Honest Question: What does PJ bring to the table?

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csom_1991

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I don't know if anyone knows what is Fleck's pitch to the recruits - but I would love to know it. He is not an X and O's guy (everyone admits it), he is not a great game day coach (as seen over and over), he is not a great player development coach. Not that we are in year 7 and people can see his body of work, the 'you are joining something great' speech has to ring hollow.

So, what is the speech? He can give early playing time so they can audition for a transfer portal NIL deal? We don't even have the promise of a new stadium or facilities, etc which will totally change things around. We have no offensive identity - we have no defensive identity. Is it a chance at a great education? So, what is the pitch to get players to come here?
 


I think he was the right coach before NIL and the transfer portal took off. I don't think there's anyone this program can bring in who will make us competitive with our lack of resources and contributing alumni. The only thing that can bring this program back to relevance is the Vikings investing heavily in us with NIL and utilizing us as a feeder program. Otherwise we're dead in the water, whether it's Fleck or some other poor schmuck at the helm. It's unsustainable without a major corporate investment in the program.
 

Had some good banter with several of our Michigan visitors in the stadium and on the trains to/from the stadium to our parking.

Each one of them asked what we thought of Row the Boat? They all knew it from Western Michigan and wondered how it's working here? Very complimentary though, not derisive like some other fanbases we engage on an annual basis.

So he's brought that to our table. I think it's a good thing.
 

mngg11 said:
The only thing that can bring this program back to relevance is the Vikings investing heavily in us with NIL and utilizing us as a feeder program
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The feeder program really doesn't work because of the draft. I have said this many times before on this board - I think our only chance for relevance is to get an identity again. Hate on Mason all you want, but he put running backs into the NFL and our ground game was known throughout the nation. This likely won't ever win you a national title, but at least you remain relevant. Build that identity back and try to develop o line and running backs as your calling card. In the off chance we ever get a legit QB here - no way in hell will they stick around anyway which makes the NIL a joke for us so forget about the passing game saving us. Sell out to build an o line and run game like Mason had - get a national identity back.
 



csom_1991 said:
The feeder program really doesn't work because of the draft. I have said this many times before on this board - I think our only chance for relevance is to get an identity again. Hate on Mason all you want, but he put running backs into the NFL and our ground game was known throughout the nation. This likely won't ever win you a national title, but at least you remain relevant. Build that identity back and try to develop o line and running backs as your calling card. In the off chance we ever get a legit QB here - no way in hell will they stick around anyway which makes the NIL a joke for us so forget about the passing game saving us. Sell out to build an o line and run game like Mason had - get a national identity back.
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I would never hate on Mason, personally. God, I LOVED his offenses. Now that was some exciting offensive football.

It was just his defenses, my word. If he'd put even half the attention into his defense as he put into his offense, we'd have really had something there.
 

BilldGopher said:
Each one of them asked what we thought of Row the Boat? They all knew it from Western Michigan and wondered how it's working here?
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Maybe I am just out of touch. But, we have kids here that likely grew up in the city and have never been in a boat in their life - much less rowed one. As such, it is an outdated idea like 'Be Kind, Rewind' - maybe it connects with the kids but I don't know how. When I was in high school, our coach came up with the line "it's time to fight on the ice" - everyone cheered in the locker room but no one actually understood what the hell this was supposed to mean so it was a calling card of the coach - but utterly meaningless to the players. My opinion of Fleck is he is no different than the high school coach which checks your grades and makes you wear a tie to school on game days. Yes, it is good for a culture and probably kept some of the kids out of trouble - but it does not overcome talent gaps and win national titles.
 

Seany said:
I would never hate on Mason, personally. God, I LOVED his offenses. Now that was some exciting offensive football.

It was just his defenses, my word. If he'd put even half his attention into his defense as he put into his offense, we'd have really had something there.
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Mason was always auditioning for tOSU. He was lazy in recruiting because he saw the cap on what we could accomplish playing off campus with just about zero support from the administration and completely lacking facilities and money for his assistants. What he was able to develop was one hell of an offensive system which allowed us to recruit into it because the backs and line knew we would get national exposure. As for D - 100% with you on that. It was brutal at times.
 



csom_1991 said:
The feeder program really doesn't work because of the draft. I have said this many times before on this board - I think our only chance for relevance is to get an identity again. Hate on Mason all you want, but he put running backs into the NFL and our ground game was known throughout the nation. This likely won't ever win you a national title, but at least you remain relevant. Build that identity back and try to develop o line and running backs as your calling card. In the off chance we ever get a legit QB here - no way in hell will they stick around anyway which makes the NIL a joke for us so forget about the passing game saving us. Sell out to build an o line and run game like Mason had - get a national identity back.
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I think I'd much rather have the frustrating losses Mason had than the shit we have now with PJ. At least his teams were fun to watch and had competent QBs for the most part
 

mngg11 said:
I think he was the right coach before NIL and the transfer portal took off. I don't think there's anyone this program can bring in who will make us competitive with our lack of resources and contributing alumni. The only thing that can bring this program back to relevance is the Vikings investing heavily in us with NIL and utilizing us as a feeder program. Otherwise we're dead in the water, whether it's Fleck or some other poor schmuck at the helm. It's unsustainable without a major corporate investment in the program.
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Agree 100%, we do not have a Mr Ryan (Northwestern), Mr Simon (Indiana), or a Mr Wexner (Ohio State) and unless we find one, we will continue to be on the outside looking in.
 

I have been saying this for two years, but I believe PJ thought he would recruit at an unbelievably high level once in the big 10.

I believe he is somewhat resigned to the fact of what it is now. I think he's lost a little of the fire and energy by realizing it's nothing like what he thought it was going to be.
 

kg21 said:
I have been saying this for two years, but I believe PJ thought he would recruit at an unbelievably high level once in the big 10.

I believe he is somewhat resigned to the fact of what it is now. I think he's lost a little of the fire and energy by realizing it's nothing like what he thought it was going to be.
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Not just PJ - I think that was the expectations of the fanbase as well. Total flop on this point.
 



NotAFanOfBecky said:
Best run of successful seasons in my 45+ year history of watching, he’s earned more time from me. I’ve been through way too many years of misery.
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I have been of this mind up to this season. For whatever reasons, he has been outcoached too much. It's affected his recruiting. I'm honestly concerned about us going into free fall as the conference expands to 16, then 18 teams.

We need to be more aggressive in our recruiting. Can Fleck do that? We need to be more aggressive in our play selection. Can Fleck get that done?

The landscape of college athletics is changing and the passive-aggressive response of typical Minnesotans won't benefit the University. It's time to take a dose of humility and admit the patronage/sponsorship system still exists and is found in the athletic department. If this University wants better funding then successful athletics is the way. State funding will continue to get more sparse as culture war goes on at the State Capital and the University is the poster/whipping child depending on the side.

I was surprised Fleck was so late to the NIL plea podium. It makes me wonder how oblivious he is. Today was the first time I tuned out of Gopher game because of flashbacks to 1983. Usually when we are down I feel a sense of hope or optimism, but today was nothing but despair.

PJ has to do more than win half the games, he needs to regularly get 8, 9 and 10 win seasons. This won't be one of those years. I doubt the next two will be either.

We are going into an era of change in a position of weakness. The question is where do we want to be after the change? Personally, I would like to come out of it stronger, but we keep positioning ourselves away from strength.
 


Ewert86PC said:
PJ has to do more than win half the games, he needs to regularly get 8, 9 and 10 win seasons. This won't be one of those years. I doubt the next two will be either.
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I agree with you - so, even the thought of sniffing the top 25 is nothing but a dream for the next 3 years. That is a depressing thought.
 

Tonight's beatdown was reminiscent of the 1983 beatdown when Michigan beat us 58-10 in Ann Arbor. We went 1-10 on the season and 0-9 in the Big 10. It was Joe Salem's last season as coach.
We are 3-3 this season, but could easily be 2-4 with no wins in the B1G (thank you Nebraska). Fleck is making excuses and telling us we are young and if we don't provide money for the NIL we will be nothing but a feeder program.

I have no idea how this program gets fixed.
 

csom_1991 said:
I agree with you - so, even the thought of sniffing the top 25 is nothing but a dream for the next 3 years. That is a depressing thought.
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I don’t get writing off the next three years. We went from 5-7 to 11-2 two years later, we went from 3-4 to 9-4 and the next two years. What makes you think improving is impossible?
 

btowngopher said:
I don’t get writing off the next three years. We went from 5-7 to 11-2 two years later, we went from 3-4 to 9-4 and the next two years. What makes you think improving is impossible?
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I write them off because the team is the team (no breakout stars I can see upcoming) and we will not have extremely favorable schedules like we had before.
 

I think that, no matter what, any inability in the capability of this program to get to the next level lies above and beyond who the head coach is. Fleck put us where we needed and wanted to see this program. The changes to cfb as a whole kicked us in the the pants. The rich get richer, the Gophs get gopherer.
 


Unregistered User said:
Did you ever watch Gopher football before Fleck showed up here?
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Since 1991 - and the product on the field so far this year is among the worst I have seen - and that includes some incompetent squads. However, I have not seen us this bad this late in a coach's tenure with all the resources at Fleck's disposal.
 

csom_1991 said:
Since 1991 - and the product on the field so far this year is among the worst I have seen - and that includes some incompetent squads. However, I have not seen us this bad this late in a coach's tenure with all the resources at Fleck's disposal.
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So you were alive, and presumably a fan during the Tim Brewster era, and this is worse?

gtfooh
 

He is really good at taking Time Outs, I've learned that in the years he has been a coach and the one at the end of the half just before the TD was another brilliant masterpiece of his excellent time management skill
 

Unregistered User said:
So you were alive, and presumably a fan during the Tim Brewster era, and this is worse?

gtfooh
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This is some of the worse product I have seen on the field - yes. Tim Brewster's 1st year was horrible - but even they kept it to 34-10 vs. Michigan. We are in year 7 of Fleck and this team is a huge step back from last year in every phase of the game. Brewster was a disaster for the Gophers but he was able to take his 1-11 2007 team and go 7-6 the following year because even in 1-11, we could see some stars emerging. I don't see ANY stars emerging on this team - I see regression in every aspect of the product on the field. Take BSF - what the hell is happening there? To me, it seems like Fleck has lost the team.
 

1. He's never had a string of bad seasons. He's never been in the zone of firing. He's been to bowls and won them. Remember that. Remember the coaches before him.

2. The criticism this season of his tendencies and shortfalls is legit.

Two things can exist at the same time. It's not only that or only this.
 

SHGopher said:
1. He's never had a string of bad seasons. He's never been in the zone of firing. He's been to bowls and won them. Remember that. Remember the coaches before him.

2. The criticism this season of his tendencies and shortfalls is legit.

Two things can exist at the same time. It's not only that or only this.
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In the history of Gopher football or football in general, how many times did you hear teams say that they fired a head coach too soon vs. saying that they should have acted faster? Fleck should not be fired based on the results this season - but if next year looks the same, he should be. Personally, I think we will not improve over the next 2-3 years. The bloom is off the rose and I don't see any other program trying to steal him. With the facilities we have now, the admin support, and the salaries available for the coaches, I don't want to hear any excuses about why we can't win here. Blaming lack of NIL dollars is a poor excuse. Fact is that we have not been active in the transfer portal, have not put in an effect assistant coaching staff, and we have not done a good job of coaching up our players. This is year 7, not year 0.
 

SHGopher said:
1. He's never had a string of bad seasons. He's never been in the zone of firing. He's been to bowls and won them. Remember that. Remember the coaches before him.

2. The criticism this season of his tendencies and shortfalls is legit.

Two things can exist at the same time. It's not only that or only this.
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Have been criticizing his shortfalls and tendencies since 2019, this is nothing new, isn’t going to change, and is impacting everything about the program including recruiting.
 

First, in the difference between Brewster and PJ Fleck... Fleck hit one out of the park on hiring Rossi as DC. That hire may have saved his ass. He's whiffed a bit on his OC hires. Brewster... he never was able to put together a decent staff, and he was shown the door.

Also, even though Fleck has been bringing in some talent through the portal, the Gophers have lost quite a bit of talent. Because of that, Fleck & Co. are relying on some very inexperienced freshmen who shouldn't be shouldering the responsibilities that they've been tasked with.

Did you see Michigan's O-line...? How many transfers did they have starting? It was a lot of 'em. Fleck is going to have to be more aggresive with the portal... it is the way college football works these days.

That leads to NIL... The Gophers don't have the $$$$ to compete with the Michigan's of the college football world. Maybe some of the grassroots stuff will keep the program afloat, but it's going to take more to get PJ rowing with the big boys. Can they somehow get some corporate backing in this town? I dunno... but if they don't, the Gophers are going to have to settle for losing high-level recruits to schools with deeper pockets (unless PJ gets the kids and their parents to drink the kool-aid, so to speak. It has worked with some, but the players who are just looking for a stepping stone to the NFL will look elsewhere for a paycheck.)
 

csom_1991 said:
Blaming lack of NIL dollars is a poor excuse. Fact is that we have not been active in the transfer portal
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Unfortunately, the NIL dollars are often quite necessary to bring in those better players from the transfer portal. Don't have the dollars available? Then you roll the dice on whether or not a player from Western Michigan, Abilene Christian, or some other FCS or mid-tier school will be able to step up.
 

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