Henderson update via ESPN

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Sportsfan24 said:
Nobody spends tens of thousands of dollars to be "seen," that's absurd. You spend the money to educate your children.
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I hope you're joking with that comment. That is the definition of AAU basketball along with many other private schools. Or how about families "moving" so their child can play at a better School. Perfect example is Royce White on the men's bb team. Kicked out of DLS, so his family MOVES to the Hopkins school district? But that was just for the education, correct?
 

ust4life said:
I hope you're joking with that comment. That is the definition of AAU basketball along with many other private schools. Or how about families "moving" so their child can play at a better School. Perfect example is Royce White on the men's bb team. Kicked out of DLS, so his family MOVES to the Hopkins school district? But that was just for the education, correct?
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First, Royve White reportedly moved in with his Grandfather, his family didn't move. Second, players rarely pay much more than a few bucks out of pocket for AAU. Those teams are sponsered and get donations (some of the shady variety). Do you really think every potential D1 player in the nation can afford to pay thousands of dollars to play AAU? YOu must since almost all of those guys play AAU ball.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Mason's relationship with the CDH coaches had no effect on player recruitment. What did have an effect was that Mason seldom if ever would bother to drive 15 minutes over to the school while Charlie Weis, Barry Alvarez and a number of other coaches would travel hundreds of miles. Truth be told, Mason did not recruit very hard.

As a parent of a CDH athlete and friends with the parents of several dozen other recruited athletes, I have never heard a negative word from the CDH staff about attending the University of Minnesota
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That is fair. Whether it was the laziness of Mason or the relationship w/ coaches doesn't matter, my point was that you can't take recruiting results under Mason and say that they are relevant to the current situation. If you did people would say that we couldn't pull in 4 players from Skyline, Gray, Green, Carter, etc.
 

Yeah, but you are forgetting that Carufel and Royston saw the light and came back to the Gophers!!! That would be 5 on the Gophers squad.


dpodoll68 said:
I noticed a change in Henderson's favorites on ESPN.com's recruiting site this morning. For the past few months, the U has always been listed 3rd or 4th. Now, we are relegated to the "also recruited by" list, with FSU taking our place in the top 5. As much as we all want Henderson here, he is as good as gone.

By the way, I will gladly eat crow if I am wrong.



By any definition of the word, it is indeed bailing on your home district when you choose to go somewhere else. It can, at the same time, also be going elsewhere for a better opportunity. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You are wrong about Cretin. Take a look at the most recent Cretin players who accepted D-IA scholarship offers:

Michael Floyd - Notre Dame
Joe Schafer - Wisconsin
Shady Salamon - Minnesota
John Nance - Minnesota
Broderick Binns - Iowa
Matt Carufel - Notre Dame
Kim Royston - Wisconsin
Rafael Eubanks - Iowa
Ned Tavale - Minnesota
Reggie Rock - Iowa St.
Ryan Harris - Notre Dame
Joe Mauer - Florida St.

Three out of 12 committed to Minnesota. John Nance had no other D-IA offers. Shady chose us over Missouri. Nedward chose us over Iowa St. and Illinois (where he didn't even visit). So 2 guys in the last 9 years (who didn't have equivalent or "better" offers) chose the Gophers. If that's not a pipeline out of Minnesota, I don't know what is.
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Geez... people sure do get protective of their Raiders from CDH. I don't think they need this protection because I'm not attacking them or their school. I have said more than once it is their choice to play at CDH and go out of state for their college careers and I don't hold that against them. I'm simply saying CDH athletes have made the choice to leave their home districts to play elsewhere at the HS level so it is logical to assume they don't have a problem passing on the home state university when their talents bring in offers from higher profile colleges. That's all I am saying, I'm not saying it is WRONG. I think the CDH player choices speak for themselves. When given the opportunity to out of state, they usually take it. I would think that point would be hard to argue but I guess this is the internet. I hope the trend reverses in the future but if it doesn't, I will continue to wish them well and not hold it against them as if I were some sort of buck toothed homer.

A couple points to be made after the recent posts:

1. I've seen a couple posts trying to say with a straight face that all these fine athletes are at CDH for the academics, and it is crazy to think parents will spend money just for a better sports program. I do take issue with that. Anyone saying that has not seen the state of youth sports, let alone high school sports. Again, nothing wrong with attending CDH but are we really supposed to believe that this school, with an enrollement half the size of many of the schools they are pounding on a regular basis, just happens to get that many great athletes by chance, every year, for decades?

2. I believe the sky is blue on a cloudless day at noon.

argue on...
 

Schnauzer said:
Geez... people sure do get protective of their Raiders from CDH. I don't think they need this protection because I'm not attacking them or their school. I have said more than once it is their choice to play at CDH and go out of state for their college careers and I don't hold that against them. I'm simply saying CDH athletes have made the choice to leave their home districts to play elsewhere at the HS level so it is logical to assume they don't have a problem passing on the home state university when their talents bring in offers from higher profile colleges. That's all I am saying, I'm not saying it is WRONG. I think the CDH player choices speak for themselves. When given the opportunity to out of state, they usually take it. I would think that point would be hard to argue but I guess this is the internet. I hope the trend reverses in the future but if it doesn't, I will continue to wish them well and not hold it against them as if I were some sort of buck toothed homer.

A couple points to be made after the recent posts:

1. I've seen a couple posts trying to say with a straight face that all these fine athletes are at CDH for the academics, and it is crazy to think parents will spend money just for a better sports program. I do take issue with that. Anyone saying that has not seen the state of youth sports, let alone high school sports. Again, nothing wrong with attending CDH but are we really supposed to believe that this school, with an enrollement half the size of many of the schools they are pounding on a regular basis, just happens to get that many great athletes by chance, every year, for decades?

2. I believe the sky is blue on a cloudless day at noon.

argue on...
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I'm not protecting anyone, I just thought you would like some FACTS from a person on the inside.
No? Cool, let's go with you scenerio then.

Parents take their 6 year old sons and daughters and put them in private school all in the hope of them one day attending CDH so they can become D1 athletes. Sounds good to me. No, that's not what you meant?

Sarcasm aside I will say it again. Schnauzer the majority if CDH students (athletes included) were either in private school long before they reached CDH age or they are siblings/children of CDH alum. CDH is only a continued natural progression of their private school education.

Your point about youth sports and highschool sports is understood but there is one large exception. It cost lots of money to go to private school. We are talking $40,000 - $50,000 for a four year education. Scholarships you asked? It still will cost ten of thousands of dollars.

If it's about sports why, why would someone pay, when they can send their child to....let's say Wayzata Highschool which has open enrollment and transportation along with some of the best sports teams in the state, for free?

You only pay when that's the only or best option. There are plenty of great public schools to play for that will not cost a time.

Just like every other successful school, CDH may have the exception where a kid transfers in for athletics but that's the exception not the rule. And because CDH costs money it happens much less at CDH than it does at public schools. Now if you want to argue that kids/parents who choose to go the private school route choose CDH because of sports.....I will concede that.

On a side note: Can anyone please tell me how to get rid of this stupid picture? I deleted it from my whatcha ma callit but it keeps showing up.
 

Schnauzer said:
Geez... people sure do get protective of their Raiders from CDH. I don't think they need this protection because I'm not attacking them or their school. I have said more than once it is their choice to play at CDH and go out of state for their college careers and I don't hold that against them. I'm simply saying CDH athletes have made the choice to leave their home districts to play elsewhere at the HS level so it is logical to assume they don't have a problem passing on the home state university when their talents bring in offers from higher profile colleges. That's all I am saying, I'm not saying it is WRONG. I think the CDH player choices speak for themselves. When given the opportunity to out of state, they usually take it. I would think that point would be hard to argue but I guess this is the internet. I hope the trend reverses in the future but if it doesn't, I will continue to wish them well and not hold it against them as if I were some sort of buck toothed homer.

A couple points to be made after the recent posts:

1. I've seen a couple posts trying to say with a straight face that all these fine athletes are at CDH for the academics, and it is crazy to think parents will spend money just for a better sports program. I do take issue with that. Anyone saying that has not seen the state of youth sports, let alone high school sports. Again, nothing wrong with attending CDH but are we really supposed to believe that this school, with an enrollement half the size of many of the schools they are pounding on a regular basis, just happens to get that many great athletes by chance, every year, for decades?

2. I believe the sky is blue on a cloudless day at noon.

argue on...
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The only thing I'm disputing is your insinuation that the behavior of CDH kids is somehow different from that of kids that go to school in their district. Recent history has shown that when given the opportunity to go out of state (and to a better program) local kids from every local powerhouse have taken it. Your argument is kind of like saying 'kids from Minnesota like macaroni and cheese' and ignoring the fact that kids all over like it too. All I'm saying is that choosing to go to CDH or any other school out of your district has no bearing on their decisions to stay home or leave state. As someone else said correlation doesn't equal causation.
 

I am in "agree to disagree" mode on that and mentioned that earlier. If many other Minn schools equal CDH and run in the 80-90% range on players holding Minn offers but choosing to go out of state instead, I will stand corrected. And, like I also said... there isn't anything wrong with it. There are no "bad guys" here.
 



Schnauzer said:
I am in "agree to disagree" mode on that and mentioned that earlier. If many other Minn schools equal CDH and run in the 80-90% range on players holding Minn offers but choosing to go out of state instead, I will stand corrected. And, like I also said... there isn't anything wrong with it. There are no "bad guys" here.
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I concur (agree to disagree). I'm sure we can all agree, that we hope there comes a time when kids play college football out of state only because the gophers have used up all their scholoarships signing Mn kids!
 

Schnauzer said:
I am in "agree to disagree" mode on that and mentioned that earlier. If many other Minn schools equal CDH and run in the 80-90% range on players holding Minn offers but choosing to go out of state instead, I will stand corrected. And, like I also said... there isn't anything wrong with it. There are no "bad guys" here.
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Eden Prairie the last 5 years.
2009
Corey Frazier held Minnesota offer committed to Rice.
2008
Willie Mobley held Minnesota offer committed to OSU.
Ryan Grant committed to Minnesota w/ no outside offers.
2007
Ryan Orton committed to Minnesota w/ no outside offers.
Blake Sorenson held Minnesota offer committed to Wisconsin.
Bryce McNaul held Minnesota offer committed to Northwestern.
2006
None
2005
Walker Ashley held Minnesota offer committed to USC.

If you do the math we have offered scholarships to 7 players from Eden Prairie in the last five years. The two that committed received no outside interest. The five that received outside interest all decided to leave the state. That is 100%, 100%>80% so I believe you stand corrected. If you'd like I could go back to the 90's and where you'll get credit for Ryan Iverson (I think he had outside interest but I"m not entirely sure) but you'll miss out on the premier recruits, Jason Kapsner (Mich) and LeRoy McFadden (MSU).
 

grunkiejr said:
Eden Prairie the last 5 years.
2009
Corey Frazier held Minnesota offer committed to Rice.
2008
Willie Mobley held Minnesota offer committed to OSU.
Ryan Grant committed to Minnesota w/ no outside offers.
2007
Ryan Orton committed to Minnesota w/ no outside offers.
Blake Sorenson held Minnesota offer committed to Wisconsin.
Bryce McNaul held Minnesota offer committed to Northwestern.
2006
None
2005
Walker Ashley held Minnesota offer committed to USC.

If you do the math we have offered scholarships to 7 players from Eden Prairie in the last five years. The two that committed received no outside interest. The five that received outside interest all decided to leave the state. That is 100%, 100%>80% so I believe you stand corrected. If you'd like I could go back to the 90's and where you'll get credit for Ryan Iverson (I think he had outside interest but I"m not entirely sure) but you'll miss out on the premier recruits, Jason Kapsner (Mich) and LeRoy McFadden (MSU).
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THANK YOU!!!
I get sick of people making crazy generalizations with no proof to back it up. Players from all over the state with other options have been leaving for years, not just CDH
 

Of course I said "if MANY" other schools match the outstate flight of CDH I'd stand corrected. You did provide one example (albeit a big one) and I commented in your other thread that the EP track record looks like a lot like CDH.

I don't think it can be denied that the CDH experience (and of course EP for that matter) depart from the "norm" when it comes to players taking flight out of the state.

Again, I said "many" and I'm sure further digging would result in stories like "1 out of 1 (100%!) of the D1 players from Detroit Lakes went out of state". I made that example up but I hope you know what I mean. I'm just noticing the flight of the CDH players and contrasting it to the overall norm. Yes, players from any given program can leave the state for college. That has always happened and I'm sure it will always happen to some degree in the future, even if the Gophers become perennial Big 10 contenders. I'm just pointing out the fact the rate for CDH players is much higher, and hypothesizing why. Nothing more.

As it was pointed out in the other thread about EP:

CDH 3/11 (27.3%)
EP 3/8 (37.5%)
other 35/51 (68.6%)

I'd like to see ALL THREE percentages go UP and it is pretty clear CDH is a salient example of out-state flight.
 



Regarding Seantrel's first love being Basketball, (sorry to bring up an old thread, but I saw the line and couldn't let this go) and him possibly going to a team that would let him play both, frankly no team is going to let him play both because he isn't that great a basketball player. I went to a High School in the Suburban East (where C-DH plays) and I've seen Seantrel play several times now over the last couple of years playing against several teams and he isn't that great a basketball player. He is not a D-1 basketball player. If he was unable to play football, and was simply a basketball recruit, he'd be fortunate to go to St. Thomas. Terrible footwork, lazy and slow on defense, and a terrible shooter, even around the basket. Doesn't dominate the lane for a guy his size. Lots of turnovers, etc. So if he ends up going elsewhere, and we think it's because Tubby wouldn't let him play ball/there was no room on the squad, I can tell you that it is absolutely not the reason. If USC is stupid enough to give him a spot on their basketball team, then it was because (the new USC coach) was forced to do it. No college bball coach in his right mind would give him a roster spot.
 

oleboy41 said:
Completely disagree. If your kid has talent you send them to CDH because its only 1 of 2 schools within the sity limits of Mpls and StP that has proven it can actually develop talent to a D1 level. This isn't Miami where you can go to your neighborhood school and still get decent coaching and exposure. Going to CDH isn't 'bailing' on your home district either. I went to DeLaSalle and I wasn't 'bailing' on Roosevelt, I was just going to a place where I had a better chance to be succesful. Maybe if schools like Roosevelt and South actually developed talent and sent them to D1 schools parents with talented kids wouldn't feel like they had to send them elsewhere to help them get the most out of their talent. There is no mentality at CDH that sends them elsewhere, they are just kids. The fact is that Gopher football is usually an afterthought in the TC and unless your parents went there or you have a naturally storng sense of pride in your hometown school there's nothing really pulling you there. While we on GH and GI or wherever are big time fans most people don't care if you leave home to go elsewhere. This isn't Wisconsin or Ohio where the players good enough to play for the home school are expected and pressured to go there. They don't grow up seeing Gopher flags on cars all the time and watching the U play in big time bowl games and on national TV. I love the Gophers but I only have 1 other friend who is more than a casual Gopher fan although I have many who watch a ton of CFB and are from Mpls. That, more than anything is why guys leave. No hometown love for the local school, mediocre tradition, nobody really pressures you to stay home, and D1 schools nearby with winning programs and you can still drive home on the weekends
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I have a slightly different take. The biggest problem IMO regardling prep players from Minneapolis is that there is no pre Highschool prep football. No playground leagues. In addition to the lack of pre secondary school football, the league(s) in Saint Paul are not what they used to be.

Just an opinion.
 

awag777 said:
Regarding Seantrel's first love being Basketball, (sorry to bring up an old thread, but I saw the line and couldn't let this go) and him possibly going to a team that would let him play both, frankly no team is going to let him play both because he isn't that great a basketball player. I went to a High School in the Suburban East (where C-DH plays) and I've seen Seantrel play several times now over the last couple of years playing against several teams and he isn't that great a basketball player. He is not a D-1 basketball player. If he was unable to play football, and was simply a basketball recruit, he'd be fortunate to go to St. Thomas. Terrible footwork, lazy and slow on defense, and a terrible shooter, even around the basket. Doesn't dominate the lane for a guy his size. Lots of turnovers, etc. So if he ends up going elsewhere, and we think it's because Tubby wouldn't let him play ball/there was no room on the squad, I can tell you that it is absolutely not the reason. If USC is stupid enough to give him a spot on their basketball team, then it was because (the new USC coach) was forced to do it. No college bball coach in his right mind would give him a roster spot.
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Seantrel supposedly has a couple of stand-alone D1 offers for basketball.

I believe Marquette is one. The St. Louis Billikens is the other, I think.
 

ConferenceChamp said:
Seantrel supposedly has a couple of stand-alone D1 offers for basketball.

I believe Marquette is one. The St. Louis Billikens is the other, I think.
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St. Louis Billikens..haha...'nuff said there. Marquette is surprising also, they have a pretty solid squad.

That being said, I still stand by what I said, unless he takes major strides in the basketball realm this year, he won't be playing D1 basketball (if that bizarre situation comes to fruition and the school that signs him allows him to).
 

awag777 said:
St. Louis Billikens..haha...'nuff said there.
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You show your ignorance with this statement. St. Louis has Rick Majerus, one of the top basketball coaches on earth, college or pro, and has been to the tournament 4 times in the last 15 years. Presuming Majerus doesn't die of a heart attack soon, they will be an annual tournament team in the near future.

Since you're clearly a superior athlete, why don't you regale us with the expansive list of teams that have offered you a D-I scholarship to play basketball? You are a complete and utter fool if you think getting an offer from *any* D-I school to play basketball is anything to sneeze at.
 

My point was that nobody in their right mind who has D1 FOOTBALL potential would go to St. Louis Billikens, regardless of his love for basketball. Majerus or not, it's not somewhere with spotlight (yet), and it's not even a remotely realistic option for him.

& you don't have to be a superior athlete to be able to tell the players who have D1 potential and those who don't. I've seen Michael Floyd play basketball, I've seen Adam Weber, Travis Busch, as well as the Hopkins dynasty play over the past several years, and there is a discernible difference between players who are D1 and those who aren't. My dad's been a scout for years within the Suburban East and agrees fully Seantrel isn't half the basketball player he is relative to football. Any school that is offering him a purely basketball scholarship is doing so in hopes it will get him to play football. Those offers are hail mary passes at best.
 

awag777 said:
My point was that nobody in their right mind who has D1 FOOTBALL potential would go to St. Louis Billikens, regardless of his love for basketball. Majerus or not, it's not somewhere with spotlight (yet), and it's not even a remotely realistic option for him.

& you don't have to be a superior athlete to be able to tell the players who have D1 potential and those who don't. I've seen Michael Floyd play basketball, I've seen Adam Weber, Travis Busch, as well as the Hopkins dynasty play over the past several years, and there is a discernible difference between players who are D1 and those who aren't. My dad's been a scout for years within the Suburban East and agrees fully Seantrel isn't half the basketball player he is relative to football. Any school that is offering him a purely basketball scholarship is doing so in hopes it will get him to play football. Those offers are hail mary passes at best.
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Who ever suggested he'd choose bball over football? He may or may not want to do both. Which leads me to ask why are these dual offers hail mary passes? If he truly loves bball this much this type of offer might be persuasive. And if you are the bball coach why do you care? He may not be the best player out there but obviously he's good enough to provide some benefit in practice even if he doesn't play. Its not like he's taking up a scholarship for bball as he's already a full ride in football. His talent and the offers to play both FB/MBB seem like separate issues to me. They wouldn't be if he was a terrible MBB player or only a D-III talent, but obviously he's not.
 

awag777 said:
Any school that is offering him a purely basketball scholarship is doing so in hopes it will get him to play football. Those offers are hail mary passes at best.
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How do you function on a day-to-day basis?

Neither Marquette nor St. Louis has a football team.

Keep going, this is getting better by the minute.
 




Ok last post I'll make on this, I'm not sure why you're in love with Henderson's basketball side, have you seen the kid play? At all? I have several times, I don't care what programs offered him scholarships, but he is not a D1 player, he'd be a step back for Tubby on the off chance he played for the Gophers. Until you've seen him play over the course of three years, lose the relentless defense if him.
 

awag777 said:
Ok last post I'll make on this, I'm not sure why you're in love with Henderson's basketball side, have you seen the kid play? At all? I have several times, I don't care what programs offered him scholarships, but he is not a D1 player, he'd be a step back for Tubby on the off chance he played for the Gophers. Until you've seen him play over the course of three years, lose the relentless defense if him.
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I haven't seen him play and frankly, I only care about whether or not he plays FB at the U. My point is that you seem to be conflating his basketball ability/chances to play with his FB recruitment. You say he'd be a step back for the Gophs ON THE OFF CHANCE HE PLAYS. I'll take you at your word and assume you're right. Why on earth would Tubby ever play him then? Just a guess...he wouldn't! Whether or not Henderson will play D1 MBB has no relation to why he is being offered the chance by the Gophers and others. It is being done as part of the FB recruitment process with the MBB coach's blessing. Tubby isn't going to hurt his own program to do Brewster a favor. Obviously he thinks he can benefit as well (or at the very least help Brew without hurting himself).
 

He made it pretty clear that he wants a big time winning pgm. If we don't win we're out, if we have a good season and look good, we have a chance. Cut and dried!!
 

awag777 said:
Ok last post I'll make on this, I'm not sure why you're in love with Henderson's basketball side, have you seen the kid play? At all? I have several times, I don't care what programs offered him scholarships, but he is not a D1 player, he'd be a step back for Tubby on the off chance he played for the Gophers. Until you've seen him play over the course of three years, lose the relentless defense if him.
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I don't know or care whether he's any good at basketball. My point is that you're scoffing at his offer list for basketball. And you are just plain stupid if you think getting Marquette and St. Louis offers is meaningless.

You're right, though. They're doing all they can to beef up their intramural football programs.:cheer:
 

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