Happy Five, Upset Five Fanbases: Week 1 (Upset: Minnesota; "This game showed us zero imagination and risk from the Gophers")

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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Per Mike:

Minnesota​

PJ Fleck will always rub people the wrong way with his mannerisms and persona, most of these people overlook how consistent and competitive he’s been at a school where has rarely existed in the modern era. This game showed us zero imagination and risk from the Gophers. People don’t want this, and it will give the Fleck haters ammo to come after him if they don’t give Max Brosmer a longer leash.


Go Gophers!!
 


PJ has no concept of playing to “put the other team away.” It is like he slows down and retards the offense to keep it a close game. Have some confidence in your team in the red zone; at least try! Creativity is not a sin. 😖
 

salzie said:
Good summary

I typically defend pj

But I can't take this pathetic offense much longer. I'm not asking for college playoffs here
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Agreed. Let's see some risk, air the ball out a bit. If your coordinator is incapable of creating a scheme where we spray the ball around, it's time to move on from him.
 



I get that people want to see a flashier offense that throws the ball around more. Heck, I wouldn't be against that either but the reality of it all is that Fleck is very risk averse so he isn't likely to go for a flashy offense unless he is sure he has the personnel that can execute it (2019) and his conservative style, while not exciting, has us in position to win games more often than it doesn't.

We had a very makeable kick to win the game against North Carolina unfortunately our kicker had a really bad day and because of that and some other mistakes we ended up coming up short.

First games are weird, and teams grow a lot from week 1 to week 2. I want to see how the offense evolves under Brosmer before throwing in the towel after a close loss in a game most viewed as a tossup against a solid opponent.
 

I feel like the theory behind conservative, control the clock strategy is that it prevents you from making mistakes that would cost you a game you are favored in, and let you hang around long enough to steal one (possibly by capitalizing on a mistake) against a top tier team you "shouldn't" beat.

In practice in recent years, it seems to work out the opposite. We let teams we've been favored against by 7+ (or 30+!) stay in the game and eventually beat us, and we've been failing to balance those out with comparable upset wins of our own.

A big part of this seems to be special teams (and I'm not talking about missed field goals). If you are going to play that kind of offense. You need good (not necessarily explosive) kickoff and punt returns and coverage and coverage. That means being able to consistently steal a few yards if field position by hitting your assignments on coverage and making good catch and return decisions (while not giving up a catastrophic play in either direction on returns). Unfortunately, we've seen the opposite.
 

I’m going to stop using “conservative” to describe PJ’s offense. It is “uncreative and predictable.” In games in which teams are essentially evenly matched, the team with a creative offensive approach, one containing elements unexpected by the opponent, often gains a brief maybe longer advantage which it can exploit. Creativity is even more important when facing a team against which you are overmatched.

How many times has PJ said, in explaining a loss, that the other team did some things we didn’t expect (thus ringing up some early big gains)? I struggle to remember when an opposing coach, discussing a Gopher victory, explained that the Gophers did things the opponent didn’t expect. PJ’s offense either executes an uncreative and predictable offensive game plan without mistakes, giving the Gophers a chance at a close victory in a toss up game, or makes it a few too many mistakes in execution and the Gophers losses. But, lately, on offense, the Gophers seem never to do anything disruptive, creative or unexpected—which involves some risk—to strike a big play and gain a slight intellectual advantage in the game.

That is why the Gopher offense seems so boring. It is. PJ plays it safe; more safe with each passing season (it feels like). Is playing it safe all the time the key to winning toss up games (against teams that take chances)? Who knows? But it is a lot more fun and inspiring to watch offenses that are creative.
 
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Jack jones said:
More games are lost than actually won. He plays not to lose. Won’t work against good competition.
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That's exactly what happened last Thursday. The Goph's were in position to win after 60 minutes but still found a way to lose. Missed kicks and key penalties.
 



Gophergrandpa said:
I’m going to stop using “conservative” to describe PJ’s offense. It is “uncreative and predictable.” In games in which teams are essentially evenly matched, the team with a creative offensive approach, one containing elements unexpected by the opponent, often gains a brief maybe longer advantage which they can exploit. Creativity is even more important when facing a team against which you are overmatched.

How many times has PJ said, in explaining a loss, that the other team did some things we didn’t expect (thus ringing up some early big gains)? I struggle to remember when an opposing coach, discussing a Gopher victory, explained that the Gophers did things the opponent didn’t expect. PJ’s offense either executes an uncreative and predictable offensive game plan without mistakes, giving us a chance at a close victory in toss up games, or makes a few too many mistakes in execution and losses. But, lately, on offense, the Gophers seem never to do anything disruptive, creative or unexpected to strike a big play and gain a slight intellectual advantage in the game.
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Very good post Grandpa, good way to think about it. Hope we finally become creative and unpredictable!
 

in another reality, I'd like to see the Gophers use the next two games as glorified practices. just go out there and work on stuff. throw the ball 35+ times a game. try different formations, different routes. use every healthy player on the team and give them snaps to evaluate how they perform in game conditions. mix it up. put stuff on tape that Iowa has to prepare for.

in the reality we exist in, Fleck will go out there and do the absolute minimum needed to win the game with the least risk possible. and then declare that the team made great strides forward.

et sic ad infinitum
 

I was more concerned with how the Gophers couldn't run the ball against a team that's been in the 90s nationally in run defense the last few years than I was with the passing.

The Gophers were even-up with a favored, quality P5 opponent with better recruits. They don't suck when looked at as a whole. But if they can't run the ball we're in for a long season.
 




fmlizard said:
I was more concerned with how the Gophers couldn't run the ball against a team that's been in the 90s nationally in run defense the last few years than I was with the passing.

The Gophers were even-up with a favored, quality P5 opponent with better recruits. They don't suck when looked at as a whole. But if they can't run the ball we're in for a long season.
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Although we have a reputation for being a heavy rushing team, we do have games every year where we can't seem to run the ball. We had even fewer rushing yards in last year's opener against Nebraska. Taylor had only one carry in that one.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I feel like the theory behind conservative, control the clock strategy is that it prevents you from making mistakes that would cost you a game you are favored in, and let you hang around long enough to steal one (possibly by capitalizing on a mistake) against a top tier team you "shouldn't" beat.

In practice in recent years, it seems to work out the opposite. We let teams we've been favored against by 7+ (or 30+!) stay in the game and eventually beat us, and we've been failing to balance those out with comparable upset wins of our own.

A big part of this seems to be special teams (and I'm not talking about missed field goals). If you are going to play that kind of offense. You need good (not necessarily explosive) kickoff and punt returns and coverage and coverage. That means being able to consistently steal a few yards if field position by hitting your assignments on coverage and making good catch and return decisions (while not giving up a catastrophic play in either direction on returns). Unfortunately, we've seen the opposite.
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Iowa wins with even worse offense. And you nailed it with the special teams as a reason. Yes they have a better defense, but we’ve had mostly good defense over the last few years too. They seem to make way more plays on special teams than we do.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I get that people want to see a flashier offense that throws the ball around more. Heck, I wouldn't be against that either but the reality of it all is that Fleck is very risk averse so he isn't likely to go for a flashy offense unless he is sure he has the personnel that can execute it (2019) and his conservative style, while not exciting, has us in position to win games more often than it doesn't.

We had a very makeable kick to win the game against North Carolina unfortunately our kicker had a really bad day and because of that and some other mistakes we ended up coming up short.

First games are weird, and teams grow a lot from week 1 to week 2. I want to see how the offense evolves under Brosmer before throwing in the towel after a close loss in a game most viewed as a tossup against a solid opponent.
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I'd be thrilled if your assessment is right and this offense improves drastically as the season progresses. Problem is, we're seeing the same offense we've seen for years and our regular opponents have figured it out. No longer can we plan on winning 8+ games with 70% of plays being runs because they know it's coming. Nothing has changed.

Much like last year, we can't throw so our opponents will fill the box until we show we can. If we don't get the passing game fixed, our defense is going to get slaughtered once we hit the second half in every game come conference play because our offense can't stay on the field and keep our defense rested.

I'll be one of the first naysayers to come out and say I was wrong if our fortunes turn and we develop a competent pass game. Problem is, I'm not seeing it happening and there's precedence in terms of coordinator incompetence (maybe even head coaching meddling) to show that.
 

mngg11 said:
I'd be thrilled if your assessment is right and this offense improves drastically as the season progresses. Problem is, we're seeing the same offense we've seen for years and our regular opponents have figured it out. No longer can we plan on winning 8+ games with 70% of plays being runs because they know it's coming. Nothing has changed.

Much like last year, we can't throw so our opponents will fill the box until we show we can. If we don't get the passing game fixed, our defense is going to get slaughtered once we hit the second half in every game come conference play because our offense can't stay on the field and keep our defense rested.

I'll be one of the first naysayers to come out and say I was wrong if our fortunes turn and we develop a competent pass game. Problem is, I'm not seeing it happening and there's precedence in terms of coordinator incompetence (maybe even head coaching meddling) to show that.
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The Gophs were well under last year's 70% run attempts. The official results were:
40% 22 Pass Attempts
60% 33 Run Attempts

Adjust the results for the 5 sacks that were actually pass attempts booked as rush attempts you get:
49% 27 Pass Play Attempts
51% 28 Rush Attempts

Adjust again for Brosmer's 4 other non-sack carries that (I think) were pass play scrambles after being pressured:
56% 31 Pass Play Attempts
44% 24 Run Play Attempts

I can live with that run/pass mix. The issue last week was the Gophs not being able to solve UNC's playing 9+ guys in the box until later in the game. That pissed me off a bit. Teams like Illinois have done that for several years and the Gophs still struggle with it.
 

salzie said:
Good summary

I typically defend pj

But I can't take this pathetic offense much longer. I'm not asking for college playoffs here
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That's where I'm at. I've defended him, and continue to defend him if someone comes out with a "fire him" vibe. But it's getting really hard to believe he has another gear waiting to be unlocked. I'm now 70/30 in the camp that thinks 2019 was the ceiling with him.
It was a helluva ceiling, but I always believed we could do that every 3-4 seasons.
 


Panthadad2 said:
The Gophs were well under last year's 70% run attempts. The official results were:
40% 22 Pass Attempts
60% 33 Run Attempts

Adjust the results for the 5 sacks that were actually pass attempts booked as rush attempts you get:
49% 27 Pass Play Attempts
51% 28 Rush Attempts

Adjust again for Brosmer's 4 other non-sack carries that (I think) were pass play scrambles after being pressured:
56% 31 Pass Play Attempts
44% 24 Run Play Attempts

I can live with that run/pass mix. The issue last week was the Gophs not being able to solve UNC's playing 9+ guys in the box until later in the game. That pissed me off a bit. Teams like Illinois have done that for several years and the Gophs still struggle with it.
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Yep, teams are going to play to stop the run. That's what's even more mind boggling that we lack any type of deep threat. A deep pass or two will soften up the defense. We're now 15 straight games without a 40+ yard play.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Yep, teams are going to play to stop the run. That's what's even more mind boggling that we lack any type of deep threat. A deep pass or two will soften up the defense. We're now 15 straight games without a 40+ yard play.
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I wasn't at the game on Saturday. TV cameras almost never show receivers downfield, so I'm just guessing on this. There could be deep threats, but the QB has to take the risk. I wouldn't be surprised if the QBs since 2019 are coached to not throw 50-50 balls like they did in 2019 with two NFL quality receivers. It doesn't help when the QB is getting chased all over the field like Brosmer was on Saturday.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
in another reality, I'd like to see the Gophers use the next two games as glorified practices. just go out there and work on stuff. throw the ball 35+ times a game. try different formations, different routes. use every healthy player on the team and give them snaps to evaluate how they perform in game conditions. mix it up. put stuff on tape that Iowa has to prepare for.
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First, I 100% agree with this…..but PJ won’t do it. History says PJ is more likely to do the exact opposite and run it even more because he can.

Second, while the game with Rhode Island should be a glorified practice, I don’t think the Nevada game is going to be that way. The Nevada team I watched against SMU was much better under this new coaching staff. Their defense was very good and aggressive and gave a pretty good SMU offense fits for much of that game. Then the Wolfpack get a road win this weekend at Troy. My point is that Nevada looks “competent” and one of those games that PJ will give away just like others describe above in posts. He’s going to try to do just enough to get by and no more. Don’t be surprised if we are relying on Kesich to win that game with a field goal.
 

mngg11 said:
I'd be thrilled if your assessment is right and this offense improves drastically as the season progresses. Problem is, we're seeing the same offense we've seen for years and our regular opponents have figured it out. No longer can we plan on winning 8+ games with 70% of plays being runs because they know it's coming. Nothing has changed.

Much like last year, we can't throw so our opponents will fill the box until we show we can. If we don't get the passing game fixed, our defense is going to get slaughtered once we hit the second half in every game come conference play because our offense can't stay on the field and keep our defense rested.

I'll be one of the first naysayers to come out and say I was wrong if our fortunes turn and we develop a competent pass game. Problem is, I'm not seeing it happening and there's precedence in terms of coordinator incompetence (maybe even head coaching meddling) to show that.
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Look, you 100% could be right but it is too soon to assume we know exactly what this offense under Harbaugh and with Brosmer under center is going to look like based only on just the first game.

North Carolina is on par with most of the Big Ten and they didn't slaughter us in the second half. Also as was pointed out in a different post, the run/pass ration was far closer to 50/50 than 70/30.

It remains to be seen what the 2024 offense looks like but it is too early to draw any massive conclusions based off of week 1.
 


I don’t know why people are so upset. The game was managed pretty well and we had our All-B1G kicker set up to win the game!

He let Brosmer do his thing to set up those late FG attempts. Not his fault Keish missed.

The offense will improve over time. Have some patience.
 

Otis said:
I don’t know why people are so upset. The game was managed pretty well and we had our All-B1G kicker set up to win the game!

He let Brosmer do his thing to set up those late FG attempts. Not his fault Keish missed.

The offense will improve over time. Have some patience.
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Well said, but that kind of thinking doesn't fly around here after a loss. Too many people still acting like we lost to some crap team where we were heavy favorites. This was a toss up game and we were right there with a chance to win it at the end and came up short.
 

This whole offensive play calling/OC crap is garbage. The O line didn't block very well and NC is pretty good on the DL. Everyone needs to calm down.
 

LesBolstad said:
This whole offensive play calling/OC crap is garbage. The O line didn't block very well and NC is pretty good on the DL. Everyone needs to calm down.
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Hey now....don't go trying to be rational or see multiple sides of things.

We lost because the OC wasn't allowed to call the correct plays by the head coach....that is the only reason....execution, injuries, opponent.....none of that other crap factors in. :)
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I feel like the theory behind conservative, control the clock strategy is that it prevents you from making mistakes that would cost you a game you are favored in, and let you hang around long enough to steal one (possibly by capitalizing on a mistake) against a top tier team you "shouldn't" beat.

In practice in recent years, it seems to work out the opposite. We let teams we've been favored against by 7+ (or 30+!) stay in the game and eventually beat us, and we've been failing to balance those out with comparable upset wins of our own.

A big part of this seems to be special teams (and I'm not talking about missed field goals). If you are going to play that kind of offense. You need good (not necessarily explosive) kickoff and punt returns and coverage and coverage. That means being able to consistently steal a few yards if field position by hitting your assignments on coverage and making good catch and return decisions (while not giving up a catastrophic play in either direction on returns). Unfortunately, we've seen the opposite.
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I love this post! This is a point that seems to be lost with our fan base. When was the last time (OR has it ever happened under Fleck?) we 'upset' a team we should never have beaten because we did enough, or prevented enough from happening, where we hung around and won the game with a huge play?

We have zero chance against the big boys these days due to Fleck as he plays the same way against Northwestern as we play against Michigan. I've never witnessed a coach be SO risk averse as he is. It makes the games so hard to watch for me... I know, then don't watch, but sorry, this has always been my team, so that's not an option but it so excruciatingly painful to sit through! Which is why I now record the games and fly through them.
 

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