Green field with no markings... and possibly NO HEATING COILS

I hear what you are saying, but I keep coming back to why do the Vikings need to push the whole field issue when the Bears didn't get it in Champagne. Seems like the Vikings' requests are a bit petty to me, in the grand scheme of what's coming with their new digs.

+1

I keep remembering back to those Bears games played at the University of Illinois. Seems like a very different outcome out of the same starting point.
 

I like this statement very much, especially the last sentence, fire that off to Kaler and Teague! We're doing the Vikings a favor here, not vice versa. Let's not be treated like its some great honor to have a professional team grace our facilities, and we should now be supplicant to all the Vikings demands.
The thing is, the U has the "sole discretion" clause in legal writing already as part of the Facilities agreement. It's just that it appears to be written in a way that allows the Vikings the ability to customize the field for their games (with the customization subject to U approval). Since the content of what goes on the field appears to be subject to U oversight and the Vikings aren't allowed to contradict existing U sponsorship contracts (outside of the expressly called out Powerade deal) so I'd expect the only thing you'll see the Vikings put on the field are their end zone names, their logo, and the NFL logos.

You could argue that the U should have asked for different language when it comes to the field, but it didn't happen and that's not changing now. I also think the U would have been at a disadvantage explaining such a move as most average fans (and especially rube VIKES ARE MY WORLD fans) would wonder why the current deal isn't acceptable given that the U is still able to have it's normal branding visible for it's own games. Those folks are the vast bulk of the sports interested public in MN and they don't care enough to think farther on it. The potential PR backlash against the U is worth factoring in, especially when this deal doesn't result in any sort of branding or exposure loss for the Gophers compared to what they have today.

I hear what you are saying, but I keep coming back to why do the Vikings need to push the whole field issue when the Bears didn't get it in Champagne. Seems like the Vikings' requests are a bit petty to me, in the grand scheme of what's coming with their new digs.
The basic issue is always going to be $$$ for the Vikings. I can't explain why the Bears didn't care, although I'm betting the fact that Memorial Stadium seats more fans than Soldier Field and the fact that the temporary digs were only for one season (i.e. they prob stood to lose less money than the Vikings) played into it. Petty or no, the Vikings are pushing for what they want. I'd prefer that the U get the best deal possible, but I certainly don't think what they've agreed to is worth being upset over.
 

This sucks. Not only will the "M" not be on the field for Vikings games to help build the brand to a national audience, but on Saturdays we'll get a cheesier painted "M" that may make the field look cheap to the unaware or first time viewer.
 

+1

I keep remembering back to those Bears games played at the University of Illinois. Seems like a very different outcome out of the same starting point.

Sure, but there are certainly behind the scenes details that make the situations different which probably account for most of that. For example, Illinois didn't get any tangible stadium improvements from the deal that I'm aware of.
 

Nothing Bagley said contradicts the agreement as previously released though. The Vikings are clearly driving for the best deal, but they also aren't changing terms or anything like that. This is just more public detail that fleshes out what the language in the deal actually specifies (as it was unclear at the time of release).
What if the U thinks that from a future maintainability and operations standpoint that the heating tarp makes more sense? After all, you've got to install a really pricey support system to use the coils - a system that based on what I know of similar systems like the one at Target Field is expensive as hell to run. If the U anticipates not using it enough for that solution to be cost effective beyond the Vikings years and instead thinks the tarp is a better way to go - then If I were the U I'd be asking the Vikes to go the tarp route, especially if the end result is effectively equivalent.
 


Damn right 19. These cheap bastards should be putting in the best heating system money can buy.
Take half a billion in state funding, put in the heating coils or GTFOta here.

+1! Couldn't agree more!!
 

I have absolutely no faith in the U being able to negotiate a reasonable deal for themselves after the debacle over beer sales at TCF last year resulting in a loss. The idiots at the U will figure out a way to screw this up and when its done we'll get stuck with a $3 mil buy out of Leslie Frazier's contract.
 

What if the U thinks that from a future maintainability and operations standpoint that the heating tarp makes more sense? After all, you've got to install a really pricey support system to use the coils - a system that based on what I know of similar systems like the one at Target Field is expensive as hell to run. If the U anticipates not using it enough for that solution to be cost effective beyond the Vikings years and instead thinks the tarp is a better way to go - then If I were the U I'd be asking the Vikes to go the tarp route, especially if the end result is effectively equivalent.
This is a good point and I think if it's the U's position it makes a lot of sense.
 

I have absolutely no faith in the U being able to negotiate a reasonable deal for themselves after the debacle over beer sales at TCF last year resulting in a loss. The idiots at the U will figure out a way to screw this up and when its done we'll get stuck with a $3 mil buy out of Leslie Frazier's contract.

I'd be more worried if the actual legal document didn't makes clear all over the place that all costs are on the Vikings, anything the Vikings add to TCF is owned by the U, and that the U has veto power over essentially every decision/adaption/change the Vikings want to make.

http://stmedia.startribune.com/documents/Facility+Use+Agreement+executed+by+Vikings-04.28.2013+.pdf
 



What if the U thinks that from a future maintainability and operations standpoint that the heating tarp makes more sense? After all, you've got to install a really pricey support system to use the coils - a system that based on what I know of similar systems like the one at Target Field is expensive as hell to run. If the U anticipates not using it enough for that solution to be cost effective beyond the Vikings years and instead thinks the tarp is a better way to go - then If I were the U I'd be asking the Vikes to go the tarp route, especially if the end result is effectively equivalent.

AMEN! Do you think having heating coils is free? They have to be maintained, circulated, etc. FOREVER! Even if you don't care if the ground freezes, because the antifreeze actually can freeze (see Ice Bowl game at Lambeau). Plus you will get leaks, pumps will break down, etc. Honestly, while one game a year it might be nice if they were there, it probably isn't worth the long term hassle to the U to have the coils.

Also, can anyone tell me how much of a financial gain or how many recruits or any other gain Washington and Illinois got from their logos being on the field? Do you really think that an M in the middle of the field would benefit the U that much? Cripes, most of the country would probably think it's just a new Vikings logo (like the Twins M from 91).

As long as the Vikings replace the field when they leave (so there are permanent Gopher logos) and don't have a permanent Vikings logo that the Gophers have to play around while they are in the Bank, I'm fine with them doing whatever. Cover all the B1G championships and national championships with US Bank and Pepsi banners gameday for all I care. As long as when they leave the stadium is in as good or better shape than when they came the U ends up ahead. They are getting paid a lot of money for basically letting someone improve their stadium and use it a few days it was not otherwise going to be used. I don't see how they are getting "screwed", even if the field is green.
 

AAlso, can anyone tell me how much of a financial gain or how many recruits or any other gain Washington and Illinois got from their logos being on the field? Do you really think that an M in the middle of the field would benefit the U that much? Cripes, most of the country would probably think it's just a new Vikings logo (like the Twins M from 91).

Businesses pay a lot of money to have their logo displayed. They must think that it is beneficial.
 

I fear that if you are waiting for Prexy K to make a bold, strong statement....

Well said Sir.

I have been a Gopher fan since 1960(before the Vikings arrived) and have been a Viking fan since the mid 60's. During the 70's, 80's and even the 90's I was more heavily invested in the Vikings. The public posturing/bullying/arrogance of the Vikings is beginning to make me less and less of a Viking fan.

It's time for President Kaler to make a public statement such as..."The University of Minnesota is proud and happy to provide and in-state stadium for the Minnesota Vikings to play their home games during the years their new indoor stadium is being constructed. We look forward to working with the Vikings to help provide a positive game day atmosphere for their games at our stadium. However any and all changes to TCF Bank Stadium and field will be at the sole discretion of The University of Minnesota."



you may be waiting for a very long time. Most likely, you will just hear how pleased and happy the University is to be able to help the vikqueen organization with what ever they may need, when ever they may need it.

It really is a shame that the U doesn't appear to have a prexy who has real pride in EVERY aspect of the University of Minnesota and is always willing to stand alone to defend the integrity of all aspects of the stadium...the ICONIC Presence of that TCF BANK STADIUM...the EVER PRESENT BLOCK M that GUARDS, shows OWNERSHIP and IDENTIFIES this crown jewel LANDMARK as it constantly marks and BRANDS the East Bank Campus of the University of Minnesota...

And he apparently caved the minute the wilfs and spokespersons for the vikqueen and the nfl said they wanted more.

No, I don't look for our prexy...or our new norwood or our Football Coach or anyone over at the U to protest this latest announcement re: the vikqueen invasion of the U of M campus or of TCF BANK STADIUM. That's the way it has been ever since 1961 That is the year that the University of Minnesota administrators caved in...bowed down...failed to "keep the faith..." and without so much as a single complaint yielded to the will of the nfl and mlb and the "movers and shakers" around town who ran the "Minneapolis Mob..." and wanted the nfl and mlb in order to make the Mill City a major league town.

I certainly do hope I'm wrong about Prexy K...but...I will wait to retract my concerns until I see him stand up to those powers that be that are willing to have the vikqueen and nfl run roughshod over the University of Minnesota re: making TCF BANK STADIUM the HOME OF THE vIKQUEEN for as long as it is convenient for the vikqueen and it's billionaire owners and the nfl franchise holders...

Here we go again..."and so it goes..."

; 0 (
 

Not sure how much the "M" logo at mid-field would help. Guessing it would help a lot during September, October and hopefully November games. What I DO know is when the snow is flying and the NFL Announcers are droning on and on about how this is "real" football and how Minnesota is also a "cold, dark, miserable" place, forget about getting anybody from South of a line from Knoxville to either coast to join the Gophers.

Cue the "we don't need them", "it's not that cold" and "we don't PLAY in December" thoughts. All very true by the way. Only know that if your were recruiting against the Gophers you'd have those damn Vikings game on a loop..
 



The basic issue is always going to be $$$ for the Vikings. I can't explain why the Bears didn't care, although I'm betting the fact that Memorial Stadium seats more fans than Soldier Field and the fact that the temporary digs were only for one season (i.e. they prob stood to lose less money than the Vikings) played into it. Petty or no, the Vikings are pushing for what they want. I'd prefer that the U get the best deal possible, but I certainly don't think what they've agreed to is worth being upset over.

I'll admit, your reasonable, rational position on this has cooled my jets a bit. I do think from a public perception angle though, the Gophers should not allow themselves to look like they are rolling over for the Vikings. The beer sales negotiation fiasco was bad enough, we don't need to look foolish again, even if in the end these are all minor points. I'd think from the Viking's PR perspective though, after getting a half billion dollars in public funds for their Taj Mahal, they'd not want to look like they are pushing around the publically funded Flagship University of the state.

In my perfect world, I want the Vikings to tantrum like a spoiled child, not bully the U to get their way. They may get what they want in the end, and that's not a huge deal, but I fear perception will become reality.
 

I do think from a public perception angle though, the Gophers should not allow themselves to look like they are rolling over for the Vikings. The beer sales negotiation fiasco was bad enough, we don't need to look foolish again, even if in the end these are all minor points.
This isn't really comparable to the U losing face over booze sales though. In that situation the U lost money selling a product that should easily make money and they did so because they took a WORSE % than was originally offered by Aramark and didn't get Aramark on the hook for startup costs. The field painting is a situation where the U made a concession allowing the Vikings limited branding in a way that doesn't impact that U's branding while the U makes money and gets an improved stadium retains legal rights to veto basically anything the Vikings do.

In the former case the U actually negotiated themselves into a worse deal in a situation where making money is a no brainer. In the latter the U has actually struck a hard line on a deal that includes many things the Vikings don't want and the only real concession the U is making is that the field will be "paint on" for 2 seasons when it comes to logos and such.

I understand why the feel similar to a Gopher partisan, but objectively they are not anywhere near the same.

I'd think from the Viking's PR perspective though, after getting a half billion dollars in public funds for their Taj Mahal, they'd not want to look like they are pushing around the publically funded Flagship University of the state.
I really do doubt that most people think the Vikings are pushing the U around. The legal agreements explicitly spell out how the U has all the power in the relationship. Is the average person (many of whom are Vikings fans) going to find allowing the Vikes to paint their logo on the field unreasonable? Probably not.

In a world where the U took a hard line on the field it could easily be spun that the U was the one being unreasonable given that the Vikings are improving TCF, the Gophers have their normal branding on their gameday, the U can veto everything the Vikes want to do via the legal agreements, and that the Gophers are getting brand new branded turf when the Vikes leave. As I said, a non-interested observer (i.e. the vast % of people reading about these things, including many Gopher fans) would probably wonder why the U cares so much given everything they are getting in return.

In my perfect world, I want the Vikings to tantrum like a spoiled child, not bully the U to get their way. They may get what they want in the end, and that's not a huge deal, but I fear perception will become reality.
To be honest, the Vikings haven't gotten their way on most of the things they care about in this scenario. The U has all the legal power, the Vikings and the NFL are pretty well constrained on when they can schedule games thanks to clauses about the State Fair, no night games during a school week, preference to Gopher FB games whenever possible, and the U can veto everything while retaining all the (free to them) capital improvements.

If you want to argue that this isn't the "best" deal that was out there for the U, I'd agree (though I might not agree with how likely such a "best" deal was). But it's not a situation where the Vikings bullied the U in any significant way. Remember, the area where the U has been "bullied" is a "loss" of something (branding exposure during an NFL game) that the U never had to begin with. That's it.
 

AMEN! Do you think having heating coils is free? They have to be maintained, circulated, etc. FOREVER! Even if you don't care if the ground freezes, because the antifreeze actually can freeze (see Ice Bowl game at Lambeau). Plus you will get leaks, pumps will break down, etc. Honestly, while one game a year it might be nice if they were there, it probably isn't worth the long term hassle to the U to have the coils.

Preposterous. Houses/cabins and buildings are drained and winterized each and every year in MN for pennies. You can add antifreeze to a water mixture in your car's radiator to insure it won't freeze at 40 below(lower if you like) for pennies. Do you really think a heavy mixture of antifreeze BELOW GROUND LEVEL will freeze? Any back-yard plummer can install pipes that will last for 50 years. Check the streets of MPLS to see where they have repaired water main pipes that were installed 50-75 years ago without digging up the streets. Keep in mind those mains/pipes were no where as durable as what is available today. Running a pump long enough for Gopher games days cannot be that expensive in the grand scheme of a running stadium.

As far as the Ice Bowl Game, the antifreeze did not freeze. The system either failed or was turned off....depending on which version you believe. Do you think there may be a chance underground heating systems have been improved in the last 46 years?
 

I'm torn. I somewhat agree with Aero's comments regarding the long-term costs of the coils. Yes, they're given to the U free, and yes, as station19 points out the maintenance on them may not be as expensive (though I had to de-winterize the foreclosed house I bought for inspection and it was $100.. I imagine doing that 2x per year for a football field sized system would be a tad more). But even still, is there a monetary and/or recruiting benefit to that vs. a blanket? Getting something for free that has long-term costs without any real revenue generation is stupid (ahem, suburbia subdevelopments www.strongtowns.org). The other stuff - the POS systems, beer taps, heating in the concourses, etc all have direct fan experience positives which can generate ticket sales and possibly prices that cover the additional long-term costs.

The field is definitely stupid outside the issue of if coils should be there or not. We look very second rate with painted field in the meantime, doing so interrupts weekly stuff going on (marching band, team practice/walkthrough, etc) to paint the field each week. Yeah, there are plenty of other shots where the U gets its marketing in (the M on the back of the scoreboard, etc), but having that presence should have been part of the deal if they're not installing coils (negating the need to rip up an entire field of play).

I'm not super up in arms, but a little disappointed.
 

I'm torn. I somewhat agree with Aero's comments regarding the long-term costs of the coils. Yes, they're given to the U free, and yes, as station19 points out the maintenance on them may not be as expensive (though I had to de-winterize the foreclosed house I bought for inspection and it was $100.. I imagine doing that 2x per year for a football field sized system would be a tad more). But even still, is there a monetary and/or recruiting benefit to that vs. a blanket? Getting something for free that has long-term costs without any real revenue generation is stupid (ahem, suburbia subdevelopments www.strongtowns.org). The other stuff - the POS systems, beer taps, heating in the concourses, etc all have direct fan experience positives which can generate ticket sales and possibly prices that cover the additional long-term costs.

The field is definitely stupid outside the issue of if coils should be there or not. We look very second rate with painted field in the meantime, doing so interrupts weekly stuff going on (marching band, team practice/walkthrough, etc) to paint the field each week. Yeah, there are plenty of other shots where the U gets its marketing in (the M on the back of the scoreboard, etc), but having that presence should have been part of the deal if they're not installing coils (negating the need to rip up an entire field of play).

I'm not super up in arms, but a little disappointed.
Thanks for bringing up the fact that the painting bit does affect other things like marching band and football walkthroughs - that's a good notion. Though hopefully they'll just do the painting on Saturday and Sunday nights. There's no Monday Night games because of the rules in the agreement, so that should minimize that potential issue.

For whatever reason, I just can't get too worked up about the vikings logo painting. I just can't get all ZOMG DA U IZ MISSING OUT ON A MRKTING OPPORTUNITY!!!! YAAARRRRGGHHH! KALER AN DWOODY SO DUMB!!! SKY FALLING!! but it's the offseason, so that kind of madness is totally forgivable.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the following happens: The hint of no coils becomes a reality and the REAL reason for replacing the field is due to logos and branding. The stitched TCF Bank Stadium turf with distinctive "M" and maroon "Minnesota" end zones will be torn up early in favor of a generic field that can have Viking heads and "NFL" easily painted on. Meanwhile, the host team will take a bit of a step back with smaller, faded, branding and green end zones. Then, after the new stadium downtown is ready... The Vikings move and the practical soft spoken Minnesota genetics will kick in about how silly it would be to replace turf that is only 2 years old. The Vikings eventually do replace the TCF Bank Stadium field, in the year 2023, after many years of painting a 10 foot wide block 'M' at mid field.

This is bugging me but as others have implied, I don't intend to lose sleep over it. It is a small item in the overall big world of returning Gopher Football to prominence. It makes for much more of a topic on a college football board in June than it would in October.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the following happens: The hint of no coils becomes a reality and the REAL reason for replacing the field is due to logos and branding. The stitched TCF Bank Stadium turf with distinctive "M" and maroon "Minnesota" end zones will be torn up early in favor of a generic field that can have Viking heads and "NFL" easily painted on. Meanwhile, the host team will take a bit of a step back with smaller, faded, branding and green end zones. Then, after the new stadium downtown is ready... The Vikings move and the practical soft spoken Minnesota genetics will kick in about how silly it would be to replace turf that is only 2 years old. The Vikings eventually do replace the TCF Bank Stadium field, in the year 2023, after many years of painting a 10 foot wide block 'M' at mid field.

Again, there is a legal contract saying the field gets replaced when the Vikings leave. Unless you're suggesting the U won't enforce it, there isn't a way for the Vikings to soft pedal their way out of putting in new turf 2 seasons later.
 

I'd be more worried if the actual legal document didn't makes clear all over the place that all costs are on the Vikings, anything the Vikings add to TCF is owned by the U, and that the U has veto power over essentially every decision/adaption/change the Vikings want to make.

http://stmedia.startribune.com/documents/Facility+Use+Agreement+executed+by+Vikings-04.28.2013+.pdf

I would be more worried if Maturi was still our AD. I agree that the U should come out on top in this, but I went to school their and have seen first hand just how screwed up simple things can get.
 

GoAUpher is bringing the wood today.

I love seeing completely unrational meltdowns. Some of you are acting as if the Cleveland Browns are tearing up Ohio State's field at no cost.
 

A freakin green field they can paint and scrub. This is going to be a nightmare! Idiots!!!
 

This.

F the Vikings.

Nice post, brotha. I listened to Thorogood's Bad to the Bone, while reading it overand over again. The NFL sucks. I've read reports that expect sexual violence ton increase by over 85% on camous when the Vikings are hosting.
 

but I went to school their and have seen first hand just how screwed up simple things can get.

Trust me, I know what you're talking about. But unless you think the U's legal department enjoys failing to force other people to uphold legal agreements then there really isn't anything to worry about.
 

I am both a Vikings and Gophers fan. From a marketing standpoint, don't you think the mentioning multiple times a game by the announcers that the Vikings are playing the Minnesota Gophers stadium is as important as having something painted on the field
 

I am both a Vikings and Gophers fan. From a marketing standpoint, don't you think the mentioning multiple times a game by the announcers that the Vikings are playing the Minnesota Gophers stadium is as important as having something painted on the field

Not only mention the Minnesota Gophers Stadium often, but show pictures and videos of the amenities and the infrastructure of the stadium, locker rooms, plaza, etc.
 

I agree with Dr. Don.

For two seasons, every Vikings home game will begin with the phrase, "from TCF Bank Stadium on the University of Minnesota Campus, it's time for Vikings football." The announcers will spend part of the broadcast discussing the fact that they're playing at the U of M campus. There will be shots of the stadium and the campus. And, let's not forget, all games at TCF will be televised into the market of the visiting team - maybe even into a market where the Gophs might be recruiting. Plus, some of the games will be nationally televised, showing off the stadium to prospective recruits everywhere.

When the Gophs play, the field will be marked for the Gophers. They will not be playing Gophers games with a Viking on the center of the field. In the end, any inconvenience for the U is more than offset by the goodwill they engender by helping out the Vikes - not to mention the tangible benefits of physical improvements to the stadium, concessions, etc. and, last but not least, a big sack o' cash from the Zigster.

I do have one question - what is this heating blanket or pad they're talking about? Anyone know how it works?
 

we already have a brand new field. Painted logos aren't as effective as permanent ones. ANd why defend Ziggy over the Gophs????

They're gonna give you a brand new field after they leave, so what's the big deal?
They're gonna have the Gopher logos on Saturdays, so what's the big deal?

As for the heating coils, you realize they're deciding between that and a heated tarp right? It's not like they're going to go without any heating mechanism.

As for the advertising you guys are worried about losing, don't you think the Vikings feel the same way?
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the following happens: The hint of no coils becomes a reality and the REAL reason for replacing the field is due to logos and branding. The stitched TCF Bank Stadium turf with distinctive "M" and maroon "Minnesota" end zones will be torn up early in favor of a generic field that can have Viking heads and "NFL" easily painted on. Meanwhile, the host team will take a bit of a step back with smaller, faded, branding and green end zones. Then, after the new stadium downtown is ready... The Vikings move and the practical soft spoken Minnesota genetics will kick in about how silly it would be to replace turf that is only 2 years old. The Vikings eventually do replace the TCF Bank Stadium field, in the year 2023, after many years of painting a 10 foot wide block 'M' at mid field.

This is bugging me but as others have implied, I don't intend to lose sleep over it. It is a small item in the overall big world of returning Gopher Football to prominence. It makes for much more of a topic on a college football board in June than it would in October.

Yup. This is what I see happening. We better get the cash in escrow for the new field or we will get hosed out of the new field and will have to paint on our own home field. Only the Gophers...
 




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