Gophs open up about Gray: Point Proven.

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chi-town gopher said:
My point, Maroon, is that the article is not anything different from what Brew has said all year. The article says nothing about Gray fumbling or not being able to understand the offense, it just says that playing QB is a big transition. Brew has said that from day one.
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And the point of the whole article is to prove all of the posters here wrong who keep saying Brewster and Co. should let Gray start. Clearly he will not be ready this season. Gray admitted in the article he isn't ready to play. There was nothing substantial said about him maybe starting this season prior to this article, and it came directly from his mouth. So this argument should be put to rest.

Also, Maroon, Moses clearly impressed those at the National camps he attended which is why he has such high praise. He had substantial work outs with some of the best players in the country and played in one of the best all star games, too. With better coaching you will see a much improved athlete who makes better decisions with the ball which is what he didn't do in high school. If he does make that transition, he will have just as high of an upside as Gray. He may be big but guess what, he can move pretty good too.

All in all he has also displayed much better leadership qualities than what I have seen from Gray, too. He is very vocal while Gray is quiet. When you are on the field leading your offense, you want someone with the drive and vocal leadership to get things moving and rile people up. To me, Alipate has much better intangibles which is instrumental with QB play.

Just my 2 cents.
 


Maroon said:
I think the most critical aspect of this whole thing is that the centerpiece recruit of Brewster's entire tenure so far is apparently unable to play halfway through a season despite spending time with the team last spring and all of fall camp.
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The centerpiece of Tressel's class is also apparently unable to play halfway through his 2nd season only we are seeing that playout in public while our centerpiece is getting ready behind the scenes.
 

mesothelioma said:
There is another possibility. The coaching staff thought he was the most accomplished backup, thought he would come along faster, and tried to get him into games. However, following his fumble in the Air Force game and presumed poor performance in practice, they are continuing to hold him out from game action. Meanwhile, they are continuing to go with the 3-year starter to manage the game, warts and all. An unfortunate consequence of this is that they might end up burning his possible red-shirt.

Now I am sure everyone (possibly excluding Wisky fans) would love to have MarQueis come up to speed, but unfortunately we just have to wait.

On a related note, does anyone recall how many snaps a player has to be in on to qualify for a red-shirt. I have seen that number bandied about, but I don't recall it right now. Any chance that if he stays out of games for the rest of the year, he might qualify for a red-shirt?
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Exactly! Why are people caught up on conspiracy theories? The truth is simple, yet not that enthralling.
 

JackiO said:
Also, Maroon, Moses clearly impressed those at the National camps he attended which is why he has such high praise. He had substantial work outs with some of the best players in the country and played in one of the best all star games, too. With better coaching you will see a much improved athlete who makes better decisions with the ball which is what he didn't do in high school. If he does make that transition, he will have just as high of an upside as Gray. He may be big but guess what, he can move pretty good too.

All in all he has also displayed much better leadership qualities than what I have seen from Gray, too. He is very vocal while Gray is quiet. When you are on the field leading your offense, you want someone with the drive and vocal leadership to get things moving and rile people up. To me, Alipate has much better intangibles which is instrumental with QB play.

Just my 2 cents.
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Yes, I'm sure Alipate does impress with his size - especially when he was that big as a high schooler. People get all caught up in the numbers. But what I saw was a guy, as athletic as he is, who is very, very slow, especially when trying to project him to major college football. And he also didn't seem to have football smarts. I saw Tony Mortensen a lot too in high school, and there is no doubt in my mind that Mortensen was a better player than Alipate. Can that change? Obviously, but I didn't see anything that leads me to believe that will happen.
 


Maroon said:
Yes, I'm sure Alipate does impress with his size - especially when he was that big as a high schooler. People get all caught up in the numbers. But what I saw was a guy, as athletic as he is, who is very, very slow, especially when trying to project him to major college football. And he also didn't seem to have football smarts. I saw Tony Mortensen a lot too in high school, and there is no doubt in my mind that Mortensen was a better player than Alipate. Can that change? Obviously, but I didn't see anything that leads me to believe that will happen.
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Slow how? In terms of footwork, running, decision making or what?
 

Maroon said:
Yes, I'm sure Alipate does impress with his size - especially when he was that big as a high schooler. People get all caught up in the numbers. But what I saw was a guy, as athletic as he is, who is very, very slow, especially when trying to project him to major college football. And he also didn't seem to have football smarts. I saw Tony Mortensen a lot too in high school, and there is no doubt in my mind that Mortensen was a better player than Alipate. Can that change? Obviously, but I didn't see anything that leads me to believe that will happen.
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rothlisberger is slow, brady is slow, the manning brothers aren't blowing the doors off linebackers. he is a prototypical pocket-passer, and a pocket passer would be a great fit for the fisch offense.
 

Khaliq said:
Slow how? In terms of footwork, running, decision making or what?
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Even when he got out in space, it took him forever to get up to top speed, and that top speed wasn't very fast. He was more of a lumberer. Running around was such a big part of his game, but there's just no way I could see him doing that in college. If you take that away, he becomes strictly a passer. And he does have a big arm, but his accuracy was severely lacking, especially on the shorter "touch" throws. Lots of bullets into guys' ankles.
 

i'm batman said:
rothlisberger is slow, brady is slow, the manning brothers aren't blowing the doors off linebackers. he is a prototypical pocket-passer, and a pocket passer would be a great fit for the fisch offense.
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um, okay
 



i'm batman said:
rothlisberger is slow, brady is slow, the manning brothers aren't blowing the doors off linebackers. he is a prototypical pocket-passer, and a pocket passer would be a great fit for the fisch offense.
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He also played with an absolute horrid offensive line that didn't allow him to perform properly. Put him on Cretin's team and he would have been the Prince of the media his senior year. You can't judge someone on how they performed when he literally had no time to throw the ball once the football was snapped. When he was surrounded by talent at the combines down south, he absolutely shined.

I'm more excited by Alipate than I am with Gray to be honest with you for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. He has the leadership qualities you look for in a great QB and I just don't see that in Gray at all. Plus he has an absolute BOMB of a throw and is a pure pocket passer. The big ten is known for it's big pocket passers. With our huge offensive line that we will have coming up in the next few years, I am very excited at the prospect of him sitting back and sticking receivers with lasers which is one of his true assets.
 

Maroon said:
Even when he got out in space, it took him forever to get up to top speed, and that top speed wasn't very fast. He was more of a lumberer. Running around was such a big part of his game, but there's just no way I could see him doing that in college. If you take that away, he becomes strictly a passer. And he does have a big arm, but his accuracy was severely lacking, especially on the shorter "touch" throws. Lots of bullets into guys' ankles.
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Most of your qualms about him are easily correctable with proper coaching. And he is right, how many mobile qb's do you see in the NFL?? Look at Favre. Pure Passer and can't run for a lick. You are over exaggerating the need for mobility out of him. If he has a great arm like you say he has, that is the number one quality you look for.
 

I don't think he's saying he's downgrading him because he's not mobile, but that he relies on mobility at the high school level and that his athleticism in that aspect of his game doesn't translate to the Big Ten. If you take away one of his major weapons it doesn't sink him, but it will require some adjustment and growth.
 

Khaliq said:
I don't think he's saying he's downgrading him because he's not mobile, but that he relies on mobility at the high school level and that his athleticism in that aspect of his game doesn't translate to the Big Ten. If you take away one of his major weapons it doesn't sink him, but it will require some adjustment and growth.
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This guy gets it!
 



Maroon said:
This guy gets it!
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Reallly? That's funny because as Maroon should well know, he had to rely on his mobility because the moment the ball was snapped there were 3 defenders in the backfield on every play. Give him a line to work with and we wouldn't be talking about his mobility concerns right now. He in no way shape or form relied on his mobility because he wanted to. He had to run for his life every single play against mediocre competition or better.
 

JackiO said:
Most of your qualms about him are easily correctable with proper coaching. And he is right, how many mobile qb's do you see in the NFL?? Look at Favre. Pure Passer and can't run for a lick. You are over exaggerating the need for mobility out of him. If he has a great arm like you say he has, that is the number one quality you look for.
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Easily correctable? I don't think QBs are inaccurate simply because of improper coaching. It's not all about arm strength. Chad Pennington is a far more effective QB than JaMarcus Russell, for instance, and compare their arm strength.
 

JackiO said:
Reallly? That's funny because as Maroon should well know, he had to rely on his mobility because the moment the ball was snapped there were 3 defenders in the backfield on every play. Give him a line to work with and we wouldn't be talking about his mobility concerns right now. He in no way shape or form relied on his mobility because he wanted to. He had to run for his life every single play against mediocre competition or better.
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Well, he didn't have to run for his life on every play. I saw him throw a number of passes from the pocket, and as I said, I thought he was lacking in the accuracy department. He could definitely chuck it deep, but there's more to it than that. Does everything have to turn into a pissing contest around here? I'm simply giving my opinions of what I saw when the kid was in high school. That's all.
 

Maroon said:
Easily correctable? I don't think QBs are inaccurate simply because of improper coaching. It's not all about arm strength. Chad Pennington is a far more effective QB than JaMarcus Russell, for instance, and compare their arm strength.
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I'm not pissing about anything. I'm stating the facts.
 

JackiO said:
I'm not pissing about anything. I'm stating the facts.
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Facts, huh. You mean like there were three defenders in the backfield on EVERY PLAY that Jefferson ran while Alipate was QB? OK. Thanks for keeping it real!
 

Maroon said:
Facts, huh. You mean like there were three defenders in the backfield on EVERY PLAY that Jefferson ran while Alipate was QB? OK. Thanks for keeping it real!
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Probably more like 4 or 5 if you want to be realistic.
 

I prefer my QB's starting as Juniors. We're lucky to have Weber so we don't have to rush the process. To me a freshmen QB says more bad things about the teams recruiting and development than it does about the talent of the freshman. A freshman QB is a patch to a hole, not a good thing.
 

JackiO said:
Clearly he will not be ready this season. Gray admitted in the article he isn't ready to play.
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It's not clear to me at all. I read the article twice an didn't see any quotes from Gray (or Brewster) admitting that he's not ready to play. The most damning quote was Decker's, saying that Gray needs to work on his accuracy.

MBA Guy was right -- Brewster is trying to give him time to develop, and Gray is being patient. I think the premise of this entire thread is badly flawed.
 

Schnoodler said:
I prefer my QB's starting as Juniors. We're lucky to have Weber so we don't have to rush the process. To me a freshmen QB says more bad things about the teams recruiting and development than it does about the talent of the freshman. A freshman QB is a patch to a hole, not a good thing.
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I agree 100%
 

I'd like to see Gray get some significant playing time against South Dakota State at the very least.
 

Asked my friend who is a manager when Gray was going to start.

He said two years without a doubt.

Keep your hopes up though.
 

Gophers open up

Many of you seem to forget that these young men are not only football players but also must go to classes and keep up their grades. There is only so much time in the day to do it all. Also, some of the players had a hard time in high school and they struggle to go to college and also learn all the intricacies of Division 1 football.
 

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