Hey Brewster Haters/Transfer complainers

oleboy41

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For everyone who moans and groans about our attrition rates and claim that there is somethign wrong with Brewster because guys have left or complain that we take too many risks on players and say that high profile programs don't take risks or don't have issues with guys transferring or not getting accepted, please look at the graphic below. Can we please stop acting like other programs don't deal with attrition?! And these are just the 4 and 5 star guys from some of the schools with the largest profiles.

attrition.jpg
 

EG#9

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In my opinion, your post illustrates the problem with this board. Instead of having valid discussions about pertinent issues to Gopher football, people get dragged in to posting about arguments that don't exist among actual Gopher fans. I think everyone who genuinely wants to see this program succeed knows that the attrition rates in Brewster's first two years are nothing unusual.

Instead of posting about the development of Adam Weber or how good the secondary could be if Brock gets back in to school, people feel the need to prove factual information to a couple of idiots who don't care about the truth, only their hurt feelings. My favorite quotes about "this Brewster" are that 1. he needs to win Big Ten games (as the coach "this Wren" loved won a whopping 37.5% of his Big Ten games over a DECADE) and that 2. he needs to graduate players, which if "this poster" was paying attention he'd realize that "this Brewster" has raised the team GPA here.

So thanks for posting the facts Oleboy, but the thread will probably devolve in to how we "won" with 2 star and no star players like Eslinger, Barber, etc and ignore the vast majority of similarly low rated/unrated recruits under the previous coach that never accomplished anything...never mind the fact that we never even finished 3rd in our own conference. But Brewster was supposed to do in 2 years what the previous coach couldn't do in 10... it will never end with certain people.
 


ulfr

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Oh yes the "actual fan" bit... Because real fans don't care if the team doesn't win until 2011...

As one of the Hole's resident non-Brewster-enthusiast who genuinely wants him to succeed but all too often can't tolerate the man himself, I'll take this bait, Eg9.

Brewsterhater being anybody who isn't all aboard the BrewExpress: He wasn't my favorite candidate for the job, yet somehow he sucked me in with his 'sooner rather than later' rhetoric; he then shat the '07 season down his leg looking utterly amateurish in the process, whilst I had to endure my roommate ( a gopherhole staffer I'll add, and you know who you are, traitor) turn coat for the the damn Bison in one of two of the worst humiliations I've seen in 10 years as season ticket holder (the recent 55-0 spanking being the other, with myriad Masonic collapses all slightly behind)... Lets just say I had a bad start with the man, Brewsterhater being a little to harsh or not. Back on the ranch...

Looking at the plagerized rivals chart it really doesn't show much relevance to a first year coach practically losing his entire first recruiting class to attrition, but I assume you will argue he had the deck stacked against him in the scramble to sign anybody, and with attrition in college being part of the game that we should all just chill, leave, die in fiery auto wreck, etc.

Let us all hope that Brewster finds more kids who can get into school and stay there academically and leave it at that and allow me to add that I appreciate what he is up against. It is hard to get the true gems of great academics and athleticism with focus to excel in both for 3 to 5 years; such 17 year olds being as rare as the competition is stiff.

Assuming that Brock is gone and discussing his future impact on the secondary bears no more relevance than discussing Bronko Nagurski reborn with Jesus playing free saftey, let me try to find another constructive line of discussion.

What are reasonable expectations for this club between now and the senior year of the 2008 freshmen? I mean Big Ten wins are/were the primary goal in his hiring. So yes "this Brewster" was hired to improve upon 37 percent, that being the raison d'etre of signing him.

I would count this season as progress if we win 6 games and knock off either Wisconsin or Iowa in the process given the stiffening of the schedule. I would appreciate a "signature win" , which I would argue Brewster has failed to really accomplish. 4 or 3 would be a disappointment. 2 or less wins and I might be out to egg his house. 8 or 9 wins would be serious improvement, and beyond that and I might stop quoting "sooner rather than later" on this site...

So what say ye to this non-100%-Brewster-backing Gopher fan, what is a reasonable expectation for the coming season?
 

oleboy41

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First off, the image isn't plagurized as it isn't premium info. Secondly I don't count most fans as Brewster haters, only those who hate the coach to the point where they don't want the team to have success under him so that he'll be fired or those that constantly rip the coach for things that are not legitimate, such as blaming him completely for the APR score, complaining about the 4 or 5 guys who didn't make it academically and ignoring that this happens everywhere, and other similar things.

As for a reasonable expectation, I think 7 wins is reasonable. Personally I think 9 wins is very doable this year but I also know I'm very optimistic
 


minngg

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I have no problem with fans that do not like Brewster. I disliked Mason for the last 5 years he was here. But at least I was honest in my arguments for wanting him fired. He had improved the team to a point and could not get over the hump. Thanks Glen for your service but we need to try someone else.

Here comes Brewster. The spin was that Brewster was inhereting a solid bowl team from Mason. Only a football novice would agree with such a scenario. The defensive talent left on this team was barely above Div II levels. Introducing new schemes with poor talent was a recipe for disaster. Yer Brewster made some mistakes with his coordinators, but again he was working from a talent pool that was leftovers since almost every other staff in the country was already hired. The previous year, we beat NDSU only because of a blocked field goal at the end of the game. NDSU brought almost everyone back. We lost key components including our 5th year Senior QB. Much like Wisconsin with Cal Poly last year, we were facing a highly ranked Div 1A team. The outcome was predictable and yes, embarrassing.

I am not making excuses for Brewster. These are facts. I have one rule I use when judging new coaches. Give the coach a chance to win with his own players before judging the man. Too many times good coaches have lost in their first few years only to be successful. With the talent Brewster is bringing in, it would be a shame if he can't coach them well. We will see.
 

GoAUpher

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Oh yes the "actual fan" bit... Because real fans don't care if the team doesn't win until 2011...

As one of the Hole's resident non-Brewster-enthusiast who genuinely wants him to succeed but all too often can't tolerate the man himself, I'll take this bait, Eg9.

Brewsterhater being anybody who isn't all aboard the BrewExpress: He wasn't my favorite candidate for the job, yet somehow he sucked me in with his 'sooner rather than later' rhetoric; he then shat the '07 season down his leg looking utterly amateurish in the process, whilst I had to endure my roommate ( a gopherhole staffer I'll add, and you know who you are, traitor) turn coat for the the damn Bison in one of two of the worst humiliations I've seen in 10 years as season ticket holder (the recent 55-0 spanking being the other, with myriad Masonic collapses all slightly behind)... Lets just say I had a bad start with the man, Brewsterhater being a little to harsh or not. Back on the ranch...

Looking at the plagerized rivals chart it really doesn't show much relevance to a first year coach practically losing his entire first recruiting class to attrition, but I assume you will argue he had the deck stacked against him in the scramble to sign anybody, and with attrition in college being part of the game that we should all just chill, leave, die in fiery auto wreck, etc.

Let us all hope that Brewster finds more kids who can get into school and stay there academically and leave it at that and allow me to add that I appreciate what he is up against. It is hard to get the true gems of great academics and athleticism with focus to excel in both for 3 to 5 years; such 17 year olds being as rare as the competition is stiff.

Assuming that Brock is gone and discussing his future impact on the secondary bears no more relevance than discussing Bronko Nagurski reborn with Jesus playing free saftey, let me try to find another constructive line of discussion.

What are reasonable expectations for this club between now and the senior year of the 2008 freshmen? I mean Big Ten wins are/were the primary goal in his hiring. So yes "this Brewster" was hired to improve upon 37 percent, that being the raison d'etre of signing him.

I would count this season as progress if we win 6 games and knock off either Wisconsin or Iowa in the process given the stiffening of the schedule. I would appreciate a "signature win" , which I would argue Brewster has failed to really accomplish. 4 or 3 would be a disappointment. 2 or less wins and I might be out to egg his house. 8 or 9 wins would be serious improvement, and beyond that and I might stop quoting "sooner rather than later" on this site...

So what say ye to this non-100%-Brewster-backing Gopher fan, what is a reasonable expectation for the coming season?

Well put Ulfr...I like a lot of what you have to say here. I agree that 6 wins with a signature win would still show progress given the increase in difficulty we face this year. There is no reason we shouldn't win 6 this season. Above than, I don't think we can make any assumptions/demands (though I'd prefer 7 so casual fans don't think we took a step back). I'd love 8, but that's as high as I'm willing to dream right now.
 

dinkything

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For everyone who moans and groans about our attrition rates and claim that there is somethign wrong with Brewster because guys have left or complain that we take too many risks on players and say that high profile programs don't take risks or don't have issues with guys transferring or not getting accepted, please look at the graphic below. Can we please stop acting like other programs don't deal with attrition?! And these are just the 4 and 5 star guys from some of the schools with the largest profiles.

attrition.jpg


oleboy41,

don't have much time to get into the 'meat' of the grid you provided, but i would have two quick comments:

1. who did the math??:eek::eek::eek: looks to me that miami's attrition rate is way overstated....21% vs. something closer to 10-1/2% :(:(:(

2. some of the stud programs you referenced have been known to suffer 'attrition' by having numerous '3 and done' players, who go on to become 1st round nfl draft choices after their junior year, buried in the data (i.e. beanie wells):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

if the gopher program gets to a point where part of its attrition is a result of guys leaving early to become 1st round nfl draft choices, then i would say that is evidence the program would be starting to arrive...:D:D:D

sorry for raining on your rivals grid, 41...:D:D:D
 




oleboy41

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oleboy41,

don't have much time to get into the 'meat' of the grid you provided, but i would have two quick comments:

1. who did the math??:eek::eek::eek: looks to me that miami's attrition rate is way overstated....21% vs. something closer to 10-1/2% :(:(:(

2. some of the stud programs you referenced have been known to suffer 'attrition' by having numerous '3 and done' players, who go on to become 1st round nfl draft choices after their junior year, buried in the data (i.e. beanie wells):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

if the gopher program gets to a point where part of its attrition is a result of guys leaving early to become 1st round nfl draft choices, then i would say that is evidence the program would be starting to arrive...:D:D:D

sorry for raining on your rivals grid, 41...:D:D:D


1 - yea somebody screwed that math there
2 - there are very few guys on that list who've gone pro after their true junior years. Harvin, Stafford and Wells are the only ones I can think of. That still doesn't change the fact that most of those teams have had way more attrition than we have and with higher ranked players
 

EG#9

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Oh yes the "actual fan" bit... Because real fans don't care if the team doesn't win until 2011...

As one of the Hole's resident non-Brewster-enthusiast who genuinely wants him to succeed but all too often can't tolerate the man himself, I'll take this bait, Eg9.

Brewsterhater being anybody who isn't all aboard the BrewExpress: He wasn't my favorite candidate for the job, yet somehow he sucked me in with his 'sooner rather than later' rhetoric; he then shat the '07 season down his leg looking utterly amateurish in the process, whilst I had to endure my roommate ( a gopherhole staffer I'll add, and you know who you are, traitor) turn coat for the the damn Bison in one of two of the worst humiliations I've seen in 10 years as season ticket holder (the recent 55-0 spanking being the other, with myriad Masonic collapses all slightly behind)... Lets just say I had a bad start with the man, Brewsterhater being a little to harsh or not. Back on the ranch...

I certainly don't consider anyone who isn't all aboard the "BrewExpress" a "hater", but I don't understand not giving a new coach your full support and every benefit of the doubt for his first few years. None of the losses in Brewster's era have been more embarassing than the collapses against Michigan, the humiliations at Kinnick(with a more talented team), or the epic meltdown against Texas Tech. I will allow that the 55-0 game in which the Gophers did not even show up was absolutely one of my worst moments as a fan, but the season was lost by that point with poor losses to Michigan and Northwestern. I"ve been as critical as anyone over how the team badly underachieved to finish the past season.

Looking at the plagerized rivals chart it really doesn't show much relevance to a first year coach practically losing his entire first recruiting class to attrition, but I assume you will argue he had the deck stacked against him in the scramble to sign anybody, and with attrition in college being part of the game that we should all just chill, leave, die in fiery auto wreck, etc.

Brewster's first recruiting class was a Top 20 class and very highly regarded. Claiming he has responsiblity for a class that was 80% Mason's is a joke and shows a major bias.

Let us all hope that Brewster finds more kids who can get into school and stay there academically and leave it at that and allow me to add that I appreciate what he is up against. It is hard to get the true gems of great academics and athleticism with focus to excel in both for 3 to 5 years; such 17 year olds being as rare as the competition is stiff.

He has been doing exactly that. The APR is on the rise at Minnesota, not on the decline.

Assuming that Brock is gone and discussing his future impact on the secondary bears no more relevance than discussing Bronko Nagurski reborn with Jesus playing free saftey, let me try to find another constructive line of discussion.

Brock is currently at a JUCO attempting to get eligible. His future impact on the secondary would be significant if he was able to get back in to school. Brock and Royston at Safety with Sherels and Simmons at Corner would have the potential to be the best Gopher secondary in a very long time.

What are reasonable expectations for this club between now and the senior year of the 2008 freshmen? I mean Big Ten wins are/were the primary goal in his hiring. So yes "this Brewster" was hired to improve upon 37 percent, that being the raison d'etre of signing him.

Brewster got up to 37 percent in his 2nd year as head coach. I don't think anyone will be happy with 3-5 conference records for long. I am all for high expectations, I think it's realistic to expect a winning Big Ten record by year 4.

I would count this season as progress if we win 6 games and knock off either Wisconsin or Iowa in the process given the stiffening of the schedule. I would appreciate a "signature win" , which I would argue Brewster has failed to really accomplish. 4 or 3 would be a disappointment. 2 or less wins and I might be out to egg his house. 8 or 9 wins would be serious improvement, and beyond that and I might stop quoting "sooner rather than later" on this site...

I think beating Wisconsin or Iowa is a must, going 0-4 against those 2 teams is absolutely unacceptable, so making it 0-6 would be very Mason like. If you think 6 wins is good enough then I certainly don't see why you would consider yourself a Brewster hater.

So what say ye to this non-100%-Brewster-backing Gopher fan, what is a reasonable expectation for the coming season?

I think you should back the coach who's had 2 years to work at a program that has never had a significant season in most of our lifetimes. The guy is clearly working hard and has brought in a couple of great recruiting classes. I could understand not being behind the guy if he's had 4 years, but he's had 2. Nobody was going to come to Minnesota with it's depleted roster and go to a January 1 or better Bowl in year 1 or 2.
 

Schlic Daddy

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oleboy41,

don't have much time to get into the 'meat' of the grid you provided, but i would have two quick comments:

1. who did the math??:eek::eek::eek: looks to me that miami's attrition rate is way overstated....21% vs. something closer to 10-1/2% :(:(:(

2. some of the stud programs you referenced have been known to suffer 'attrition' by having numerous '3 and done' players, who go on to become 1st round nfl draft choices after their junior year, buried in the data (i.e. beanie wells):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

if the gopher program gets to a point where part of its attrition is a result of guys leaving early to become 1st round nfl draft choices, then i would say that is evidence the program would be starting to arrive...:D:D:D

sorry for raining on your rivals grid, 41...:D:D:D

I'm guessing that the percentages are total players--not just 4 or 5 star players. But that's just a guess.
 




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