Has Pitino turned the corner?

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Winasota Gopher said:
This is a nice thought, but I still have apprehension that there lacks a true identity to the squad. You could say he changes to fit the team, but I'm just not sure I buy that. I still dont really understand what we run on offense other than trying to jam it into the rim with Murphy and create a high low game with Oturu. Our defense as of late has been great, but why did it take so long to get to that level of effort?

I understand the wanting to wait and see what we get next year before making a decision on him. I'm just concerned that we'll get more of the same so then what do you do? He's built a team that when at it's best, puts on great runs at the end of the year to make you think he's got it figured out, OR, they have a "circumstance" early that makes the season completely unbearable. He's got 3 of each. What is the 7th year gonna bring?
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Getting more of the same, huh. So 22 wins, beating the co-conference champions twice and beating a marquee team in the NCAA tourney is a bad thing? Of course we expect to do more, but it is building. If you can’t see it, the I am glad you are not making the decision.

Also, it goes both ways. You string on your young coach because you want be sure “he deserves it” and then he moves on because you didn’t support him.

I think he has earned stability!


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He's turned the corner in the sense that getting fired is now off the table for this season. I still don't have confidence that he will ever put us in the top 4-5 of the B1G on a consistent basis. We finished 9-11 in the B1G in what was supposed to be a much better year for us. We all feel good now because we beat Purdue twice and Louisville, but his overall resume is still weak. Will it feel like we've turned a corner next year if we win 9 B1G games again? I'd answer no.
 

I think the key here is that this game was the pinnacle (as of now, we'll see what happens tomorrow) of a huge boost down the stretch to get to the BTT semis, make the tourney, and get Pitino's first tourney win. That's huge for a P5 coach with a warm seat to put together, even with the injury bug hitting late in the season. Anything can happen in the future, but Pitino has proven he will work for us now.
 

Some of you guys are so funny with the subtle Pitino jabs. Everyone here was waiting to see how the season ended to make their decision and now the votes are coming in very positive. I was waiting but decided after the big ten tourney that he deserves more time and deserves the tools to make it happen (like contract stability to help with recruiting). Some made their decision a long time ago and the thought of a win over Michigan State is extremely painful for them as it destroys their moral high ground to get rid of Pitino.

I truly believe that he could win a national championship this year and we would see a thread from a Pitino hater that says "its only one year and doesn't prove anything" and "we need to someone to take the program where it needs to go".

A word of advice. Make your choice at the end of this year and if you are on-board then be a fan, have some fun, live in the moment over the next year. If not then checkout for a year and come back when things have changed enough for you. All complaining here about Pitino here does is wreck our recruiting.

Maybe you could head over to the Wisconsin BB forums and complain about them to wreck their recruiting. At least then you could get your angst out and help the Gophers at the same time..
 

MinnGopher said:
So you think one of Murphy, Coffey, McBrayer, Kalscheur, and Oturu don't belong on a B1G team? I wont include the others like Matz and Curry or even Carr because I think you are referencing the now but still...jeez.
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I never said "don't belong on a Big Ten team" (top 8) but I don't think McBrayer is someone who should be logging 30 minutes a game on a good team in this league. By the eye test he's our worst starter and by metrics like PER he's the worst regular in the entire Big Ten. He's probably best suited to be a 10 mpg guy not 30 mpg. He's starting because IW's been a major bust.

Matz is maybe a Top 8 player on a good team. Curry is injured and Carr isn't eligible so I didn't count them. The depth is really thin...the Gophers are setting records for share of scoring coming from starters.
 


CPTMidnight said:
Some of you guys are so funny with the subtle Pitino jabs. Everyone here was waiting to see how the season ended to make their decision and now the votes are coming in very positive. I was waiting but decided after the big ten tourney that he deserves more time and deserves the tools to make it happen (like contract stability to help with recruiting). Some made their decision a long time ago and the thought of a win over Michigan State is extremely painful for them as it destroys their moral high ground to get rid of Pitino.

I truly believe that he could win a national championship this year and we would see a thread from a Pitino hater that says "its only one year and doesn't prove anything" and "we need to someone to take the program where it needs to go".

A word of advice. Make your choice at the end of this year and if you are on-board then be a fan, have some fun, live in the moment over the next year. If not then checkout for a year and come back when things have changed enough for you. All complaining here about Pitino here does is wreck our recruiting.

Maybe you could head over to the Wisconsin BB forums and complain about them to wreck their recruiting. At least then you could get your angst out and help the Gophers at the same time..
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Question. Are you out of your mind?
 


CPTMidnight said:
I am guessing I am hitting pretty close to home with the comments for you specifically?
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I'm not sure where to even begin, but here goes:

1. Pitino won't win a national championship this year.
2. If the greatest miracle in sports history happened and #1 became true, 100% of Gopher fans would support giving him a 5 year contract.
3. His overall B1G record sucks. He's won 1 NCAA game in 6 years. Tubby had a similar level of "success" and was fired for it. 1 NCAA win over Louisville is great, but it doesn't mean anything has really changed.
4. If his name was Mike McIntyre instead of Richard Pitiono, he wouldn't still be coaching here.
5. I have a right to free speech and can complain about a coach as I choose to.
6. If people happen to do #5, it doesn't impact recruiting. Every fan base has a message board and engages in #5. If a recruit is so thinned skinned that comments on a message board has an impact, I don't want them here to begin with as they won't be able to handle real criticism when they are actually playing in games.
 

Pitino got this job before he was ready for it or even qualified for it. That means you have to expect and anticipate growing pains. Most successful coaches arent seen as successful before they hit 40. Thing is all the little mistakes a young coach makes show up all over the place. A few recruiting misses, a few mistakes in handling recruits/relationships can rwally affect a roster. Think if he’d have prioritized Wright over Washington or if guys like Harris or Dorsey stuck around and panned out to provide depth or veteran talent. That happens everywhere of course but Pitino is learning on the fly. Still he’s had Tourney quality teams the last 3 years (last year was freaky bad luck). I think he could certainly coach and recruit better but I also think he could be the guy that if fired pops up somewhere else and has a high level of success for years after he’s worked the kinks out here.
 



builtbadgers said:
Said all along he should be back, but you do not decide for others if a fan has to cheer for bucky if we did not sign up for 22-13 and a NCAA tourney win at the start of the season. I am a huge fan and actually expected no worse than 13-7 in year 6 with a trip to the sweet 16. Having larger expectations than you have does not make me less of a fan.
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Have you?

EDIT: I mean, this is just straight up revisionist history on your part

Certainly entitled your opinion. He can still win one more year right now but as of now i can not get past 38-68 and never even coming close to a conference title. This team may very well finish 5 games or more behind UW . Remember , there were zero fans on here who could have imagined that. Again, 38-68 is a mark that 100's of coaches would have surpassed.
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http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...181-Coaching-Candidates&p=1700696#post1700696

And based on your low opinion of Pitino, I'm shocked that you would act like you've supported him coming back... You said it yourself there are 45 better Power 6 coaches than him

Out of the 6 power conferences where would you rank him ? There are close to 70 coaches. I would rank him no better than 48 out of that group, that is a damn low grade on any scale. Are you perhaps looking at his coaching prowess through the lens of liking him ? What grade do you give him ?
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http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?87181-Coaching-Candidates&p=1702545#post1702545
 
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alchemy2u said:
Getting more of the same, huh. So 22 wins, beating the co-conference champions twice and beating a marquee team in the NCAA tourney is a bad thing? Of course we expect to do more, but it is building. If you can’t see it, the I am glad you are not making the decision.

Also, it goes both ways. You string on your young coach because you want be sure “he deserves it” and then he moves on because you didn’t support him.

I think he has earned stability!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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More of the same, like a huge disappointment year every other year and a run to save his job every other year is what I’m afraid of.

No need to run me through the reasons why or why he hasn’t had sustained success.

And yes, I’m not estatic over finishing sub .500 in conference.
 

It's been pointed out before but if Richard had a point guard how good would this team be? Is that the problem or is he? Nice tournament win.
 

BroncoRedux said:
It's been pointed out before but if Richard had a point guard how good would this team be? Is that the problem or is he? Nice tournament win.
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you sound like Pitino has never recruited a good point guard before.. Ever heard of Nate Mason? We tried recruiting a PG last offseason in Carr. We thought he'd be eligible. He wasn't, which is why we tried the Coffey as PG experiment, which has worked well down the stretch
 





fmlizard said:
I never said "don't belong on a Big Ten team" (top 8) but I don't think McBrayer is someone who should be logging 30 minutes a game on a good team in this league. By the eye test he's our worst starter and by metrics like PER he's the worst regular in the entire Big Ten. He's probably best suited to be a 10 mpg guy not 30 mpg. He's starting because IW's been a major bust.

Matz is maybe a Top 8 player on a good team. Curry is injured and Carr isn't eligible so I didn't count them. The depth is really thin...the Gophers are setting records for share of scoring coming from starters.
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You are right you didn't say that...but the connotation that it gives off is that we have many players who only belong on crappy B1G teams. The funny thing is that we finished 7th in the B1G regular season and made it to the semi's in the B1G tourney. You just really contradicted yourself...because we are top 8. So they don't belong because you don't feel their ability is significant enough? Makes sense.

The top 6 in the B1G is top 25 every year, so if you want us to be top 8 this is probably a very similar season to a lot of teams that finish 6/7-8/9 every year. Yes the teams that are usually 6/7 usually have a few less miserable losses against teams like Ill, Neb, and Rut.


Everyone wants to hate on the roster but all of the "not a B1G player" stuff is a joke.
 

Lakers612 said:
you sound like Pitino has never recruited a good point guard before.. Ever heard of Nate Mason? We tried recruiting a PG last offseason in Carr. We thought he'd be eligible. He wasn't, which is why we tried the Coffey as PG experiment, which has worked well down the stretch
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No one thought he would be eligible when we initially recruited him.
 


Lakers612 said:
you don't think Pitino and his staff knew more about his situation than us fans?
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They should have known it was a long shot to get Carr eligible this year. If they didn't realize that, they were dead wrong.
 

If we make it to the Sweet Sixteen this year, then I would answer this question. Otherwise he's a top 32 coach.

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I'm not sure is he has turned the corner or not. But the last few weeks, he has gotten more out of his players than I have seen so far in his entire time here. Our bigs have also not been in foul trouble lately. Is this a product of something he has been doing?

Who knows. Either way, he has earned next year, this team has been playing lights out the last couple weeks for the most part. Also, those saying 20-23 wins every year is mediocre? No, not really. That is pretty damn good and if that is what we can expect consistently here going forward, sign me up. That is what Wisconsin does, then every few years has a real nice season and makes a run.

He's gonna be here next year either way. If he can get this team back in the dance again, then something is being built and it's time to go all in on him. Another step back year and I am sure he will be on the hot seat. One other thing. If they do somehow win Saturday and make it into the sweet sixteen. This town will go crazy and he will be getting a large extension. That's a fact jack.
 

John Galt said:
He's turned the corner in the sense that getting fired is now off the table for this season. I still don't have confidence that he will ever put us in the top 4-5 of the B1G on a consistent basis. We finished 9-11 in the B1G in what was supposed to be a much better year for us. We all feel good now because we beat Purdue twice and Louisville, but his overall resume is still weak. Will it feel like we've turned a corner next year if we win 9 B1G games again? I'd answer no.
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Not sure if you are paying attention, but the Big Ten is 6-0 so far, soon to be 7-0 when Wisconsin dispatches another west coast-worst coast team. 9 wins sucks, I get it should have been better. But I will give them a little leeway there. They won enough in the best conference top to bottom in the land and it was enough for them to get into the Big Show.
 

Of course you have the ability to speak your mind, but then expect to get called out if it is stupid.

Do you even know anything about college baskeball? Pitino has done a very good job of developing numerous players. I added some responses to your comments.

John Galt said:
I'm not sure where to even begin, but here goes:

1. Pitino won't win a national championship this year. It was Metaphorical, in that even if he did the best job you and others would still not give him credit
2. If the greatest miracle in sports history happened and #1 became true, 100% of Gopher fans would support giving him a 5 year contract. You know you would still discount it and criticize him constantly
3. His overall B1G record sucks. He's won 1 NCAA game in 6 years. Tubby had a similar level of "success" and was fired for it. 1 NCAA win over Louisville is great, but it doesn't mean anything has really changed. We have gone over the early years B1G records of some of the other good U coaches, it is getting better
4. If his name was Mike McIntyre instead of Richard Pitiono, he wouldn't still be coaching here. Now even you know this is BS! It may have helped with him to gain his experience and get the job at first, but it is not why he still has the job
5. I have a right to free speech and can complain about a coach as I choose to. It goes both ways
6. If people happen to do #5, it doesn't impact recruiting. Every fan base has a message board and engages in #5. If a recruit is so thinned skinned that comments on a message board have an impact, I don't want them here, to begin with as they won't be able to handle real criticism when they are actually playing in games.
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If your opinion is of such little value, then why give it. Player consider all sorts of information before they commit to a program. Fan support is a big factor
 

fmlizard said:
I never said "don't belong on a Big Ten team" (top 8) but I don't think McBrayer is someone who should be logging 30 minutes a game on a good team in this league. By the eye test he's our worst starter and by metrics like PER he's the worst regular in the entire Big Ten. He's probably best suited to be a 10 mpg guy not 30 mpg. He's starting because IW's been a major bust.

Matz is maybe a Top 8 player on a good team. Curry is injured and Carr isn't eligible so I didn't count them. The depth is really thin...the Gophers are setting records for share of scoring coming from starters.
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The Gophers only have 4 players who belong in the top 8 on an upper division Big Ten team
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I'll bite, which player of our starting 5 doesn't belong in the top 8 on an "upper division" Big Ten team.

I'm assuming based on your response you think it's Dupree?

You're ****ing crazy.

Dupree is playing major minutes for the Badgers, 1st off the bench
20 mpg at Maryland
10+ mpg at Michigan
10+ MPG at Purdue
Probably doesn't play much at Iowa because of Connor being on the squad, but he'd fit nicely into their system with his length in a 131 zone
Not a lot of minutes at MSU and thats not a knock on Dupree necessarily, they've got 3 guards getting 30 mpg and Dupree isn't better than any of them

The kid plays 30+ minutes for us. To claim he doesn't belong in the Big 10 is silly.
 

Gopherbbdude said:
this is a Great take.

I think everyone felt Tubby was coasting in his last few years.
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I think the other thing about Tubby being fired was they beat an injury depleted UCLA team in that first round that was a shell of what they had earlier in their season. Along with the recruiting on the downswing led Teague and company to make the move. Too bad he just didn’t have his first 5 choices(or more) after the firing.


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John Galt said:
They should have known it was a long shot to get Carr eligible this year. If they didn't realize that, they were dead wrong.
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Not a long shot if the rules are applied consistently.
 


scools12 said:
This is a joke right?
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Gopherhole is the the central news source for everything Gophers and has been since the mid 90's. You think the family of the recruits are NOT on here every day? Of course they are here. If you were counseling your son on which scholarship offer to take - where would you get your news? When the most popular threads are picking Pitino's replacement what do you think a recruit would think.

Perhaps if you have already committed your family might be here for news even more, perhaps your family starts reading that the coach might not even be there when you get there, - son, perhaps you might reconsider your commitment because it does not look good for Pitino. The media doesnt like him, the season is mediocre, and gopherhole has a poll going on who the next coach is going to be. I dont think he is going to be there and by the end of the season you might not have any other offers from other coaches. Open it back up so you dont waste this one golden opportunity in your young life.

It most certainly happens. Maybe not on a specific recruit but good fans have an impact on recruits both at a game and otherwise. Bad fans have the same negative impact.

Its like marketing - nobody admits to be influenced by marketing but guess what? You pound people with ads and eventually it influences a portion of people. Negativity here has an effect on the fans, players and recruits. This is not a new idea nor a hard concept for all but the dimmest here.
 

CPTMidnight said:
Gopherhole is the the central news source for everything Gophers and has been since the mid 90's. You think the family of the recruits are NOT on here every day? Of course they are here. If you were counseling your son on which scholarship offer to take - where would you get your news? When the most popular threads are picking Pitino's replacement what do you think a recruit would think.

Perhaps if you have already committed your family might be here for news even more, perhaps your family starts reading that the coach might not even be there when you get there, - son, perhaps you might reconsider your commitment because it does not look good for Pitino. The media doesnt like him, the season is mediocre, and gopherhole has a poll going on who the next coach is going to be. I dont think he is going to be there and by the end of the season you might not have any other offers from other coaches. Open it back up so you dont waste this one golden opportunity in your young life.

It most certainly happens. Maybe not on a specific recruit but good fans have an impact on recruits both at a game and otherwise. Bad fans have the same negative impact.

Its like marketing - nobody admits to be influenced by marketing but guess what? You pound people with ads and eventually it influences a portion of people. Negativity here has an effect on the fans, players and recruits. This is not a new idea nor a hard concept for all but the dimmest here.
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To quote another poster: “Are you out of your mind?”


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Lakers612 said:
you sound like Pitino has never recruited a good point guard before.. Ever heard of Nate Mason? We tried recruiting a PG last offseason in Carr. We thought he'd be eligible. He wasn't, which is why we tried the Coffey as PG experiment, which has worked well down the stretch
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Actually my comment was specific to this team. Nate Mason was terrific but then there were other problems.
 

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