Gophers tackle losing: On the court and in recruiting Minnesota's best prep basketball players

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JimmyJamesMD said:
Pitino has the world's worst incoming transfer record. And none of the freshman appear to be impactful (which is ok if your program is setup to not rely on freshman)
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Tentatively, I can agree with the second statement although I think Tre Williams has what it takes to develop into a quality starter.

I think his transfer record is much better than you're acknowledging.

The good:

Reggie Lynch (major impact player)
Akeem Springs (quality starter)
Payton Willis (decent starter)
Marcus Carr (a little rough at times but definitely a gamer)
Deandre Mathieu (quality starter and impact player)

The fair:
Matz Stockman (solid role player)
Malik Smith (streaky but probably helped more than he hurt)
Carlos Morris (was actually a fairly decent player during his junior year)

The failures (actual or tentative, to one degree or another):

Dayvonte Fitzgerald (was worth the risk but didn't pan out here)
Alihan Demir (still early but so far not so good; still has time to improve)
Brock Stull (really not much good to say here)

On the whole, I'd say the transfer record is pretty good - better than his overall record with high school and prep recruits.
 

cjbfbp said:
Tentatively, I can agree with the second statement although I think Tre Williams has what it takes to develop into a quality starter.

I think his transfer record is much better than you're acknowledging.

The good:

Reggie Lynch (major impact player)
Akeem Springs (quality starter)
Payton Willis (decent starter)
Marcus Carr (a little rough at times but definitely a gamer)
Deandre Mathieu (quality starter and impact player)

The fair:
Matz Stockman (solid role player)
Malik Smith (streaky but probably helped more than he hurt)
Carlos Morris (was actually a fairly decent player during his junior year)

The failures (actual or tentative, to one degree or another):

Dayvonte Fitzgerald (was worth the risk but didn't pan out here)
Alihan Demir (still early but so far not so good; still has time to improve)
Brock Stull (really not much good to say here)

On the whole, I'd say the transfer record is pretty good - better than his overall record with high school and prep recruits.
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But his recruiting has been so poor he is forced to be relying on transfers. There is no competition for playing time .Just hope we can steal a few minutes using a player in way over his head. And including Lynch in as a successful transfer just unfortunately isn’t the case .
 

Blackhammer said:
But his recruiting has been so poor he is forced to be relying on transfers. There is no competition for playing time .Just hope we can steal a few minutes using a player in way over his head. And including Lynch in as a successful transfer just unfortunately isn’t the case .
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I don't disagree with your first statement.

I stand by my conclusion that Reggie Lynch was a major impact player and I don't see how anyone who has any respect for the truth could say otherwise. As a player, he was the biggest reason for Pitino's most successful season. Yes, apparently he was a sexual predator and he probably got what he deserved but that doesn't negate classifying the contributions he made on the court while he was eligible as outstanding.

Don't muddle morality with performance. Call performance what that is and call morality what that is. There have been great performers in all sorts of fields who were also scoundrels.
 


cjbfbp said:
I don't disagree with your first statement.

I stand by my conclusion that Reggie Lynch was a major impact player and I don't see how anyone who has any respect for the truth could say otherwise. As a player, he was the biggest reason for Pitino's most successful season. Yes, apparently he was a sexual predator and he probably got what he deserved but that doesn't negate classifying the contributions he made on the court while he was eligible as outstanding.

Don't muddle morality with performance. Call performance what that is and call morality what that is. There have been great performers in all sorts of fields who were also scoundrels.
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Do you think that the off the court stuff affected the on court team and program and the perception of the program ? I do. He was a disaster for the program and many people knew it before he came here.
 

builtbadgers said:
Do you think that the off the court stuff affected the on court team and program and the perception of the program ? I do. He was a disaster for the program and many people knew it before he came here.
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OJ Simpson was likely a murderer but I never heard anyone try to say that as a result of that he wasn't a good football player.

Reggie was defensive player of the year in his one full year. The team achieved their best conference record in about 20 years. Before he was suspended in his final year, the team had a good record. After he was suspended, they didn't win much. I would say his presence strongly helped the basketball team when he played. Certainly his suspension hurt.

Do I think his misbehavior altered the image of the program? Not much in the short term (he was permanently suspended after all) and not at all in the long term. I would say that the misbehaviors of a very small group of football players in Claey's final year had a stronger short term effect on the image of that program but no one talks about that anymore either.
 

builtbadgers said:
Do you think that the off the court stuff affected the on court team and program and the perception of the program ? I do. He was a disaster for the program and many people knew it before he came here.
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"Many people knew it before he came here"... oh please Built, stop talking out of your ass for once. I'm sure you and your Wisconsin buddies all looked at Lynch when he transferred in and screamed sexual predator but the rest of us had no idea that he had character issues.

When you have the chance to bring in a high impact transfer you do it. He was the best rim protector the Gophers have had that I've seen play in person and was a great decision by Pitino. It just didn't work out, which is unfortunate but also part of the volatility of college recruiting.
 

What Wisconsin buddies ? Lots of coaches would not touch Lynch. There are coaches who are friends with his dad that wanted no part of him.
 





cjbfbp said:
Tentatively, I can agree with the second statement although I think Tre Williams has what it takes to develop into a quality starter.

I think his transfer record is much better than you're acknowledging.

The good:

Reggie Lynch (major impact player)
Akeem Springs (quality starter)
Payton Willis (decent starter)
Marcus Carr (a little rough at times but definitely a gamer)
Deandre Mathieu (quality starter and impact player)

The fair:
Matz Stockman (solid role player)
Malik Smith (streaky but probably helped more than he hurt)
Carlos Morris (was actually a fairly decent player during his junior year)

The failures (actual or tentative, to one degree or another):

Dayvonte Fitzgerald (was worth the risk but didn't pan out here)
Alihan Demir (still early but so far not so good; still has time to improve)
Brock Stull (really not much good to say here)

On the whole, I'd say the transfer record is pretty good - better than his overall record with high school and prep recruits.
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Lets not forget Zack as a failure, worth the risk though..
 

manderson1984 said:
No kidding, the "little richard" thing is childish and annoying. He's given everyone plenty of statistics that want him gone.
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It's "Lil' Ricky", not little richard. 40-70 in B10 play and continued swing/misses on MN top talent.
 



jovs said:
Lets not forget Zack as a failure, worth the risk though..
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Definitely worth the risk. I didn't include him because he never played here. He had a very good career after leaving here. Also, I'm not sure the failure was all on Zack's part. A less insecure coach might have been able to deal with Lofton. Two coaches subsequent to Pitino did.
 

builtbadgers said:
What for ? He knew what other coaches knew. I am not crucifying him for giving someone a chance.
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So badger says he knew what other coaches knew. Clarify, for us badger, did rp know about lynch and his sexual behavior?

Yes or know. No riding your fence.
 

Can not speak for him but how would he not know since a ton of people were whispering and staying away. Like Lofton, many people knew. Iam not convicting anyone for giving chances if they decide that is who they are. Many fine coaches do it, many fine coaches do not and each situation is different. Either way, in the case here we have not challenged for the conference title in any year. It sabotages your year when it goes bad. And it did go bad.
 

builtbadgers said:
Can not speak for him but how would he not know since a ton of people were whispering and staying away. Like Lofton, many people knew. Iam not convicting anyone for giving chances if they decide that is who they are. Many fine coaches do it, many fine coaches do not and each situation is different. Either way, in the case here we have not challenged for the conference title in any year. It sabotages your year when it goes bad. And it did go bad.
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Ah, yes. Now it is how would he not know. A ton of people were whispering. Can’t speak for him.

So you can’t speak for him but you did. Then backtracked. Then hedged.

You, badger, are full of $hit.
 

BarnBurner said:
Ah, yes. Now it is how would he not know. A ton of people were whispering. Can’t speak for him.

So you can’t speak for him but you did. Then backtracked. Then hedged.

You, badger, are full of $hit.
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Speaking for me again. Then attacking. Explaining where he may have been at is not backtracking. You act as though i am of afraid of someone else reacting on a message board. What is your own opinion of that situation without some relentless attack on mine. What is your own actual contribution to a discussion beyond insults and swearing ?
 

builtbadgers said:
Speaking for me again. Then attacking. Explaining where he may have been at is not backtracking. You act as though i am of afraid of someone else reacting on a message board. What is your own opinion of that situation without some relentless attack on mine. What is your own actual contribution to a discussion beyond insults and swearing ?
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Yes, backtracking. You spoke for rp. You, badger. You didn’t say may have been. You did not.

No attacks badger. Using your words. Not mine.

Chit show badger.
 

cjbfbp said:
Definitely worth the risk. I didn't include him because he never played here. He had a very good career after leaving here. Also, I'm not sure the failure was all on Zack's part. A less insecure coach might have been able to deal with Lofton. Two coaches subsequent to Pitino did.
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Lofton was a primadona and was disliked by teammates as well. He had a successful career and a part of that was losing his dream of playing at the U.
 

manderson1984 said:
Lofton was a primadona and was disliked by teammates as well. He had a successful career and a part of that was losing his dream of playing at the U.
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All I'm saying is that two coaches made it work while he was at their programs and Zack delivered for them. Those teams (Texas Southern and New Mexico State) both made the tournament and he was one of the primary reasons why they did (leading scorer on both). But, if you must insist on summarily dismissing any inference of possible fault on behalf of Pitino, by all means carry on.
 

cjbfbp said:
All I'm saying is that two coaches made it work while he was at their programs and Zack delivered for them. Those teams (Texas Southern and New Mexico State) both made the tournament and he was one of the primary reasons why they did (leading scorer on both). But, if you must insist on summarily dismissing any inference of possible fault on behalf of Pitino, by all means carry on.
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We all have our opinions, mine is that we should not have recruited him in the first place. Bad character.
 

cjbfbp said:
All I'm saying is that two coaches made it work while he was at their programs and Zack delivered for them. Those teams (Texas Southern and New Mexico State) both made the tournament and he was one of the primary reasons why they did (leading scorer on both). But, if you must insist on summarily dismissing any inference of possible fault on behalf of Pitino, by all means carry on.
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I also watched him quit on his team during the state tournament, forced to go to a prep because no college would touch him, have to go JUCO cause no one would touch him again, go to Illinois State and flame out and have issues there before he came to MN. His mentor even talked about how immature he was. I'm glad Zach figured it out and Richard was nice to give him a chance, but Built is probably right in that he shouldn't have.
 

manderson1984 said:
I also watched him quit on his team during the state tournament, forced to go to a prep because no college would touch him, have to go JUCO cause no one would touch him again, go to Illinois State and flame out and have issues there before he came to MN. His mentor even talked about how immature he was. I'm glad Zach figured it out and Richard was nice to give him a chance, but Built is probably right in that he shouldn't have.
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Lots of kids do that when they realize the dream is slipping away, Tyus did that in his last high school game, all of a sudden he is to injured to play the last 2 or 3 minutes of the game.
 

jovs said:
Lots of kids do that when they realize the dream is slipping away, Tyus did that in his last high school game, all of a sudden he is to injured to play the last 2 or 3 minutes of the game.
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Anybody who watched Tyus and Lofton in high school no there are no comparison. This also wasn't his first incident. Kid was a major headcase and immature. Even his mentors, people in his corner, and HE has said that. Tyus and immature have never been in the same sentence. My point is mainly Lofton did it to himself and no coach gets credit for him figuring it out or him failing. He needed to lose some opportunities and dreams and get kicked to the curb a couple times to grow up which he apparently has done.

https://theathletic.com/578875/2018/10/10/five-college-stops-and-one-big-life-lesson-in-zach-loftons-path-to-the-nba/?redirected=1/

dailyorange.com

New Mexico State’s Zach Lofton not giving up at his 5th school in 6 years

Zach Lofton has battled through a suspension and a dismissal to lead the Aggies in scoring this season.
dailyorange.com
 

Ty terry from de went off for 20pts and ten rebounds in Stanford blowout of Oklahoma...16 pts 5 rebounds 3.5 Assists...Pitino was last in line to offer him ..another genius move
 

FYI - you can't miss unless you actually take a swing....just saying
 

theczar said:
Ty terry from de went off for 20pts and ten rebounds in Stanford blowout of Oklahoma...16 pts 5 rebounds 3.5 Assists...Pitino was last in line to offer him ..another genius move
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Seems he got an offer get after Jeter showed up... also wasn't like we were last. Stop it. Stanford was always the main play and it's why he was "under-recruited". I loved the kid and the U was always in contact and aware of Terry. They spent plenty of time at DeLasalle watching Gabe and others. You post this same thing on the Wisconsin (your favorite team) board too?
 

manderson1984 said:
Seems he got an offer get after Jeter showed up... also wasn't like we were last. Stop it. Stanford was always the main play and it's why he was "under-recruited". I loved the kid and the U was always in contact and aware of Terry. They spent plenty of time at DeLasalle watching Gabe and others. You post this same thing on the Wisconsin (your favorite team) board too?
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do not let the facts get in the way of your narrative...Pitino was so soft on terry that terry texted him about picking Stanford...and gave Iowa coach Mccaffery a phone call as Fran actually made an effort
 

theczar said:
do not let the facts get in the way of your narrative...Pitino was so soft on terry that terry texted him about picking Stanford...and gave Iowa coach Mccaffery a phone call as Fran actually made an effort
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Yeah effort was so hard when Fran was at the games watching his son play. Terry being closer to Iowa over MN is true. He wasn't coming here even if we were his first offer. Iowa is proof of that.
 

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