Gophers AD Mark Coyle looking for ‘next step’ from Richard Pitino’s basketball team

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manderson1984 said:
We had two scholarships open and we took Washington and Harris. You are 100% right Davison was prioritized behind Wright and Washington and Harris (whether it was a good assessment is a fair discussion). That was a rare year. The year after we picked up Gabe, Daniel, and Jarvis.
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And I love the trio that stayed home. But I don't think it was Pitino that was the major draw to the U for them. I believe they would have come regardless.
 

manderson1984 said:
Macura was on Tubby. Pitino wasn't hired until too late to really get involved, but he did offer pretty soon after he got the job. By then Macura had other relationships developed. I get your point with HS coaches in this state, it was the same with Tubby and Monson too. At some point who's fault is it?

The one real "what if" would've been had we chose to take Wright over Washington (very few would've at the time if you looked at offers/rankings at the time) from the get go and maybe D1 MN would get over themselves, but I doubt it. Fact is kids move on and chose what they feel is best for them. If they really feel how a school recruited McKinley or Davison was poor and it affects their decision than so be it, but if they think it's different for them they would still choose here.

MN HS and AAU coaches can also get over themselves bit. They didn't like Monson and were convinced Tubby was great and then they turned on him, and then they liked Pitino at first, but now have turned. At some point there is a common denominator effect there
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I understand the time frame but disagree with Macura.
 

EsteGuey said:
And I love the trio that stayed home. But I don't think it was Pitino that was the major draw to the U for them.
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The way Pitino has recruited outta Minnesota, it's not a high bar for the next coach to get in there and get some guys to come down the road to the U.
 

skiumah1 said:
The way Pitino has recruited outta Minnesota, it's not a high bar for the next coach to get in there and get some guys to come down the road to the U.
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An identity and culture need to be established for our basketball team, similar to how PJ has rebuilt the culture of our football program. Fractured relationships with MN HS and AAU program coaches need to be repaired. And we need to become a development-focused program, one that takes 3 and 4 stars and turns them into 5 * students and athletes. This is not at all easy and it will take a special person to do it, but it has been clear for 2+ that Pitino is not this coach.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I understand the time frame but disagree with Macura.
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Richard was hired in April and Macura committed early September. He was basically offered by Pitino in April and it was JP's first Big Ten offer. What more do you want as far as initial interest? Continuing of the relationship is a different discussion, but he was given attention right away from Pitino. Agreed that Tubby wouldn't give him the time of day and he was big miss. I loved his game.
 


EsteGuey said:
And I love the trio that stayed home. But I don't think it was Pitino that was the major draw to the U for them. I believe they would have come regardless.
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You can't point out the misses and give credits for the ones that land.
 

EsteGuey said:
An identity and culture need to be established for our basketball team, similar to how PJ has rebuilt the culture of our football program. Fractured relationships with MN HS and AAU program coaches need to be repaired. And we need to become a development-focused program, one that takes 3 and 4 stars and turns them into 5 * students and athletes. This is not at all easy and it will take a special person to do it, but it has been clear for 2+ that Pitino is not this coach.
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It's tough to compare anybody to PJ, such a unique guy and unique with his culture. But Craig Smith seems to be as close as you get with this crop of candidates. Seems like an upbeat charismatic guy. Has definitely had success too. I just don't think we have that Fleck type of guy when looking at candidates, which obviously you don't need to have that same identity of energy, but you're right you do need to have AN identity and know what you're preaching. Sounds like Jans is a big defensive guy. Forbes is a JUCO guy. Not totally sure about Medved or Smith, but they win.
 

skiumah1 said:
It's tough to compare anybody to PJ, such a unique guy and unique with his culture. But Craig Smith seems to be as close as you get with this crop of candidates. Seems like an upbeat charismatic guy. Has definitely had success too. I just don't think we have that Fleck type of guy when looking at candidates, which obviously you don't need to have that same identity of energy, but you're right you do need to have AN identity and know what you're preaching. Sounds like Jans is a big defensive guy. Forbes is a JUCO guy. Not totally sure about Medved or Smith, but they win.
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All four that you mentioned are defense first guys. Forbes and Smith had the highest rated defenses last year. Medved and Jans were in the 100s. Forbes is a phenomenal teacher but he's been around some of the sleazier people in college basketball (Gillispie, Pearl, and Marshall). Smith right now is the one I like the most too. He runs really good offense and gets guys to buy into defending. He also had the most talent of any of those 4 too so who knows.
 

manderson1984 said:
You can't point out the misses and give credits for the ones that land.
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For sure he deserves credit for those that come here even if they wanted to stay at home they did choose to play for him. When i compare our recruiting to other programs that we would like to emulate from a winning and doing it clean model we are comparable. But not in winning, that is a crushing blow out and the scary part is those schools i track are ramping up the recruiting to go with astute coaching.
 



manderson1984 said:
All four that you mentioned are defense first guys. Forbes and Smith had the highest rated defenses last year. Medved and Jans were in the 100s. Forbes is a phenomenal teacher but he's been around some of the sleazier people in college basketball (Gillispie, Pearl, and Marshall). Smith right now is the one I like the most too. He runs really good offense and gets guys to buy into defending. He also had the most talent of any of those 4 too so who knows.
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Yeah I won't knock him for getting talent. I did hear he's a very good recruiter. That all works for me. I really would be happy and ready to go with any of those hires. Hopeful again.
 

manderson1984 said:
You can't point out the misses and give credits for the ones that land.
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You're right. But if you consider the larger pattern since that 2017 class, where again, every single recruit left for Indiana, Udub, Texas, Marquette, etc. it seems that the hometown trio were very much exceptions to this trend. I will give Pitino his due for getting Coffey, Hurt, Johnson other MN recruits.
 
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manderson1984 said:
All four that you mentioned are defense first guys. Forbes and Smith had the highest rated defenses last year. Medved and Jans were in the 100s. Forbes is a phenomenal teacher but he's been around some of the sleazier people in college basketball (Gillispie, Pearl, and Marshall). Smith right now is the one I like the most too. He runs really good offense and gets guys to buy into defending. He also had the most talent of any of those 4 too so who knows.
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Coyle will not touch Jans or Forbes.
 





manderson1984 said:
Nor should he especially with other quality candidates available.
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Who are you guys talking for quality candidates? I would think Smith is the top target right now. I still like Medved. Otzelberger I guess has been mentioned.
 

manderson1984 said:
All four that you mentioned are defense first guys. Forbes and Smith had the highest rated defenses last year. Medved and Jans were in the 100s. Forbes is a phenomenal teacher but he's been around some of the sleazier people in college basketball (Gillispie, Pearl, and Marshall). Smith right now is the one I like the most too. He runs really good offense and gets guys to buy into defending. He also had the most talent of any of those 4 too so who knows.
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Bruce Pearl makes my skin crawl.
Always pictured him in an alternative universe selling used cars (lemons of course).
 

I would bet that he was moved by someone not in that group as well as considering the locals favored here. There are better candidates out there.
 



skiumah1 said:
Who are you guys talking for quality candidates? I would think Smith is the top target right now. I still like Medved. Otzelberger I guess has been mentioned.
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There are a lot of guys out there that are high quality. For us, you mentioned some of the tops ones I've mentioned. You just never know, know one knew a guy like Tubby would want this job however many years ago. The market should be flooded next year with the lack of movement this year. Smith has been my favorite for awhile. I really like Becker from Vermont but don't know if it's a good fit along with Wes Miller. I think we are still a little bit of a reach for Niko still personally. Some guys I'm also watching are Jamion Christian from GWU, James Whitford at Ball State, and some assistant coaches that I need to do research on, but Fife from MSU would be one for sure.
 

builtbadgers said:
Rhodes, Miller ,Grant for starters.
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Rhoades doesn't impress me too much. They weren't great this past year in year 3 for him at VCU. I heard Miller is lined up for the UNC job when Roy retires, if Wes Miller is who we're talking. Grant will be a tough pull. I'm putting odds on Craig Smith if I'm bettin' in Vegas.
 

manderson1984 said:
There are a lot of guys out there that are high quality. For us, you mentioned some of the tops ones I've mentioned. You just never know, know one knew a guy like Tubby would want this job however many years ago. The market should be flooded next year with the lack of movement this year. Smith has been my favorite for awhile. I really like Becker from Vermont but don't know if it's a good fit along with Wes Miller. I think we are still a little bit of a reach for Niko still personally. Some guys I'm also watching are Jamion Christian from GWU, James Whitford at Ball State, and some assistant coaches that I need to do research on, but Fife from MSU would be one for sure.
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Assistant coaches are tough hires for me. I just think it's hard to know how they're gonna translate. Agreed on Becker staying east coast and then Miller too. Yeah as I said above I think you gotta say Craig Smith is the odds on favorite at this point. I'd feel good about puttin' money on him.
 

builtbadgers said:
I would bet that he was moved by someone not in that group as well as considering the locals favored here. There are better candidates out there.
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I brought this up earlier this season, but does anyone like Jim Pete as an option? Gopher pedigree, he knows the game inside out, I think he would be a solid recruiter. Only downside would be we won't hear him call T-wolves games anymore.
 

Why would Gopher pedigree matter ? Does Jim want to recruit, can he put a staff together.
 

builtbadgers said:
Why would Gopher pedigree matter ? Does Jim want to recruit, can he put a staff together.
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EsteGuey said:
I brought this up earlier this season, but does anyone like Jim Pete as an option? Gopher pedigree, he knows the game inside out, I think he would be a solid recruiter. Only downside would be we won't hear him call T-wolves games anymore.
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It's an interesting thought. He's an intelligent guy. I think Minnesota connection matters because you have a better chance of getting higher recruits where you're connected to. Jim Pete probably isn't going to get a 5-star kid from California or New York. He might in MN. Work the areas where you're connected, and that's Minnesota for Peterson.
There's still something to be said for getting big-time recruits to stay in Minnesota for the fan base. We like it as fans. I like it. Of course we wanna win but do it with guys we got right in our backyard and it's awesome.
 

Interesting. I am not seeing a connection to coaches getting players from a place they are connected too. I do not see champions built that way. Your certainly entitled to take more pride or pleasure in having locals win, i don't . I actually enjoy when players and people from all over come together and win championships.
 

builtbadgers said:
Interesting. I am not seeing a connection to coaches getting players from a place they are connected too. I do not see champions built that way. Your certainly entitled to take more pride or pleasure in having locals win, i don't . I actually enjoy when players and people from all over come together and win championships.
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Well when Tubby came to Minnesota, Minnesotans got excited. Then he landed Royce White and Rodney Williams. 2 Kids in the Top 50. When you have a new coach come to your state, people in that state get excited and kids playing in that state get excited because the state is excited. Tubby wasn't gonna come in here to Minnesota and land 2 kids with that high of a level from a different state.

So I guess that doesn't necessarily relate to being from Minnesota, obviously Tubby didn't have a big Minnesota connection, but coming to Minnesota he got those recruits in MN.

Another example if Pikiell out in New Jersey with Omoruyi. He's not getting a kid outside of New Jersey at that high of level to come play for Rutgers.

But I think if you bring in a guy with a strong Minnesota connection whose name people know, that elevates the excitement level even more and potentially leads to higher/more recruits. That's my prognostication.
 
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builtbadgers said:
Why would Gopher pedigree matter ? Does Jim want to recruit, can he put a staff together.
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it's obviously not a requirement to have a Minnesota connection, but don't you think it appeals at least somewhat to Gopher fans and hometown recruits alike? I mean isn't that part of the reason this board is infatuated with Smith and Niko? You're absolutely right to question if he has the coaching chops that translate to the men's college game, but imo it's not fair to say that having a coach that played for the Gophers during one of their most successful periods has NO importance.
 

builtbadgers said:
Interesting. I am not seeing a connection to coaches getting players from a place they are connected too. I do not see champions built that way. Your certainly entitled to take more pride or pleasure in having locals win, i don't . I actually enjoy when players and people from all over come together and win championships.
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"I am not seeing a connection to coaches getting players from a place they are connected too. I do not see champions built that way."

The second sentence may hold water, but on its face that first sentence kind of defies common sense. You don't think coaches have an easier time getting players that they are connected to in some way???
 

manderson1984 said:
Richard was hired in April and Macura committed early September. He was basically offered by Pitino in April and it was JP's first Big Ten offer. What more do you want as far as initial interest? Continuing of the relationship is a different discussion, but he was given attention right away from Pitino. Agreed that Tubby wouldn't give him the time of day and he was big miss. I loved his game.
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If Macura would have liked the coach who was brought in...I think there would have been a strong chance he would have gone to the U.
 

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