Gophers sound like they are struggling in first half...

ball line thought

I have been told the ball-line defense was invented or established before the advent of the 3pt shot. IF so, it makes you wonder why you would doube anyone but Jared Sullinger in the big ten to leave a wide open three. Yes he kicks it diagonally and maybe one more pass.
 

I have been told the ball-line defense was invented or established before the advent of the 3pt shot. IF so, it makes you wonder why you would doube anyone but Jared Sullinger in the big ten to leave a wide open three. Yes he kicks it diagonally and maybe one more pass.

First of all, zone defense was invented long before the advent of the 3pt era. That does not necessarily render zone defense useless, though.

No matter how one slices it, ball line defense, to me, is a zone defense despite its somewhat exotic name. How often do we hear that a good zone often behaves like man to man? Ball line defense is a zone defense systematically mimicking man to man with the zone dynamically shifting to ball position and movement. In so doing, perimeter defenders need to play it a lot like man to man as defending the perimeter with max help when the ball is fed inside.

The most effective defense against long ball is man to man. Ball line defense, as far as I know, incorporates the spirit of it along the perimeter. However, in the past two seasons, we did not have enough good man to man perimeter defenders, which resulted in many wide open opportunities for our opponents.

Now, suppose that we minimize doubling up inside in order to stretch our 3 pt defense. It would mean that we would be playing more or less man to man with limited help. It would help to defend the perimeter. But, when we don’t have good perimeter defenders to begin with, it’s anyone’s guess how effective our perimeter defense may be in the half assed man to man scheme. At the same time, the man to man would weaken our interior defense. In other words, the emphasis on the perimeter comes at the expense of interior defense with no guarantee of a significant improvement on the perimeter. (Tubby, after losing Nolen in 2009-2010, actually chose to go with a no-frill conventional zone defense, though he threw in man to man here and there, as it would be meaningless to go with ball line defense when there was no reliable man to man perimeter defender.)

This season may be different. If we do have enough good perimeter defenders, ball line defense would be more effective against long balls than it had been in the past two seasons (because the perimeter defenders play it as if they do man to man). If we don't, we will have a similar problem.

However, that does not mean that we should go with man to man with limite help to defend the perimeter a bit better whenever our opponents gets open shots from behind the arc. When we do not have personnel to play man to man effectively, we should go with man to man if and only if 3pt shots become a critical threat (opponents make them at a rate that kills us).

BTW, some may argue that with TM and Ralph, we do not need to double up inside. If we do that, our opponents will make shots inside at a higher % and can more easily attack the bigs with their wings and interior men and get them in foul trouble. There will always be a trade-off. Furthermore, if our perimeter players are not good man to man defenders, it is very possible that we are going to bleed defensively both inside and on the perimeter without improving the perimeter defense in a meaningful way.

If long balls are truly crippling us, then we need to bite the bullet. But, the stats suggest that long balls were not crippling us to that point last season. As far as this season is concerned, we just need to wait and see how things go in order to bring up our 3 pt defense in any meaningful way.

Again, I am not suggesting that there may be no problem with our 3 pt defense or that ball line defense/Tubby’s defensive philosophy be beyond criticism.
 

People seem to be forgetting that the ball-line defense had nothing to do with the three point woes last season because for the majority of the time the Gophers played a 2-3 zone, not the ball-line defense. Monday night was the first time the gophers consistently played Tubby's version of man to man in a very long time and some rust was inevitable.
 

People seem to be forgetting that the ball-line defense had nothing to do with the three point woes last season because for the majority of the time the Gophers played a 2-3 zone, not the ball-line defense. Monday night was the first time the gophers consistently played Tubby's version of man to man in a very long time and some rust was inevitable.

So what you are saying is that our commentors here on the GopherHole do not know what they are talking about, just because they watch a game now and then? Wow, are you opening yourself up for pissing contests.
 

This is random, but I just talked to a friend of mine that goes to BSU (he also writes for the Bemidji paper) and he was saying all there team does is chuck up threes, so that could be why they made so many.
 


I think whether its man to man, or 2-3 zone, tubby's philosophy is to double the post. Even in the 2-3 he has the "2's" shade down and reach on the wings. 20 years ago when there were stud post players who weren't leaving early for the NBA, I could see why you would do this.

But I will stick with my first comments that unless that player is Jared Sullinger I would rather us play one on one defense and not help so much on these post players unless they are killing us. You need to recruit players to your system, but you also need to be flexible enough to adjust your system to best fit its current players. Ralph, Trevor, and Rodney together might be the best shotblocking frontcourt in college this year, I don't think they need help from the perimeter defenders.

Since Tubby has been here the gophers have done this so I'm not just talking about last year. Teams like Michigan and Northwestern do well against us as they have no post threat but lots of three point shooters. Of course there are other reasons too.
 

I think whether its man to man, or 2-3 zone, tubby's philosophy is to double the post. Even in the 2-3 he has the "2's" shade down and reach on the wings. 20 years ago when there were stud post players who weren't leaving early for the NBA, I could see why you would do this.

But I will stick with my first comments that unless that player is Jared Sullinger I would rather us play one on one defense and not help so much on these post players unless they are killing us. You need to recruit players to your system, but you also need to be flexible enough to adjust your system to best fit its current players. Ralph, Trevor, and Rodney together might be the best shotblocking frontcourt in college this year, I don't think they need help from the perimeter defenders.

Since Tubby has been here the gophers have done this so I'm not just talking about last year. Teams like Michigan and Northwestern do well against us as they have no post threat but lots of three point shooters. Of course there are other reasons too.

I was not trying to suggest that you be wrong as I believe there is no such thing as the truth in basketball, and there always is a trade-off between two oppositing views and decisions. It is just that when capable coaches do a certain thing or stick to a certain philosophy, there may be a good reason for it. And, I was trying to put forth that point of view.

We do not have to agree with Tubby -- I certainly don't very often. But, we may have to give him at least some benefit of the doubt such that we can ackowledge that his decisions/philosophies have merits on their own.
 

I assume that Tubby, like most coaches in any sport at any level, would rather go down fighting with what he feels he's good at than drastically alter his system to fit his athletes and competition, and thus be coaching something he doesn't know and doesn't feel comfortable with. Of course he will subtly alter his main scheme to suit the strengths and weaknesses of his players, but I feel comfortable in saying that, as long as Tubby Smith is coaching, he will be running the ball-line defense.
 

I assume that Tubby, like most coaches in any sport at any level, would rather go down fighting with what he feels he's good at than drastically alter his system to fit his athletes and competition, and thus be coaching something he doesn't know and doesn't feel comfortable with. Of course he will subtly alter his main scheme to suit the strengths and weaknesses of his players, but I feel comfortable in saying that, as long as Tubby Smith is coaching, he will be running the ball-line defense.

You are probably right. But now it's year five. He's highly paid and he's got his players- all recruited by him. So he's either going to succeed with this system or he's going to get criticized for either being inflexible or recruiting poorly. Personally, not being an expert, it looks like there's enough talent here to compete in the Big 10 and make the tourney. Anything short of that will be failure at this point in my view. I think he'll have a good year.
 



You are probably right. But now it's year five. He's highly paid and he's got his players- all recruited by him. So he's either going to succeed with this system or he's going to get criticized for either being inflexible or recruiting poorly. Personally, not being an expert, it looks like there's enough talent here to compete in the Big 10 and make the tourney. Anything short of that will be failure at this point in my view. I think he'll have a good year.

I agree 100%. At this point, I'm thinking something like 11-7 or 12-6 in the Big Ten and a seed somewhere between 6 and 9 in the tournament. I'll be disappointed in anything less.
 

How about for $10 (I'm good for it if I lose)? You win if the Gophers finish 9th-12th, I win if they finish 5th or better.

For clarity's sake, should we go with the Gophers' B1G Tournament seed? Or does a tie for 5th/8th = 5/8 no matter the seed? I'll let you make the call.

OK, it's a deal - let's use the conference tourney seed. I hope to be paying you.
 

I agree 100%. At this point, I'm thinking something like 11-7 or 12-6 in the Big Ten and a seed somewhere between 6 and 9 in the tournament. I'll be disappointed in anything less.

Not a rip - why do you think Mn will win 11 or 12 games this year? The team does not seem too talented? Is the rest of the B10 down? I am not sure how the other teams are. I know OSU and MSU should be strong...
 




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