History tells us Ben Johnson has a steep slope to climb

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
11,302
Reaction score
1,707
Points
113
Does Gopher Basketball have a curse? Are there any dead bodies buried under Williams Arena?

The NCAA was not too kind to Gopher Men's Basketball. Clem Haskins and a certain booster left deep wounds.

The Minnesota Golden Gophers Basketball is not the UNC Tarheels program. They just don't have savoir-faire in front of the NCAA kangaroo judges. They have no big powerful political interests backing them. The UNC Tarheels spun a web around the NCAA better than a spider would.

The NCAA vacated the Gophers NIT and NCAA records of the Clem Haskins Era and years before that. This is according to the Coachesdatabase.com website. Somewhere, there were admissions of impermissible benefits before the Clem Haskins years. Is this correct?

Post-Season:

  • National Championships: 0
  • Final Four Appearances: 0
  • Sweet Sixteen Appearances: 3 (1982, 1989, 1990) **
  • NCAA Tournament Appearances: 10 (1982, 1989, 1990, 1999, 2005, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2017, 2019) **
  • NCAAT Overall Record: 8-10 **
  • NIT Championships: 2 (1993, 2014) **
  • NIT Appearances: 13 (1973, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1992, 1993, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014) **
  • NIT Overall Record: 27-11 **
  • Premo-Porretta National Championships: 2 (1901, 1902)
  • Helms Foundation National Championships: 2 (1902, 1919)

Conference Titles (Big Ten):

** Vacated by the NCAA

It seems unfair that the NCAA expunged the records before the Clem Haskins Era. The NCAA really dug deep. Minnesota Golden Gophers Basketball is not the UNC Tarheels. In the case of the Tarheels, the NCAA does not want to bite the hands that feed it.

It is tough to attract Minnesota in-state recruits to the hometown program. The Gophers did not win very many titles or appear frequently in tournament games. This may weigh on the in-state recruits sitting on the fence. The top players who are highly rated will gravitate to Duke, Gonzaga, etc...

Gopher Men's Basketball is a tough gig. It was even tough for Coach Tuby Smith who won a national title at Kentucky.

I have great memories of the Musselman and Dutcher Eras. No NCAA expungement can take that away.

We have to give Ben Johnson a chance. He already has a tall order even before his first game as a head coach is played. Maybe this hire is the secret sauce that will reverse the curse.

This is straight-up roulette odds hiring a coach with no head coaching experience. He will redefine the Gopher Basketball Brand to one of tenacious defense and high octane offense. That is my hope. I am all-in on his number pick. What is there to lose?

Sources:

CoachesDatabase


Wikiwand
 
Last edited:

goldenboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
221
Points
63
What is there to lose?
His job.
Coyle’s job.
Fan support.
5 years of opportunity cost.
There is a lot to lose.
Not saying Johnson can’t or won’t be successful, but I’m still waiting for the next bit of positive news. The Battle signing was the only one for me, so far. There’s been a whole lot of meh or bad news since then. I’m hoping he gets a couple top MN kids to commit soon, just to inject some ray of sunshine.
 

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
3,070
Reaction score
1,188
Points
113
much to lose with st Thomas going D1 and becoming the TC school for basketball. If BJ fails you can assume that Coyle is also gone. Do or die time and BJ has the wheel.
 

bfriedrichs10

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
878
Reaction score
757
Points
93
much to lose with st Thomas going D1 and becoming the TC school for basketball. If BJ fails you can assume that Coyle is also gone. Do or die time and BJ has the wheel.
So when the Washington Huskies have a bad season the Seattle Redhawks automatically become the best show in town? Kinda sounds like that's what you're implying here.
 

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
3,070
Reaction score
1,188
Points
113
So when the Washington Huskies have a bad season the Seattle Redhawks automatically become the best show in town? Kinda sounds like that's what you're implying here.
After a bad 30 seasons everything is up in they air.
 


bfriedrichs10

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
878
Reaction score
757
Points
93
After a bad 30 seasons everything is up in they air.
No chance St. Thomas will be bad too?

It'll be interesting to see how the two programs are compared to each other. For example, is a 3rd place finish in the Summit better than a 7th place finish in the Big 10? Is an average St. Thomas team better than a bad Gopher team? I know how I would respond to those hypotheticals.
 

cjbfbp

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
8,881
Reaction score
3,257
Points
113
What is there to lose?
His job.
Coyle’s job.
Fan support.
5 years of opportunity cost.
There is a lot to lose.
Not saying Johnson can’t or won’t be successful, but I’m still waiting for the next bit of positive news. The Battle signing was the only one for me, so far. There’s been a whole lot of meh or bad news since then. I’m hoping he gets a couple top MN kids to commit soon, just to inject some ray of sunshine.

OK, there are costs to failure here but I don't know that I agree with one of them you mentioned: Coyle's job.

Like many on this site, you are making conclusions based on faulty assumptions about the nature of University Athletic Directors.

Assumption 1: Athletic Directors are like Professional Team General Managers.

Wrong! Athletic Directors are first and foremost business managers who are responsible for the operations of an entire athletic department. Athletic success is based on multiple factors and the success or failure of any one team in athletic competition is only a small part of that. Much bigger factors would be fund raising and running an athletic program that doesn't run afoul of regulatory or "community" concerns. Coaches are fired eventually for the competitive failures of their teams.

Assumption 2: Athletic Directors are the most powerful persons at a university and they enjoy complete freedom in making decisions about athletics including hiring and firing.

Wrong! Athletic Directors serve at the pleasure of University Presidents. University Presidents are the ultimate authorities at universities. University Presidents are top administrators from an academic (not athletic!) background and they are all to one degree or another politicians.

I can't think of many areas where I agree with Barn Burner but I think he was accurate here when he stated there was a "committee" involved in this decision. Presidents are influenced by community and political concerns and therefore so are athletic directors indirectly. If Coyle really was like a professional team general manager and had complete autonomy in the hiring process and decision, I don't think he would have hired Ben Johnson.

Gary Barta made a horrific decision in 2007 by hiring Todd Lickliter as the head basketball coach and he's still going strong as the Iowa AD fourteen years later.
 
Last edited:

Gopherfan84

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
1,880
Points
113
OK, there are costs to failure here but I don't know that I agree with one of them you mentioned: Coyle's job.

Like many on this site, you are making conclusions based on faulty assumptions about the nature of University Athletic Directors.

Assumption 1: Athletic Directors are like Professional Team General Managers.

Wrong! Athletic Directors are first and foremost business managers who are responsible for the operations of an entire athletic department. Athletic success is based on multiple factors and the success or failure of any one team in athletic competition is only a small part of that. Much bigger factors would be fund raising and running an athletic program that doesn't run afoul of regulatory or "community" concerns. Coaches are fired eventually for the competitive failures of their teams.

Assumption 2: Athletic Directors are the most powerful persons at a university and they enjoy complete freedom in making decisions about athletics including hiring and firing.

Wrong! Athletic Directors serve at the pleasure of University Presidents. University Presidents are the ultimate authorities at universities. University Presidents are top administrators from an academic (not athletic!) background and they are all to one degree or another politicians.

I can't think of many areas where I agree with Barn Burner but I think he was accurate here when he stated there was a "committee" involved in this decision. Presidents are influenced by community and political concerns and therefore so are athletic directors indirectly. If Coyle really was like a professional team general manager and had complete autonomy in the hiring process and decision, I don't think he would have hired Ben Johnson.

Gary Barta made a horrific decision in 2007 by hiring Todd Lickliter as the head basketball coach and he's still going strong as the Iowa AD fourteen years later.
Good post!
 

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
3,070
Reaction score
1,188
Points
113
I am certain PJ is watching Coyle and thinking - I can do a better job as AD.
 




short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
11,630
Reaction score
3,381
Points
113
Talking about issues pre-Haskins:

Found this from March of '76:
(this is why the best team in school history was ineligible for an NCAA title)

The University of Minnesota was placed on probation for three years tonight as a result of violations in the conduct of its basketball program.

Sanctions imposed by the National Collegiate Athletic Association Committee on Infractions prohibit the Minnesota basketball team from participating in postseason competition during the first two years of the probationary period.

The university also will be held to three new basketball scholarships for the 1976‐77 and 1977‐78 academic years. Normally, six scholarships are permitted.

The N.C.A.A. customarily does not name violators publicly. It alleged last July that 98 violations had been committed from 1971 to 1975. Bill Musselman, who resigned last July, was head basketball coach at the time.

The N.C.A.A, said the violations “involved improper expenses, extra benefits and improper financial aid to student‐athletes, institutional responsibility, ethical conduct, the participation of ineligible student‐athletes in an N.C.A.A. championship event and numerous sections of N.C.A.A. recruiting legislation.”
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
11,302
Reaction score
1,707
Points
113
What is there to lose?
His job.
Coyle’s job.
Fan support.
5 years of opportunity cost.
There is a lot to lose.
Not saying Johnson can’t or won’t be successful, but I’m still waiting for the next bit of positive news. The Battle signing was the only one for me, so far. There’s been a whole lot of meh or bad news since then. I’m hoping he gets a couple top MN kids to commit soon, just to inject some ray of sunshine.
Those are all given if the Ben Johnson hire tanked. I am talking about truly turning Goher Basketball into a winning program. Not so much Mark Coyle.
 





howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
57,317
Reaction score
13,270
Points
113
Talking about issues pre-Haskins:

Found this from March of '76:
(this is why the best team in school history was ineligible for an NCAA title)

The University of Minnesota was placed on probation for three years tonight as a result of violations in the conduct of its basketball program.

Sanctions imposed by the National Collegiate Athletic Association Committee on Infractions prohibit the Minnesota basketball team from participating in postseason competition during the first two years of the probationary period.

The university also will be held to three new basketball scholarships for the 1976‐77 and 1977‐78 academic years. Normally, six scholarships are permitted.

The N.C.A.A. customarily does not name violators publicly. It alleged last July that 98 violations had been committed from 1971 to 1975. Bill Musselman, who resigned last July, was head basketball coach at the time.

The N.C.A.A, said the violations “involved improper expenses, extra benefits and improper financial aid to student‐athletes, institutional responsibility, ethical conduct, the participation of ineligible student‐athletes in an N.C.A.A. championship event and numerous sections of N.C.A.A. recruiting legislation.”
Per Reusse, most of the violations were use of a car some car dealer provided. Every time it left campus with a player inside it was a new violation. Seems laughable now.
 

LakerFan

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
1,666
Reaction score
299
Points
83
I'm a little concerned that 5 years from now instead of being worried that the program has dropped to a Monson era level we will start saying it has dropped to a Johnson era level.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
5,861
Reaction score
169
Points
63
No chance St. Thomas will be bad too?

It'll be interesting to see how the two programs are compared to each other. For example, is a 3rd place finish in the Summit better than a 7th place finish in the Big 10? Is an average St. Thomas team better than a bad Gopher team? I know how I would respond to those hypotheticals.
We should play them every year. It will get some local attention with the in-state angle, and we can smoke them every time out, that way we never have to worry about the argument that they were a better team.
 


Maguire

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
In my eyes Johnson is a gem. The few videos we've seen he is a Coach I would to play for . I can see what Coyle bought into. Good times are coming.
I agree, the more I learn about him, the more impressed I am.
 

From the Parkinglot

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Reaction score
814
Points
113
No chance St. Thomas will be bad too?

It'll be interesting to see how the two programs are compared to each other. For example, is a 3rd place finish in the Summit better than a 7th place finish in the Big 10? Is an average St. Thomas team better than a bad Gopher team? I know how I would respond to those hypotheticals.
Shit a 7th place finish in the conference would be be amazing considering how terrible this team has been since the 96/97 season.

even their good year in 04/05 they finished 5th in the big ten at 10-6.
 

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
3,070
Reaction score
1,188
Points
113
Ben is on kfan rt now. He is tough to interview. Lotta 5 word answers. Has Ben ever played for or coached on any winning team after high school.
 



Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
3,070
Reaction score
1,188
Points
113
Ben is on kfan rt now. He is tough to interview. Lotta 5 word answers. Has Ben ever played for or coached on any winning team after high school.
Hold up the interview was pretty good. Gaaaaaardsy asked him tough questions and Ben provided good lengthy answers.
 


MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
6,885
Points
113
OK, there are costs to failure here but I don't know that I agree with one of them you mentioned: Coyle's job.

Like many on this site, you are making conclusions based on faulty assumptions about the nature of University Athletic Directors.

Assumption 1: Athletic Directors are like Professional Team General Managers.

Wrong! Athletic Directors are first and foremost business managers who are responsible for the operations of an entire athletic department. Athletic success is based on multiple factors and the success or failure of any one team in athletic competition is only a small part of that. Much bigger factors would be fund raising and running an athletic program that doesn't run afoul of regulatory or "community" concerns. Coaches are fired eventually for the competitive failures of their teams.

Assumption 2: Athletic Directors are the most powerful persons at a university and they enjoy complete freedom in making decisions about athletics including hiring and firing.

Wrong! Athletic Directors serve at the pleasure of University Presidents. University Presidents are the ultimate authorities at universities. University Presidents are top administrators from an academic (not athletic!) background and they are all to one degree or another politicians.

I can't think of many areas where I agree with Barn Burner but I think he was accurate here when he stated there was a "committee" involved in this decision. Presidents are influenced by community and political concerns and therefore so are athletic directors indirectly. If Coyle really was like a professional team general manager and had complete autonomy in the hiring process and decision, I don't think he would have hired Ben Johnson.

Gary Barta made a horrific decision in 2007 by hiring Todd Lickliter as the head basketball coach and he's still going strong as the Iowa AD fourteen years later.
If you're P5, then football is what matters, unless you're one of a handful.

Coyle could walk out to center court during a Big Ten game, pull his trousers down, and lay a steaming deuce on the logo ....... and so long as Fleck and football are doing well, he wouldn't get fired.
 

Maguire

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Great interview. I like hearing how the current team has bought in over the summer.
Any chance someone could post a link of the interview? I can't seem to find it. Thank you.
 


Maguire

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
3,070
Reaction score
1,188
Points
113
So when gaaaaaardsy and Ben chuckled about a coach that placed the task of personally reaching out to recruits beneath him - that was about pitino junior…. Right?
 




Top Bottom