Hot take: We're just fine, PJ is doing fine.

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FanSinceTheFifties said:
"It’s a little tricky to get big recruits into Minnesota compared to communities that are totally geared towards college athletics and aren’t usually as big of a metro area."

Well told. The media and fans have many options for their attention and their dollars in Minneapolis. And the recent reputation that Minneapolis has earned makes recruiting even harder. The chance for a conference championship and high rankings is low so the best candidates gravitate toward winning programs. I think UM is doing pretty well given the handicaps.
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Washington has been to nine Rose Bowls since our last (in which we played them).
They are located in a market very similar to ours and have won a National Title in that time.

Pittsburgh has played in nine major bowls since 1975, and won the ACC last season. They are a similar situation to the Gophers as well.

Colorado is terrible right now. But since 1975, they have played in eight major bowl games and have won a national title. They are in a market similar to the Twin Cities.
 

hello-world said:
... This isn't even a question. Dude is wildly underpaid. He makes less than Ferentz, Tucker, and Fitzgerald who all have worse teams than he does this year. He was making less than Frost until this season.

If the Gophers fired Fleck then I would never give the school, much less athletics, another dime.
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How would they ever survive without your donations?
 


PMWinSTP said:
Not silly questions, but might be a silly answer. We had the Axe and the Pig in 2014. Mason beat Penn State four consecutive times. People watched the Citrus, Holiday, and Sun Bowls.
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False. Our most important and hated rival had the Axe for far too long before Fleck became the coach.
 

hello-world said:
Kill literally never won a bowl game at the U. Not remotely comparable levels of success.
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If that's your benchmark of success...he went to bowl games three of the four full seasons he coached. He had the same conference winning % as Mason.
 



PMWinSTP said:
Meant jug and pig.
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Right. My point hasn't changed. Gophers were a perennial bottom feeder for a good decade post Mason. Kill had a couple of respectable squads....but outside of a Citrus Bowl in which we got dominated by Mizzou (a real who cares of a matchup)....what were the big wins? Beat Michigan when they were at one of their lowest points in recent history. Got Floyd. But there were really no marquee wins.

Not like getting the Axe back to Dinkytown....TWICE. Not like beating #5 Penn State at home as an undefeated team. Not like controlling a New Years game against an Auburn team that has a recent NC.

I'm not saying that fans should be content with topping out at this level. But things have been trending upwards under Fleck.....and downswings are to be expected at times. Hell.....first ten win season in decades a few years back. How can anyone complain about where we're at right now???
 

stocker08 said:
Right. My point hasn't changed. Gophers were a perennial bottom feeder for a good decade post Mason. Kill had a couple of respectable squads....but outside of a Citrus Bowl in which we got dominated by Mizzou (a real who cares of a matchup)....what were the big wins? Beat Michigan when they were at one of their lowest points in recent history. Got Floyd. But there were really no marquee wins.

Not like getting the Axe back to Dinkytown....TWICE. Not like beating #5 Penn State at home as an undefeated team. Not like controlling a New Years game against an Auburn team that has a recent NC.

I'm not saying that fans should be content with topping out at this level. But things have been trending upwards under Fleck.....and downswings are to be expected at times. Hell.....first ten win season in decades a few years back. How can anyone complain about where we're at right now???
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Being 4-3?
 

kg21 said:
We haven't beaten a ranked team on the road since 2000.

That's 25 straight losses.

It's kind of a summary of trying to win here.
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Was Michigan State not ranked in week 4? I am pretty sure they were.
 



stocker08 said:
Maybe not the higher end, Rose Bowl Badger teams.....but last year they would have had ten wins had we not beaten them. Nine wins in 2018. These were still good teams.

Wisconsin had a lot of good but not great teams in the years between Axe wins. Just happens that the Gophers were mostly terrible in that time. I'm looking forward to a year where both the Gophers and the Badgers are ranked and the Axe game is meaningful outside of our two states.
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I think 2019 was
 

stocker08 said:
Maybe not the higher end, Rose Bowl Badger teams.....but last year they would have had ten wins had we not beaten them. Nine wins in 2018. These were still good teams.

Wisconsin had a lot of good but not great teams in the years between Axe wins. Just happens that the Gophers were mostly terrible in that time. I'm looking forward to a year where both the Gophers and the Badgers are ranked and the Axe game is meaningful outside of our two states.
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You must have been watching different Badger teams than I did.
 


So now we're back to comparing Fleck to a coach who was fired 15 years ago and another who left due to his health? The way I see it, the past 20+ years have been better than any point in my lifetime. That's thanks to Mason, Kill and Fleck.

We've taken a step backward this year. Not fun. It's good that we're at the point where we're disappointed with being out of the West race. (But to me, last year was the missed opportunity, not this season with two new lines.) And now other weaknesses have been exposed. The question is whether Fleck can address that this winter. It's not always a straight line up, but Fleck does have to show that he can respond to the issues that have arisen the past few weeks.
 



stocker08 said:
Not that any of that matters. Beating Chunk means nothing in comparison to beating Wisconsin and getting the Axe.
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Two that matter as much, one maybe more?
Beating Iowa for Floyd
Beating Michigan for the Little Brown Jug
 



dpodoll68 said:
Yes, they were. His football posts are almost as bad as his political posts - a high bar to be sure.
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I hope this helps! Feel free to get back to me on it.

Just so you aren't confused here, we played them after the Washington game.

So let me try again. We have not beaten a ranked team on the road in 25 tries. Depressing to say the least.

And my political takes are just like this? Thanks for the compliment, bud!(y)

spartanswire.usatoday.com

MSU football falls out of AP Top 25 rankings after loss to Washington

Michigan State is no longer ranked in the AP top 25 poll
spartanswire.usatoday.com spartanswire.usatoday.com
 
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kg21 said:
LMAO

Let me try again.

spartanswire.usatoday.com

MSU football falls out of AP Top 25 rankings after loss to Washington

Michigan State is no longer ranked in the AP top 25 poll
spartanswire.usatoday.com spartanswire.usatoday.com
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I know you are very stupid, but I assume you are literate.

NCAA College Football Coaches Poll | USA Today Sports

The US LBM Football Coaches Poll, published by USA TODAY Sports, is conducted weekly throughout the NCAA college football season. See the latest Top 25 rankings from the game’s best head coaches.
www.usatoday.com
 

TheNorthernAmir said:
Let me parachute into this board and drop some (seemingly) hot takes:

  • PJ is doing fine. He has built a front 7 and secondary (plus depth) that we haven't seen before
  • We clearly have more talent, size and athleticism across the board than we have at any time in the past.
  • We now have competition (and unfortunate transfers) in RB/WR/QB rooms. That means good recruiting. That means good depth.
  • Lastly, and perhaps most importantly - it's a sign of a good coach that he can make guys like Tanner Morgan, Braelon Oliver, Sori-Marin, etc and make them into competitive B1G players. Y'all need to remember how bare the cupboard was, and PJ was bringing in guys that would have been at a MAC or Sun Belt school instead.
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Cupboard was bare. Yeah, Winfield, Johnson, Coughlin, Martin - and the majority of the 2019 roster. They were awful. PJ won with them, and he should have.

Also, Mason didn’t have the benefit of playing in the Big Ten West that PJ has had, and he did really well. I would have loved to see what he could have done with that. Give Mason some credit. Kill truly inherited a dumpster fire and along with Claeys positioned PJ well as he came in. Now, looking at what PJ has done, his record is about what Mason and Kill did. Let’s hope he takes it in a positive direction the rest of this year.

Jeff
 

Tucker32 said:
Cupboard was bare. Yeah, Winfield, Johnson, Coughlin, Martin - and the majority of the 2019 roster. They were awful. PJ won with them, and he should have.

Also, Mason didn’t have the benefit of playing in the Big Ten West that PJ has had, and he did really well. I would have loved to see what he could have done with that. Give Mason some credit. Kill truly inherited a dumpster fire and along with Claeys positioned PJ well as he came in. Now, looking at what PJ has done, his record is about what Mason and Kill did. Let’s hope he takes it in a positive direction the rest of this year.

Jeff
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Fleck is 39-26 (.600) overall.
22-25 (0.468) in the B1G.
Kill was 29-29 (.500) overall
14-21 (0.400) in the B1G.
Mason was 64-57 (0.529) overall.
32-48 (.400) in the B1G.

Fleck might have take over a more talented program than Kill, but he has also done more with it. He had a few pieces left over from Kill but he also had to win with a Sophomore QB and patchwork offensive line that were all his.

The broader point though, is that the Gophers aren't going to find a better coach than PJ Fleck.
 

hello-world said:
And look what happened after the Gophers fired him. It took nearly 20 years for the program to rebuild to that level.

Mason had several awful patterns under his coaching. Including giving up gigantic leads in the second half and never beating the skunks. And it was still an awful mistake to fire him.
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He had a few other awful patterns:
I will add lazy recruiting and not wanting to be in MN to the list you started.

It was time to try something new, problem is MACturi hired a tight ends coach from the NFL.
 



disco said:
Washington has been to nine Rose Bowls since our last (in which we played them).
They are located in a market very similar to ours and have won a National Title in that time.

Pittsburgh has played in nine major bowls since 1975, and won the ACC last season. They are a similar situation to the Gophers as well.

Colorado is terrible right now. But since 1975, they have played in eight major bowl games and have won a national title. They are in a market similar to the Twin Cities.
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Yes, similar markets with more success than the Gophers. Why? If you dismiss the detracting influence of pro competition, then what has caused UM to lag behind these three and most Big10 teams since the early 60s? I ask sincerely, not confrontationally.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I guess the question is...has it been worth roughly $4 million more a year, not including staff salary increases? Is it matching Coyle's expectations from the intro presser for Fleck? He is the first football HC to have the full use of the Athletes Village.
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If only our revenues had been - and were - increasing lately . . .

Also . . . Good thing other B1G programs have been “spartan” in not giving big increases to their staffs.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
Yes, similar markets with more success than the Gophers. Why? If you dismiss the detracting influence of pro competition, then what has caused UM to lag behind these three and most Big10 teams since the early 60s? I ask sincerely, not confrontationally.
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Organizational incompetence. The fact that the U has performed poorly does not mean there is some magic barrier that makes better performance impossible. Just that other universities managed to select better leaders (both for AD and head coach), and those more talented people achieved better results.
 

If we go 9-3 with a bowl win, that would put us at 10-3 overall.
Can't fire a coach with that type of record.
You can't.
It would be dumb.
 

Face The Facts said:
If we go 9-3 with a bowl win, that would put us at 10-3 overall.
Can't fire a coach with that type of record.
You can't.
It would be dumb.
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I don't think you can fire Fleck at 7-6. It would just be spinning our wheels. He's excited about some of the young guys. He has 7 of top 12 MN kids committed to the program.
 

TheNorthernAmir said:
  • We now have competition (and unfortunate transfers) in RB/WR/QB rooms. That means good recruiting. That means good depth.
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No, we don't have competition in the QB room. PJ has made it very clear that he has a man-crush with Morgan and until his eligibility is exhausted, he will play, no matter how poorly.

And the only competition in the WR room is comparing these receivers to those gems that Kill brought in, in an attempt to see who had better WRs, PJ or Kill. If you take out Bateman, it's a pretty even comparison.
 

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