Gophers Basketball 2023 Off-Season To-Do List

UpAndUnder43

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My point is why hire the person in the first place since they were unqualified and then to cover the original bad decision, hire another person to "help". Oh, and who allowed an unqualified head coach to demand an $ 8mm buyout along with an extra year on the original contract after winning 4 bt10 games. Answer: Coyle. Coyle's high-profile coaching hires record is 1-1-2. Hockey (win), football (push/tie) and BB (2 losses).

If you dont have PJ Fleck in the "win" column as a coaching hire--you'll never ever be happy as a gopher fan. He's elevated the program to a spot it hasn't been in 60+ years. You're also not factoring in all of Coyle's head coaching moves which is fine.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I'll repeat it as many times as I need to: give me a name of who you have coming in that's better than him. Then I'll be fine waving him bon voyage. Subtraction is subtraction if there's no corresponding addition. Again, give me a name.

Or let me put it this way: if there were a Treyton Thompson on some other program's roster--a former 4-star recruit from Minnesota who's been languishing on some high-major bench--we'd be all over that as someone who could maybe find themselves here with all the playing time people are talking about in this thread.
I think at this point any one who is 6'10" plus is better than Thompson in the way the current Gopher Staff utilize him...

thompson 11.JPG
-he's a big who floats around the perimeter and shoots 12% on Treys (3/25 on the year)
-he continually gets bullied in the paint due to frail frame (he should be guarding PFs / slower SFs and trying to use his length and not bully centers)
-he has almost as many turnovers as assists
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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The problem with TT is that he is positionless on a P6 team. Literally where do you plug him in? The 5? No way. 4? Potentially, but we are solid at the 4. Garcia, Ihnen, Fox, Betts, JOJ are all my choice before TT at the 4. 3? I don't think so. I just don't see a scenario where he is a good fit for a BIG team. Can you name a P6 team that has a player with TT's skill set that plays quality (15+per game) minutes? No doubt he is probably a great teammate. I'm sure everyone loves the guy.

They have the same issue on defense with JOJ. He’s a PF in a 2 guards body.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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With the rate our young guys foul people, we will have plenty of playing time to offer. Have to find a way to get 9-10 guys minutes and be able to highly contribute. Part of the reason I'd like to see Cooper stick around.

Ola Joseph
Payne
Henley
Garcia
Cooper/Carrington/Transfer in

Christie
Betts
Fox/Transfer in
Ihnen

We’ve had infinite playing time to offer the last 2 springs and ended up with last place rosters.
 

dbmn

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If you dont have PJ Fleck in the "win" column as a coaching hire--you'll never ever be happy as a gopher fan. He's elevated the program to a spot it hasn't been in 60+ years. You're also not factoring in all of Coyle's head coaching moves which is fine.
OK. A "tie" for FB was a stretch if comparing to previous MN coaches. The B10 record and specifically the records vs IA/WI are disappointing though. I'd suggest the 2 wins against WI are more WI's failure rather than MN successes given WI fired Chryst. If it was MN success, then why lose to IA every year. Fleck's bowl record is his savior and the 7-2 b10 record in 2019. Other than 2019, B10 record is 19-24. Yes, better than previous coaches/years, but we're not close an invite to the Rose Bowl. If we have a chance at the Rose Bowl, we have to beat both WI and IA and then beat the winner of the East, either OSU/PSU/MU/Purdue. And that's not considering UCLA/USC joining the B10. I'd be happy if we had the "success" of the FB team under Fleck for the BB team, even though the success of Fleck I'd consider a marginal success relative to the better teams in the B10.
 


bga1

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We’ve had infinite playing time to offer the last 2 springs and ended up with last place rosters.
That's true. There is such a thing as too much. This is the first year that Ben is going into the portal with an existing roster to sell and pinpoint specific needs with. As bad as it was this year, we have some pieces to work with now.

Payne and Garcia are a nice starting point- they will be one of the best returning front court tandems in the Big Ten. There are a number of complimentary pieces that create a pretty decent nucleus. I can see us becoming a competitive - potential NCAA berth team with a couple good adds at the guard position, good summer development of the young guys and a little luck on the health of Ihnen and Fox.

Ben's going to be the coach next year- like it or not. I'm getting on board with the idea that there might be a future to it.
 

bga1

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They have the same issue on defense with JOJ. He’s a PF in a 2 guards body.
JOJ might make himself into a good 3- there is no way he is 6'7". I would not have thought so early in the year, but his offensive game has grown nicely. He is pretty strong with the ball. He needs to improve a lot on defense.
 

UpAndUnder43

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OK. A "tie" for FB was a stretch if comparing to previous MN coaches. The B10 record and specifically the records vs IA/WI are disappointing though. I'd suggest the 2 wins against WI are more WI's failure rather than MN successes given WI fired Chryst. If it was MN success, then why lose to IA every year. Fleck's bowl record is his savior and the 7-2 b10 record in 2019. Other than 2019, B10 record is 19-24. Yes, better than previous coaches/years, but we're not close an invite to the Rose Bowl. If we have a chance at the Rose Bowl, we have to beat both WI and IA and then beat the winner of the East, either OSU/PSU/MU/Purdue. And that's not considering UCLA/USC joining the B10. I'd be happy if we had the "success" of the FB team under Fleck for the BB team, even though the success of Fleck I'd consider a marginal success relative to the better teams in the B10.
tl;dr you think achieving success like tOSU and Michigan is the only want to be a good hire. If you have those standards for all sports, again, you'll be super sad as Gopher fan.
 

skiumah1

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Ben's going to be the coach next year- like it or not. I'm getting on board with the idea that there might be a future to it.
Yeah he's not going anywhere. Might as well get in the boat.

This team should be good defensively at the very least (Will they is a different question), and have depth. I expect Fox and Ihnen to be serviceable. Betts is interesting to keep an eye on.

Carrington
Henley
Christie
Betts
Ihnen
JOJ
Fox
Garcia
Payne
 



cjbfbp

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Point taken. Kris is always going to be the poster child for addition by subtraction, but I tend to see these situations as exceptions that prove the rule. I don't think Thompson is the kind of cancer that Humphries and his dad were.

I do, though, remember a long-form article and interview with Jerry Tarkanian many years ago. He was honest in that he liked some of his past teams more than others, and some of his teams he downright disliked. I'm sure that was largely personalities and chemistry, but it's a real thing. Some teams mesh better than others.

No, I wasn't thinking about Thompson when I wrote that post. As you imply, "addition by subtraction" typically refers to a team playing better after a substantial player departs. I was thinking more of Battle. He was off this season and, more importantly, I'm not sure he fit well with the dynamics of the team; certainly not like he did with last year's team.

Speaking of Thompson: I'm not sure why the coach didn't give him a few minutes per game over these last couple of weeks. Particularly I thought Johnson should have at least tried him in the Wisconsin game against Crowl because Ola-Joseph was just too small and Crowl simply could shoot over him. I don't know whether Johnson is forcing him out or knows already that he's leaving. I'm not certain we would get a better backup from the portal if we try.
 

bga1

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No, I wasn't thinking about Thompson when I wrote that post. As you imply, "addition by subtraction" typically refers to a team playing better after a substantial player departs. I was thinking more of Battle. He was off this season and, more importantly, I'm not sure he fit well with the dynamics of the team; certainly not like he did with last year's team.

Speaking of Thompson: I'm not sure why the coach didn't give him a few minutes per game over these last couple of weeks. Particularly I thought Johnson should have at least tried him in the Wisconsin game against Crowl because Ola-Joseph was just too small and Crowl simply could shoot over him. I don't know whether Johnson is forcing him out or knows already that he's leaving. I'm not certain we would get a better backup from the portal if we try.
Battle's efficiency - less than a point per shot was brutal this year as were his assists at 47 for a high utilization guy like him. In 60% of the minutes a rookie like Henley, who has a lot of work to do on his game, shot it better (37% on 3s), was more efficient and had 41 assists. I could see Henley stepping into the Battle slot along with JOJ and going a little smaller on the perimeter with Carrington and Christie (good shooters) at the 2G and a lightning fast PG from the portal.....
 

dbmn

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tl;dr you think achieving success like tOSU and Michigan is the only want to be a good hire. If you have those standards for all sports, again, you'll be super sad as Gopher fan.
Not asking for OSU but look at the attendees of the Rose Bowl since 1990. https://www.britannica.com/sports/Rose-Bowl-football-game . Only B10 west team missing is MN. Go back to 1962 and then you'll see MN. Sorry for the diversion to FB in the BB thread. 😂
 





Gopher_In_NYC

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Point taken. Kris is always going to be the poster child for addition by subtraction,
That’s what Kim said
but I tend to see these situations as exceptions that prove the rule. I don't think Thompson is the kind of cancer that Humphries and his dad were.

I do, though, remember a long-form article and interview with Jerry Tarkanian many years ago. He was honest in that he liked some of his past teams more than others, and some of his teams he downright disliked. I'm sure that was largely personalities and chemistry, but it's a real thing. Some teams mesh better than others.
 

mnhoopboy

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Off-season starts tomorrow. The staff better get working quickly. My off-season to-do list.

- Keep the 4 freshmen in the program. Would be bad to lose Payne, JOJ or Henely. I'd like to keep Carrington as well.

- Get Christie on campus as soon as he can.

- Push Thompson out. If this staff can't upgrade at that spot then we have issues.

- Get Ihnen and Fox healthy. No idea if they can contribute, but getting nothing out of 4 scholarship years out of those two is bad.

- Hit the Portal HARD! Enough with experimenting with low major D1 guards. We need BT quality athletes in our backcourt.

- Shake up the coaching staff. No staff that has won 6 Big Ten games in 2 years should remain in tact. Sure keep Thorson, the other assistants should be replaced, or at least 1 of them.

- Figure out a way to get Garcia more consistent. He was great at times and disappeared in many many games.

Agree on all of these fronts. Especially the coaching staff shake up. I'm sure that'll be one of the first things Coyle will bring up with CBJ. Get someone in there who's had HM coaching experience and specializes in player development.
 


Gopher_In_NYC

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My point is why hire the person in the first place since they were unqualified and then to cover the original bad decision, hire another person to "help". Oh, and who allowed an unqualified head coach to demand an $ 8mm buyout along with an extra year on the original contract after winning 4 bt10 games. Answer: Coyle. Coyle's high-profile coaching hires record is 1-1-2. Hockey (win), football (push/tie) and BB (2 losses).
 


UpAndUnder43

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UpAndUnder43

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GopherWeatherGuy

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Agree on all of these fronts. Especially the coaching staff shake up. I'm sure that'll be one of the first things Coyle will bring up with CBJ. Get someone in there who's had HM coaching experience and specializes in player development.

Why is everyone convinced an assistant with previous high major head coaching experience wants to come work for Ben, especially when it may only be for a year?
 


Big Dawg

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Would be a massive get with a couple years left to play. Continuity is huge and makes it so Asuma can play behind him for a year.
I'm betting there are 10 of those guys out there in non P6 conferences that would enjoy basically a guaranteed starting spot on a BIG team playing with a front court of Payne and Garcia. I could sell that. A guy like that with a combo of Carrington/Cooper/Henley/JOJ/Betts at the 2 and 3 would be nice. If I was Ben, I'd target mayby one more PG and a wing/shooter and look at a big to help Payne.
 

Gopheritnow

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Thanks for the history lesson but I'm not sure how that explanation changes the result. The team was better off without him despite his considerable talents.
That was actually the point I was attempting to make.
 


short ornery norwegian

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I think we all agree that the #1 need is a true PG. Now, personally, I don't give a rip if the PG scores more than 5 pts a game. I just want/need someone who is a good ball-handler and is solid on defense. Must be quick! and must be a 75% or better FT shooter.

and then a 2nd guard option/ball-handler would also be nice.

3rd option would be a solid 3-pt shooter.

Judging from what Christie has said, he sees himself as a ball-handler. If he is, great.
 

howeda7

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Why is everyone convinced an assistant with previous high major head coaching experience wants to come work for Ben, especially when it may only be for a year?
Surely someone enjoys a challenge. I'm not sure it has to be power 6 experience. Just someone with D-1 head coaching experience. Like this guy.

 

MennoSota

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I think we all agree that the #1 need is a true PG. Now, personally, I don't give a rip if the PG scores more than 5 pts a game. I just want/need someone who is a good ball-handler and is solid on defense. Must be quick! and must be a 75% or better FT shooter.

and then a 2nd guard option/ball-handler would also be nice.

3rd option would be a solid 3-pt shooter.

Judging from what Christie has said, he sees himself as a ball-handler. If he is, great.
I saw Jalen Cone play point guard for Northern Arizona. He started his career at Virginia Tech during covid and moved out to NAU. He is a pure point guard, quick like a water bug, and can make free throws. He would be the type of point guard I hope Ben Johnson finds.

 

upnorthkid

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I saw Jalen Cone play point guard for Northern Arizona. He started his career at Virginia Tech during covid and moved out to NAU. He is a pure point guard, quick like a water bug, and can make free throws. He would be the type of point guard I hope Ben Johnson finds.

at 5'11", would have to be. would be the 2nd coming of mathieu
 




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