Hit the reset button on the program?

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BisonGopher

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I see two major problems:

1) switching systems/schemes every year.

2) "accept defeat" attitude of older players on the program


Proposal: starting next season, play only freshmen, redshirt freshman and soph that played as true fresh this year. Guarantee those guys that the schemes will not change for the next 4 seasons, no matter what.

Let those guys keep playing for 4 seasons, gaining experience with the same scheme for next 4 springs and 4 falls.


At the end of 2015 season if things aren't significantly better (goal: bowl game and 8 wins (with or without a bowl win)), fire the staff and start over again.
 

Ok, all Seniors and Juniors next year you can now transfer.
 

Kill pulled a lot of seniors at the end, i'm sure he's thinking the same thing. Get the young guys acclimated to his scheme of football and keep pluckin' toward the future. it's all we can do...
 


BisonGopher said:
Well?!?!

Do you accept that the same guys playing now should be the starters next year too?
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If I am a Junior and Senior and I know I am not playing next year or the year after I will transfer to a different school.
 


4four4 said:
If I am a Junior and Senior and I know I am not playing next year or the year after I will transfer to a different school.
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AND?!?!?!?!

Dude...I'm trying to suggest that might not be the worst thing in the world. Can it get worse than it is now? Maybe we'd be condeming the 2012 team to another 1 or 2 loss season - but something is seriously broken.

Maybe the culture at Minnesota is broken? You know, young guys learn from the older guys.


At some point, the cycle has to be broken or it's just going to keep going this way no matter who you hire.

It's not recruiting, Brewster showed that. It's not coaching effort, Kill & staff are showing that. There's something else that's seriously broken right now.

Maybe Minnesota/Minneapolis offer too many distractions for college football? Too much partying? Drugs? Who knows - you can't really know unless you're on the team.
 

You need depth to win football games if you have none injuries mount up and you lose players. That is why you can't get rid of Juniors and Seniors. Remember schools only have so many scholarships they can use every year.
 

4four4 said:
You need depth to win football games if you have none injuries mount up and you lose players. That is why you can't get rid of Juniors and Seniors. Remember schools only have so many scholarships they can use every year.
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Depth will be rebuilt with each new class of freshman moving forward. Maybe you only have 50 players in 2012 - that's the price you pay to hit the reset button.

But heck, what's the difference??? It's going about like that now.
 

BisonGopher said:
Depth will be rebuilt with each new class of freshman moving forward. Maybe you only have 50 players in 2012 - that's the price you pay to hit the reset button.

But heck, what's the difference??? It's going about like that now.
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1. Our APR would get killed, thus we would lose a bunch of scholarships
2. It's hard enough to recruit when you're a losing program, imagine trying to convince kids to come when you have a ton of kids transferring. No matter the reason, it wouldn't look good.
 



GophersInIowa said:
1. Our APR would get killed, thus we would lose a bunch of scholarships
2. It's hard enough to recruit when you're a losing program, imagine trying to convince kids to come when you have a ton of kids transferring. No matter the reason, it wouldn't look good.
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1. "The NCAA does adjust APR, on a student-by-student basis, in two circumstances—when a player transfers to another school with a sufficiently high GPA, or leaves for a professional sports career while still in good academic standing."

2. I got the idea from what Indiana St coach did a few years ago. He basically did this, minus all the transfers (btw, I'm not actually suggesting that coach Kill tell kids they should transfer) and it has worked. Indiana St was the worst DI football team in the country (FCS) and they're ranked right now. He did what I'm suggesting with very minimal facilities and they have turned things around.

So, it's not completely without precedent. Maybe it wouldn't work on a larger scale like Minnesota, but right now I say that keep the current direction of the program is the same thing as giving up. Try something different.
 

They've already hit the reset button on the program. that's why we're 1-4 right now. new schemes being implemented, younger players with enough ability to contribute getting playing time and learning the system, whole team learning how to work hard and compete (though some guys are obviously not up to speed on this right now). the problem is there aren't enough young guys with the talent, size, and physical ability to play only young guys. that's why you have 4-5 classes on a team and why you can't ditch older players who have learned bad habits or who just don't have the football acumen. the pain will pay off over the next few years though. It's just painful to watch right now. I'll look forward to 4-5 wins next year and hopefully smarter , more competititve football in the other games.
 

hendo59 said:
They've already hit the reset button on the program. that's why we're 1-4 right now. new schemes being implemented, younger players with enough ability to contribute getting playing time and learning the system, whole team learning how to work hard and compete (though some guys are obviously not up to speed on this right now). the problem is there aren't enough young guys with the talent, size, and physical ability to play only young guys. that's why you have 4-5 classes on a team and why you can't ditch older players who have learned bad habits or who just don't have the football acumen. the pain will pay off over the next few years though. It's just painful to watch right now. I'll look forward to 4-5 wins next year and hopefully smarter , more competititve football in the other games.
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"the problem is there aren't enough young guys with the talent, size, and physical ability to play only young guys"

there aren't enough....to what??? Win games??? Well....they aren't really winning games now, are they?

Those young guys are going to get bigger, faster, stronger as they get older. But why not play them now so they can get experience in the system that will (hopefully) be there the next 4/5 years?


I'm sure many here can recall that Setterstrom and Eslinger played as 250lbs true freshmen, right? Once they matured physically they were the right size - but you can't get in the weight room the kind of experience they built up from playing games. You can only get that from playing.

Why not have a whole team of guys like Setterstrom and Eslinger by 2015?
 

Is there a suicide option for a program like the death penalty? If so, we should take it.
 



4four4 said:
If I am a Junior and Senior and I know I am not playing next year or the year after I will transfer to a different school.
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This is precisely what Kill and staff need to and want to change. We need guys that want to be Football players first, Gophers second and worry about playing time 3rd. There are 105 guys on the team and about 50-60 see the field. THe 50-60 that don't see the field are the guys that come here for the reasons Kill wants. The future recruits will have those same ideals.

We don't want players who quit when they face adversity. They'll get cleaned out in the next couple years.
 

I'm not completely opposed to the OP's suggestion. Hell, it makes sense. Don't think it would happen, but if it did, I wouldn't be mad.
 

Michigan sure isn't having problems with their new "system" or "scheme"

Please stop using this lame excuse.....
 

BisonGopher said:
"the problem is there aren't enough young guys with the talent, size, and physical ability to play only young guys"

there aren't enough....to what??? Win games??? Well....they aren't really winning games now, are they?

Those young guys are going to get bigger, faster, stronger as they get older. But why not play them now so they can get experience in the system that will (hopefully) be there the next 4/5 years?


I'm sure many here can recall that Setterstrom and Eslinger played as 250lbs true freshmen, right? Once they matured physically they were the right size - but you can't get in the weight room the kind of experience they built up from playing games. You can only get that from playing.

Why not have a whole team of guys like Setterstrom and Eslinger by 2015?
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Because the problem is that it doesn't work for everyone like Eslinger and Setterstrom. Some guys are simply overmatched and the early playing time can shatter their confidence rather than build them up faster for the future. Plus, you do not sit kids just because they are juniors and seniors from an old regime. if they have, and continue to work hard, and they are the best players in their positions, you reward them by playing them. to not do so sends a bad message and can erode trust. All coaches want their younger players and their recruits to know that if they work hard, buy into their system, and demonstrate character and leadership on and off the field, then the best players will play...period. coaches also want older guys to mentor young guys and show them the way. even if you only have a couple of guys that do this, then you play them. so while i understand your point, i just don't see the benefit of your approach...novel as it is.
 

hendo59 said:
Because the problem is that it doesn't work for everyone like Eslinger and Setterstrom. Some guys are simply overmatched and the early playing time can shatter their confidence rather than build them up faster for the future. Plus, you do not sit kids just because they are juniors and seniors from an old regime. if they have, and continue to work hard, and they are the best players in their positions, you reward them by playing them. to not do so sends a bad message and can erode trust. All coaches want their younger players and their recruits to know that if they work hard, buy into their system, and demonstrate character and leadership on and off the field, then the best players will play...period. coaches also want older guys to mentor young guys and show them the way. even if you only have a couple of guys that do this, then you play them. so while i understand your point, i just don't see the benefit of your approach...novel as it is.
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You have made some posts that I completely disagree with, and this is at the opposite end of that. Don't take that the wrong way, like I've got a vendetta against you. I would be hard pressed to find any poster here that I agree with all the time.

Well stated.
 





I think what the OP is suggesting makes sense, but i'd think any Gopher fan would have the ability to remember a few years ago, that method of development doesn't usually work.

The 2007 season we went incredibly young (the youngest and least deep team I can ever remember) and I wouldn't say it exactly built our program.

In my opinion, your best bet is to play the best players. I don't think it's good for a program to hand any position to anyone and that method would essentially be handing starting positions to players who might not deserve it.

Second, it's difficult to recruit to a program that is open about not playing the best players. This method would essentially be admitting that they don't play players based "who deserves it".

Third, I actually think it can stunt the development of some players who are in way over their head to play when they aren't ready. There are a ton of players who are simply not ready to play at 18 yrs old and to put them in there when they aren't ready isn't doing them or the program any favors.

However, I do think the worse you are the more you need to find a lot of PT for younger guys (especially guys who have burned their RS). DCT, Cobb, Shortell, Amaefula, Tommy Olson, and even Epping are going to need to get a lot of PT, but I don't think a boycott on the upperclassmen (if they deserve playing) would do our program any good.
 


Including this year:

Michigan has been 20-22 (7-18); and
Minnesota hs been 17-26 (8-17).

And they are MICHIGAN.
 

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