How do you feel about the state of program right now?

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howeda7 said:
I believe Payne and Garcia will dominate Mike Hall and Rick Pizzo in BTN play. Those guys are chumps.
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However, Robbie Hummel, Bardo, and Jess Settles are gonna be tough. Don't like our chances there.
 

USAF said:
However, Robbie Hummel, Bardo, and Jess Settles are gonna be tough. Don't like our chances there.
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I hope Jack Wilson breaks Jess Settles in half. Hate that guy. Robbie Hummel might score 50 on us sadly.
 


SplitDecision said:
*MN talent is adequate to be competitive in the BTN, and improving yearly.
*CBJ is not over his head, and after the next meaningful win everyone will be happy.
*Back court ball handling issues will be cleaned up, despite opposition seeing tape.
*Shooting woes will take care of themselves, with proper ball movement, cutting.
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1- No it isn't. If it is, then San Fran would be a top 3 team in conference, they out-talented us by a lot, would they be tops of the Big Ten?
2-Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but he hasn't shown us much if any positive yet
3-Not sure about this, Bens teams have always had bad guard play, especially defensively
4-Maybe. Lots of bad shots though, again mainly from guards or guards not controlling the offense
 


When Ben says ‘in league’. Is he referring to what happens in the NBA? Example ‘in league they are always pushing the ball up the court.’
 

leib0039 said:
I dont even know where to start with this one. This has to be a CBJ burner account right?? 🤣🤣
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I can assure you, no. Long-time fan going back to Barn sitting behind a post in '76-77 w/McHale, Flip, Ray Williams, Mychal T vs Earvin Johnson, Jay Vincent, Gregory Kelser. The best of days.
 

Many times I think 3 years is too short to make a move, but not here.

When you are battling to stay top 150 in Kenpom in year 3, you clearly are not cut out for the job.

BJ scheduled cowardly as well to try and pad wins and even that isnt working by losing the only two games against teams with a pulse. Nothing to look forward to when a bunch of games are against 250+ trash and any game not vs them the team has little to no chance to win.

Cut losses before you get in too deep. Hope for yet another quick rebuild with someone else.
 





howeda7 said:
NIL $ is an issue for ascending to the top two or three spots in the B1G and competing for titles year in year out. We're not asking for that. We're asking for basic competence, to not be one of the worst teams in Power 6, and to make the NCAA tournament maybe half the time. The bar is low and we continue to somehow hit our face on it.
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+1

If you can't match or beat the success of the mid tier schools now, then I don't for a second believe that more $$$ alone would make you a contender with the better resourced schools.
 


Go Gophs said:
1- No it isn't. If it is, then San Fran would be a top 3 team in conference, they out-talented us by a lot, would they be tops of the Big Ten?
2-Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but he hasn't shown us much if any positive yet
3-Not sure about this, Bens teams have always had bad guard play, especially defensively
4-Maybe. Lots of bad shots though, again mainly from guards or guards not controlling the offense
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SF will be a top 3 team in their conference maybe behind Gonzaga and St. Mary's. I don't think one can really judge a coach before his own team of recruits takes the floor. Otherwise, you are looking at patchwork roster addn's, which is the main reason MN guards haven't taken care of the basketball and get sped up by competent team defenses, taking 'bad' shots. All these ills are connected, and will correct as rapidly as they appeared. Taking care of the ball=more time per possession=more ball movement/cuts/screens=better shot selection=more makes.
 



SplitDecision said:
SF will be a top 3 team in their conference maybe behind Gonzaga and St. Mary's. I don't think one can really judge a coach before his own team of recruits takes the floor. Otherwise, you are looking at patchwork roster addn's, which is the main reason MN guards haven't taken care of the basketball and get sped up by competent team defenses, taking 'bad' shots. All these ills are connected, and will correct as rapidly as they appeared. Taking care of the ball=more time per possession=more ball movement/cuts/screens=better shot selection=more makes.
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Well you certainly don't like actual stats then.

Hawkins career 5.4 TO/40, 5.4 TO/40 this year 5.7 TO/40.

Mitchell 3.5. 3.5. 3.9 TO per 40 min.

Our 2 PG are turnover machines. 2.5 years of data prove that. Just stop with this "well the old ball coach needs time with these youngsters to get the offense set" this isn't 1975 like you remember ha. USF played freshman and transfers guards as did Mizzou as does every single other school. It's 2023 THATS WHAT HAPPENS. Kansas is one if if not the best teams in the country, they play 2 transfers and 2 freshman in their top 6, seems to be ok. Mostly because they have a great coach and we seem to have one that is more suited for NAIA than D1.
 

SplitDecision said:
Jeez, talk about a bunch of Negative Nellies. As disappointing as the SF loss was, it was merely a road non-conference loss to a very good team. Gophers looked terrible on both ends of the floor. The turnovers were completely ridiculous, and off-ball defense non-existent. OK get it out of your system. Its very early in the season, and there are reasons MN looked terrible that we don't know about. The season is just starting, and consistency is lacking. Mizzou loss was NOT CBJ issue, that was a player loss. Every team has BAD nights. That said,
*MN talent is adequate to be competitive in the BTN, and improving yearly.
*CBJ is not over his head, and after the next meaningful win everyone will be happy.
*Back court ball handling issues will be cleaned up, despite opposition seeing tape.
*Shooting woes will take care of themselves, with proper ball movement, cutting.
*This team will have an identity in two weeks, and roles will be defined more clearly. Best TV broadcast every was MN/OSU mic'd coach game last year where CBJ (in game) outcoached Chris Holtmann-("Let's go-right now. OK-right now, play hard-right now... right now, right now.."). You can talk all you want about MN Admin. not caring, CBJ over his head, etc., but the biggest issue in Gopher sports is the stubborn defiance against NIL money and the late start gopherhole they put themselves in. Anyway,

Two scenarios: MN will straighten things out vs. New Orleans, lose close at OSU, and beat NEB at home going 1-1 prior to 4 cupcake wins, and BTN play in Jan. We already know Jan. will be rough and MN likely win 2 games before a 4 win Feb. (CJB contract extended), and 3 win Mar. or...

MN claws into BTN play after 0-2 Dec. start, and struggles to win 4-5 BTN games, followed by a portal exodus, CBJ release and a complete rebuild, or maybe dropping basketball as a sport in favor of field hockey. I'll go with #1 option above and not fall into MN depression this early.
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Interesting you refer to the Ohio State game from last year.....a certain local media person told us all how little we knew about basketball when she watched the telecast and how impressive a coach our guy was in the huddles, etc. Well fast forward to this year when Holtmann has his team as a fringe top 25 caliber team and well, we do not. I wonder if she still feels that way.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Many times I think 3 years is too short to make a move, but not here.

When you are battling to stay top 150 in Kenpom in year 3, you clearly are not cut out for the job.

BJ scheduled cowardly as well to try and pad wins and even that isnt working by losing the only two games against teams with a pulse. Nothing to look forward to when a bunch of games are against 250+ trash and any game not vs them the team has little to no chance to win.

Cut losses before you get in too deep. Hope for yet another quick rebuild with someone else.
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Nope! Johnson was dealt a rough hand the first two years, with mass exodus when Pitino was fired and the frontline injuries last year. But this year he has a full squad and mainly his guys, so let’s see how the year goes. It is a make or break time.
 

leib0039 said:
Well you certainly don't like actual stats then.

Hawkins career 5.4 TO/40, 5.4 TO/40 this year 5.7 TO/40.

Mitchell 3.5. 3.5. 3.9 TO per 40 min.

Our 2 PG are turnover machines. 2.5 years of data prove that. Just stop with this "well the old ball coach needs time with these youngsters to get the offense set" this isn't 1975 like you remember ha. USF played freshman and transfers guards as did Mizzou as does every single other school. It's 2023 THATS WHAT HAPPENS. Kansas is one if if not the best teams in the country, they play 2 transfers and 2 freshman in their top 6, seems to be ok. Mostly because they have a great coach and we seem to have one that is more suited for NAIA than D1.
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I totally get that other teams have transfers and freshmen, but they are better transfers and better freshmen. Those same teams had multiple top recruits from 247/ESPN rankings, and the portal transfers were top notch.
If MN gets one guy in top 100 per year of late we are lucky. Coffey, Oturu, and now Christie. Those guys are developmental players as well. Asuma is assumed to be a good ball handler, so we'll see. I just am not ready to get my pitchfork like so many.
 

golfing18now said:
Interesting you refer to the Ohio State game from last year.....a certain local media person told us all how little we knew about basketball when she watched the telecast and how impressive a coach our guy was in the huddles, etc. Well fast forward to this year when Holtmann has his team as a fringe top 25 caliber team and well, we do not. I wonder if she still feels that way.
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Haven’t heard that story. Who was the media person?
 

SplitDecision said:
I totally get that other teams have transfers and freshmen, but they are better transfers and better freshmen. Those same teams had multiple top recruits from 247/ESPN rankings, and the portal transfers were top notch.
If MN gets one guy in top 100 per year of late we are lucky. Coffey, Oturu, and now Christie. Those guys are developmental players as well. Asuma is assumed to be a good ball handler, so we'll see. I just am not ready to get my pitchfork like so many.
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Do you think other teams get better players because of the school or the coach at the school?
 

SplitDecision said:
SF will be a top 3 team in their conference maybe behind Gonzaga and St. Mary's. I don't think one can really judge a coach before his own team of recruits takes the floor. Otherwise, you are looking at patchwork roster addn's, which is the main reason MN guards haven't taken care of the basketball and get sped up by competent team defenses, taking 'bad' shots. All these ills are connected, and will correct as rapidly as they appeared. Taking care of the ball=more time per possession=more ball movement/cuts/screens=better shot selection=more makes.
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THIS HAS BEEN A TEAM OF BENS RECRUITS SINCE DAY 1..
 

GopherBlood777 said:
Do you think other teams get better players because of the school or the coach at the school?
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Well, the simple answer is the school that gives the player the best chance to get to the NBA. Usually players follow the coach, and the school to a lesser degree. Look at Smart at Marquette. He got some nice portal help and recruits. The style of play seems to be important. Caleb Love went from NC to AZ after finding out that Hubert Davis wants guys to pass the ball and not try to stuff the stat sheet with isolation plays. Marcus Carr same type of player. I think MN needs guys that are selfless, play 100% team defense, and have situational skillsets that can be developed over 3-4 years. Is CBJ that guy remains to be seen.
 

SplitDecision said:
Well, the simple answer is the school that gives the player the best chance to get to the NBA. Usually players follow the coach, and the school to a lesser degree. Look at Smart at Marquette. He got some nice portal help and recruits. The style of play seems to be important. Caleb Love went from NC to AZ after finding out that Hubert Davis wants guys to pass the ball and not try to stuff the stat sheet with isolation plays. Marcus Carr same type of player. I think MN needs guys that are selfless, play 100% team defense, and have situational skillsets that can be developed over 3-4 years. Is CBJ that guy remains to be seen.
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While CBJ would agree with that, it is not how he has actually built his roster. He’s been completely dependent on new transfer guards every year. It took him three years to recruit a point guard out of high school, which should be a fireable offense in of itself - how do you tout a developmental program and fail to groom a lead guard.
 


atsgopher said:
I think Nadine. Seem to recall her saying that, and agreeing he seemed far better in the huddle.
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I remember that mic’d game, and I tend to agree with her. I thought BJ had specific instructions he was trying to impart whereas CH was a bit more vaguely rah-rah. Don’t remember the outcome. I presume we lost.
 


FWIW - was listening to a Skor North Podcast with Reusse. Reusse said that he had heard a story from "reliable sources." supposedly, Coyle wanted to hire Brian Dutcher while the U President wanted Johnson. Dutcher was approached but his season had just ended, so he said he would need time to go home, think about it and talk to his family. according to Reusse's sources, the President didn't want to wait for Dutcher to make up his mind, and told Coyle to hire Johnson.

believe it if you want to - but it does sound plausible.
 

BTW - in the "things could be worse" department - I was watching a HS Girls Basketball game tonight on Hudl. Halftime score was 54-4. game wound up 88-27. another game in my area finished up 62-13.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
BTW - in the "things could be worse" department - I was watching a HS Girls Basketball game tonight on Hudl. Halftime score was 54-4. game wound up 88-27. another game in my area finished up 62-13.
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NIL disparities? (I'm kidding...mostly.)
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - was listening to a Skor North Podcast with Reusse. Reusse said that he had heard a story from "reliable sources." supposedly, Coyle wanted to hire Brian Dutcher while the U President wanted Johnson. Dutcher was approached but his season had just ended, so he said he would need time to go home, think about it and talk to his family. according to Reusse's sources, the President didn't want to wait for Dutcher to make up his mind, and told Coyle to hire Johnson.

believe it if you want to - but it does sound plausible.
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Reusse is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest, but he's not a liar, and he has good sources.
 

GoodasGold said:
I remember that mic’d game, and I tend to agree with her. I thought BJ had specific instructions he was trying to impart whereas CH was a bit more vaguely rah-rah. Don’t remember the outcome. I presume we lost.
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We won and my memory is the same as yours. Ben coached and the other guy cheered with vague instructions.
 

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