Henley in portal

Bob_Loblaw

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Scholarships are guaranteed for four years, under certain conditions, by NCAA rules. But agree that is still not the same thing as the negotiated contracts of pros.

If you’re saying non-competes are similarly very different, then I’ll take your word on that.


I think as long as players are required to be concurrently enrolled full-time in the school and in good academic standing to be eligible to compete (and thus also to not void the contract with cause), then it makes perfect sense for college players to migrate to a contract system and have a collective bargaining union.
Non-competes aren't very similar to scholarships, I'm just saying more and more jurisdictions are finding non-competes to be unreasonable restraints on trade unless they extremely surgical.
 

Gophers_4life

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Non-competes aren't very similar to scholarships, I'm just saying more and more jurisdictions are finding non-competes to be unreasonable restraints on trade unless they extremely surgical.
Sorry, I meant aren’t in the previous post and fat fingered it.
 

Tucker32

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It's 100% fact that the U NILs will not offer NIL to incoming recruits or transfers. They will tell them that there are opportunities for them once they get established here. But it's not used as a recruiting tool. Do some research on it or listen to Derek Burns on a podcast explain it. It's all very available info.
That’s not totally accurate. And, before you lecture me again, I do know from folks closer to the situation in hoops than Derek Burns, who I also know.
 


bga1

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That’s not totally accurate. And, before you lecture me again, I do know from folks closer to the situation in hoops than Derek Burns, who I also know.
So, will we "offer" or try to help get offers that are more lucrative for higher end guys or do we do this in a more "spread the wealth around" fashion here?

Again, my question to whoever can answer it is- are we effectively using it to go after better guys or are we just taking care of all of the kids out of a pool?

If we are using it to go after higher end guys- then you get a better response from big donors...who want to see a direct impact in performance for their dollars.
 




Gophers_4life

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Tell us exactly how it works then, please.
Not trying to start or exacerbate a pissing match.

Just genuinely curious if there is something you can point to, that isn’t behind a paywall, showing that the Gopher NIL collective (whatever it is called) will not work with guys who’ve just got to campus and haven’t “proven themselves” on the field/court yet?
 




bga1

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So the DTA site does offer a nice overview- https://dinkytownathletes.com/our-athletes/

Every Gopher basketball player is listed here so this confirms what I had heard- they spread it around. However, in the FAQs on the site they do say that an individual athlete can negotiate their own deals. No information on how they treat recruits who haven't signed yet.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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So the DTA site does offer a nice overview- https://dinkytownathletes.com/our-athletes/

Every Gopher basketball player is listed here so this confirms what I had heard- they spread it around. However, in the FAQs on the site they do say that an individual athlete can negotiate their own deals. No information on how they treat recruits who haven't signed yet.
How often do they update this? Seem like Tanner Morgan shouldn't be on this any more... And why is Isaiah Ihnen getting NIL...?Maybe take it away and it solves our problem of him taking up a scholarship...
 

disco

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So the DTA site does offer a nice overview- https://dinkytownathletes.com/our-athletes/

Every Gopher basketball player is listed here so this confirms what I had heard- they spread it around. However, in the FAQs on the site they do say that an individual athlete can negotiate their own deals. No information on how they treat recruits who haven't signed yet.
I think what many of us are assuming, is that the schools are working in conjunction with the boosters to hook up the top stars with individual deals to get them on campus or to keep them happy. And also that the U won't do this because being equal, and because it's technically against the rules (which don't appear to be enforced).
 

howeda7

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How often do they update this? Seem like Tanner Morgan shouldn't be on this any more... And why is Isaiah Ihnen getting NIL...?Maybe take it away and it solves our problem of him taking up a scholarship...
Ihnen taking a scholarship is a problem? Seriously? At this rate Jackson Purcell will have one. Ihnen having one is not remotely a problem. Plus Purcell is listed on Dinkytown as well, so it obviously has no direct bearing on NIL.
 




Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I can't remember where I heard this (Schein On Sports - Mad Dog Radio maybe), but the topic of NIL deals and what they will evolve into came up...this was following the college football bowl season, in which many top players sit out to protect themselves from injury (and their draft status).

They were discussing that there was a an expensive NIL deal with Spencer Rattler, the former Oklahoma QB, who played sparingly as a true freshmen, but then won the job as a sophomore...only to lose his job after his JR season to star freshmen Caleb Williams (who transferred after his sophomore season and just won the Heisman at USC *southern Cal). After Rattler lost his job, he transfer to USC (South Carolina) and put up so-so numbers in 2022. (so a Oklahoma car dealership had an NIL deal with the starting quarterback who transferred to an out of state school...to a place where they did not have dealerships...).

The guy on the podcast said this, along with stars sitting out of bowl games is going to quickly create changes to the NIL contract structures. For example, in the near future, that same Oklahoma car company will only give the expensive NIL deal to the starting qb of Oklahoma, and only the starting QB will get the money. If you get benched, you lose your money. Also, there will be a big % of the NIL deal that will be backloaded to bowl games (or in basketball's case...March Madness).

These NIL deals will evolve to performance and appearance based contracts. A perfect example of a potential future deal would be Dennis Evans. Yeah someone paid him (maybe) $500K go to to Louisville, but if he never performs or doesn't crack the lineup, it's just a 1 time payment (which would be backloaded and have strings attached around playing time and March madness *maybe minutes per game)....that $500K could quickly turn into $40K if he doesn't met the stipulations of the contract.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Ihnen taking a scholarship is a problem? Seriously? At this rate Jackson Purcell will have one. Ihnen having one is not remotely a problem. Plus Purcell is listed on Dinkytown as well, so it obviously has no direct bearing on NIL.
them both having one is a problem
 

WriterGoph

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Not trying to start or exacerbate a pissing match.

Just genuinely curious if there is something you can point to, that isn’t behind a paywall, showing that the Gopher NIL collective (whatever it is called) will not work with guys who’ve just got to campus and haven’t “proven themselves” on the field/court yet?

I want to genuinely know too, as Tucker is claiming inside knowledge that obviously conflicts with all the research some of us have done.
 

short ornery norwegian

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part of the problem with "NIL" is that the same term is used to describe two very different situations.

under NIL, Dawson Garcia can market his own T-Shirts, make endorsements, or sign autographs at Fred's Used Car Lot for $$.

and then there is the kind of NIL where some rich booster promises a recruit a 6-figure deal if he agrees to sign with Directional State.

as far as I know, the U of MN is doing the first kind of NIL through Dinkytown Athletes - and individual athletes are free to make their own deals if they choose.

now, the second kind of NIL - if Mr. Rich Gopher Booster is making 5-figure or 6-figure offers to recruits, they are keeping it very well hidden.

but, theoretically, there is nothing stopping any wealthy person from setting up their own Gopher Hoops NIL fund and making offers to recruits (probably funneled through the AAU coaches).

all it takes is someone who
A. has money, and
B. is willing to spend that money to help recruits "choose" the Gophers.

I would be happy to do it if I had the money. I don't have the money.
 


bga1

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I think what many of us are assuming, is that the schools are working in conjunction with the boosters to hook up the top stars with individual deals to get them on campus or to keep them happy. And also that the U won't do this because being equal, and because it's technically against the rules (which don't appear to be enforced).
How could you not work with the school? Nobody is going to offer a kid an NIL deal if they are going to sit on the bench- at least not much of one. Somehow, our wingspan man is getting a big offer before landing anywhere and that certainly has to be coordinated. If we are going to do this at all- then we should do it effectively and right to the legal line.

If these college deals are now considered jobs for these kids- who goes to work without knowing what they are going to get paid? The NCAA knows that a lot of the big boys are coordinating with boosters- just clarify that it either is or is not against the rules to do so. If they know that they could never enforce against coordination in the courts then just open it up and go full on pro. To do anything else is dishonest by the NCAA.
 

atsgopher

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I can't remember where I heard this (Schein On Sports - Mad Dog Radio maybe), but the topic of NIL deals and what they will evolve into came up...this was following the college football bowl season, in which many top players sit out to protect themselves from injury (and their draft status).

They were discussing that there was a an expensive NIL deal with Spencer Rattler, the former Oklahoma QB, who played sparingly as a true freshmen, but then won the job as a sophomore...only to lose his job after his JR season to star freshmen Caleb Williams (who transferred after his sophomore season and just won the Heisman at USC *southern Cal). After Rattler lost his job, he transfer to USC (South Carolina) and put up so-so numbers in 2022. (so a Oklahoma car dealership had an NIL deal with the starting quarterback who transferred to an out of state school...to a place where they did not have dealerships...).

The guy on the podcast said this, along with stars sitting out of bowl games is going to quickly create changes to the NIL contract structures. For example, in the near future, that same Oklahoma car company will only give the expensive NIL deal to the starting qb of Oklahoma, and only the starting QB will get the money. If you get benched, you lose your money. Also, there will be a big % of the NIL deal that will be backloaded to bowl games (or in basketball's case...March Madness).

These NIL deals will evolve to performance and appearance based contracts. A perfect example of a potential future deal would be Dennis Evans. Yeah someone paid him (maybe) $500K go to to Louisville, but if he never performs or doesn't crack the lineup, it's just a 1 time payment (which would be backloaded and have strings attached around playing time and March madness *maybe minutes per game)....that $500K could quickly turn into $40K if he doesn't met the stipulations of the contract.
Two of the only NIL rules the NCAA kept are:
1) no pay for performance.
2) no pay directly tied to choosing a particular school.

Also, this applies to boosters of any school.

Obviously, there is a difference between the rules as practiced, and the rules as followed.
 

tikited

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Henley wasn't very good but very few true freshman are very good. You need to start somewhere. Henley had moments where he looked good to me and he is the type of player where, if good, could be special. He is a legitimate 6'7" wing who is more advanced defensively than offensively.

Does he ever pan out? Hard to say. If I had to bet, he'll be a good college basketball player.

As to why people are complaining despite Henley's current production - - it's because we have to start somewhere. For many people, we struggled through the play of Carrington, JOJ, and Henley this year with the hope that they would grow into something better.
Again, Henley was the only player willing, and able, to drive to the basket. That's how unbelievably bad this team was. This is a loss for sure.
 

bga1

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part of the problem with "NIL" is that the same term is used to describe two very different situations.

under NIL, Dawson Garcia can market his own T-Shirts, make endorsements, or sign autographs at Fred's Used Car Lot for $$.

and then there is the kind of NIL where some rich booster promises a recruit a 6-figure deal if he agrees to sign with Directional State.

as far as I know, the U of MN is doing the first kind of NIL through Dinkytown Athletes - and individual athletes are free to make their own deals if they choose.

now, the second kind of NIL - if Mr. Rich Gopher Booster is making 5-figure or 6-figure offers to recruits, they are keeping it very well hidden.

but, theoretically, there is nothing stopping any wealthy person from setting up their own Gopher Hoops NIL fund and making offers to recruits (probably funneled through the AAU coaches).

all it takes is someone who
A. has money, and
B. is willing to spend that money to help recruits "choose" the Gophers.

I would be happy to do it if I had the money. I don't have the money.
There is no way that this could be done without coordination between booster and coaches. How would the booster know who to offer? I am all for it though. This isn't amateur sports anymore- obviously.
 

Holy Man

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Where he was from didn’t exclude him from the ability to transfer.
No, but to expect that someone not familiar with with our culture or the culture of college basketball to take "a hint" he should go, is not realistic. I'm suggesting we all give him a break, especially since he may have been far closer to what college sports are supposed to be than most guys in high major are. It's not fair to expect people dropped into our culture, language and subtleties to know what it all means. For him, it meant getting an education. I'm quite okay with that.
 

bga1

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Two of the only NIL rules the NCAA kept are:
1) no pay for performance.
2) no pay directly tied to choosing a particular school.

Also, this applies to boosters of any school.

Obviously, there is a difference between the rules as practiced, and the rules as followed.
#2 is easily beaten. The booster just has to write the contract such that the recipient lives in xxxxx zip code, is regularly available for appearances, photos, etc and plays basketball. Hey coach- who are you after this year and which ones need a little help. Got it. I'll get in contact.
 


CentralGopher

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No, but to expect that someone not familiar with with our culture or the culture of college basketball to take "a hint" he should go, is not realistic. I'm suggesting we all give him a break, especially since he may have been far closer to what college sports are supposed to be than most guys in high major are. It's not fair to expect people dropped into our culture, language and subtleties to know what it all means. For him, it meant getting an education. I'm quite okay with that.
I don’t disagree. I also don’t think Pitino deserves any kind of credit for not running him off though. Who knows what GD wanted out of his experience and what discussions happened behind closed doors.
 

disco

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but, theoretically, there is nothing stopping any wealthy person from setting up their own Gopher Hoops NIL fund and making offers to recruits (probably funneled through the AAU coaches).

all it takes is someone who
A. has money, and
B. is willing to spend that money to help recruits "choose" the Gophers.

I would be happy to do it if I had the money. I don't have the money.
I would as well if I were some billionaire.

I said this when this all started happening with NIL - it's far easier with basketball too, though I was talking about football at the time. If I were a billionaire who went to say some really small, minor D1 school - Let's say New Jersey IT - what would stop me from dropping 5 million each to the five or six best players in the college game and building a super team with them?

I still think we're going to see this happen. It's a lot less expensive than say, buying an NBA team, and it's still basically your plaything.
 

disco

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Hell, you could just pick some tiny, poor, remote school like Finlandia University and try this as an experiment if you were some eccentric billionaire. Basically just buy the school and see if you could do this.
 





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