How bare is the cupboard?

[TAW]

I frequently read here that the new coach will have more to work with than Brewster did when he came on. As an outsider, I don't understand this. Mason's teams were always competitive and, since his firing was fairly sudden, it isn't like he quit recruiting. Brewster, on the other hand, had a dismal record and one would think this would affect recruiting as the end drew near.

Did Brewster really have nothing to work with or did Mason's players just not fit in with whatever the offense du jour that Brewster was implementing?

To me, it seems like Brewster walked into a fair-to-middling operation and sunk it. The new coach will have to rebuild bridges with the fans, build cohesiveness on the team, and try to make friends with the pirannahs masquerading as journalists in the TC. Brewster only had the last of these to deal with.

 

[Plinnius]

I frequently read here that the new coach will have more to work with than Brewster did when he came on. As an outsider, I don't understand this. Mason's teams were always competitive and, since his firing was fairly sudden, it isn't like he quit recruiting. Brewster, on the other hand, had a dismal record and one would think this would affect recruiting as the end drew near.

Did Brewster really have nothing to work with or did Mason's players just not fit in with whatever the offense du jour that Brewster was implementing?

Look at what's left over from the 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes. How would you appraise those classes? Those two classes should form the backbone of our current team, just like the 2007 and 2008 recruiting classes should form the backbone of the 2011 team, the 2008 and 2009 classes the backbone of the 2012 team, etc.

 

[EG#9]

Mason't teams were not alway competitive as we were usually below .500 in conference play during his tenure. His final season at Minnesota, the Gophers were 0-5 in the conference before defeating Indiana (coach passed away), Michigan State (program was a mess/fired coach), and Iowa (Drew Tate was battling the entire state). This was a team that needed a blocked FG to beat North Dakota State 10-9.

The '04, '05, '06, and '07 recruting classes were all terrible and ranked no higher than 9th by any recruiting service. The best players in the '05 class (Jones, Daniels) were kicked out of school. The cupboard could not have been any more bare. Mason knew the cupboard was bare as he went after a number fo JUCO's for his '07 class which was an unusual step for him.

Compare these classes to the '08 and '09 classes that the new coach will inherit as upper classmen. These classes were both ranked middle of the pack in the Big Ten (as high as 4th) and feature numerous players with offers from big time schools. The '10 and and '11 classes are certainly a concern as they are much more on par with what we've seen from Mason. That's why I hope whoever we hire can make a few quality additions to the '11 class, so we don't have two subpar classes in a row.

The new coach will be in a much better position to succeed than Tim Brewster was from a talent on hand standpoint.

 

[Shielder]

The new coach will be in a much better position to succeed than Tim Brewster was from a talent on hand standpoint.


I agree EG#9

 

[gophervet]

I hope we get a good coach because I really want to see what some of these guys can be. Carter, Hageman, Cooper, Reeves, KGM, etc. All of those guys could really fluorish with the right coaching. Hell, Lair and McKnight could become superstars with the right coaching.

 

[frozengopher]

To me, it seems like Brewster walked into a fair-to-middling operation and sunk it. The new coach will have to rebuild bridges with the fans, build cohesiveness on the team, and try to make friends with the pirannahs masquerading as journalists in the TC. Brewster only had the last of these to deal with.

I would argue that we went from fair to middling in 2003 and shot like a rocket to hell ever since. Brewster did not single handedly destroy this team. A mix of bumbling board room management and smarmy self assuredness on the parts of Maturi and Mason lit the fuse, Brew just exacerbated the process. He did some things right along the way in his defense, as well (grad rates, high school connections, recruiting maybe). We really don't know how bad the cohesiveness is on this team really is, either. They did get a win in November under pretty dire circumstances. Hopefully Kaler and whoever ends up being the new AD and coach can change that perspective.

 

[emann]

I agree with EG#9.

Mason deserves credit for rising the program out of the ashes and advancing it forward, but the team during his last year was one of his worst. Some of Brewster's first year struggles no doubt had to do with Brewster's coaching, but they also didn't have much in terms of talent.

I would think that this current team has more talent than when Mason came in.

Of those graduating, you're losing some good offensive linemen and also Weber, Jon Hoese, Kim Royston, Kyle Theret and Ryan Collado. You still have a dual-threat QB (Gray), your leading receiver (McKnight), three running backs (Eskridge, Bennett, Edwards), starting TE (Lair) and all of your front seven on defense. This team is pretty young and could surprise people with the right coaching staff, and also some lucky breaks.

I am still concerned about the defensive backfield for next year.

 

[calminnfan]

Mason't teams were not alway competitive as we were usually below .500 in conference play during his tenure. His final season at Minnesota, the Gophers were 0-5 in the conference before defeating Indiana (coach passed away), Michigan State (program was a mess/fired coach), and Iowa (Drew Tate was battling the entire state). This was a team that needed a blocked FG to beat North Dakota State 10-9.

The '04, '05, '06, and '07 recruting classes were all terrible and ranked no higher than 9th by any recruiting service. The best players in the '05 class (Jones, Daniels) were kicked out of school. The cupboard could not have been any more bare. Mason knew the cupboard was bare as he went after a number fo JUCO's for his '07 class which was an unusual step for him.

Compare these classes to the '08 and '09 classes that the new coach will inherit as upper classmen. These classes were both ranked middle of the pack in the Big Ten (as high as 4th) and feature numerous players with offers from big time schools. The '10 and and '11 classes are certainly a concern as they are much more on par with what we've seen from Mason. That's why I hope whoever we hire can make a few quality additions to the '11 class, so we don't have two subpar classes in a row.

The new coach will be in a much better position to succeed than Tim Brewster was from a talent on hand standpoint.

agreed not to mention the top running backs that were counted on being here bailed on school (Russell) or went to the draft. Cupboard was truly bare and really did lack athleticism.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

I agree with EG#9.

Mason deserves credit for rising the program out of the ashes and advancing it forward, but the team during his last year was one of his worst. Some of Brewster's first year struggles no doubt had to do with Brewster's coaching, but they also didn't have much in terms of talent.

I would think that this current team has more talent than when Mason came in.

Of those graduating, you're losing some good offensive linemen and also Weber, Jon Hoese, Kim Royston, Kyle Theret and Ryan Collado. You still have a dual-threat QB (Gray), your leading receiver (McKnight), three running backs (Eskridge, Bennett, Edwards), starting TE (Lair) and all of your front seven on defense. This team is pretty young and could surprise people with the right coaching staff, and also some lucky breaks.

I am still concerned about the defensive backfield for next year.

I think our secondary will be fine next year...well, Gopher fine anyways. Move Cooper back to SS, Carter and Stoudimire at the corner and Lewis still starting at FS...i don't see this as a disaster...

 

[tpbeight]

Lewis at FS? If he's in the starting line-up, we're still bad. Get James Manuel on the field at SS next year and that will be an upgrade over anything Cooper would bring to that spot. Cooper is an OLB. It's not realistic to expect him to slide back to SS and be an effective player. Maybe if he were a freshman, but not now.

 

[gophmeister]

The bulk of Brewster's recruits are in the 2009 and 2010 class, most of whom were redshirted. The class of 2007 was a mess and the class of 2008 was heavy on Jucos and a lot of guys were not red shirted, which is sad. There are some young guys with a lot of potential. They just need some time and coaching. I'm not saying they'll be champions, but they won't be chomps in a few years.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

I think our secondary will be fine next year...well, Gopher fine anyways. Move Cooper back to SS, Carter and Stoudimire at the corner and Lewis still starting at FS...i don't see this as a disaster...

A good defensive line can always hide a suspect secondary. They need to develop a pass rush.

 

[GreasyGopher]

The defense should be fine next year with each player at their current position. The one thing that I would like to see from some of the DL and even the OL is to lose about 10-15 lbs to improve their quickness. This is mainly for the DTs as many of the DEs need to gain 10-15 lbs. The other stuff (losing contain, etc.) should be taken care of with good coaching.

One thing to look for in spring ball is how players react to a new eye evaluating their talent. Guys that were prominent players might not see as much time next year. How will that affect each player? Will players transfer because of it?

 

[imthewalrus]

One would need to conclude that the talent level left here suffers from the brewball fantasy hype factor. The other factor will be what kind of offense the new coach runs and what kind of defense is brought in.

TAW, the spin factor has been entirely too much in play for too long here. I honestly don't think anyone has a very good idea of just what can be done with the untested "talent" that brewster recruited. I could hope that the players will be coachable and will be open books for the new coach and his staff, but, I fear that these players have experienced SO much instability within the coaching ranks under brewster that I hope the new coach will take this into consideration when installing his new system.

I don't feel really confident about anything related to brewster. And, the "brew-crew" gang around here really tends to sling the talent level stuff about how much talent was left for brewster and how much talent was left by brewster.

Time will tell. You will be able to see what our talent level is by comparing the number of Big Ten wins to the Big Ten losses in 2011. Certainly, the new coach will have to assess all the talent he will have at his disposal and will need to take that into consideration as he decides what kind of offensive schemes and defensive schemes he will run in 2011.

The new coach will need a lot of experience in putting together a team based upon what he has to work with when he gets here. My guess is that he will need to keep things extremely simple and not too complex as he installs his new systems. He must also consider the fact that this group of players has had extreme coaching turn-over the entire time they have been in this program. I believe it will be essential for the coach to keep things much the same in terms of the offense and defense that he runs in 2011. You can totally blow young players out of the water by totally changing things up on them every single year.

I think the new coach will need to understand the damage that constant change and chaos and trama have created with all of the coaching changes that have occurred over the course of the last four years. The constant change of coordinators and assistants certainly has taken a terrible tole on the development of all of these young players.

 

[60's Guy]

Help Wanted

One would need to conclude that the talent level left here suffers from the brewball fantasy hype factor. The other factor will be what kind of offense the new coach runs and what kind of defense is brought in.

TAW, the spin factor has been entirely too much in play for too long here. I honestly don't think anyone has a very good idea of just what can be done with the untested "talent" that brewster recruited. I could hope that the players will be coachable and will be open books for the new coach and his staff, but, I fear that these players have experienced SO much instability within the coaching ranks under brewster that I hope the new coach will take this into consideration when installing his new system.

I don't feel really confident about anything related to brewster. And, the "brew-crew" gang around here really tends to sling the talent level stuff about how much talent was left for brewster and how much talent was left by brewster.

Time will tell. You will be able to see what our talent level is by comparing the number of Big Ten wins to the Big Ten losses in 2011. Certainly, the new coach will have to assess all the talent he will have at his disposal and will need to take that into consideration as he decides what kind of offensive schemes and defensive schemes he will run in 2011.

The new coach will need a lot of experience in putting together a team based upon what he has to work with when he gets here. My guess is that he will need to keep things extremely simple and not too complex as he installs his new systems. He must also consider the fact that this group of players has had extreme coaching turn-over the entire time they have been in this program. I believe it will be essential for the coach to keep things much the same in terms of the offense and defense that he runs in 2011. You can totally blow young players out of the water by totally changing things up on them every single year.

I think the new coach will need to understand the damage that constant change and chaos and trama have created with all of the coaching changes that have occurred over the course of the last four years. The constant change of coordinators and assistants certainly has taken a terrible tole on the development of all of these young players.

Help Wanted: Code breaker desired to decipher coded message into English. I believe the writer is saying we need to be sure the new coach keeps things the same or "the boys" feelings may be hurt. I must be wrong though because then he'd really be saying Brewster should still be coaching and I think I've heard he really didn't want that. I'm sorry. I'm confused. Help wanted, volunteer position only.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I think our secondary will be fine next year...well, Gopher fine anyways. Move Cooper back to SS, Carter and Stoudimire at the corner and Lewis still starting at FS...i don't see this as a disaster...

If Chrystn Lewis is starting, that is a disaster.

 

[Ski U Master]

Of Brewster's 4-star recruits:
The Good
Keanon Cooper - Solid player (2008)
MarQueis Gray - Turning into a good reciever, hard to say if he will be able to handle full time QB role without seeing more game time. (2008)
Brandon Green - Decent WR, hopefully can come back from injury. (2008)
Traye Simmons - Good contributor, maybe a little overrated. (2008)
Michael Carter - Pretty solid. (2009)

The Bad
Vincent Hill - Never made it to campus. (2008)
Sam Maresh - Heart problems solved only to run into idiot problems. (2008)
David Pittman - Bust. (2008)
Hayo Carpenter - Bust. (2009)
Hasan Lipscomb - Never made it to campus. (2009)

By my viewpoint, it looks like about 50% of our highly touted recruits were worthless in terms of on-field production making our real talent level much less than the recruiting rankings led us to believe. In fact on Rival's "Enrolled Rankings" for the hyped 2008 class we dropped from an original ranking of #17 (#3 B10) nationally to #35 (#4 B10), and for 2009 we slipped from #39 (#6 B10) to #48 (#7 B10).

 

[dpodoll68]

It's not as bare as Wisconsin's national title trophy cupboard.

 

[Hates Monikers]

The defense should be fine next year with each player at their current position. The one thing that I would like to see from some of the DL and even the OL is to lose about 10-15 lbs to improve their quickness. This is mainly for the DTs as many of the DEs need to gain 10-15 lbs. The other stuff (losing contain, etc.) should be taken care of with good coaching.

One thing to look for in spring ball is how players react to a new eye evaluating their talent. Guys that were prominent players might not see as much time next year. How will that affect each player? Will players transfer because of it?

I wish I shared your optimism. I was among those who thought there wouldn't be too much dropoff in the defense this year. I didn't expect it to be better and maybe not even as good as last year. But we have enough guys who played last year so that the "too young" or "inexperienced" excuses can't entirely explain a defense this bad. I'll believe in a better defense when I see it.

 

[Jike Spingleton]

Help Wanted: Code breaker desired to decipher coded message into English. I believe the writer is saying we need to be sure the new coach keeps things the same or "the boys" feelings may be hurt. I must be wrong though because then he'd really be saying Brewster should still be coaching and I think I've heard he really didn't want that. I'm sorry. I'm confused. Help wanted, volunteer position only.

We all gave up on translating Wren's posts years ago. Prexy B, MACturi, Big Ten wins, blah blah blah...

 

[Gophers_are_Golden]

Is there any chance of Kim Royston getting a medical redshirt for this year, allowing him to play next season? That would help our defense a lot.

 

[jovs]

I wish I shared your optimism. I was among those who thought there wouldn't be too much dropoff in the defense this year. I didn't expect it to be better and maybe not even as good as last year. But we have enough guys who played last year so that the "too young" or "inexperienced" excuses can't entirely explain a defense this bad. I'll believe in a better defense when I see it.

My guess is that the defense the new coach gets will be about what Brewster got from Mason.

 

[Monty519]

The offensive cupboard all depends on how good MarQueis Gray really is IMO. If he's really dynamic out there, we could be explosive, even though our receiver depth will be a question mark. If he's not, or if Alipate isn't ready to take the reigns with Gray at receiver, then we may struggle quite a bit offensively. Obviously we lose some on the line, but hopefully some of the younger guys can be decent.

Defensively, the athletes here now compared to when Brewster got here, far better physically. The question is whether mentally they can become the beast defense they are physically capable of becoming. You see guys flying around, they just oftentimes would fly to the wrong spots, or play angles very poorly. Sign of a young defense and perhaps poor coaching, IMO. I'll be intrigued in watching these guys grow up the next two years and see if they really are as bad as they showed, or whether some good coaching and experience brings them around.

 

[GreasyGopher]

I disagree. You can only do so much when a coach is consistently putting you in a bad position. These players are following their assignments but they are just getting poor assignments from the DC. Just look at how fast Nebraska's D turned around after Cosgrove left. The poor performance and confusion on the field is a result of poor coaching. Inexperience plays a part in this too but lets not forget that it is a coaches job to put their players in a position to make plays and that just hasn't happened.

 

[Plinnius]

But we have enough guys who played last year so that the "too young" or "inexperienced" excuses can't entirely explain a defense this bad.

Obviously they couldn't have played THAT much because we returned just 30.94% of our tackles, ranking us dead last nationally.

Also, I have Phil Steele's statistical projections for our defense here in front of me and they are dead on.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

First to answer a couple key questions on here....

#1: Kim Royston will not be able to play next season. 6th Seasons of eligibility are extremely rare and are only given out if a player was hurt for two seasons (by the same injury).

#2: I'm not sure how well Cooper would do at SS but to assume he couldn't play that position because he hasn't yet is kind of naive (IMO). Stoudermire will be a starting CB next season and he will be pretty solid. He switched from WR to CB. While there are some big differences between OLB and SS, some of his best skills overlap what would be effective traits to possess for those positions. He can run (fast enough to be a SS), he has covered a lot of TEs and RBs, he is about perfect size for a SS. Now, again, he might not be a fit there, but that notion shouldn't be hushed simply because he hasn't played there YET.

As far as the cupboard being bare, it's not even close. What Brewster walked into (partially because of the whole Alex Daniels incident, patrially because we didn't hire Brew until so late) was absolutely nothing, like ZERO talent.

I think wiki has a listing of that roster (2007 team). It is almost shocking at how empty that depth chart looked.

Don't take this as me giving Brew a ton of kudos or me thinking that we will be good next season, it's just that unlike 2007 we should be able to put together a reasonable looking roster.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Obviously they couldn't have played THAT much because we returned just 30.94% of our tackles, ranking us dead last nationally.

Also, I have Phil Steele's statistical projections for our defense here in front of me and they are dead on.

Plinnius, just out of curiousity does that 30.94% include Royston?

 

[imthewalrus]

Zero talent was there when brewster walked in??????????

You are really going out of your way to overstate the lie that the brewster apologists always try to overstate.

Based upon your lie, you would then have to believe also that brewster recruited ZERO talent during his three plus years here. There are still some Mason recruits playing. The last two years, when even brewster actually won a few Big Ten games, he was playing a lot of Mason recruits.

So, you contend that brewster was not only totally inept, but was also incapable of recruiting athletes that could replace the "ZERO" talented athletes recruited by Masonthat were there when he arrived?????? You have really gone off the deep end with your spin bob. How foolish can you be???????

 

[Maximus]

You are really going out of your way to overstate the lie that the brewster apologists always try to overstate.

Based upon your lie, you would then have to believe also that brewster recruited ZERO talent during his three plus years here. There are still some Mason recruits playing. The last two years, when even brewster actually won a few Big Ten games, he was playing a lot of Mason recruits.

So, you contend that brewster was not only totally inept, but was also incapable of recruiting athletes that could replace the "ZERO" talented athletes recruited by Masonthat were there when he arrived?????? You have really gone off the deep end with your spin bob. How foolish can you be???????

You're the new coach. Do you want the 2007 roster or 2011 roster?

 

[imthewalrus]

2007 all the way!

I would have NOT changed to some mamby-pamby, easty-westy spreadsy-wedsey offense the way brewster did when he rented dunbar to tell him what kind of offense he was totally committed to at that moment and that he would use regardless of not having players that either fit the system and had never run the system before. I would have probably tried to retain Browning and Shaw to keep the offense pretty much in place. The odds are pretty good that some of the things that got lost in the change might not have happened had there been a coach or two around that the players already there were familiar with and knew. brewster was so busy running his mouth and running around the country "recruiting his way to a 1-11 season..." that he had no time to stick around and tend to the players that he did have.

brewster should have won four or five games that first year. But, he didn't. And he NEVER recovered. He was d.o.a. because he didn't evaluate the players he did have and he had not a clue what offense or defense he was committed to. brewster was committed to nothing. brewster didn't have a core philosophy. brewster was all talk...all hype and no substance. But, he certainly sold a bill of goods to badger joel maturi. And when the smoke cleared, he ended his career at Minnesota just the way he had started his career at Minnesota. But, make no mistake, it was all over for brewster way back at the end of that first season in 2007.

It will be pretty essential for the new coach to retain at least one and possibly two coaches from this staff just to insure a better transition and to make sure that some of the players on the team don't get lost in all the hoopla caused when a new staff and coach takes the program over.

I'd take the players that were there in 2007. I really don't know how the players who are here right now have been developed because of ALL the coaching and coordinator chaos, changes and comings and goings. These current players who have been redshirted or are redshirting haven't had a chance to have any kind of consistancy and consistancy is needed for development as a position player. I'm sure the kids are all great kids. The system has failed them up until now though.