How does this run change the way you look at next year?

sidefx182

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Okay, so we all know this recent post-season run by the Gophers has been made at the kids table while the grown-ups just sit back and snicker while drinking brandy and smoking stogies.

Either way, I’m having a hell of a good time watching.

The rodents from the “U” have made an impressive run (@LeSalle, @Miami, @Middle Tennessee State) to earn their first trip to the NIT Final Four since 2003. Say what you want, but a trip to New York and Madison Square Garden, must be pretty damn exciting for these kids.

They also went down in the record books as only the second team in history to win all their NIT games on the road to advance to NYC.

The old argument (that even my buddies and I don’t bother going back in forth with) however, has reared its ugly head. You know the one: about if making a run in the NIT is, in some ways, better than a first round knock out of the NCAA. I can see people making arguments for both sides right now.

To me, it really depends on the team.

This year, for a team like UNC, I would say no. No, because they are an experienced team that doesn’t really have much room for further growth with the players on the roster. They, like all established teams (yes I am saying the Gophers aren’t established) would most likely stick their nose in the air at the NIT.

A young Gophers team however; they accept the invite and put on their best dancing shoes.

The Gophers, unlike UNC, can grow, and have, from a run in the NIT. Now notice I said a run. If they would have been knocked out in the first game against LeSalle, this whole write up would be null and void.

I’ve said it from the minute the Gophers got the invite. “I’d be more impressed if they win the NIT, than I would have been if they lost in the first round of the NCAA.” Some called me stupid, but I beg to differ.

A team currently starting three freshman (Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, Elliott Eliason) needed this. They needed this NIT berth to give them not only confidence, but also tournament experience.

If you have been watching the past three games, they are getting both by the handfuls.

Andre, in my honest opinion, might be the best point guard we have seen at the “U” since Bobby Jackson. Is that a stretch? Maybe, but I don’t think so. The kid is a stud. If not for the games missed earlier this season due to injury, this article might be about the Sweet 16 match up tonight.

Joe is on his way as well. The Hopkins standout showed flashes earlier this year (see PSU game) but seemed to hit a wall late. But, like all great fighters, he has caught his second wind and is running full speed.

Double E is a monster. I could end it there, but I feel this Nebraska big man deserves some love. Since Ralph has gone down, Eliason has been put into the starting five. And, for the most part, hasn’t looked back. Sure he might foul too much, but he is a redshirt freshman. Those things will happen. Other than that, he has been a hardworking, tough nosed kid that might just be the “best big man” Tubby has coached. His words, not mine.

With all that said about the freshman, there is still one man that has really turned it one. His name you ask? Rodney Williams.

RW33 came in his freshman season with a load of hype. He didn’t live up to it. Plan and simple, it seemed like that hype, was a load of manure. In fact, he hasn’t lived up to it until this year, his junior year. It all seemed to click when he was moved to the 4 spot after the season ending injury to Trevor.

Even then, he wasn’t the force he is now.

Rodney has scored over 20 points in the last 5 games and is a new player. A switch has been turned on and I never want to see it turned off. Send me the Xcel bill if need be. I’ll gladly pay it.

He is a leader now. Not just in the way he is playing, but in the way he is talking to his teammates. He is in their face, in a good way, letting them know it’s alright to make mistakes; it’s ok to get knocked down, just keep playing.

All I can say is, if this core is back and Trevor, which he should, gets that sixth year of eligibility; watch out.

The Gophers might just take a seat at the grown-ups table and drink everyone else under it.
 

The old argument (that even my buddies and I don’t bother going back in forth with) however, has reared its ugly head. You know the one: about if making a run in the NIT is, in some ways, better than a first round knock out of the NCAA. I can see people making arguments for both sides right now.

As much as in pains me to say it, this NIT run will do more for experience and psyche than a first-round knock-out in the NCAA. Think of the confidence, extra practice, and game experience that they are gaining.

Start spreading the news!
 

I agree with you. How would you rate winning the NIT? Would it be like making the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four or first round bust?
 

It's below winning a first round Tourny game. What it can do is give players confidence and motivation to work hard and keep improving and give the coaching staff confidence to being this manner of coaching into next year...whether this translates into B1G success remains to be seen.
 

I agree with you. How would you rate winning the NIT? Would it be like making the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four or first round bust?

I'd put it this way. My observation over the years has been that the winner of the NIT is typically a top-20 caliber team when all is said and done. In some cases it's because they were a bubble NCAA team that you could say should have been invited. In other cases, like our rodents, it's a late-blooming team that finds themselves or gets hot at the right time.

So I guess, to answer the question, maybe a round-of-32 caliber team bordering on a Sweet Sixteen caliber upset hopeful. Realistically there's not much difference between Ohio and Xavier on one hand and LaSalle, Miami, Middle Tennessee and Minnesota on the other hand in terms of computer power rating going into the postseason.

Edit: I probably missed the point of the question. Yeah, an NIT run is fun and thrilling in its own way, but playing in the NCAA is a big thrill, a rush. In terms of the fan experience, there's not much comparison. That said, the last couple losses in the Tourney - to Texas and Xavier - haven't been much fun with the way the Gophs played in those games. Watching these last three NIT games has been fun, I have to admit.
 


It's below winning a first round Tourny game. What it can do is give players confidence and motivation to work hard and keep improving and give the coaching staff confidence to being this manner of coaching into next year...whether this translates into B1G success remains to be seen.

See, I don't think I can agree with that. Reason being, is that a lot of teams make the NCAA due to automatic bids due to winning their conference tournament. They could be a HORRIBLE team and still make it. Is their first round loss better than winning a tournament that is filled with good teams? It's not like the NIT is crap. I don't know, think about it this way. If they expanded the NCAA to include 90+ teams or whatever, those teams would be the current NIT teams. If the Gophers were making this same run, but it was in an expanded NCAA field, people would be going NUTS and saying how great it is.
 

They haven't beaten Tourny quality teams so you argument makes little sense...Norfolk State should feel better about one Tourny win than the Gophers NIT run...
 

They haven't beaten Tourny quality teams so you argument makes little sense...Norfolk State should feel better about one Tourny win than the Gophers NIT run...

I don't know, maybe you are right. It just feels to me that if they win the NIT, that is impressive. 5 wins in a row all on the road, in a tournament setting. That is nothing to waive your hand at.

The Gophers haven't and probably won't be favored in any of these games. How is this not impressive? If this Gophers team did this in a mid season/early season tourney, people would be going crazy.

But, it looks like I'm in the minority on this.
 

I pretty much agree with the OP - for a young team like the Gophers (and even more so since their only SR hasn't played), making a run in the NIT will be better in the long run than going to the NCAA and losing in the 1st round.

And I agree about how impressive Dre Hollins has been - he certainly has the potential to be the best PG we've had in a long time. One minor correction, though, is that Bobby Jackson wasn't our PG, he was our SG. Eric Harris was the PG.
 



It's below winning a first round Tourny game. What it can do is give players confidence and motivation to work hard and keep improving and give the coaching staff confidence to being this manner of coaching into next year...whether this translates into B1G success remains to be seen.

Agree. Has it been a nice ride so far? Yes. Have they looked pretty good in a couple of hostile environments? Yes. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. This team still has a long ways to go in terms of proving themselves. Nobody has any idea if this tournament run will ultimately turn into a much better team next year. I would simply advise that folks enjoy the fact that they've won three straight road games in a postseason tournament. In looking forward, I would hope (stressing the word hope) that they channel the energy of the last three games into positive momentum for next year.
 

This has been good to gain experience and confidence, I think Washington is definately a NCAA caliber team. Winning out will be at least the equivalent of a first round win, it doesn't equate to a sweet 16 run though, but remember everybody is back next year and hopefully with a summer of improvement behind them.
 

I pretty much agree with the OP - for a young team like the Gophers (and even more so since their only SR hasn't played), making a run in the NIT will be better in the long run than going to the NCAA and losing in the 1st round.

And I agree about how impressive Dre Hollins has been - he certainly has the potential to be the best PG we've had in a long time. One minor correction, though, is that Bobby Jackson wasn't our PG, he was our SG. Eric Harris was the PG.

Good catch. I should just say guard. I mean, all these PG's and SG's seem to play both positions now.
 

They haven't beaten Tourny quality teams so you argument makes little sense...Norfolk State should feel better about one Tourny win than the Gophers NIT run...

Miami isn't a quality opponent? A team that beat Duke at Cameron indoor and dominated Florida State in February? Miami was 9-7 in the ACC; that's not an NCAA Tourney caliber team? Yes, Miami was down their best player when the Gophers dominated them, but so are we with Mbakwe on the bench. The Gophers ended up in the NIT because they play in the toughest conference in the land; there is no denying that. The B1G accounts for 25% of the Sweet 16 alone. Purdue would of been team #5 if they didn't piss down their leg against Kansas. The NIT is not only showing that the team is meshing, but it's also showing that Gophers are a lot better than a 6-12 conference record. I don't think that an NIT championship is comparable to a NCAA sweet 16, but it's more impressive than a first round knockout. Comparing Norfolk State, who has never made the NCAA Tournament, to the Gopher's situation is a bad comparison. Of course they should be more proud of their Tournament run versus the Gophers' run. They beat a #2 seed! But then got manhandled in the round of 32.
 



I think when we compare NCAA tournament to NIT, we need to think of it on two different fronts: what is better for player development and what is a better season. To me, making the tournament is an unequivocally better season in terms of evaluating the success of this than winning NIT, even if the team loses in the first round. I do think you can argue that our young players are learning more by winning close (except for Miami) elimination games on the round, and there will be more future benefit. It would be like if a football team, after dropping to 4-7 and being eliminated from bowl contention. Then, they go to 4-8 after playing a lot of younger players. Maybe the team would have had a better shot to win with the starters, and 5-7 would be better than 4-8, but there is still value in the future development.
 

I think when we compare NCAA tournament to NIT, we need to think of it on two different fronts: what is better for player development and what is a better season. To me, making the tournament is an unequivocally better season in terms of evaluating the success of this than winning NIT, even if the team loses in the first round. I do think you can argue that our young players are learning more by winning close (except for Miami) elimination games on the round, and there will be more future benefit.
Thanks for saving me a lot of typing
 

This run shows the kids have some talent, now it will up to Tubby and staff to bring them around with some new players (and hopefully Mbakwe) next year. Pressure will be on Tubby to produce! You can't use the "we're really an young team" excuse any longer. What we forget is the top tier teams only have their players for a year or two as well -- but theirs head to the NBA while ours have transferred out. That's why we're always young.
 

This run shows the kids have some talent, now it will up to Tubby and staff to bring them around with some new players (and hopefully Mbakwe) next year. Pressure will be on Tubby to produce! You can't use the "we're really an young team" excuse any longer. What we forget is the top tier teams only have their players for a year or two as well -- but theirs head to the NBA while ours have transferred out. That's why we're always young.

Sure, they transferred out. I thought that our bench strength sucked until the tourney. These young players are showing real moxey and have proven me quite wrong. Good for them. Not everything is explained by the transfers out.
 

The success of the Gophers relies on Tubby knowing how to use his players. I've always wondered what goes on in Tubby's mind when he does his mass substitutions, or how he thinks he'll help the kids' confidence when he pulls them right after making a play (whether good or bad) that goes against Tubby's system. It seems that during this stretch, Tubby is more willing to let the kids actually play to their strengths. And that is why we see Dre do his stuff. If Tubby is changing his method, then great. But I'm sure he'll just revert back to his old self. The freshmen this year are very promising though. I would pick EE any day over RSIII, Coleman will improve, Austin isn't afraid to stroke it. Dre is a beast and will be the face of the program. And if Trevor is granted another year, he along with Rodney will lead the team. Can't help but think next year looks bright right now.
 

I'd rather lose by 100 in the First Four of the NCAA tournament than win the NIT.

That said, I'd rather win the NIT than lose in the first round of the NIT.
 

There's so many ways to look at it.

Example 1:
Would you rather go 9-9 in the Big Ten and lose in the 1st round of the tourney or
go 6-12 in the Big Ten and win the NIT?

Example 2:
Would you rather go 9-9 in the Big Ten, be the last team into the Tourney but get blown out by 20 or
go 9-9 in the Big Ten, be one of the last teams out of the tourney, and win the NIT?

In example 1, I'd take 9-9 and a tourney loss for sure because we would have been more successful in the Big Ten. In example 2, I could most definitely make an argument for the NIT. This year, for example, a team like California probably would have gotten more out of winning the NIT than how they performed in the 1st round.
 

Anyone trying to convince themselves winning the NIT is in anyway comparable to making a run in the NCAA or even making the NCAA are fooling themselves.

The team deserves credit for their win at MTSU. That was a team and a home crowd that cared. I don't think all that much credit is deserved for the win over Miami. Miami's effort and the lack of attendance at the game showed how little they cared about even playing the game and it also tells a lot about a team that was considered a NCAA tourney team and their motivation about playing in the NIT when not selected for the real tourney.
 




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