Has Minnesota ever produced this much talent before?

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Frank Grimey Grimes

Frank Grimey Grimes

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I am curious of other's opinions on this matter, has Minnesota prep ball ever produced as much high level basketball talent as is coming out over the next few years?

The 2019 and 2020 classes are absolutely stacked with high major talent. We have two top 10 players in Hurt and Suggs with another potential one in 2021 in Trejuan Holloman. On top of that each class has high 4 stars in guys like Garcia and Nnaji. When you also add in players like Dainja, Terry, Carlson... these are unreal levels of talent from MN. Even the last 3 have produced great talent with Jones, Wright, Oturu ect...

My point is it seems like and endless amount of talent coming down the pipeline and it also seems like the trends are heading towards having a better classes year after year.

Is my opinion based off my youth bias? I have only been old enough to pay attention since the early 2010s. I would like the hear the opinion of older fans who have followed MN prep ball for longer than myself. Are the talent levels really increasing? Or is it just a product of my personal bias and recruiting sites like 247 trying to "pump " up how good MN is?
 

It sounds like a very good trend.

There are a couple things that the Gophers need to do. First, get on the players minds as a worthwhile school to play for. Second, beat out other Power 5 schools in recruiting these players.

This has been our problem for the last twenty-plus years.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Well, I'm 62, and I have followed HS sports in MN since the late 60's.

On the surface, it does seem as if the state is producing more high-end talent.

But - I will caution that it's hard to compare different eras. When I was in HS, there was no AAU, no summer programs, no summer leagues. A few guys might go to a camp, if their folks had money. But, outside of the really elite players, most HS athletes played ball during the season, then they did something else. that was the era where most athletes played at least 2 or 3 sports.

Today, it's a different world. kids specialize from the time they're in 6th or 7th grade. We have AAU, summer leagues, showcases, and the entire infrastructure that has risen up around that scene. So the really good players are identified sooner, and head down the specialization path and year-round focus on one sport.

But, back to the original question - I would have to say there does seem to be more high-level talent than I remember. There were always a few stand-out individuals who went on to play D1 hoops, and even the NBA - just not as many of them.
 

Like SON said, times are different. But, imo, no. This is the deepest most high level basketball talent Minnesota has seen beyond one or two guys. And that wasn't every year. Realizing there are 50 states doing the same thing with specialization and AAU, it's pretty cool we are very likely a top 10 state for high level guys basketball. I'm sure California and Florida produce a bunch of kids but we seem to kinda be a hotbed right now.
 

Have they produced this quantity of players in the past? No. But, there are other things to consider when comparing certain eras. For example, there could be more D1 scholarship players because there are more D1 schools. There may be a higher participation percentage. The state could be more populous. Are the ratios of population and participation related to the output higher? Were certain years, decades, or eras just down years? Are the recent years just anomalies, or is it a sustainable trend?

I don't know the answers, just places I would have to look in order to definitively say it is increasing as much as it appears.

Qualitatively, I don't think any of these guys are going to end up in the hall of fame like McHale, etc. I don't think any of these guys will even be an NBA All-Star caliber guy....maybe not even NBA starter material. Possibly Hurt, but likely nobody else. Think Tyus Jones, great college player, a ton of fanfare out of high school, but he's a marginal NBA guy. We have produced better players relative to the competition in the past on a smaller scale.

It would be interesting thing to really analayze sometime, instead of hyperbolically throwing out that it's the greatest of all time. I don't think there's any doubt that the State is in a very, very good condition. Hopefully football follows suit in the near future.
 


Ewert86PC said:
It sounds like a very good trend.

There are a couple things that the Gophers need to do. First, get on the players minds as a worthwhile school to play for. Second, beat out other Power 5 schools in recruiting these players.

This has been our problem for the last twenty-plus years.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Agreed.

As a former high school wrestler, and father and uncle of wrestlers, I don't have any connection to high school basketball in the state. I could really care less.

I'm a fan of Gopher basketball because I grew up watching it on TV with my father and brother.

Hurt, Jones, Vaughn, etc do nothing for me unless they stay in MN. In fact, wen they leave it just makes me hate the corrupt AAU system and people like senior Hurt even more.

I won't disclose my career, but let's just say I'm in an oversight role in regards to the expenditure of tax dollars. So when I see this, my first thoughts are: They spend their whole career practicing in school gyms funded by local tax dollars, coached by coaches funded by local tax dollars, riding in busses funded by local tax dollars (I know there are various other funding sources in some cases, but the principle stands). People in the community invest significant time, energy, and emotion, into these kids, often times in lieu of their own families/children for meager pay. They make these kids what they are. Then, you leave and let a private school like Duke and it's fans reap the revenue and entertainment rewards? It's a selfish, spoiled, disloyal thing to do and kind of a microcosm of some societal problems, IMO.
 

Heracles said:
Agreed.

As a former high school wrestler, and father and uncle of wrestlers, I don't have any connection to high school basketball in the state. I could really care less.

I'm a fan of Gopher basketball because I grew up watching it on TV with my father and brother.

Hurt, Jones, Vaughn, etc do nothing for me unless they stay in MN. In fact, wen they leave it just makes me hate the corrupt AAU system and people like senior Hurt even more.

I won't disclose my career, but let's just say I'm in an oversight role in regards to the expenditure of tax dollars. So when I see this, my first thoughts are: They spend their whole career practicing in school gyms funded by local tax dollars, coached by coaches funded by local tax dollars, riding in busses funded by local tax dollars (I know there are various other funding sources in some cases, but the principle stands). People in the community invest significant time, energy, and emotion, into these kids, often times in lieu of their own families/children for meager pay. They make these kids what they are. Then, you leave and let a private school like Duke and it's fans reap the revenue and entertainment rewards? It's a selfish, spoiled, disloyal thing to do and kind of a microcosm of some societal problems, IMO.
Click to expand...

so you're saying that kids should go to their local colleges because they owe it to that area? So if you're a great basketball player growing up in Wyoming you owe it to your state to go there? That's a wild line of thought. Essentially you're advocating for complete provincialism when making a choice that will largely define the rest of your life and anyone that doesn't choose that is selfish and spoiled because other areas get to reap the 'entertainment value' you bring? So these kids are essentially just entertainment commodities that should dance at your pleasure. That's just an amazing hot take
 

Heracles said:
Have they produced this quantity of players in the past? No. But, there are other things to consider when comparing certain eras. For example, there could be more D1 scholarship players because there are more D1 schools. There may be a higher participation percentage. The state could be more populous. Are the ratios of population and participation related to the output higher? Were certain years, decades, or eras just down years? Are the recent years just anomalies, or is it a sustainable trend?

I don't know the answers, just places I would have to look in order to definitively say it is increasing as much as it appears.

Qualitatively, I don't think any of these guys are going to end up in the hall of fame like McHale, etc. I don't think any of these guys will even be an NBA All-Star caliber guy....maybe not even NBA starter material. Possibly Hurt, but likely nobody else. Think Tyus Jones, great college player, a ton of fanfare out of high school, but he's a marginal NBA guy. We have produced better players relative to the competition in the past on a smaller scale.

It would be interesting thing to really analayze sometime, instead of hyperbolically throwing out that it's the greatest of all time. I don't think there's any doubt that the State is in a very, very good condition. Hopefully football follows suit in the near future.
Click to expand...

I think the OP is referring primarily to high-major talent, the sorts of players the Gophers would be interested in. I would imagine the total number of D1 schools has gone up, but most of those newly D1 programs would be low- and mid-major teams, which wouldn't affect the number of high-major offers going out. The number of high-major programs has probably been about the same, with maybe a few programs moving up in status in the last couple decades like Gonzaga and maybe VCU or Butler. The 2017, 2018, and 2019 each have had at least 4 high major players, and 2020 I think is at 3 currently with Suggs, Carlson, and Garcia. Like probably most people here, I don't know how many guys without Gopher offers are going to Wofford or Drake or South Dakota State each year. They exist, and by definition they are D1 basketball players, but I don't know how the talent level has fluctuated on the low end over the years.
 

oleboy41 said:
so you're saying that kids should go to their local colleges because they owe it to that area? So if you're a great basketball player growing up in Wyoming you owe it to your state to go there? That's a wild line of thought. Essentially you're advocating for complete provincialism when making a choice that will largely define the rest of your life and anyone that doesn't choose that is selfish and spoiled because other areas get to reap the 'entertainment value' you bring? So these kids are essentially just entertainment commodities that should dance at your pleasure. That's just an amazing hot take
Click to expand...
Great rebuttal, Lonzo. Truly Big Baller Brand ReButtal.

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Back in the 70's we had McHale, Lingenfelter, Olberding and a few others who all came out in a few short years. But back then the only high major caliber players you heard of from Minnesota were the big guys. Bruer would be another example.

Back then it was extremely rare to see a skill or small player some from Minnesota. El-Amin was really the first highly polished guard I can think of from Minnesota. Then there was Bell and a few others.

In the past five years you can easily list off skill players who came from Minnesota. Heck, there are 3 that will or are in the NBA from Apple Valley alone! Add in Vaugn, Travis and J.P. and you have some really high level talent all of whom are below 6'10" in height!

That's the difference, we now produce high level players with skill, not just genetic freaks of nature who can dominate because of their size. McHale was such a nightmare to guard, not just because he is 6'10" but his arms are so long and his chest is so thick with those huge broad shoulders he created space just standing still. Add in his fade away jumper and he was all but unstoppable. Now imagine him trying to guard Kevin Durant. Basketball has changed and you need to be athletic and skilled.
 

Back in the 70's we had McHale, Lingenfelter, Olberding and a few others who all came out in a few short years. But back then the only high major caliber players you heard of from Minnesota were the big guys. Bruer would be another example.

Back then it was extremely rare to see a skill or small player some from Minnesota. El-Amin was really the first highly polished guard I can think of from Minnesota. Then there was Bell and a few others.

In the past five years you can easily list off skill players who came from Minnesota. Heck, there are 3 that will or are in the NBA from Apple Valley alone! Add in Vaugn, Travis and J.P. and you have some really high level talent all of whom are below 6'10" in height!

That's the difference, we now produce high level players with skill, not just genetic freaks of nature who can dominate because of their size. McHale was such a nightmare to guard, not just because he is 6'10" but his arms are so long and his chest is so thick with those huge broad shoulders he created space just standing still. Add in his fade away jumper and he was all but unstoppable. Now imagine him trying to guard Kevin Durant. Basketball has changed and you need to be athletic and skilled.
 

Heracles said:
Agreed.

As a former high school wrestler, and father and uncle of wrestlers, I don't have any connection to high school basketball in the state. I could really care less.

I'm a fan of Gopher basketball because I grew up watching it on TV with my father and brother.

Hurt, Jones, Vaughn, etc do nothing for me unless they stay in MN. In fact, wen they leave it just makes me hate the corrupt AAU system and people like senior Hurt even more.

I won't disclose my career, but let's just say I'm in an oversight role in regards to the expenditure of tax dollars. So when I see this, my first thoughts are: They spend their whole career practicing in school gyms funded by local tax dollars, coached by coaches funded by local tax dollars, riding in busses funded by local tax dollars (I know there are various other funding sources in some cases, but the principle stands). People in the community invest significant time, energy, and emotion, into these kids, often times in lieu of their own families/children for meager pay. They make these kids what they are. Then, you leave and let a private school like Duke and it's fans reap the revenue and entertainment rewards? It's a selfish, spoiled, disloyal thing to do and kind of a microcosm of some societal problems, IMO.
Click to expand...

So really no one that used a public facility growing up (and their parents taxes paid for) should ever leave the state ! Other states would do the same and we would get crushed. We must make sure we stop young people from going after their dreams, especially the ones who have worked for it.
 



The depth today is better than it has ever been, not sure the top NBA type talent has changed that much but there are so many good D1 prospects in the state compared to past periods.

I also think exposures is so much better today than in the past, I played with a kid in high school in the early 70's that really wanted to play for the Gophers, Musselman was loaded at his position, Olberding was signed, Landsberger was on the team, he just never got a sniff, he ended up at Jacksonville State who was a couple of years from a final four appearance, today he would have had other Big Ten and power 5 conference offers.
 

There is way more high-end talent in the state of MN today than 20 years ago.

I remember being in grade school and hearing about the legend of Sam Jacobson. An athlete of his caliber was rare in the state. It isn't rare anymore.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
There is way more high-end talent in the state of MN today than 20 years ago.

I remember being in grade school and hearing about the legend of Sam Jacobson. An athlete of his caliber was rare in the state. It isn't rare anymore.
Click to expand...

In successive years, Clem had to strain himself to find a single player within the state that was worthy of a high major offer. This after claiming he wanted to bring in the best player from the state each year. I believe it was the class after Kevin Lynch where he couldn’t find a single player to give that schollie to and then wound up giving it to the likes of Ernest Nzigamasabo and Chad Kolander in ensuing years. If you’re looking for reasons in this uptick over the past few decades, consider 1) the rise of AAU and Minnesota’s adaption to it 2) the increase in the state’s African and African-American populations (as a state our population had grown synchronously with the country’s but our deomgraphics have changed a lot and 3) the increasing popularity of basketball in this state, perhaps somewhat aligned with the inception of the T-wolves in 1989.

The state’s talent level has grown by leaps and bounds in 30 years time.


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