Florida, Ohio, or even Pennsylvania or Michigan for that matter. Even if Iowa put out better talent per capita it wouldn't make up for the size difference of the two states unless it was a drastic difference and it is not. Twice in the last ten years Minnesota has had the #1 rated recruit in the country (Seantrel Henderson & Joe Mauer) which should end this conversation. Please go back to your Iowa board or make clear logical arguments which to this point you have not shown the ability to do.

Boy, you just keep selecting what you want to hear OR YOU DON'T READ EVERYTHING!
I said a gazallion times, "OF COURSE Nebraska doesn't win national championship w/o going out-of-state," and the same goes for Iowa having better success than Gophers. But PERCENTAGES, having more in-state numbers to pick from, whether qauntity or percapita, that is an edge or bonus. Plus with football being more important than Minnesota in places like Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, that allows better out-of-state recruits. It's all percentages. Even if small, it comes out big in the long run.

I've also said MN does well in producing select talent, but go to the next tier of players that can give you good DI lineup, WI, IA, NEB are better than MN. And even if you don't believe that, the support financially is better on those campuses than MN.

BCS Final Four, maybe not every year, but many years the secondary game is a buffer just in case the No. 1 team were to get beat in the actual championship game.
Some years if the champion gets beat in the championship game, doesn't mean the team that pulled the upset will be champion.

You keep ripping my statement, but never give me reasons why Gopher football is the last team to participate in the Rose Bowl? They haven't done it for 47 years. There is a reason.

 

[GopherKISS]

I am not so sure that I would trade hockey for football, and even if you would, why does this theory not deter states that produce great basketball players?

How many of the state's hockey players would have ever been decent football material anyway? It takes a very different skill set and body type, [ as I glance over the Bruins roster which happened to be up on the other screen, I'd have to say that with all the different training you could have mustered from childhood many of these kids would have been positively owned in NCAA football, much less in the NFL]


Further I am happy I don't live in Nebraska for reasons that transcend football. The MIAA, the Guthrie, and my season tickets to the orchestra remind me that it is nice to be a Minnesotan for other reasons too, along with lake ice. I don't think I have to move to a backwater state like Nebraska to enjoy quality football experience either...

As for Wisconsin... Brother I lived in Wisconsin in the late '80s so I know the great "BEFORE BARRY" side of the coin. I remember the free-ticket-give-away-with-a-large-pizza-purchase era of Badger football and if anything this counters your points. They rebuilt a football tradition at Wisconsin in a matter of years. Trust me if Brewster gets some of the breaks this year like Barry did, the new stadium will be full for a while. (That being said, Berry never went after USC for a non conference opponent either...)

MN has had some pretty good youth basketball talent. Pretty under rated if you want to know truth. WHY? Because I got facts to back it up.
I can't remember the MN school, but it drove down to North Carolina to take on a private school, which was the King of North Carolina hoops, and the MN school took it to them. They (this NC school) were shocked and didn't like it! This might of been the same school that beat Wisconsin's best, a Milwaukee school about 7 or 8 years back.

Also, Litchfield hoops about five years back, with John Carlson (now of the NFL Seahawks) went to Oregon and beat a Portland school that was ranked No. 1 in the "big class" of Oregon. And Litchfield was not in the big class in Minnesota, but probably would have won the MN big class state tourney that year.

Cole Aldrich, power forward led Kansas to NCAA title in 2008. Bobby Knight said he's "The best power forward in country." Khalid El-Amin, another Gopher get-away, contributed UConn to 1999 national title.

Also, you can argue that Kevin McHale, a basketball player, is probably the most famous athlete in "recent" time from Minnesota. He's rated a top-50 all-time in NBA and contributed to at least three NBA titles with Celtics. There aren't any household names in the NHL from Minnesota like McHale to basketball as no Minnesotan in the last 59 years that has made the top-100 "Hockey News" all-time NHL great list.

Back to Nebraska. As I've always said, "Life is decisions. If you want to be a football factory, be a football factory. If you want to be a "culture capital" and a "hockey state" like Minnesota, then by all means, do so." But that's going to hurt your football, some. Don't care what anybody says.

Also, Wisconsin does have some culture, but in no comparison to Minnesota. Wisconsin is more blue collar, like Nebraska, which migrates more football interest. And if football is more important, odds are you have more success. Not ALWAYS the case, but percentages.
"That's why Lou Holtz once said, "MN could win in football, they (lack of culture) just don't want to. Too many obstacles."
Yes, Wisconsin had its struggles Before Barry, but why is it that WI winds up getting a coach like Barry to turn things around? Why wasn't the scenario being MN getting Barry and having the Gophers win three Rose Bowls in like 10 years? WI doesn't wait 47 years like MN, as MN's streak (no major bowls) continues to grow.

I believe the reason is because Wisconsin is more blue collar. Also, if Barry were to come to MN, odds are some authority or media outlet would blow the whistle on something. Speculation, but the history is there to prove it with another major sport (basketball) like a Mitch Lee rape scandal, Michael Thompson selling tickets, Bobby Jackson academic fraud.

 

[GopherKISS]

Wow, a list 20 points long about how much strife the Gophers have been through. As if 100% of us weren't aware of those. That is exactly why you are a troll. What reason is there behind posting this other than to get a rise out of every person on here?

Yes, Wisconsin is closer to Mich/OSU/etc than us. Your stadium crowds and recent success has proved that. I (and others) already admitted that. But it is winning that drew that out of you, not the fact that people born in Wisconsin are inherently better sports fans and athletes who demand more from their University, High School, pro franchise, whatever. Your early list in that post only further shows how recent-minded you are in terms of Badger football. Everything began with "since 1990" or "since 1993."

That bowl against Alabama was not "less than half empty." I was there. In fact, Alabama fans cared so much that they filled the entire half of their stadium and then some. And then proceeded to be extremely pissed when they lost that our band played Rocky Top. I'm sure they also cared that their #1 rush defense in the country was trampled by Maroney and Barber. The attendance at that game was 66k.

And do we really need to quibble over hockey titles AGAIN? If 6 v 5 is such a difference, it must really kill you that with ALL your great success in college football, you still only have ZERO national championships. 1 extra title in pro bball with 12 extra years of play? Anyone who can't see the Gopher basketball team is on a monumental upswing in talent and performance is completely blind.

As your replies keep showing, you still aren't interested in having any sort of civilized dialogue here, so I will stop responding after this post. Go ahead and keep telling us how awful our teams are and so on, I'm sure we all care. Oh yeah, and knowing that despite your "dominance" in all things sports, we currently are leading in the Border Battle Cup (with only 4 match-ups to go), and lead total points all time in that 2000-1780 against you since the 04-05 season.

If I'm idiot with my FACTS, why did the Gopher coach, ONE OF YOUR OWN, say the same thing? "MN and WI are not the same! Wisconsin puts more eggs into the basket for football, they have better HS football than MN, they have better resources, donations & support. They dropped baseball to put more focus into football. Their youth football also puts lets emphasis into hockey than MN and the UW campus is more football friendly than UM."

I've also known several MN football coaches who have coached in Iowa and Wis, who have told me there is a difference. But before you go barking off, these coaches, the Gopher coach, including myself agree that MN and WI high school football talent are in the same bracket (well behind) if comparing it to Ohio, Texas, California, Florida and the rest of the south. But Wisconsin is a notch above MN. Combine that with Badgers usually getting better out-of-state recruits than MN, the Badgers usually have a better complement of players. This means they're going to have better teams than MN. But the UW campus being more football friendly allows these better recruits to come in than MN.

These are facts that even Mr. "Minnesota" Sid Hartman has repeated over-and-over-and-over. So why are you hammering me?


The 'promo paid' attendance was 66,089 at 2004 Music City Bowl in Nashville, but many of paid ticket buyers didn't go. How come 75% of upper deck was empty? It might have even been 90% empty.

YES, of course Alabama's players showed up, wanted to win, were ticked that they lost. In a sport as tough as football, you can't just wing it with a who cares attitude. CONGRATULATIONS TO THE GOPHERS! But if the bowl would have had bigger implications, Alabama would have played with more zest.

It's possible for anybody to beat anybody on any given night, BUT TO GET TO A MAJOR BOWL and to win it is another story.

As far as winning being the difference why Wis fans are more vocal, I've always wondered what the difference would be if you went back in time pulled the opposite? What would happen if the Vikings won the first two Super Bowls, named the Super Bowl trophy the "Bud Grant" and had an outdoor stadium like Lambeau. And then throw in if the Packers 0-for-4 in Super Bowls, and the Vikings win 3rd Super Bowl title with Brett Favre in 1996.

Would Minnesota fans be more supportive. I believe so, but even if this happened, I've even had the most hardcore Minnesotan's tell me, "Nope, Minnesota will always be laid back Minnesota." This opinion from other true blue Minnesotan's, NOT ME!



Also, I don't go to sleep at night, saying, "Ha Ha, boy people in Minnesota are losers." But it does bug me when your radio or TV shows brainwashes people of your state like "We've (MN) got rich sports tradition, etc., etc." I'm saying win some RECENT major titles or a Rose Bowl or two, then you can brag."

 

[jovs]

MN has had some pretty good youth basketball talent. Pretty under rated if you want to know truth. WHY? Because I got facts to back it up.
I can't remember the MN school, but it drove down to North Carolina to take on a private school, which was the King of North Carolina hoops, and the MN school took it to them. They (this NC school) were shocked and didn't like it! This might of been the same school that beat Wisconsin's best, a Milwaukee school about 7 or 8 years back.

Also, Litchfield hoops about five years back, with John Carlson (now of the NFL Seahawks) went to Oregon and beat a Portland school that was ranked No. 1 in the "big class" of Oregon. And Litchfield was not in the big class in Minnesota, but probably would have won the MN big class state tourney that year.

Cole Aldrich, power forward led Kansas to NCAA title in 2008. Bobby Knight said he's "The best power forward in country." Khalid El-Amin, another Gopher get-away, contributed UConn to 1999 national title.

Also, you can argue that Kevin McHale, a basketball player, is probably the most famous athlete in "recent" time from Minnesota. He's rated a top-50 all-time in NBA and contributed to at least three NBA titles with Celtics. There aren't any household names in the NHL from Minnesota like McHale to basketball as no Minnesotan in the last 59 years that has made the top-100 "Hockey News" all-time NHL great list.

Back to Nebraska. As I've always said, "Life is decisions. If you want to be a football factory, be a football factory. If you want to be a "culture capital" and a "hockey state" like Minnesota, then by all means, do so." But that's going to hurt your football, some. Don't care what anybody says.

Also, Wisconsin does have some culture, but in no comparison to Minnesota. Wisconsin is more blue collar, like Nebraska, which migrates more football interest. And if football is more important, odds are you have more success. Not ALWAYS the case, but percentages.
"That's why Lou Holtz once said, "MN could win in football, they (lack of culture) just don't want to. Too many obstacles."
Yes, Wisconsin had its struggles Before Barry, but why is it that WI winds up getting a coach like Barry to turn things around? Why wasn't the scenario being MN getting Barry and having the Gophers win three Rose Bowls in like 10 years? WI doesn't wait 47 years like MN, as MN's streak (no major bowls) continues to grow.

I believe the reason is because Wisconsin is more blue collar. Also, if Barry were to come to MN, odds are some authority or media outlet would blow the whistle on something. Speculation, but the history is there to prove it with another major sport (basketball) like a Mitch Lee rape scandal, Michael Thompson selling tickets, Bobby Jackson academic fraud.

It will be interesting to see how Wisconsin does in basketball now that they won't get the top Minnesota kids. They have never been the stars but they sure have contributed. Also their position in the Big Ten will probably be impacted and could effect their recruiting on a national scale. Middle of the pack Big Ten may not attract the talent they are used to.

 

[MRJ]

If I'm idiot with my FACTS, why did the Gopher coach, ONE OF YOUR OWN, say the same thing? "MN and WI are not the same! Wisconsin puts more eggs into the basket for football, they have better HS football than MN, they have better resources, donations & support. They dropped baseball to put more focus into football. Their youth football also puts lets emphasis into hockey than MN and the UW campus is more football friendly than UM."

I've also known several MN football coaches who have coached in Iowa and Wis, who have told me there is a difference. But before you go barking off, these coaches, the Gopher coach, including myself agree that MN and WI high school football talent are in the same bracket (well behind) if comparing it to Ohio, Texas, California, Florida and the rest of the south. But Wisconsin is a notch above MN. Combine that with Badgers usually getting better out-of-state recruits than MN, the Badgers usually have a better complement of players. This means they're going to have better teams than MN. But the UW campus being more football friendly allows these better recruits to come in than MN.

These are facts that even Mr. "Minnesota" Sid Hartman has repeated over-and-over-and-over. So why are you hammering me?


The 'promo paid' attendance was 66,089 at 2004 Music City Bowl in Nashville, but many of paid ticket buyers didn't go. How come 75% of upper deck was empty? It might have even been 90% empty.

YES, of course Alabama's players showed up, wanted to win, were ticked that they lost. In a sport as tough as football, you can't just wing it with a who cares attitude. CONGRATULATIONS TO THE GOPHERS! But if the bowl would have had bigger implications, Alabama would have played with more zest.

It's possible for anybody to beat anybody on any given night, BUT TO GET TO A MAJOR BOWL and to win it is another story.

As far as winning being the difference why Wis fans are more vocal, I've always wondered what the difference would be if you went back in time pulled the opposite? What would happen if the Vikings won the first two Super Bowls, named the Super Bowl trophy the "Bud Grant" and had an outdoor stadium like Lambeau. And then throw in if the Packers 0-for-4 in Super Bowls, and the Vikings win 3rd Super Bowl title with Brett Favre in 1996.

Would Minnesota fans be more supportive. I believe so, but even if this happened, I've even had the most hardcore Minnesotan's tell me, "Nope, Minnesota will always be laid back Minnesota." This opinion from other true blue Minnesotan's, NOT ME!

Also, I don't go to sleep at night, saying, "Ha Ha, boy people in Minnesota are losers." But it does bug me when your radio or TV shows brainwashes people of your state like "We've (MN) got rich sports tradition, etc., etc." I'm saying win some RECENT major titles or a Rose Bowl or two, then you can brag."

First, which coach said all of this? I'm curious.

Second, you're making some rambling assumptions here. Based on what? I'm not sure. Alabama would have played with more zest? In the proceeding sentence, you said you can't play football with a who care's attitude. Then you go on to say that Alabama was ticked that they lost, but then imply they would have tried harder to win if the bowl had been bigger. So the fact that they didn't play with more zest implies that they played football with the who care's attitude you just said you can't play with previously and that's why they lost? And then they were ticked that they lost, despite not really trying hard? WTF does this mean?

Third, nobody's been bragging about anything. The only person talking themselves up around here is you. It bugs you when people talk about Minnesota's rich athletic tradition? And what part of that is false? You've gone to great lengths to mention football and basketball as problem areas, but you have systematically avoided the U's achievements in other sports, a trend that has them ranked No. 2 right now in the Director's Cup Standings. In other words, achievements in those sports constitute a "rich athletic tradition" as opposed to not simply because of struggling in football and basketball.

I'm anxiously awaiting your "well, only football and basketball really matter" retort to No. 3.

 

[beatles]

If I'm idiot with my FACTS, why did the Gopher coach, ONE OF YOUR OWN, say the same thing? "MN and WI are not the same! Wisconsin puts more eggs into the basket for football, they have better HS football than MN, they have better resources, donations & support. They dropped baseball to put more focus into football. Their youth football also puts lets emphasis into hockey than MN and the UW campus is more football friendly than UM."

Wrong. They dropped baseball because of Title 9.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

These shots were taken before the game started. As I said, I was there for the game. Were there 32k Gopher fans there? No, but over 60k was reasonable. The entire Alabama side was full, the lower 2 decks of the MN side were very well represented, and the upper (third) deck of the MN side was peppered with both sides' fans.

As to us making a "meaningful" game - we have been passed over by higher tier bowl games several times in the last 9 years.

Why don't we try to get good coaches? You mean like when we went after and got Lou Holtz but he bolted from US? He didn't leave because he couldn't win here, he left because his dream job at Notre Dame opened up.

Whatever.