Gophers Defense (would love some fan input)

Donate To GopherHole
B

badgermaniac

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Points
3
I have a collegiate basketball game that I have dabbled in over the years and I am currently in the rewrite process. Part of that process is updating the card set for the most recently played Big Ten season. Most of the cards are based on objective statistical output, but there is one set of ratings that I need some help with, and that is defensive value. I know there are a number of defensive metrics out there, but all include elements such as steals, rebounds, blocked shots, etc. and those are already accounted for in the game. What I am looking for is how effective a player is at locking down, not getting lost, and forcing opponents to take contested shots. In other words, not including the measurables.

I know it wasn't a great year defensively for the Gophers, and I know what the raw metrics say, but I do think getting the input from those of you who watch with a more critical eye has some value.

For anyone interested, please rank the following players from best to worst.

Garcia
Battle
Cooper
Payne
Ola-Joseph
Henley
Carrington
Samuels
Thompson
Ramberg

Thanks for any input.

As an aside, do fans see a significant improvement this year, or is this a longer term concern about Johnson?
 

badgermaniac said:
I have a collegiate basketball game that I have dabbled in over the years and I am currently in the rewrite process. Part of that process is updating the card set for the most recently played Big Ten season. Most of the cards are based on objective statistical output, but there is one set of ratings that I need some help with, and that is defensive value. I know there are a number of defensive metrics out there, but all include elements such as steals, rebounds, blocked shots, etc. and those are already accounted for in the game. What I am looking for is how effective a player is at locking down, not getting lost, and forcing opponents to take contested shots. In other words, not including the measurables.

I know it wasn't a great year defensively for the Gophers, and I know what the raw metrics say, but I do think getting the input from those of you who watch with a more critical eye has some value.

For anyone interested, please rank the following players from best to worst.

Garcia
Battle
Cooper
Payne
Ola-Joseph
Henley
Carrington
Samuels
Thompson
Ramberg

Thanks for any input.

As an aside, do fans see a significant improvement this year, or is this a longer term concern about Johnson?
Click to expand...
Battle will not hurt us defensively as much this year.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
note to Dakota - he said the most recently completed B1G season - which would be last season.

OK - best to worst defensively:

Garcia
Payne
Ola-Joseph
Battle
Carrington
Henley
Samuels
Ramberg
Thompson
a student manager
Cooper
Click to expand...
Note to Shorty: So you think he is gathering information on how Battle will perform this year at OSU? Good to know.

Or maybe his little fake game is not too good.
 

Dakota2 said:
Note to Shorty: So you think he is gathering information on how Battle will perform this year at OSU? Good to know.

Or maybe his little fake game is not too good.
Click to expand...

I did mean last year. While gathering info, I watched Holtmann's pre-season presser and he stated flat out that Battle needed to play better defense than he did last year.
 
Last edited:


Dakota2 said:
Note to Shorty: So you think he is gathering information on how Battle will perform this year at OSU? Good to know.

Or maybe his little fake game is not too good.
Click to expand...

don't know about his game. all i know is that he asked for input and I tried to provide it.

you seem upset about this. I don't understand why.

life's too short. whenever possible, I try to be a decent person.

your choices are your responsibility.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
note to Dakota - he said the most recently completed B1G season - which would be last season.

OK - best to worst defensively:

Garcia
Payne
Ola-Joseph
Battle
Carrington
Henley
Samuels
Ramberg
Thompson
a student manager
Cooper
Click to expand...
Garcia is an average defender. Henley and Carrington were our best last year- that's how bad we were on defense.
 

Like BGA1 said...we have no standout defenders. For any defense to be good you need 5 guys working together. The Gophers have very little evidence of team defense. Individually Ola Joseph plays with the most fearlessness, hardest worker. Probably the strongest player next to Payne. But on defense we play like 5 h.s guys from bad teams who just met in the park.

On offense we play way to slow and without a purpose. I'm sure we are thinking about what we are supposed to do but that's the problem we are thinking too much. We have only had 16 weeks to install our offense....give it some time. And it was like a skeleton drill...no defensive resistance from the opponent.

The second half after we said screw it, lets just play...and we ran the floor and got some easy baskets but it was not an emphasis from the coaches. We need to play faster. It would help our defense too.
 




The challenge for Minnesota IMO are the two aspects that most directly correspond to coaching and/or program identity, and that is team defense and turnovers. You can see flashes from this player or that player, but if you don't play good team defense in the B10 and value the ball, you are going to lose games.

As a Badger fan, I can tell you that this has been the defining aspect of the program the last 25 years and is the simple reason they win games. By contrast, the UW women are the exact opposite and the reason why they have arguably been the worst program in the B10 over the last 15 years.

If I were a Gopher fan, I would need to see growth in these two areas or begin to question Johnson long term.
 

badgermaniac said:
The challenge for Minnesota IMO are the two aspects that most directly correspond to coaching and/or program identity, and that is team defense and turnovers. You can see flashes from this player or that player, but if you don't play good team defense in the B10 and value the ball, you are going to lose games.

As a Badger fan, I can tell you that this has been the defining aspect of the program the last 25 years and is the simple reason they win games. By contrast, the UW women are the exact opposite and the reason why they have arguably been the worst program in the B10 over the last 15 years.

If I were a Gopher fan, I would need to see growth in these two areas or begin to question Johnson long term.
Click to expand...
And if I were a badger fan, I wouldn’t be on here bothering us
 

Yeah, heaven forbid someone is having a conversation about a team that you follow...what misery.

Would still love to get some more input on individual Minnesota defenders.
 

badgermaniac said:
Yeah, heaven forbid someone is having a conversation about a team that you follow...what misery.

Would still love to get some more input on individual Minnesota defenders.
Click to expand...

For last year this is how I would rate them:

Payne
Henley

Put the rest of the names in a shaker bottle because there's not much difference between any of them.

JOJ
Battle
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
For last year this is how I would rate them:

Payne
Henley

Put the rest of the names in a shaker bottle because there's not much difference between any of them.

JOJ
Battle
Click to expand...
Interesting that you left Carrington out of the top group, as his rep seems pretty good relative to a lot of the guys (as you noted).
 

badgermaniac said:
Interesting that you left Carrington out of the top group, as his rep seems pretty good relative to a lot of the guys (as you noted).
Click to expand...

He was awful on D the first 3/4 of last season but injuries didn't help. So it's hard to tell. I didn't see last nights game but it didn't sound like he was too good to start this season either.
 

As a team, if we apply the Davison 5-knuckle press, our defensive stats should improve.
 

I didn't think we had any standouts on defense last year. If I had to rank them, I would maybe go with Payne, and Carrington and Garcia after. At the other end, I thought Thompson really struggled. Cooper also had guys blow past him on the dribble a lot, but did use his length to contest shots from behind on occasion. I thought Samuels did a better job of trying to stay in front of players, but lacked the height or hops to contest much.
 

It's really hard to rate some of our guys because they were played so out of position. For example, I think Olo-Joseph is a decent defender at the 4 but struggled at the 3.

Payne - C+
Henley - C+ (really good on ball, struggled off ball)
Garcia - C
Carrington - C
Ola-Joseph - C-
Ramberg - C-
Thompson - D
Battle - D
Samuels - D-
Cooper - D-


I expect Ihnen will be about a C+/B-. If used properly, will be our best defensive player.
 

I don’t know how to judge individual defense, really, but I do know that Payne had trouble with fouls (as bigs sometimes do, especially true frosh). I would say he had the most potential if he could stay off the bench.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom