How good would we be if Nolen didn't get injured


If you watch how this team broke down late in EACH AND EVERY game down the stretch, you're telling me a SENIOR point guard who can at the very minimum run the offense reasonably well, and actually can be a playmaker in the paint as well, and also hit the occasional huge three (like a game winner against the #8 team in the country) wouldn't have been the difference in probably at least 5 of these 9 losses? I struggle to believe otherwise actually, it's quite apparent that lack of guard play completely broke this squad, as lack of execution in the late minutes of a game is usually a blatant sign of insufficient guard play.

And again, I don't care whose fault it is, I'm just saying, that's what is going on right now. Al Nolen's injury was the final straw, as losing Devoe was passable as long as we still had our two senior guards. Even Cobbs would have helped a ton. But unfortunately, we'll be better next year, but we'll probably still see some late game lapses as the guards will still be quite young, unless whoever our JUCO guard that supposedly comes in can be a steadying influence and get the ball in the right places (in the paint) next season.

+1000

It sounds like some quantum leap to say they would have won 6 or so more games with Al but at the end of the day, virtually every one of those losses was within a possession or two.

Does Al make a difference of one or two possessions in each of those games? I think it would be REALLY hard to argue that he does not.

I would argue that every game they lost that was within 4-6 points in the last two minutes, the Gophers would have had a VERY good chance of winning with Al on the floor, either because; (1) the Gophers would have been UP at that point with him playing the whole game, or (2) a Senior PG would have made a difference in those last two minutes.

If the Gophers had lost by double figures in all of those games without Al, then YES, arguing that he would have made a difference in more than 1 or 2 would be unreasonable. But for somebody to argue that he wouldn't have made a difference in almost ALL of the games that were within one or two possessions is just plain naive.
 

With Al Nolen:
Beat North Carolina, West Virginia, and Purdue (4-3 in the BT)

Without Al Nolen:
Lose to Virginia and 9 out of 10 to end the season (2-9 in the BT)

B.S. Al was not 4-3 in the Big Ten. He left the MI game after playing 11 mins with 0 points. Giving him credit for that win takes guts.

NC lost to another team the night after us. Against us Harrison Barnes was like 0-11. If we played them again, right now, with Nolen, we would lose by 15 points. Holiday tournaments mean very little. West Virginia isn't even in the top 25.

Look at the bigger picture. Al has never been over .500 in any season in the Big Ten. The only time we had a stretch over .500 is when he was out last year. We went 9-7 without him.

To even say Al Nolen would make us 6 games better in 12 games is crazy. We lost to WI because Al was scoreless and Taylor had 22. We lost to OSU after the reserves got us back in the game. At the end of the game Al dribbles around and we don't even get a shot. I say we are 9-9 with Nolen and in the tournament. Anything else is a big leap of faith.
 


I know it would be 4th. I didn't say 9th did I? But it sure as heck isn't 12-6 and in the top 15. Or a sweet 16 team. That is taking a lot for granted.
 


Unreal


Nice work downplaying the PR tourney...it's essential to make the logical leaps that you so desperately need to inflate your boy The Quitter. Seeing as almost all non-conference games happen before Christmas, are any of them of value? Only the ones not associated with tournaments? Tell us, when do games start counting in your mind? The Nolen-lead Gophers beat the ACC regular season champs and a potential 4-6 seed on back to back nights. Just because The Quitter was back home toking doesn't mean it was worthless.

We get it. You love The Quitter and hate Al. Please go to the Oregon board and tell them how great they'll be with 3 whole months of Cory's brother next year.
 

If you watch how this team broke down late in EACH AND EVERY game down the stretch, you're telling me a SENIOR point guard who can at the very minimum run the offense reasonably well, and actually can be a playmaker in the paint as well, and also hit the occasional huge three (like a game winner against the #8 team in the country) wouldn't have been the difference in probably at least 5 of these 9 losses? I struggle to believe otherwise actually, it's quite apparent that lack of guard play completely broke this squad, as lack of execution in the late minutes of a game is usually a blatant sign of insufficient guard play.

And again, I don't care whose fault it is, I'm just saying, that's what is going on right now. Al Nolen's injury was the final straw, as losing Devoe was passable as long as we still had our two senior guards. Even Cobbs would have helped a ton. But unfortunately, we'll be better next year, but we'll probably still see some late game lapses as the guards will still be quite young, unless whoever our JUCO guard that supposedly comes in can be a steadying influence and get the ball in the right places (in the paint) next season.

Agree...and let me add with Al, the team is a strong NCAA tourney team. If Devoe had swallowed his pride and stayed, they would have at least made the big dance. I truly do not buy into Tubby's system not preparing them for the pros.

Not sure how next year stacks up. It will be interesting to see if Trevor or RSIII or both try to go pro. Hope Trevor comes back since I believe he will be well served with another year, and Williams definitely needs to come back. He may have the athleticism the pros are looking for but his game is far away right at the moment.
 

I'm asking this here because I didn't want to start a new thread, because I 'm it's been discussed and I just missed it, but is it official that Nolan is done for the year? I know there was talk about him maybe playing in the B10 tourney, but haven't heard anything mentioned in quite a awhile.
 

I'm asking this here because I didn't want to start a new thread, because I 'm it's been discussed and I just missed it, but is it official that Nolan is done for the year? I know there was talk about him maybe playing in the B10 tourney, but haven't heard anything mentioned in quite a awhile.

I think he is, but everyone is craving some sort of hope...if not, he would probably not be an issue.
 



We missed Al, obviously, but I think more about what we could/should have done record-wise without him. We should not have finished 6-12 and in 9th place with the mediocrity that existed in the Big Ten after Ohio State, Purdue and Bucky.
 

We missed Al, obviously, but I think more about what we could/should have done record-wise without him. We should not have finished 6-12 and in 9th place with the mediocrity that existed in the Big Ten after Ohio State, Purdue and Bucky.

With available talent (I think) Gophers left AT LEAST 4 W on the table. With Nolen available, maybe 6 or 7 W.
 

With available talent (I think) Gophers left AT LEAST 4 W on the table. With Nolen available, maybe 6 or 7 W.

Agreed. With Nolen, we would have been a top five team in the Big Ten, if not higher, and would be coasting into the Tourney. With Devoe, we'd be roughly the same. Without them, we should have done better than we did, but it's tough when you've got nobody to bring the ball up.
 

We missed Al, obviously, but I think more about what we could/should have done record-wise without him. We should not have finished 6-12 and in 9th place with the mediocrity that existed in the Big Ten after Ohio State, Purdue and Bucky.

Probably even more frustrating than thinking about the potential WITH Nolen. Just left so much on the table this past month, it's unbelievable. After a while, it just became an issue of confidence late, they just simply weren't trusting/confident in their ability to finish a game. They'd play a relatively strong 35 minutes all things considered, and then just didn't have a guy who either wanted the rock or was capable of doing things with the rock to finish the game off, like Westbrook had done in the past, or like Devoe did for us last year late, or like Nolen was doing at times this year. I think with a fresh start next year, someone will emerge as that person. Just didn't work out this year.
 



For the most part I'd describe this year's Gophers as an emotionless team without a vocal compass (leader). Not a lot of outward fire or attitude. There were times toward the end of the season where it was like I was hoping a player would get really pis*ed off and kick the ball into the stands (metaphorically speaking) or something just so I knew we still had a pulse. More than anything, that's what I'm worried most about next season. Where's the leadership going to come from? When we hit a rough patch, who will grab the team by the nads and say, "This is simply not acceptable." I don't really see that quality in any of our upperclassmen.
 

B.S. Al was not 4-3 in the Big Ten. He left the MI game after playing 11 mins with 0 points. Giving him credit for that win takes guts.

NC lost to another team the night after us. Against us Harrison Barnes was like 0-11. If we played them again, right now, with Nolen, we would lose by 15 points. Holiday tournaments mean very little. West Virginia isn't even in the top 25.

Look at the bigger picture. Al has never been over .500 in any season in the Big Ten. The only time we had a stretch over .500 is when he was out last year. We went 9-7 without him.

To even say Al Nolen would make us 6 games better in 12 games is crazy. We lost to WI because Al was scoreless and Taylor had 22. We lost to OSU after the reserves got us back in the game. At the end of the game Al dribbles around and we don't even get a shot. I say we are 9-9 with Nolen and in the tournament. Anything else is a big leap of faith.

Al Nolen was coming off an injury and wasn't even at full strength against Wisconsin. Did you watch the NC game, or the PR tournament in general? The quickness of Al in that game as compared to Wisky was night and day. I may be wrong, but i remember the announcers saying NC couldn't deal with Al's quickness. Last time i checked, it may be difficult to play at a very high level with a stress fracture in your foot.
 

B.S. Al was not 4-3 in the Big Ten. He left the MI game after playing 11 mins with 0 points. Giving him credit for that win takes guts.

NC lost to another team the night after us. Against us Harrison Barnes was like 0-11. If we played them again, right now, with Nolen, we would lose by 15 points. Holiday tournaments mean very little. West Virginia isn't even in the top 25.

Look at the bigger picture. Al has never been over .500 in any season in the Big Ten. The only time we had a stretch over .500 is when he was out last year. We went 9-7 without him.

To even say Al Nolen would make us 6 games better in 12 games is crazy. We lost to WI because Al was scoreless and Taylor had 22. We lost to OSU after the reserves got us back in the game. At the end of the game Al dribbles around and we don't even get a shot. I say we are 9-9 with Nolen and in the tournament. Anything else is a big leap of faith.

I simply gave you the records of games Al played in, not really sure how that categorizes as B.S. I'm not saying he was the deciding factor or the best player on our team, just showing you that obviously he had to have some sort of impact.

If it really bothers you that much, we can count the Michigan win without him:

With Al
3-3
Without Al
3-9

Not much of a difference.
 

Agreed. With Nolen, we would have been a top five team in the Big Ten, if not higher, and would be coasting into the Tourney. With Devoe, we'd be roughly the same. Without them, we should have done better than we did, but it's tough when you've got nobody to bring the ball up.

Well, since there is no way to know, I'll stick with his body of work in the Big Ten, not in Puerto Rico. That lends itself to 9-9 in Big Ten.
 

We were still ranked with the toughest part of our schedule over. 12-6 is a bit of a reach but 10-8 or even 11-7 aren't.

I know it would be 4th. I didn't say 9th did I? But it sure as heck isn't 12-6 and in the top 15. Or a sweet 16 team. That is taking a lot for granted.
 


Minimum: 4 more Ws with Nolen...perhaps as many as 6.

I am not sure there has been a player in recent Gopher history who meant more to his team (or was more under appreciated) than Al Nolen.

Agree, and had as many unfortunate things happen to him, some avoidable and some not so much.
 




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