Has Tubby lost the team or has the team given up on Tubby?

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Ewert86PC

Ewert86PC

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Okay, after this embarrassment at Iowa City, I think we need to discuss WTF is up with this team.

Which happened first, Tubby giving up on this team or this team giving up on Tubby?

I sense a lot of passive/aggressive animosity when it comes to this team, I just don't know where it started first.
 

Neither. It may be bad coaching, a lack of talent (specifically on the bench), or psychological issues, but after watching that locker room celebration after the Badger game, it doesn't have anything to do with anyone giving up on anybody.

Listening to Tubby's postgame interview, he was obviously upset. He cares and wants to succeed here in Minnesota. His players, in turn, want to give him that success.
 

I don't think it's a matter of passion or locker room quality. It's Tubby's coaching philosophy. The game has evolved. He has not.
 

Same here.

Had our coaches and players alike not fought so hard to get our win over Becky, I might buy your argument. Since I just saw that earlier this week though, I don't see how you can say that either side has quit on the other.

We have some big problems, but I don't think we have quitters.
 

What happened to all the excitement after that awesome dance video? I can't believe how fast things change.
 


point guard 10 said:
What happened to all the excitement after that awesome dance video? I can't believe how fast things change.
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It was there. The team came out like a horse on fire right away. But then it was like, "Gilligan, you can't fly; it's impossible." "I can't?" "NO!"
 

GVTTW said:
Neither. It may be bad coaching, a lack of talent (specifically on the bench), or psychological issues, but after watching that locker room celebration after the Badger game, it doesn't have anything to do with anyone giving up on anybody.

Listening to Tubby's postgame interview, he was obviously upset. He cares and wants to succeed here in Minnesota. His players, in turn, want to give him that success.
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Good post.

(point guard 10, why oh why didn't you start the game thread? You won the Wisky game. I knew we were in trouble when I saw it was someone else.)
 

The problem is a lack of a point guard who can deal with the press and the zone as well as a lack of shooter. To beat a zone you need to move the ball quickly getting the defenders out of position so you get open shots. Unfortunately the Gophers have 1 reliable outside shooter who also has to play point guard in Andre Hollins. The Gopher's 2 wings, Williams and Coleman, are pathetic outside shooters so teams can play off them, crowd the middle and cheat on Andre. Iowa did that today. Andre had few good looks because Iowa always knew where he was and would dare anyone else to shoot. Tubby saw what happened when Al Nolen went down and Hoff had to try and play PG yet he did not recruit a PG last year. Justin Cobbs left a long time ago. Not having a true point guard and another shooter is the problem. Tubby loves long-armed, athletic wings who are great in transition. Unfortunately the B1G is a half-court league where you have to grind it out. The blame for this year's collapse is squarely on Tubby for his failure to recruit the players he needed.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Good post.

(point guard 10, why oh why didn't you start the game thread? You won the Wisky game. I knew we were in trouble when I saw it was someone else.)
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Haha, I was going to but someone beat me to it! The Wiscy game was my first time starting a game thread, so maybe it was good luck!
 



gopherMD said:
The problem is a lack of a point guard who can deal with the press and the zone as well as a lack of shooter. To beat a zone you need to move the ball quickly getting the defenders out of position so you get open shots. Unfortunately the Gophers have 1 reliable outside shooter who also has to play point guard in Andre Hollins. The Gopher's 2 wings, Williams and Coleman, are pathetic outside shooters so teams can play off them, crowd the middle and cheat on Andre. Iowa did that today. Andre had few good looks because Iowa always knew where he was and would dare anyone else to shoot. Tubby saw what happened when Al Nolen went down and Hoff had to try and play PG yet he did not recruit a PG last year. Justin Cobbs left a long time ago. Not having a true point guard and another shooter is the problem. Tubby loves long-armed, athletic wings who are great in transition. Unfortunately the B1G is a half-court league where you have to grind it out. The blame for this year's collapse is squarely on Tubby for his failure to recruit the players he needed.
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Big key.

We seem to do much better in non-conference games against the good teams than we do in conference.

We get to the Big Ten season and we seem to get worse as our conference foes get better.
 

I don't know. All these arguments are valid, but I get the sense that the fire is dying, the wind is out of the sails on this team. I don't know if there is a bigger issue at hand, something athletic department wide or school wide, but I know blah when I see blah.

Could it be related to the Gary Barker Twitter flame out or the school's warning to Joel Bauman about using the University, it's likenesses and his name in connection to his rap exploits?
 

I think that OSU is prime for going through an Illinoisish/Minnesotaish kind of losing streak, starting TODAY. It's our chance to use them as a stepping off point to get back on track.

Our last 3 games are gimmes, if we just show up with confidence knowing that we should win those games.

We could easily go 4-1 from here out, maybe even 5-0.


Then again, we could fumble the ball, let OSU use us for their own purposes of trying to get back on track, let that psyche us out so that we lose to IU as well, and then by the time we play Nebraska, we just might not have no gas left?!


But even if we lose our next 2, we have an easy 3 game stretch leading up to the BTT, that could get us on a roll. Going into the round of 8, we could have a 4 game winning streak going?!

That could give us the confidence we need to make it 5, maybe 6?!
 

Two road games in the big ten for this team are gimmies? Wow I have heard it all now, un-beliv-able. We dominated down in Evanston to prove that we can just go in and dominate a team on the road. Or there was that time in Iowa City. Give me a break. Cue the RPI numbers
 



Oh, btw, what department wide blah are you talking about?!

#1 Women's Hockey breaking records left and right!?
#2 Men's Hockey poised for a FF run soon?
#4 Men's Wrestling HOSTING the Natl Duals?!
#6 Men's Gymnastics just scoring their best score of the season?!
#11 Women's Gymnastics beating the #1 ranked team just last week?
Top 15 teams in Mens and Women's Swimming and Diving?
Baseball beating the #2 UCLA Bruins on Friday night?!
Men's Indoor Track ranking 8th in the country last week?!
Former Gopher Thomas Vanek being the leading point scorer in the NHL?
Former Gopher Marc Trestman getting the Bears Head Coaching Job?
Gopher Cheer teams winning THREE MORE Natl Titles in early January?
Volleyball team making the Elite 8, with a new coach, former US Olympic team coach, top notch recruits coming in every year?
Men's CC team missing out on the NCAA tourney for like the first time in 2 decades or something?!
Women's CC team not missing out and making something like their 12th in a row or something like that?!

New TCF Bank Stadium now up and going.
New Baseball Stadium, now up and going.
New AD in this year?
Jerry Kill getting one of the Top 3 recruiting classes in modern times?



Not sure where this university wide blah is coming from?!


Oh yeah, is it our being named one of the Top Ten Public Research Universities in the nation recently?!

Is it maybe all of the progress being talked about in regard to our athletes academic accomplishments lately?!


Or finally, is our #13 rating in the most recent RPI bb standings?!




Just not recognizing what you are talking about?! Sorry?!
 

Basket-Blah. I'm just searching for answers for this team. Their uninspired play, lack of ability to beat a zone defense, the inability to score.... Basket-blah.
 

Don't worry two big ten road games are gimmes at this point, just look to the RPI it is the end all.
 

rivergopher --


Apparently you missed the qualifier. I said, if we go into those games with the confidence knowing that we can win those games, that we should win those games, then, and only then would they be gimmes.


But if losing our next 2 shatters their tender psyche's, we could also lose those games.


But honestly, looking at how we all know this team CAN play at times, how it DID play vs Nebraska, how it DID play vs Illinois and MSU, and in the ooc, those last 3 games should be, and could be gimmes. Not saying we don't have to show up with confidence and play hard.

But one thing Purdue, PSU and Nebraska have not done, that NW has, is beat more than one Top 50 team. NW has beaten 3 of them at least. But yes, we lost to NW and TCU beat Kansas, anything is possible, hence its also possible we could win our next 15 games.
 

Missed the qualifer but still numbers all the time with you watch the games, we have lost 7 of our last 10 and have looked lost against teams that play zone against us have looked awful on the road. There are no such thing as gimmes for this team on the road with any mindset.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
But honestly, looking at how we all know this team CAN play at times, how it DID play vs Nebraska, how it DID play vs Illinois and MSU, and in the ooc, those last 3 games should be, and could be gimmes. Not saying we don't have to show up with confidence and play hard.

But one thing Purdue, PSU and Nebraska have not done, that NW has, is beat more than one Top 50 team. NW has beaten 3 of them at least. But yes, we lost to NW and TCU beat Kansas, anything is possible, hence its also possible we could win our next 15 games.
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Go over to the St. Paul Campus and ask any Ag student about counting chickens prior to their hatching.
 

I'm not counting anything. But ask anyone about self-fulfilling prophecies. If all us fans give up on the team, and if the team loses confidence, then we COULD lose all the rest of our games. If the fans lose faith in their team, is it possible the players or the coach can sense this?!

Maybe this whole losing streak is the fans fault?! We built this team up SO HIGH, and ripped it to shreds every time we didn't beat a Top 5 ranked team. We start up Fire Tubby threads after just about every loss.

It's simple, expectations for this team were WAY too high early on. And they still probably are, deep down, I sense that many of the fans being so negative are being so, because they actually have more faith in this team than I have, and so the team is more of a dispointment to them than it is to me?
 

For the first time in my years on GH I've found the ignore feature.
 

Gopherhole is all fired up with negativity after this loss. Still a few winnable games left to gain momentum and the Big Ten Tourney. Tubby will get it figured out before the NCAA Tourney. If not I'm sure the Tubby Bashers will want their wishes granted.
 

Parski1 said:
Gopherhole is all fired up with negativity after this loss. Still a few winnable games left to gain momentum and the Big Ten Tourney. Tubby will get it figured out before the NCAA Tourney. If not I'm sure the Tubby Bashers will want their wishes granted.
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He's got to figure out a workable offensive gameplan that doesn't rely soley on streak shooting, the 2nd half has me seriously questioning his ability to adapt in the least.
 

Parski1 said:
Gopherhole is all fired up with negativity after this loss. Still a few winnable games left to gain momentum and the Big Ten Tourney. Tubby will get it figured out before the NCAA Tourney. If not I'm sure the Tubby Bashers will want their wishes granted.
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I want a team that wins in a very difficult conference. I just get an odd sense from this team at this point.
 

wouldnt tubby losing the team or the team giving up on tubby be the same thing????
 

goldengophers said:
He's got to figure out a workable offensive gameplan that doesn't rely soley on streak shooting, the 2nd half has me seriously questioning his ability to adapt in the least.
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That had been a knock on him from my perspective for a while. But this season seemed to be different, as a hallmark of our first four conference games were second halves that looked way better than the first halves. I don't know what has happened. Why the heck is this team so damn soft? #1crashingmycomputertryingtodownloadhislongposts referred to their "tender psyches" earlier in this thread. It seems like they are tender, but why? These guys are division one athletes, they are supposed to be tough enough to take one on the chin and move on like its nothing. Instead, we seem to have a glass jaw. It seems like more often then not (Wisconsin game was a big exception) one false step means we fall off the cliff.
 

station19 said:
Big key.

We seem to do much better in non-conference games against the good teams than we do in conference.

We get to the Big Ten season and we seem to get worse as our conference foes get better.
Click to expand...

This actually points a bit of a finger at coaching. Tubby's team seems to do better in tournaments and against out of conference teams in situations where there is minimal time to prepare and not nearly the level of familiarity you get in the conference games.

I also fall in the group that says he has not lost the team and they have not given up on him they are just lacking that on the court leadership you need that comes from having a go to guy or someone that can and will take over a game and pull you out of those funks that teams get into. This is not a new problem for this team and the question is can Tubby recruit those guys to play here.

We have a good team but it is missing that one go to guy/leader that could turn it into a great team.
 

station19 The reason we do better in non-conference games than the B1G games is simple. Tubby's offense and defense never change, the B1G coaches have seen it twice a year for 6 years. The non-conference teams haven't. Simple, he refuses to change or mix it up and therefore that is why we fall on our face every B1G season. Time for a new and younger coach!!
 

gopherMD said:
The problem is a lack of a point guard who can deal with the press and the zone as well as a lack of shooter. To beat a zone you need to move the ball quickly getting the defenders out of position so you get open shots. Unfortunately the Gophers have 1 reliable outside shooter who also has to play point guard in Andre Hollins. The Gopher's 2 wings, Williams and Coleman, are pathetic outside shooters so teams can play off them, crowd the middle and cheat on Andre. Iowa did that today. Andre had few good looks because Iowa always knew where he was and would dare anyone else to shoot. Tubby saw what happened when Al Nolen went down and Hoff had to try and play PG yet he did not recruit a PG last year. Justin Cobbs left a long time ago. Not having a true point guard and another shooter is the problem. Tubby loves long-armed, athletic wings who are great in transition. Unfortunately the B1G is a half-court league where you have to grind it out. The blame for this year's collapse is squarely on Tubby for his failure to recruit the players he needed.
Click to expand...

I think our biggest problem is no one looks to drive to the hoop other than the Hollins. For most of them, they get the ball and then look to get rid of it instead of trying to make something happen. Case in point: Oto catches the ball on the wing, and they were giving him the whole baseline. He doesn't even look to do something. Just wants to pass it right away. We're playing with a bunch of guys with no confidence. Everyone's looking at everyone else to make something happen. Ridiculous.
 

MNVCGUY said:
This actually points a bit of a finger at coaching. Tubby's team seems to do better in tournaments and against out of conference teams in situations where there is minimal time to prepare and not nearly the level of familiarity you get in the conference games.

I also fall in the group that says he has not lost the team and they have not given up on him they are just lacking that on the court leadership you need that comes from having a go to guy or someone that can and will take over a game and pull you out of those funks that teams get into. This is not a new problem for this team and the question is can Tubby recruit those guys to play here.

We have a good team but it is missing that one go to guy/leader that could turn it into a great team.
Click to expand...

bballjunkie said:
station19 The reason we do better in non-conference games than the B1G games is simple. Tubby's offense and defense never change, the B1G coaches have seen it twice a year for 6 years. The non-conference teams haven't. Simple, he refuses to change or mix it up and therefore that is why we fall on our face every B1G season. Time for a new and younger coach!!
Click to expand...

I agree with both of you, especially on the bold. The one thing I would say is though a 'go to player' would be nice, it isn't just that. A team with a good offensive system should be able to create scoring opportunities with teamwork.

When the players just seem to stand around(especially against a zone) it's not because they have quit on the coach or lack effort, it more a case of a deer in headlights and not knowing what to do.....just overwhelmed.
 

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