Gophers-Colorado St scrimmage

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Pitchfork nation is alive and well in Minnesota. I’ll leave my pitchfork in the barn until they at least play a half season of games that count.
 

Bobek said:
Pitchfork nation is alive and well in Minnesota. I’ll leave my pitchfork in the barn until they at least play a half season of games that count.
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Did the last two years not count? The pitchforks started to get pulled out after we had back-to-back historically bad seasons by a coach without the kind of resume you'd expect from a Big 10 coach. The pitch forks didn't get pulled out from this scrimmage but people should not just ignore the information - especially when it aligns with everything we've seen for the last three years.

The U's fans are the most patient fans that I've ever seen in all of college sports and it's not even close. If you don't have your pitchfork out at this point, you're not being patient, you're blind.
 

CentralGopher said:
Oh, so this is just a matter of them learning to play together and be comfortable with each other then. So we should start to see things come together some time around the BTT. /s 🤪
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Look, I admit that I am rooting for the Gophers and Ben Johnson to have a good season. So if you want to say I'm looking for a best-case scenario, so be it.

But - in real-world terms - of the top 10 or 11 players on the roster, 4 saw game action with the Gophers last season - Garcia, Payne, Ola-Joseph and Carrington. Carrington was limited by injuries at times. Betts practiced with the team but did not play in games.

for the rest of the roster: Hawkins, Mitchell and Wilson are transfers. Fox and Ihnen are coming off injuries. Christie is a true FR.

even the most optimistic fan (I think) would agree that it will take at least some time for the team to figure things out. the players need to learn to work with each other in game situations. the coaches have to figure out rotations.

so I'm not going to panic because the team played poorly in a scrimmage. Now, if they're still playing poorly a month from now, that will be a very different story. But I'm not going to throw in the towel before the season has even started.
 

Goldy-Wan Kenobi said:
Anyone want to take bets on if this thread is still going in March? Gonna be the 23/24 version of the “Ben Johnson is a Disaster” thread…
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There wont be enough posters left by March.
 




EG#9 said:
A few thoughts on different topics brought up in reading this thread. I find it incredibly strange that the Gophers reportedly lost this scrimmage 87-49 and (to my knowledge) none of the most prominent Gopher basketball media members wrote an article on it or even put the score up on their social media. Nothing from Ryan James, Marcus Fuller, or Andy Greder that I've seen.

As for the idea that it doesn't matter or it's not a big deal. I could buy that in a lot of instances, but never in the instance of getting run out of the gym by a team expected to be average in its mid major conference...especially when that team beat Minnesota in a scrimmage last year. So we're supposed to believe Minnesota took the time to fly out to Colorado Springs to scrimmage against an opponent (one that will be better than all but 1-2 teams in their non-conference schedule) with the attitude of "who really cares"? Ben talked about "culture" a lot, what type of "culture" is fine with losing 87-49 in any scenario? Also the score itself is especially problematic as it shows issues on both the offensive (have to score more than 49) and defensive (can't give up 87) ends of the floor. Obviously the game doesn't count, but last year this team was absolutely terrible on both ends of the floor and the (reported) score of this game would lead people to the same conclusion about this years squad.

Back to hiring of Ben Johnson, it's still a complete mystery how it happened. The circumstantial evidence pointing to it being the "administration" begins with Johnson not fitting the profile of any coach Coyle had hired for a premier sport at the University of Minnesota. The comparisions to Whalen are unfounded. A similar hire to Whalen would be like Sam Jacobson or John Thomas if they had won a couple gold medals in the Olympics, made multiple all star teams and won a couple championships for the Timberwolves. Look who was hired post Johnson: Coyle poached a successful volleyball coach from Wazzu and a successful basketball coach from WVU. Prior to Johnson he hired Motzko and Fleck. None of these hires were anything like a guy who tried and failed to get the Northern Illinois job two weeks before he got hired at Minnesota. IF (again if) Coyle was forced in to hiring Johnson, was he also forced to pay him ~2 million a season for optics? What about the absolutely Maturi-like egregiously bad extension Ben was given after finishing last in his first season? Was that forced on him too? I feel like we will never know the answers as hard questions were not asked by the media at the time of Johnson's hiring.
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Good analysis.

I was genuine in my remarks in this thread asking for evidence. I do believe Coyle was railroaded into a bad hire, but that's not based on anything other than the tea leaves. Call me naive, but this is a public institution, so it should be more transparent about how decisions are made. One way or another--even if Coyle were pressured into this--it's still on him. He fucked up.

I'm glad to see that people are bothered by this reported scrimmage score. It shows me that people still care. The people here who are preaching a gospel of apathy and that we're not supposed to be bothered by this: fuck you.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look, I admit that I am rooting for the Gophers and Ben Johnson to have a good season. So if you want to say I'm looking for a best-case scenario, so be it.

But - in real-world terms - of the top 10 or 11 players on the roster, 4 saw game action with the Gophers last season - Garcia, Payne, Ola-Joseph and Carrington. Carrington was limited by injuries at times. Betts practiced with the team but did not play in games.

for the rest of the roster: Hawkins, Mitchell and Wilson are transfers. Fox and Ihnen are coming off injuries. Christie is a true FR.

even the most optimistic fan (I think) would agree that it will take at least some time for the team to figure things out. the players need to learn to work with each other in game situations. the coaches have to figure out rotations.

so I'm not going to panic because the team played poorly in a scrimmage. Now, if they're still playing poorly a month from now, that will be a very different story. But I'm not going to throw in the towel before the season has even started.
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CSU lost it's 2nd and 4th leading scorers. They only return 5 contributors. They have 8 new players on their roster. Maybe when they finally gel, they will beat us by 50+. Any other excuses you would like to throw out there?
 

Big Dawg said:
CSU lost it's 2nd and 4th leading scorers. They only return 5 contributors. They have 8 new players on their roster. Maybe when they finally gel, they will beat us by 50+. Any other excuses you would like to throw out there?
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So tell us Big Dawg, why are you so down on the Gophers? Other than the reported outcome of the scrimmage. And only two BIG W's last season.
 



Bad Gopher said:
Good analysis.

I was genuine in my remarks in this thread asking for evidence. I do believe Coyle was railroaded into a bad hire, but that's not based on anything other than the tea leaves. Call me naive, but this is a public institution, so it should be more transparent about how decisions are made. One way or another--even if Coyle were pressured into this--it's still on him. He fucked up.

I'm glad to see that people are bothered by this reported scrimmage score. It shows me that people still care. The people here who are preaching a gospel of apathy and that we're not supposed to be bothered by this: fuck you.
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Name checks out. Seriously, I love reading your posts and I am certain you are a lights out project manager.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
So tell us Big Dawg, why are you so down on the Gophers? Other than the reported outcome of the scrimmage. And only two BIG W's last season.
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Why do you assume I'm down on the Gophers? I love the Gophers. Coyle needs to be fired for the worst hire in the history of P6 basketball. If he had no choice, he should have resigned in protest. I DO HOPE the Gophers gel and have a magical season. Heck, not playing on weakling Wednesday would be enough for me this season. Doubt that I will get my wish.
 

FWIW - Rick Pitino, father of former Gopher coach Rich Pitino - is now the head coach at St. John's. (the one in New York, not the one in Collegeville).

St. John's played an exhibition against D2 Pace University- and lost. The New York Post called it a "dismal" loss.

after the game, here's what Pitino had to say:

“Nobody likes to lose, but exhibition games are exhibition games. I really was excited for Pace and the way they played every phase of the game to beat us. It wasn’t our injuries that lost the game, it was Pace’s great play. I’m really happy they won and I’m glad we did not come back against them because they deserved this victory and we did not. A much smaller team dominated us on the backboard and that can’t be. If I asked for anything for a Christmas present, it was this loss. … We learned a lot about what we need to work on tonight and that’s what exhibition games are for.”

But what does he know....
 

Bad Gopher said:
Good analysis.

I was genuine in my remarks in this thread asking for evidence. I do believe Coyle was railroaded into a bad hire, but that's not based on anything other than the tea leaves. Call me naive, but this is a public institution, so it should be more transparent about how decisions are made. One way or another--even if Coyle were pressured into this--it's still on him. He fucked up.

I'm glad to see that people are bothered by this reported scrimmage score. It shows me that people still care. The people here who are preaching a gospel of apathy and that we're not supposed to be bothered by this: fuck you.
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I wasn't too concerned initially.

I think I assumed (bad idea, I know) it was Ben experimenting with line-ups and playing guys who won't see the floor much but trying to figure out his #7-#11 rotation guys.

I mentioned in a previous post that it's damn near impossible to lose by 40 points. I was sure there were some extenuating circumstances at play.

Then I saw Marcus's write-up that confirmed a lopsided loss but highlighted players like Fox, Ihnen, Hawkins, and Mitchell as "feeling good" and "getting what they needed out of it."

What!? What could feel good about losing by 40? What exactly did you learn?

IIRC, in Ben's first year, we got whooped in the secret scrimmage, and the commentary from the players was more like, "We have a lot to work on if we want to win games in the Big 10."

Getting your a** kicked is one thing, but to be okay with it? And to chalk it up as part of the process? Like our pathetic schedule, it is more confirmation of a losing mentality.

Even though we play a DIII team this week, I imagine it will shed much light on how the season will unfold. I'm anxious to see it with my own eyeballs.

I don't even care if shots aren't falling. I want to see the intensity, defensive effort, and toughness dictating the outcome against an inferior opponent. Last year, we looked awful against our exhibition opponent and Quad 4 preseason opponents, and it set the tone for Big Ten play.
 



Good post Topos.

Yes, lets get the season rolling and see how the boys look. I too want to see much a better defensive effort and initiatve and urgency in getting the offense started. Improvements in all aspect of the game, boxing out, steals, and seeing how the experience last year and working on individual weakness's has turned into improvements and hopefully strengths. One of my biggest concerns is how well the new guards can take care of the ball. Of course we are all anxious to see the newbies and a finally get a peek at Fox and Ihnen.

I am one of a few here who is expecting an upside from the previous BJ's team.
 

topos said:
I wasn't too concerned initially.

I think I assumed (bad idea, I know) it was Ben experimenting with line-ups and playing guys who won't see the floor much but trying to figure out his #7-#11 rotation guys.

I mentioned in a previous post that it's damn near impossible to lose by 40 points. I was sure there were some extenuating circumstances at play.

Then I saw Marcus's write-up that confirmed a lopsided loss but highlighted players like Fox, Ihnen, Hawkins, and Mitchell as "feeling good" and "getting what they needed out of it."

What!? What could feel good about losing by 40? What exactly did you learn?

IIRC, in Ben's first year, we got whooped in the secret scrimmage, and the commentary from the players was more like, "We have a lot to work on if we want to win games in the Big 10."

Getting your a** kicked is one thing, but to be okay with it? And to chalk it up as part of the process? Like our pathetic schedule, it is more confirmation of a losing mentality.

Even though we play a DIII team this week, I imagine it will shed much light on how the season will unfold. I'm anxious to see it with my own eyeballs.

I don't even care if shots aren't falling. I want to see the intensity, defensive effort, and toughness dictating the outcome against an inferior opponent. Last year, we looked awful against our exhibition opponent and Quad 4 preseason opponents, and it set the tone for Big Ten play.
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You're reading waaaaaaay too much into it.
 



topos said:
I wasn't too concerned initially.

I think I assumed (bad idea, I know) it was Ben experimenting with line-ups and playing guys who won't see the floor much but trying to figure out his #7-#11 rotation guys.

I mentioned in a previous post that it's damn near impossible to lose by 40 points. I was sure there were some extenuating circumstances at play.

Then I saw Marcus's write-up that confirmed a lopsided loss but highlighted players like Fox, Ihnen, Hawkins, and Mitchell as "feeling good" and "getting what they needed out of it."

What!? What could feel good about losing by 40? What exactly did you learn?

IIRC, in Ben's first year, we got whooped in the secret scrimmage, and the commentary from the players was more like, "We have a lot to work on if we want to win games in the Big 10."

Getting your a** kicked is one thing, but to be okay with it? And to chalk it up as part of the process? Like our pathetic schedule, it is more confirmation of a losing mentality.

Even though we play a DIII team this week, I imagine it will shed much light on how the season will unfold. I'm anxious to see it with my own eyeballs.

I don't even care if shots aren't falling. I want to see the intensity, defensive effort, and toughness dictating the outcome against an inferior opponent. Last year, we looked awful against our exhibition opponent and Quad 4 preseason opponents, and it set the tone for Big Ten play.
Click to expand...
Last year's exhibition was a harbinger of things to come. I remember folks saying to not judge the team's prospects by how they looked against St. Olaf, but it did turn out to be an accurate predictor.
 

Bobek said:
Pitchfork nation is alive and well in Minnesota. I’ll leave my pitchfork in the barn until they at least play a half season of games that count.
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Sunshine blowers have their place, too, I suppose. Do you really think it’s unreasonable to be skeptical, though? I’m not talking just about a scrimmage (though that doesn’t help your cause).

It’ll be interesting to see if people fall for the gaudy record they’re likely to have pre-January as evidence of improvement.
 

topos said:
I wasn't too concerned initially.

I think I assumed (bad idea, I know) it was Ben experimenting with line-ups and playing guys who won't see the floor much but trying to figure out his #7-#11 rotation guys.

I mentioned in a previous post that it's damn near impossible to lose by 40 points. I was sure there were some extenuating circumstances at play.

Then I saw Marcus's write-up that confirmed a lopsided loss but highlighted players like Fox, Ihnen, Hawkins, and Mitchell as "feeling good" and "getting what they needed out of it."

What!? What could feel good about losing by 40? What exactly did you learn?

IIRC, in Ben's first year, we got whooped in the secret scrimmage, and the commentary from the players was more like, "We have a lot to work on if we want to win games in the Big 10."

Getting your a** kicked is one thing, but to be okay with it? And to chalk it up as part of the process? Like our pathetic schedule, it is more confirmation of a losing mentality.

Even though we play a DIII team this week, I imagine it will shed much light on how the season will unfold. I'm anxious to see it with my own eyeballs.

I don't even care if shots aren't falling. I want to see the intensity, defensive effort, and toughness dictating the outcome against an inferior opponent. Last year, we looked awful against our exhibition opponent and Quad 4 preseason opponents, and it set the tone for Big Ten play.
Click to expand...
I thought I read it was 3 halves, with. 1st 2nd and 3rd team. With 2nd and 3rd getting significant action.

So, I guess like your assumption that alleviated a bit of worry for me. Defense is fine if they’re onky giving up 58 per game. Offense was still suspect.

Then, the same tweet says slow start. So I figured/hoped that oncw the 1st team clicked, they brought in the next team…. Etc.

I’m definitely the type to frame it overly positive. I’m still hoping the first team was pulled from play and once they heated up, and never had a chance to capitalize on said trend. 49 points is concerning over three halves. Anyway one slices it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look, I admit that I am rooting for the Gophers and Ben Johnson to have a good season. So if you want to say I'm looking for a best-case scenario, so be it.

But - in real-world terms - of the top 10 or 11 players on the roster, 4 saw game action with the Gophers last season - Garcia, Payne, Ola-Joseph and Carrington. Carrington was limited by injuries at times. Betts practiced with the team but did not play in games.

for the rest of the roster: Hawkins, Mitchell and Wilson are transfers. Fox and Ihnen are coming off injuries. Christie is a true FR.

even the most optimistic fan (I think) would agree that it will take at least some time for the team to figure things out. the players need to learn to work with each other in game situations. the coaches have to figure out rotations.

so I'm not going to panic because the team played poorly in a scrimmage. Now, if they're still playing poorly a month from now, that will be a very different story. But I'm not going to throw in the towel before the season has even started.
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I’m not panicking but I think even the posters with the most maroon glasses would have to admit the safe money isn’t on this team suddenly being much better than they’ve been the last couple of years. The scrimmage only reinforces that.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Did the last two years not count? The pitchforks started to get pulled out after we had back-to-back historically bad seasons by a coach without the kind of resume you'd expect from a Big 10 coach. The pitch forks didn't get pulled out from this scrimmage but people should not just ignore the information - especially when it aligns with everything we've seen for the last three years.

The U's fans are the most patient fans that I've ever seen in all of college sports and it's not even close. If you don't have your pitchfork out at this point, you're not being patient, you're blind.
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Bob_Loblaw said:
No, I am informed, not blind. Johnson was dealt two bad hands his first two years. He had a complete roster makeover the first year, hardly the prescription for success. And last year two of his front court players, who would have played significant roles, were injured before the season started, leaving a depleted front court. So far no injuries and a full roster should be available this year, leaving no excuses. Let‘s see how this year goes. I think there will be significant progress, but if there isn’t then I’ll join you out there with pitchfork nation.
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
For those of you unfamiliar with Pace University, the Pacesetters are a D II school located in NYC, so I wonder if the Red Storm fans have thrown in the towel yet.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Pace Setters - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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The Red Storm’s head coach has just a tad more pedigree than our guy. 😉
 





St. John’s fans - we have a HOF coach in his first year with the program and a huge turnover in personnel. Losing a tight game to Pace in an exhibition? Not ideal, but at least it’s just an exhibition game. Hopefully they learned something.

Louisville fans - we were worse than f’ing Minnesota last year and now we lose to Ky Wes? Major red flag, even in an exhibition

Minnesota fans - despite back to back last place finishes and now a 40-point loss to a mid-pack MWC team in an exhibition a scrimmage, I somehow am not bothered.
 
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