Having a little doubt

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Indiana Gopher

Indiana Gopher
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Although I am 100% behind Jerry Kill and have been since before he was hired, I am starting to have some doubts about this year's recruting class. The last week or so has been a bit rough on the recruiting trail. Just think, a week ago (+ or -) we had 21-22 recruits and looked to be well on our way to 25+ with a recruting class that was ranked in the 30s/40s nationwide. Then we lost commits Osunde, Moore, and Carter and missed out on Perine, Sankey, and Jenkins. Now we're down to 18 (?) commits with a rank in the high 60s (?). I am confident that Coach Kill will do far better with next year's class and realize the timeframe obstacles he's face this year. I just had delusions of grandeur with the way this class started out and was headed prior to recent events. Thoughts?
 

We'll be fine. A week to go, he will bring in a few more and round out this class just fine. Go back to bed.
 

Perhaps this helps...

1. We're down to 19 commits/signees, not 18.

2. We were never seriously in the Sankey sweepstakes, outside of our own wishful fantasies.

3. Moore hasn't been coming to Minnesota for months--probably since Brewster was fired.

4. Osunde was set to enroll at Minnesota until a Texas court said he couldn't go out of state for college.

5. At least half of the decommitted Brewster recruits were encouraged by Kill and staff to look elsewhere.

6. We'll have 8-12 prospects on campus this week. I would expect at least half of them to choose Minnesota.

7. This is very typical of what happens in coaching changes and in no way reflects on Kill and staff's recruiting ability. In fact, I am mightily impressed with what they have managed to do in five weeks.
 

uagain said:
1. We're down to 19 commits/signees, not 18.

2. We were never seriously in the Sankey sweepstakes, outside of our own wishful fantasies.

3. Moore hasn't been coming to Minnesota for months--probably since Brewster was fired.

4. Osunde was set to enroll at Minnesota until a Texas court said he couldn't go out of state for college.

5. At least half of the decommitted Brewster recruits were encouraged by Kill and staff to look elsewhere.

6. We'll have 8-12 prospects on campus this week. I would expect at least half of them to choose Minnesota.

7. This is very typical of what happens in coaching changes and in no way reflects on Kill and staff's recruiting ability. In fact, I am mightily impressed with what they have managed to do in five weeks.
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Don't forget we have a kicker (Hawthorne) and punter (Mortell) coming on board as well.
 

I think we will be fine. There will be a lot of moving ans shaking this weekend with all the visits. We also have Bjorklund that will be signing.

Kill might not be trying to fill all spots and use the spots as carrots for a good sized walk-on class. Just a thought. I think that would be the last resort. We'll have to see come Wednesday.
 


This years class may or may not be down, but I don't think it matters much. Kill's style is not of the slick salesman ilk, so it is natural to assume that he will be less effective while working on a truncated schedule. He has said himself he likes to recruit and build the relationship over the course of a year. What I'm trying to say is, our long term future looks bright.
 

You expected a lot better than what we have....... in a coaching transition......... really???
 

Happy to see the realism in responses here.

It was great to read that so many posters here are being realistic about what may or may not come from Jerry Kill's first recruiting class. With both existing players and Brewster's last recruits, the new Gopher staff has a lot of sorting out to do to make sure that they have the type of quality athletes AND young men with character that they will need for the future.
The beauty of having an intact staff hit the ground running is that they know exactly what kind of players they want and need for the future. I think Minnesota has some real good talent returning next year and give Brewster more than a little credit for the fact that he emphasized putting some of his best athletes on defense. Kill and his staff can really build on that fact along with all the redshirts that Jeff Horton kept in place.
Jerry Kill can sign players next week with less than three star ratings and build them into very good football players. He is also intent on building a walk on program that should result in several players every year beating out scholarship athletes. He has a process firmly in mind and a staff that has worked it successfully for years. It will be fun to watch how things grow and improve, starting with next Wednesday's announced signings.
I believe Jerry Kill when he says his job is to make the Minnesota Gopher football program better every day. Existing players are already experiencing more disciplined and focused approaches to strength training and academics. Spring ball will be fun and interesting to watch. And next fall I look for the Gophers to play MUCH better in November than they play in September. That's almost always the hallmark of well coached teams.
 

This class isn't going to define the program under Kill. He never had highly ranked classes at NIU and they ended up being pretty good. A good season on the field next year can really boost recruiting next year and beyond.
 



i think kill gets a solid b/b+ for retaining the brewster kids he has - i think lacosse was a big loss and vann looks like a guy who could have helped but overall, he's done good damage control. anything he can add to the retention is gravy, imo, and with estime and montgomery, we've got some potentially tasty gravy.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
This class isn't going to define the program under Kill. He never had highly ranked classes at NIU and they ended up being pretty good. A good season on the field next year can really boost recruiting next year and beyond.
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They also played in the MAC.
 

Indiana Gopher said:
Although I am 100% behind Jerry Kill and have been since before he was hired, I am starting to have some doubts about this year's recruting class. The last week or so has been a bit rough on the recruiting trail. Just think, a week ago (+ or -) we had 21-22 recruits and looked to be well on our way to 25+ with a recruting class that was ranked in the 30s/40s nationwide. Then we lost commits Osunde, Moore, and Carter and missed out on Perine, Sankey, and Jenkins. Now we're down to 18 (?) commits with a rank in the high 60s (?). I am confident that Coach Kill will do far better with next year's class and realize the timeframe obstacles he's face this year. I just had delusions of grandeur with the way this class started out and was headed prior to recent events. Thoughts?
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Just be careful. I have tried to point some of these things out and I get blasted, called pantherhwk, whoever that is. Some on the board like to romanticize reality. I applaud and love the optimism. At the same time, the Brewster years showed that a false sense of reality can lead to heartbreak. I applaud Jerry Kill for working hard to gather this class. But when people are getting the most excited about a 215lb defensive end who has only played football for one year, was honorable mention all-area, and appeared to be headed to Florida Atlantic, they are romanticizing. I think Kill has shown he can win over the 30 and above crowd. The question is, can he persuade enough 18 year olds? Can he go into a living room outside of Minnesota and persuade an 18 year old to come when the player has also had/ or will have Jim Tressel, Bret Bielema, Kirk Ferentz, and Pat Fitzgerald, etc. at the home? That is my concern. This year, I think he lost all but one of the top out-state guys (one of the McAvoys) who were committed prior and had real options, he lost Tamani Carter, Bishop Sankey because he was not able to close the deal. He has so far been unable to persuade any of the top in-state guys who had committed elsewhere to change their mind. Recruiting enough top players to Minnesota has always been a problem. Can he change that? Developing guys is great. But the problem is competition. The other guys know how to develop players too. And if their guys start their race ahead of Kill's guys, it can be hard to catch up. Maybe this weekend he can pull some miracles, that would be great. The other issue, I believe is this class is coming right after Brewster's last class, which is loaded with fill-ins after eleven de-committed (Hutton, Wilson, Simpson....). Go ahead and start ripping me.......I enjoy the conversations. Thank you.
 

How about we let them hit the field before we start anointing the class a success or failure? Remember, Mason wasn't all that in his last few years as a recruiter but he had Greg Jones and JJ Watt set to come here.
 



3399 said:
This year, I think he lost all but one of the top out-state guys (one of the McAvoys) who were committed prior and had real options, he lost Tamani Carter, Bishop Sankey because he was not able to close the deal.
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Both McAvoys have a number of BCS offers.

Matilus also has offers from Illinois and Kentucky.

Shortell had interest from Michigan and probably other schools us rubes don't even know about.

Saying he "lost" Bishop Sankey is like saying that Brewster "lost" Seantrel Henderson.
 

3399 said:
Just be careful. I have tried to point some of these things out and I get blasted, called pantherhwk, whoever that is. Some on the board like to romanticize reality. I applaud and love the optimism. At the same time, the Brewster years showed that a false sense of reality can lead to heartbreak. I applaud Jerry Kill for working hard to gather this class. But when people are getting the most excited about a 215lb defensive end who has only played football for one year, was honorable mention all-area, and appeared to be headed to Florida Atlantic, they are romanticizing. I think Kill has shown he can win over the 30 and above crowd. The question is, can he persuade enough 18 year olds? Can he go into a living room outside of Minnesota and persuade an 18 year old to come when the player has also had/ or will have Jim Tressel, Bret Bielema, Kirk Ferentz, and Pat Fitzgerald, etc. at the home? That is my concern. This year, I think he lost all but one of the top out-state guys (one of the McAvoys) who were committed prior and had real options, he lost Tamani Carter, Bishop Sankey because he was not able to close the deal. He has so far been unable to persuade any of the top in-state guys who had committed elsewhere to change their mind. Recruiting enough top players to Minnesota has always been a problem. Can he change that? Developing guys is great. But the problem is competition. The other guys know how to develop players too. And if their guys start their race ahead of Kill's guys, it can be hard to catch up. Maybe this weekend he can pull some miracles, that would be great. The other issue, I believe is this class is coming right after Brewster's last class, which is loaded with fill-ins after eleven de-committed (Hutton, Wilson, Simpson....). Go ahead and start ripping me.......I enjoy the conversations. Thank you.
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You make a lot of assumptions. Unless we know facts, that is really all we can do though. From reading it seems Carter always wanted to be a Wolverine and when given the option took it. Likely the biggest difference between Brewster's guys and Kill's guys are personality at this point.
 

Meh,
The concern for me is more depth related to past classes, I feel good that Kill will redshirt, develop and retain his classes going forward, but there are serious holes in the depth chart beyond the 1s and 2s.
Look at it this way, let's break down the class:
Hawthorne, 3 JUCOs, Marcus Jones- all Kill signees, all expected to fit the new systems and contribute right away, early enrollees'

Baudacco, McAvoys, Shortell, Matilus, all good quality ratings, all retained
Lost: LaCosse-hurts, will be good TE, Moore-hurts, will be quality pass rusher, Vann-hurts has good LB potential,

Lost: Haughton-James-doesn't hurt with new signings, Rohr-solid kid, but not a huge loss, Oneyga-who knows, Brown-doesn't hurt too bad

Instaters retained-DCT, Westerhaus, T. Olson-all nice prospects, might fit Kill systems better to be honest

Instaters signed: Bjorkland to GS, Levine, Campion-all nice prospects, GS adds depth to future, Heifort to walk on

Outstaters signed:Bush and Goodger > Rohr

Gardener, Montgomery, Tamani Carter-Brewster didn't get them, top rated outstate prospects, Carter was lost, but you can't count it against Kill if he got him in the first place can you?

Estime-dripping with potential, no question he's a great athlete, simply silly to dismiss.

I'm thinking Kill's not reporting everything he's got cooking behind the scenes, if indeed we can get a bunch of quality walk ons and a few of the group coming in this weekend, we're sitting ok.
 


3399--it's not that your message isn't taken well, it's your delivery. You always temper your long negative comments with the "but I'm a fan" disclaimer. You always temper your good comments with a esoteric "but". You seem to cloud your negativity under "realism".

I just reviewed all of your posts. Generally, you really add nothing to the discussion, you just attempt a negativity flame job--seemingly most every time.

That's why posters here don't like you.
 

highwayman said:
3399--it's not that your message isn't taken well, it's your delivery. You always temper your long negative comments with the "but I'm a fan" disclaimer. You always temper your good comments with a esoteric "but". You seem to cloud your negativity under "realism".

I just reviewed all of your posts. Generally, you really add nothing to the discussion, you just attempt a negativity flame job--seemingly most every time.

That's why posters here don't like you.
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Can I get an analysis of my posts :)
 


dpodoll68 said:
Both McAvoys have a number of BCS offers.

Matilus also has offers from Illinois and Kentucky.

Shortell had interest from Michigan and probably other schools us rubes don't even know about.

Saying he "lost" Bishop Sankey is like saying that Brewster "lost" Seantrel Henderson.
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One of the MCAvoys did, the other was getting interest from Western Michigan, Illinois Sate, those types of schools. Having interest and we want you are two different things.

Sankey was interested enough to come for a visit and Kill there were reports Kill was at his house. He is not at the level of Seantral Henderson, you can't even compare the two.

The point is, this football program needs someone who will WIN those recruiting battles AND be a good coach. I am not saying that Kill can't do it, I am just saying that he lost some key battles this year (Sankey, Carter, Jenkins, Clark) where it looked like he might have a chance. With the exception of Montgomery, he pretty much just went after guys that were committed or had offers from Mid American schools, FL Atlantic, LA Monroe, Newberry, Wagner, Stephen F. Austin, etc. Some will develop and do well. But this is a hard way to get it done team wise. Is it too early to tell if this more than just a one year thing? Yes. Am I making assumptions? Well of course, it is a chatboard. But wouldn't we all feel better if he had won those recruiting battles, won over the committed elsewhere in-state kids???? After watching Wisconsin win the Big Ten last year, you just can't put a premium on quality depth. Not just names and bodies, guys that can play. It amazes me that they won without Borland, redshirted a senior running back, redshirted an offensive lineman who started games in 2009 who they think is going to be a star, had numerous injuries, and still won. So please understand, I know I have been critical of Kill and several of you get mad, I am not talking about just being good enough to beat Indiana, Purdue and have a couple of upsets. I am talking about being good enough and deep enough to do what Wisconsin did last year. I keep reading people say that they will be down next year because they lose Tolzien, Carimi, Watt...... I would trade for what they have coming back in a heartbeat. Would not shock me if they contend for the Big Ten title again next year. And that is what you have to build for.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
It was great to read that so many posters here are being realistic about what may or may not come from Jerry Kill's first recruiting class. With both existing players and Brewster's last recruits, the new Gopher staff has a lot of sorting out to do to make sure that they have the type of quality athletes AND young men with character that they will need for the future.
The beauty of having an intact staff hit the ground running is that they know exactly what kind of players they want and need for the future. I think Minnesota has some real good talent returning next year and give Brewster more than a little credit for the fact that he emphasized putting some of his best athletes on defense. Kill and his staff can really build on that fact along with all the redshirts that Jeff Horton kept in place.
Jerry Kill can sign players next week with less than three star ratings and build them into very good football players. He is also intent on building a walk on program that should result in several players every year beating out scholarship athletes. He has a process firmly in mind and a staff that has worked it successfully for years. It will be fun to watch how things grow and improve, starting with next Wednesday's announced signings.
I believe Jerry Kill when he says his job is to make the Minnesota Gopher football program better every day. Existing players are already experiencing more disciplined and focused approaches to strength training and academics. Spring ball will be fun and interesting to watch. And next fall I look for the Gophers to play MUCH better in November than they play in September. That's almost always the hallmark of well coached teams.
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Well put dude. I pretty much concer with everything you stated. Although, it does stink to loose some recruits, that is just the natural order of things that happens through a coaching change.
 

highwayman said:
3399--it's not that your message isn't taken well, it's your delivery. You always temper your long negative comments with the "but I'm a fan" disclaimer. You always temper your good comments with a esoteric "but". You seem to cloud your negativity under "realism".

I just reviewed all of your posts. Generally, you really add nothing to the discussion, you just attempt a negativity flame job--seemingly most every time.

That's why posters here don't like you.
Click to expand...

That's okay. Thanks for the feedback, like I said I enjoy the conversation. This board has very few devil's advocates. Based on the number of people who often read my posts, it seems to draw some interest. It is all in fun and I hope to be wrong on my analysis. But I have heard this song before with gopher football, and I hope someday it will be a new tune. THANK YOU.
 

I do believe that they were happy to have a few recruits decommit, because they want the character of this team to change. There are a lot of great kids on this team, and there are a few who have needed a kick in the ass and have not gotten it. I don't care how good a football player is on the field, if he is a constant headache off the field, he is not worth it at this school. Some schools like Tennessee and Auburn can hide those kids for 3-4 years, and keep them in school, but the Administration here has limits, as does the U police.
They don't want guys with Edwards attitude, no matter how good they are.
By the way, I am not including guys like Stoudermire and Kirksey whose public behavior issues I interpret as being frustrated with inept leadership. Really competitive people frequently rebel against poor leadership. It is not helpful, but it is not unusual. I have no idea about their conduct off the field, but all of the issues I have seen about either, I have also seen equivalents to in good companies when competitive talented people are lead by people without a clue.
 


3399 said:
That's okay. Thanks for the feedback, like I said I enjoy the conversation. This board has very few devil's advocates. Based on the number of people who often read my posts, it seems to draw some interest. It is all in fun and I hope to be wrong on my analysis. But I have heard this song before with gopher football, and I hope someday it will be a new tune. THANK YOU.
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Well, at least we know that you are not Pantherhawk. Your arguments are too cogent and your writing too good to be confused with his.

Your longer post above would have taken Pantherhawk at least 3 months to write.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
True, but those NIU teams play the Big 10 nearly every year, all on the road. Kill is 2-3 against Big 10 teams, losing by 4, 8 and 6 points to teams that went to bowls.
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A few games isn't necessarily a huge barometer for much, but being competitive every time is a good sign. But also of note, NIU recruiting was dead last in the MAC the last couple years before Kill and just up to 7th, and then 4th his last year. He improved the recruiting there from where it was when he got there. That means something to me. NIU earlier in the decade was a good team as well, but they fell back big time. And Kill came in and revived them. I'm hoping he can do the same here, and I wouldn't mind a BT championship game appearance in Year 3 like he did at NIU as well LOL.
 


50PoundHead said:
Well, at least we know that you are not Pantherhawk. Your arguments are too cogent and your writing too good to be confused with his.

Your longer post above would have taken Pantherhawk at least 3 months to write.
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Thank you, I will take that as a compliment:). But seriously, who is this pantherhawk guy? This must have taken place b4 i started reading this board. I assume he is an iowa dude, but what is the story??
 


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