Hank Bachmeier and Max Duggan

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Spoofin said:
Do our coaches deserve any blame for the train wreck that was our 2017 season?


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I'm going to guess on this one... "No?"
 

Word said:
I think it could be argued that the coaches didn't exactly put our QBs in the best position to succeed. I agree that Croft wasn't very good, but I don't think our game planning helped him one bit.
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How may balls did our WRs drop the last two games? I think I've heard at least 10, if not an even higher number. Tough to succeed on offense when your QB isn't good, and you have WRs who can't catch balls that hit them in the hands.
 





Taji34 said:
So, I think we still have a shot. Maybe a long one, but still there.
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someone post that meme about ending a relationship with xyz thing and now best friends with abc thing. That's appropriate here, cause I thought Hank Bachmeier was garbage until today. And before I knew who Duggan was, I thought Hank was the sh1t. I'm back into thinking Hank is the man!
 

Word said:
I think it could be argued that the coaches didn't exactly put our QBs in the best position to succeed. I agree that Croft wasn't very good, but I don't think our game planning helped him one bit.
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Yes all of this is chicken vs egg. Too many questions, too many variables.

The margin for error is very thin for this team. IMHO Croft had some ability. He needed help to reach full potential. He also needed some things tweeked to his strengths. He wasn't alone. Watching the OL, I wondered if some things didn't need adjustment. Wide receivers. Was it them, or were adjustments necessary? Going further off topic, how did a decent defense under perform? We know they had ability.

In fairness, I know that the staff is trying to build for the long term, and I also know that they needed to learn some things as well. Perhaps the reality is that it may take a few seasons to land a "top QB". That is unless there is a top QB out there that wants a bit of a challenge and believes he can lead this program to the top.
 

Maybe Max was our first choice and Hank didn't have a committable offer until Max committed to TCU? 2nd time's the charm!
 




Isn't the story that Hank's dad wants him playing on the left coast somewhere?
 

alchemy2u said:
Read his interview from a week or so ago. He said he felt comfortable with the spread like offense at TCU because it was similar to what he ran in High School. He also thought it was an easier offense to play in. Stop trying to blame it all on the weather, PJ, our lack of a passing game last year, etc.


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Just wondering. Does this help him play in the NFL as he continues to play in a spread system? Or does this hurt his career? Perhaps no difference.
 





Triple D said:
Well we finished the last 2 games down 0-70, it has to get somewhat better?
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Well, with this perspective you have nowhere to go but up.

A little off topic here.

All kidding aside, IMHO last season was a lost cause and PJF let the season play out as he evaluated existing players and cleaned house of non-performers through encouragement at seasons end. Croft was not buying in and the suspensions did not help. It was clear that he was not his guy moving forward.
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While it would have been nice to have four star QBs committed, teams can win with two & three star players. The value of four star QBs maybe that they may attract other high caliber recruits. Legitimately, a great QB can carry the team. But, developing a strong supporting cast may ultimately be what would bring wins.

I can understand every QB prospect go through deciding which schools give them their best chances of starting. With Max Duggan, it boils down being comfortable with a system similar to the one he ran in HS. He is comfortable with competing against two other higher rated QBs ahead of him.

QBs want to go to schools that "enhances" their chances of getting drafted. Power 5 or more "established" programs with winning records. But, then there may be a boat load of competition at QB at these programs.

Some two & three star players actually out perform their four star counterparts and end up getting drafted into the NFL.

I looked up the 32 quarterbacks who were drafted in 2015, 2016, and 2017 (I don't have time to compile the data yet). Seventeen out of the thirty two that were drafted were two & three star players. Although there are a lot more 2 & 3 Star players than 5 & 4 Stars, it is interesting to note that these players can get drafted although percentage wise it is in favor of 4 & 5 Stars.

Of the two & three star players in 2015-2017, 4 were 1st round draft picks, 3 were 3rd rounders, 4 were 4th, 1 was a 5th rounder, 3 were 6th, and 2 were 7th rounders.

Marcus Mariota from Oregon (Composite Rating of 0.8631) was the #2 selection in the 1st Round just after Jameis Winston in the 2015 NFL Draft.

In 2016, an unrated QB and a two star QB were drafted in the 1st Round. Carson Wentz from NDSU (Unrated) when #2 overall. Two Star Paxton Lynch from Memphis (Composite Rating of 0.7898) was the #26 selection in the 1st Round.

In the 2017 NFL Draft, Three Star Patrick Mahomes from Texas Tech (Composite Rating of 0.8807) was selected 10th overall in the 1st Round.
 

hungan1 said:
Well, with this perspective you have nowhere but up.

A little off topic here.

All kidding aside, IMHO last season was a lost cause and PJF let the season play out as he evaluated existing players and cleaned house of non-performers through encouragement at seasons end. Croft was not buying in and the suspensions did not help. It was clear that he was not his guy moving forward.
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While it would have been nice to have four star QBs committed, teams can win with two & three star players. The value of four star QBs maybe that they may attract other high caliber recruits. But, developing a strong supporting cast may ultimately be what would bring wins.

I can understand every QB prospect go through deciding which schools give them their best chances of starting. With Max Duggan, it boils down being comfortable with a system similar to the one he ran in HS. He is comfortable with competing against two other higher rated QBs ahead of him.

QBs want to go to schools that "enhances" their chances of getting drafted. Power 5 or more "established" programs with winning records. But, then there may be more competition as these programs have a boat load of competition at QB.

Some two & three star players actually out perform their four star counterparts and end getting drafted into the NFL.

I looked up the 32 quarterbacks who were drafted in 2015, 2016, and 2017 (I don't have time to compile the data yet). Seventeen out of the thirty two that were drafted were two & three star players. Although there are a lot more 2 & 3 Star Players than 5 & 4 Stars, it is interesting to note that these players can get drafted.

Of the two & three star players in 2015-2017, 4 were 1st round draft picks, 3 were 3rd rounders, 4 were 4th, 1 was a 5th rounder, 3 were 6th, and 2 were 7th rounders.

Marcus Mariota from Oregon (Composite Rating of 0.8631) was the #2 selection in the 1st Round just after Jameis Winston in the 2015 NFL Draft.

In 2016, an unrated QB and a three star QB were drafted in the 1st Round. Carson Wentz from NDSU (Unrated) when #2 overall. Two Star Paxton Lynch from Memphis (Composite Rating of 0.7898) was the #26 selection in the 1st Round.

In the 2017 NFL Draft, Three Star Patrick Mahomes from Texas Tech (Composite Rating of 0.8807) was selected 10th overall in the 1st Round.
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Stars are a good indicator of potential, but they are not infallible. They are based upon rumors, expectations, level of competition, athleticism, performance, offers, etc, etc, etc.
Teams can win without all-star QB’s, but teams win more if they have a QB that can make plays out of nothing. A QB that can extend drives in-spite of dropped passes, broken plays, penalties, missed blocks, etc is needed for a team to win at a big level. Look how much Auburn improved with Cam Newton.


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#2Gopher said:
Just wondering. Does this help him play in the NFL as he continues to play in a spread system? Or does this hurt his career? Perhaps no difference.
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Patterson can at least claim putting Qbs in the NFL. Dalton and Boykin (until recently). What can UMN claim?


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WHB Brewer said:
Patterson can at least claim putting Qbs in the NFL. Dalton and Boykin (until recently). What can UMN claim?


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we put guys in the same league as Johnny Manziel
 

gophers141 said:
Hank visiting 4/28
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This is no joke, is it? Any credible source?

Previously, I thought he and his dad was rumored to favor Boise State. Then, other offers popped up and now favoring a field of eight program names? None of which is MN.
 

WHB Brewer said:
Patterson can at least claim putting Qbs in the NFL. Dalton and Boykin (until recently). What can UMN claim?
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Recruits shouldn't care what prior Gopher staffs did. Those coaches aren't here. Relevant point is what THIS staff has done. Ciarrocca has a good record -- developed two NFL draftee QBs while OC at Delaware, including Joe Flacco, and turned Zach Terrell from a nobody into a guy that had 33 TDs and 4 Ints his senior year.

I get that it's not quite what TCU can sell at this point, but it's significant nonetheless. That, plus being closer to home and having a far longer relationship (and a more prestigious conference and school) is what I thought would help us beat out TCU.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
How may balls did our WRs drop the last two games? I think I've heard at least 10, if not an even higher number. Tough to succeed on offense when your QB isn't good, and you have WRs who can't catch balls that hit them in the hands.
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So, not just DC11's fault, but still in no way the coach's fault?


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WanderingGopher said:
Recruits shouldn't care what prior Gopher staffs did. Those coaches aren't here. Relevant point is what THIS staff has done. Ciarrocca has a good record -- developed two NFL draftee QBs while OC at Delaware, including Joe Flacco, and turned Zach Terrell from a nobody into a guy that had 33 TDs and 4 Ints his senior year.
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Recruits Shouldn't, but it is what they do, because digging for that info is hard for some.

I think your on to something in selling that aspect.

Matter fact, you should make that a thread title, just for the recruits looking. NFL success stories by our current coaching staff.

I didn't look at that at all.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I am absolutely right. Diversity of offering is based on both educational philosophy and budget - neither are tied to the size of the student body in any way.
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That simply isn't what you said (which I quoted). You used a big word. Correlation. And that word has a definition. And by definition, there most certainly is a correlation between academic offerings and the size of a university.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
That simply isn't what you said (which I quoted). You used a big word. Correlation. And that word has a definition. And by definition, there most certainly is a correlation between academic offerings and the size of a university.
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But there isn't. There are big schools that have limited diversity in their offerings, small schools that have a broad range, and everything in between. There is no interdependence between the two.

And perhaps in Philly (or NW Florida, or wherever you're from) correlation is a big word, but it's not among most people with whom I associate.
 

dpodoll68 said:
But there isn't. There are big schools that have limited diversity in their offerings, small schools that have a broad range, and everything in between. There is no interdependence between the two.

And perhaps in Philly (or NW Florida, or wherever you're from) correlation is a big word, but it's not among most people with whom I associate.
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When you (both you and Philly) say diversity of offerings, do you mean number of majors, number of courses, number of colleges within the university?

It would be really interesting to see a graph of enrollment vs these factors and see what it looks like. That would settle the disagreement. I really have no idea who is right, although I would be inclined to guess that in general, the bigger the school, the more majors it will offer.
 

Word said:
When you (both you and Philly) say diversity of offerings, do you mean number of majors, number of courses, number of colleges within the university?

It would be really interesting to see a graph of enrollment vs these factors and see what it looks like. That would settle the disagreement. I really have no idea who is right, although I would be inclined to guess that in general, the bigger the school, the more majors it will offer.
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If someone can find the graph that supports or contradicts the statment I will delete my account. There cannot be 3 people on this planet that give a flying **** about the diversity of offerings at a university vs size of said university.
 

Ok, just to try and stop this pissing match.
TCU has 99 fields of study (i.e. from Arts Administration to Writing). The U-TC campus has 340 Undergraduate and 520 Graduate fields of study. Obviously a larger school has more classes to offer that a smaller private school. just checked the course catalogs from each schools.
 


dpodoll68 said:
No, not "obviously." In this case, yes - it is not always the case.
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Ya, sure. There may be a case, but this is the exact two schools that were in the discussion.
Well at least turn away from the wind.... so you can stop pissing on yourself.


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It could be that the "C" in TCU, is a factor. I'm not sure how religious he is, but that can play a factor in a recruits interest, I'm sure.

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