Gophers Ranked #126 out of 130 on Experience Chart

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You know this isn't true.

It's absolutely true for a certain subset of posters.

There's nothing wrong with defending him in general.

Correct

It's the passionate defenses against anything negative that anyone says, even defending outright lies like the number of seniors on scholarship.

There are multiple ways of looking at things. When publications or people are breaking down our roster heading into the season, they mostly look at the 11 players that play at one time on offense and defense. The same group of players who are on the field ~90% of the time. Of that group, we only have 9 scholarship seniors.

It's ok for people to say negative things

Correct

P.J. doesn't need you to protect him like you're his boyfriend.

Really mature comment. Did you revert back to your 10 year old self?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

There are multiple ways of looking at things. When publications or people are breaking down our roster heading into the season, they mostly look at the 11 players that play at one time on offense and defense. The same group of players who are on the field ~90% of the time. Of that group, we only have 9 scholarship seniors.

Thats shading the truth. Why not just say 11? He miss-stated the number of juniors as well which probably doesn’t include any scholarship kicking unit players. I don’t get it - but I don’t understand why people do all sorts of things.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Because he’s the coach of a team I follow? I can’t unsee the Sunday interviews or the press conferences and I see no reason to allow it to pass. The sad part is the gaffes are usually totally unnecessary and self-inflicted.

It's all coach speak. I take all coach interviews and press conferences with a grain of salt. I imagine if you broke down every coach in America (college and NFL), you'd probably find a bunch of inaccuracies in the things they say. I don't understand why some get so bent out of shape about these things.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It's all coach speak. I take all coach interviews and press conferences with a grain of salt. I imagine if you broke down every coach in America (college and NFL), you'd probably find a bunch of inaccuracies in the things they say. I don't understand why some get so bent out of shape about these things.

It’s the gestalt of the person. I have actually thought about this and yes, he does rub me the wrong way part of the time. At other times I’m inspired - the tv series was well done, for example. He gives good pep talks.

OTOH I’m still not over the end of the Purdue game. That was one of the more bizarre coaching moves I’ve seen, putting Durr out there (and not to be seen the rest of the year). Maybe a perception he wasn’t pulling out all the stops to win which is a big faux pas in my world. Overall the guy hasn’t proven much to me yet except we’ve moved up a tier in recruiting. It’s probably a personality clash.

 

[50PoundHead]

I'm with Gopher in Iowa. Coaches at all levels fabricate.

My only gripe here is that the same folks who praised Kill for coming in and ripping everything and everyone (and contending that Eric Klein's magic conditioning program would turn the entire team into an update version of the Monsters of the Midway) are coming down hard on Fleck for basically saying the same things. If anything, Fleck has been more measured than Kill. There's a clear difference in styles, but the message seems to be the same.

 

[BarnBurner]

It's absolutely true for a certain subset of posters.



Correct



There are multiple ways of looking at things. When publications or people are breaking down our roster heading into the season, they mostly look at the 11 players that play at one time on offense and defense. The same group of players who are on the field ~90% of the time. Of that group, we only have 9 scholarship seniors.



Correct



Really mature comment. Did you revert back to your 10 year old self?

As I mentioned in another thread regarding this same comment from you and regarding kickers - we will see the impact of the kicking game at some point this year, wins or losses. And then make your snarky comment.

 

[John Galt]

I'm with Gopher in Iowa. Coaches at all levels fabricate.

My only gripe here is that the same folks who praised Kill for coming in and ripping everything and everyone (and contending that Eric Klein's magic conditioning program would turn the entire team into an update version of the Monsters of the Midway) are coming down hard on Fleck for basically saying the same things. If anything, Fleck has been more measured than Kill. There's a clear difference in styles, but the message seems to be the same.

Remember when Kill started and made players wear brown "Minnesota loafer" jerseys? Can you imagine the backlash if Fleck did something like that?

 

[GopherHomer]

It’s the gestalt of the person. I have actually thought about this and yes, he does rub me the wrong way part of the time. At other times I’m inspired - the tv series was well done, for example. He gives good pep talks.

OTOH I’m still not over the end of the Purdue game. That was one of the more bizarre coaching moves I’ve seen, putting Durr out there (and not to be seen the rest of the year). Maybe a perception he wasn’t pulling out all the stops to win which is a big faux pas in my world. Overall the guy hasn’t proven much to me yet except we’ve moved up a tier in recruiting. It’s probably a personality clash.

This is something I have been thinking about lately. I'm a big fan of Fleck and his personality, but I have a question for those like you that don't share my view (your opinion is perfectly valid...this is not a hit-piece).

In a different universe, after firing Brewster, if Maturi would have taken a huge risk on an unproven coach name PJ Fleck would his personality be more universally accepted (assuming he had some success)? Would it have seemed to be more authentic, if we hadn't already seen it before at WMU? Would the idea of "culture change" been easier to swallow coming off Brewster as opposed to Kill/Claeys (which was a MUCH more stable program - even though there were some cracks in recruiting starting to show)?

Anyways, just something I have been wondering about, and I didn't feel it warranted a new thread.

(disclaimer: I realize there is no way in hell that Maturi would have followed up Brewster with Fleck)

 

[dpodoll68]

It's absolutely true for a certain subset of posters.

It's absolutely not. I have defended Fleck plenty here, along with many other posters. I've never been called a Fleckophile or a Fleckster or anything similar - why do you suppose that is?

When publications or people are breaking down our roster heading into the season, they mostly look at the 11 players that play at one time on offense and defense. The same group of players who are on the field ~90% of the time. Of that group, we only have 9 scholarship seniors.

You're qualifying the statement. When you limit the set, you can say "9 scholarship seniors" if you want. P.J. didn't do that. Saying "9 scholarship seniors" without any additional context is an undeniably and provably false statement. P.J. lies, and people should hold him accountable when he lies. Again, you don't need to twist yourself into knots to defend his honor.

Really mature comment. Did you revert back to your 10 year old self?

"Maturity" has nothing to do with it. You, johnnyboy, Face the Facts, probably others I'm missing - the closest analogy I can think of is a boyfriend protecting his girlfriend from all of her "haters".

 

[short ornery norwegian]

This is something I have been thinking about lately. I'm a big fan of Fleck and his personality, but I have a question for those like you that don't share my view (your opinion is perfectly valid...this is not a hit-piece).

In a different universe, after firing Brewster, if Maturi would have taken a huge risk on an unproven coach name PJ Fleck would his personality be more universally accepted (assuming he had some success)? Would it have seemed to be more authentic, if we hadn't already seen it before at WMU? Would the idea of "culture change" been easier to swallow coming off Brewster as opposed to Kill/Claeys (which was a MUCH more stable program - even though there were some cracks in recruiting starting to show)?

Anyways, just something I have been wondering about, and I didn't feel it warranted a new thread.

(disclaimer: I realize there is no way in hell that Maturi would have followed up Brewster with Fleck)

Well, I'm on record as not liking Fleck's personality. So, from my point of view, an unknown coach who came on as (in my view) over-the-top would be even worse than a coach who had some success (albeit at a lower level of competition.) So, if I think Fleck is a bit of an a**-Clown now, I suspect that an unknown coach displaying the same personality would seem like an even bigger a**-clown.

 

[scools12]

It's absolutely not. I have defended Fleck plenty here, along with many other posters. I've never been called a Fleckophile or a Fleckster or anything similar - why do you suppose that is?



You're qualifying the statement. When you limit the set, you can say "9 scholarship seniors" if you want. P.J. didn't do that. Saying "9 scholarship seniors" without any additional context is an undeniably and provably false statement. P.J. lies, and people should hold him accountable when he lies. Again, you don't need to twist yourself into knots to defend his honor.



"Maturity" has nothing to do with it. You, johnnyboy, Face the Facts, probably others I'm missing - the closest analogy I can think of is a boyfriend protecting his girlfriend from all of her "haters".

Still don’t get why people are bent out of shape over what a coach says. This scholarship debate has been going on for weeks.

There might plenty of stuff to rip Fleck on and will be plenty more during the season but coach speak isn’t one of them.


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[GopherHomer]

Well, I'm on record as not liking Fleck's personality. So, from my point of view, an unknown coach who came on as (in my view) over-the-top would be even worse than a coach who had some success (albeit at a lower level of competition.) So, if I think Fleck is a bit of an a**-Clown now, I suspect that an unknown coach displaying the same personality would seem like an even bigger a**-clown.

Fair enough. I brought up the topic because even within my devotion to the "Fleck Way" I still am a little bitter than we have publicly seen it before, but I understand your POV. It is interesting that his personality is such a lightning rod...like it or not, I think he is ahead of the curve and in 20 years pretty much every college football coach will have a similar "brand" or be labeled out-dated.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Remember when Kill started and made players wear brown "Minnesota loafer" jerseys? Can you imagine the backlash if Fleck did something like that?

I don’t recall anyone complaining too much about that. PJ certainly has called out players publicly for unstated reasons, eg DC11

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Fair enough. I brought up the topic because even within my devotion to the "Fleck Way" I still am a little bitter than we have publicly seen it before, but I understand your POV. It is interesting that his personality is such a lightning rod...like it or not, I think he is ahead of the curve and in 20 years pretty much every college football coach will have a similar "brand" or be labeled out-dated.

Every HC does have a “brand”. I’m not following you here.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

It is interesting that his personality is such a lightning rod...

I think it is a mix of Midwestern / Scandinavian distaste for people doing anything too flashy or tooting your own horn too much.... gotta keep everything bottled up.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I think it is a mix of Midwestern / Scandinavian distaste for people doing anything too flashy or tooting your own horn too much.... gotta keep everything bottled up.

More stereotypes. How do you feel about pizza?

 

[Word]

I just like for people to wait to toot their own horn until they've actually done something.

I think it is a mix of Midwestern / Scandinavian distaste for people doing anything too flashy or tooting your own horn too much.... gotta keep everything bottled up.

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[Hockeytown]

Sure - the expectation should be for at least 6-7 wins and a bowl game this year. Anything less would be disappointing.

In 2019, I'd expect at least 8-9 wins. Overall, PJ will be need to win more than the last staff to have a successful tenure at the U.

I have softened my opinion on Fleck's tenure. I now think this MAC coach will need to show improve by yr 3 or he is gone. The last MAC coach used up all the patience chits. After that it will be 'we need to hire someone who has coached in the P5.'

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I just like for people to wait to toot their own horn until they've actually done something.



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If you win a football game or built a program.... you were doing something before that.

 

[dpodoll68]

Still don’t get why people are bent out of shape over what a coach says. This scholarship debate has been going on for weeks.

There might plenty of stuff to rip Fleck on and will be plenty more during the season but coach speak isn’t one of them.

There's a tremendous difference between coachspeak and lying. Platitudes like "we're young" or "coach them up" are annoying but harmless. Blatant falsehoods like "took a pay cut to come here" or "nine scholarship seniors" are not only unnecessary self-inflicted wounds that make him look foolish and amateur, they also erode trust.

 

[Dano564]

There's a tremendous difference between coachspeak and lying. Platitudes like "we're young" or "coach them up" are annoying but harmless. Blatant falsehoods like "took a pay cut to come here" or "nine scholarship seniors" are not only unnecessary self-inflicted wounds that make him look foolish and amateur, they also erode trust.

The more false they get, the more that trust can erode.
Most of what he said isn't enough to offend me yet, but I'm not a precious snowflake either.
(well, at least not when it comes to things coaches say).

 

[Pompous Elitist]

This is something I have been thinking about lately. I'm a big fan of Fleck and his personality, but I have a question for those like you that don't share my view (your opinion is perfectly valid...this is not a hit-piece).

In a different universe, after firing Brewster, if Maturi would have taken a huge risk on an unproven coach name PJ Fleck would his personality be more universally accepted (assuming he had some success)? Would it have seemed to be more authentic, if we hadn't already seen it before at WMU? Would the idea of "culture change" been easier to swallow coming off Brewster as opposed to Kill/Claeys (which was a MUCH more stable program - even though there were some cracks in recruiting starting to show)?

Anyways, just something I have been wondering about, and I didn't feel it warranted a new thread.

(disclaimer: I realize there is no way in hell that Maturi would have followed up Brewster with Fleck)

Just saw this. No, it wouldn’t make a difference. My assessment, which could be wrong, is he has a bit of trouble telling the whole truth. He tends to exaggerate. Is it a fireable offense? No. One of my undergrad roommates was the best bull****ter I’ve ever seen. He was a riveting storyteller and a natural salesman. He also made up about 75% of his stories or shaded the truth. I still liked him and like him to this day. But I don’t trust a damn thing he says.

Add on the Fleckxicon, the geese, the excuses, the weird standing ovations in the team room, the cult-like atmosphere, last season..and my jury is out. I want him to be great, I want the team to be great. I want him to be genuine. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. Maybe his statements are out of context.

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

I think PJ counts down the seconds of each quarter so he can get his sprint on, so freaking annoying and amateur hour at best. That being said, I have softened on the guy. I love positive people but can't stand Rah Rah people just to be Rah Rah. I think I came around a bit on PJ the second Claeys took the job at WSU, weird huh?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

It's absolutely not. I have defended Fleck plenty here, along with many other posters. I've never been called a Fleckophile or a Fleckster or anything similar - why do you suppose that is?

It absolutely is. Probably because you argue mostly over semantics, rather than anything actually related to the team.

You're qualifying the statement. When you limit the set, you can say "9 scholarship seniors" if you want. P.J. didn't do that. Saying "9 scholarship seniors" without any additional context is an undeniably and provably false statement. P.J. lies, and people should hold him accountable when he lies. Again, you don't need to twist yourself into knots to defend his honor.

It's still a fact on offense and defense, the players who play ~95% of the game.

"Maturity" has nothing to do with it. You, johnnyboy, Face the Facts, probably others I'm missing - the closest analogy I can think of is a boyfriend protecting his girlfriend from all of her "haters".

Sure it does. This is false and you sound like a child.

 

[PhillyGopher]

6 pages of agenda driven horse-schit, on both sides of the argument.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

6 pages of agenda driven horse-schit, on both sides of the argument.

What does that even mean?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

What does that even mean?

It means you're all worthless and weak. Now, drop and give me 20.