Gopher Talent Level Debate

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BrewsterBooster said:
Quite possibly the most ignorant, off-the-mark post I have read in a long long time. 2007 is no more Brewster's recruiting class than Wren and logic go together. Brewster was in the NFL when he was hired....completely out of the recruiting loop. I will judge Brewster in the 2011 season when his first recruiting class from February of 2008 are seniors. He had to completely reload this team with talent.
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2011? This goalpost is just going to keep sliding back, isn't it?

I think this year is a pretty fair one to start drawing some concrete conclusions about Brewster and the path of this program. We'll see where things stand after the year.
 

dpodoll68 said:
...unlike many other programs, we hired Brewster straight from the NFL. Usually when this happens (Saban to Alabama, Carroll to USC, Weis to Notre Dame, Jagodzinski to BC, etc.) the program is in good enough shape that its immediate future doesn't hinge upon a quality recruiting class to set the program on a good course. That certainly was not the case here, by any reasonable assessment of the situation. Was Brewster supposed to be recruiting HS players while he was TE coach for the Broncos?
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You pretty much nailed why I didn't think hiring a rookie head coach with a limited resume was a good idea for our needs. Thanks for summarizing my core issues with the Great Promiser's hiring.:clap:
 

Khaliq said:
2011? This goalpost is just going to keep sliding back, isn't it?

I think this year is a pretty fair one to start drawing some concrete conclusions about Brewster and the path of this program. We'll see where things stand after the year.
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This year? No, no. He will need at least 4 more classes after Weber and Decker leave! You gotta give this guy a chance!:rolleyes:
 

ULF says most coaches are fired late in recruiting season, this is patently false as most coaches do not go to bowl games like Mason and are fired after the regular season ends. Brewster's late hire as unusual. Yet, Ulf just ignores facts and plows on. This tells me one thing, he doesn't care if he is fair in his analysis. At least he has Wren to back up his nonsense.
 


The ONLY thing anyone has is the official record. The official record says that this brewster has a record of 8 wins and 17 losses at the University of Minnesota. His Big Ten record is 3 wins and 13 losses. The 2009 season record will be the third installment of the state of the University of Minnesota Football Program. The numbers will tell the story. I really do want a lot of Big Ten wins for the gopher Football Program in the fall of 2009!
 

Well we never really got anywhere with that Mason. I loved winning 3 BT games every year with that mason. Maybe eventually this dumbass will realize you actually need some talent to win games and that mason left us with players that couldn't make a high school adaptive flag football team. The ONLY thing we know is that Mason never got us anywhere and the program just went in circles. If that mason spent as much time on recruiting as he did on whitening his teeth we could have had some good players. Funny how that mason and Brewster were recruiting for the same program yet Brew has actually brought in some real players.
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Toyota fx-1 specifications
 

Show me the big Ten wins gopherfan75, and then we'll talk. Just win baby! Until this brewster starts bringing home Big Ten wins in BIG numbers...he is a nobody and a nothing.

And who gives a rip about Mason. He did get the money though!

He took that maturi and prexy b to the cleaners big time! ; 0 )
 

Sliding Goalposts?

Khaliq said:
2011? This goalpost is just going to keep sliding back, isn't it?

I think this year is a pretty fair one to start drawing some concrete conclusions about Brewster and the path of this program. We'll see where things stand after the year.
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This is no sliding goalpost for ME. I have said from day one that 2011 is the year I will judge Brewster. You can judge him any date you want to. I don't care. 2007 was shaping up to be a mediocre recruiting year, then Mason is fired, Brewster is not hired until mid-January, Brewster is coming from the NFL and has not been in the recruiting loop at all so he can't bring his recruits in, and the new staff is hired too late to bring their recruits to MN. Brewster brings his first class to MN in February, 2008.....this is a Brewster class, you can tell because it is nothing like 2007.

Listen, there are people out there who hate Brewster and they will find every way possible to belittle him. Go ahead. We still have freedom of speech around here. There are those who are ardent supporters of Brewster. No problem. I am in between....I give Brewster until 2011 when his first full recruiting class are seniors. If he is not getting it done, go ahead and fire him. Head coach is a performance position. Either you get it done or you don't. All I know is the Gophers have not had this kind of young talent in the program for a looooooong time....and the most important iingredient in a successful program is talent.
 



minngg said:
ULF says most coaches are fired late in recruiting season, this is patently false as most coaches do not go to bowl games like Mason and are fired after the regular season ends. Brewster's late hire as unusual. Yet, Ulf just ignores facts and plows on. This tells me one thing, he doesn't care if he is fair in his analysis. At least he has Wren to back up his nonsense.
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End of the year firings are common. Are we really going to excuse Brewster for poor performance this year because he was so hampered by being hired 4 to 6 weeks after the usual period over two years ago? Not so long ago it was very rare to be fired/hired mid season, a trend that is unpleasantly gaining prevalence in FBS coaching these days, and everybody had a short recruiting cycle. Loosing the previous coach's kids isn't that odd either. But how long will the hand wringing continue over this 2007 class? The first class at a school that doesn't recruit for itself is often lackluster for any new coach, especially one coming in December or January. It doesn't excuse an such epically awful season that ensued nor does it excuse being the worst first year performer of the 23 new head coaches of his class.

What is more, this guy was hired to be a recruiter and god willing he isn't moaning over his shorten ed 07 recruiting season and is out there dazzling '10 recruits; as as I stated above I believe that this will be a class that may well define a great deal of his future here at the U.

Quite simply the myriad excuses for this man are getting rather pathetic around here. After hiring him for immediate effect we first heard he ought be judged on a couple of years, as the train was roaring off the tracks in '07. Now that is being pushed back, perhaps because of the shameful performance down the final stretch of '08. And now that they face a drastic upswing in non-conference opponents that will no doubt mean we will be facing 2012 or 2013 as the new "give-Brew-a-fair-chance" timeline. Not that any such deadlines matter because for better or worse he will get 5 years because Maturi's career is chained to the deck of Brewster's little ship, and with it both will sink.

As towards facts minngg. Nit pick over 8 weeks lost recruiting all you want (much of it a dead period I'll add), here is some factual analysis for you: The trophy case has been empty for years now, a fundamental indicator of success here at the U. A quick glance at the clock tells me that it has been 545 days empty for to be precise. It has been 952 days since we lost the jug and Brewster has recently squandered our best shot in decades, so now we have to wait another 909 days for redemption. [Thankfully it will be 2011 so we can judge him on that performance.(but wait, there might be some Lloyd Carr kids lurking so we better let it be 2012 to be fair to both coaches:rolleyes:)] Sure the jug is the elusive one and many have gone before him who couldn't get narry a sniff of it. He can't, however, even capture Reusee's lowly and all-too-close-to-the-truth fictional 'little tin can' trophy from Northwestern. Further, how long until he avenges the debacle against Iowa?

These are not "non-sense" concerns and we surely didn't hire him with the expectation of waiting until 2011 before checking off some of these goals. If he can get 6 wins this season and at least knock off one rival I will be a little more convinced this ship is heading in the right direction, but lord knows if it doesn't happen there will be plenty of you guys to step and make some excuses. Some of you would put old spin-mastered politicos to shame with your ability to whitewash and sugarcoat.
 

4starrecruit said:
The ONLY thing anyone has is the official record. The official record says that this brewster has a record of 8 wins and 17 losses at the University of Minnesota. His Big Ten record is 3 wins and 13 losses. The 2009 season record will be the third installment of the state of the University of Minnesota Football Program. The numbers will tell the story. I really do want a lot of Big Ten wins for the gopher Football Program in the fall of 2009!
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So "this" Brewster has a 8 -17 record.... What does the other Brewster have for a record? Should we be wishing the U would have hired that one?
 


ulfr

Want me to name all of the successful coaches that had losing records their first two seasons? I know you don't want to hear facts except your own facts. I believe you give a guy a chance before judging him. Anyone and I mean anyone that cannot see the upgrade in talent Brewster is assembling is well, frankly not a very good football mind. If you want to continue to believe that our YOUNG talent will not produce over time, that is your prerogative. I would rather think positively.
 



ulfr said:
End of the year firings are common.
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Most end of the year firings occur around Thanksgiving, and the hirings tale place in early December, with about 2-3 weeks of recruiting available until dead time. And Mason had very few commitments at the time of the Insight Bowl.

Mason was fired on January 1. That is 5-6 weeks after the date most coaches are fired. Take out the 10-day dead period, that is still about a month of recruiting. Then factor in the time there was no coach, most people figured that the 2007 class was going to be substandard.
 

There is no question Brewster is a better recruiter than Mason. I think the book is still out on him as a coach. There have been so many changes with this coordinators it is hard to tell what his true philosophy is about offence and defence. As an administrator of the coaching staff I feel like he is still learning on the job. As a sideline coach there were times he seemed overmatched. I have always wondered why he was never named a coordinator, it seems many of his coaching moves were lateral. I am not a Brewster basher. I hope he wins now and wins big. I do believe we will not know what kind of head coach he is until the 2010 season. Go Gophers!
 

I would kill to get back the 15 minutes I spent reading this thread. The amount of posters lacking comprehension in the real world is astounding. This board should charge admission so the rest of the world can't see how moronic some of our fanbase is.
 

clubber said:
I would kill to get back the 15 minutes I spent reading this thread. The amount of posters lacking comprehension in the real world is astounding. This board should charge admission so the rest of the world can't see how moronic some of our fanbase is.
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Thanks for enlightening us Gopher fans with your post. Real insightful.
 

minngg said:
Thanks for enlightening us Gopher fans with your post. Real insightful.
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Thanks. I guess I will aspire to get to 50 posts and predictably mention Iowa in most of them to achieve your message board success. I hope one day I can be part of "us".
 

I don't think we should wait until 2011 to evaluate the job Brewster has done. Maybe up until that point you don't give a final grade, but you have to evaluate a coach on a year by year basis IMO. Brewster's first year was nothing short of a disaster, which if people had seen all of the signs ahead of time, was a predictable fate, though maybe not to the proportions it ended up being. Year 2 was much improved, it probably exceeded most expectations, but in reality that was only because of the poor expectations set up by the disastrous first year. But he probably just about met the expectations you would have expected from that team in Year 2 considering the talent level. This year we see another increase in talent, so it is reasonable to expect improvement once again, if not by overall record, by at least quality wins.

I don't sit there and analyze an overall record of a coach after his first two years on the job like some of the people here. When you take over a program that had plateaued and then began to fall off, it is unreasonable to expect instant success with the next coach unless you happen to be fortunate and get a coach of the caliber of a Tubby Smith like the team did in basketball. The main idea here is you should see progression as time goes on, and really, no one can argue that there is no progression with Brewster. Now if this season we see a fall off and we don't earn any real quality wins and we look bad on numerous occasions, I think there is good reason to take a pause and say, "Where are we really going with this guy?" because the team should be getting better and better because the talent is getting better and better. If that's not happening, that will make me take a step back and question some things, and I think that is a reasonable approach to it.
 

First of all, basketball isn't football. Football programs are much more difficult to turn around. Also, Minnesota can get enough local talent in basketball to be competitive. Second, you do not turn around football programs that have been pretty much in the tank for 40 years without taking a step back. Those that thought Brewster was going to walk in and win from day one were looking through rose colored glasses. Give the man his time to succeed. If he doesn't I will be the first to call for his head. We are improving the talent level of this team. That is for sure. It would be a shame to lose that type of recruiter because we were not patient enough for the wins to come.
 

clubber said:
Thanks. I guess I will aspire to get to 50 posts and predictably mention Iowa in most of them to achieve your message board success. I hope one day I can be part of "us".
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Another Iowa fan posing as a Gopher fan. Probably Pantherhawk again. The man is obsessed. Complete moron.
 

First, let me say that I support Brewster and what he's doing and trying to do. I like someone who publicly raises the bar on expectations.

That said, I think the jury is still out on his abilbity to "coach". There is no doubt he has increased the talent level of the roster.

I think their is an intersting parallel to Ed Ogeron at Ole Miss. There is not doubt that Ogeron definitely recruited better athletes and players than the previous staff. He appeared, though, to have a hard time coaching them. Coming in last year, I think Houston Nutt was able to take full advantage of the talent Ogeron recruited. Nutt is a very good coach but no coach can win with clearly inferior talent. We'll never know, but it would have been intersting to see what Ogeron could have done last year with all his own recruits as I think it would have been his 4th year.

I hope we give Brewster at least the time to have a full season with all his own players.

Thanks,
 

minngg said:
Another Iowa fan posing as a Gopher fan. Probably Pantherhawk again. The man is obsessed. Complete moron.
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Hard for me to admit, but I'm speechless. This board never ceases to amaze me.
 

Brewster was basically hired to accomplish three main things: 1) improve the Gopher football PR, 2) improve recruiting and 3) put a more competitive team on the field. After two years he has made significant inroads with the PR aspect, has brought in two widely respected classes and has struggled with number 3. And he has injected a high amount of much needed energy into the program and has established lofty goals.

From the get-go I have said that Brewster has a very, very difficult task. Outside of a few brief moments, the football program has been "down" for four decades. The move to the damn dome did not help the program and it should get a boost with TCF. I have also stated that Brewster inherited a team short on overall talent and depth which has been evident with just one Gopher being drafted in the last two years and very few getting free agent contracts.

Brewster has made some major gaffs during his first two years and his lack of CFB experience was evident plus he has not demonstrated the ability to retain coordinators nor settled on an offensive philosophy. I am glad he finally dumped Dunbar and his version of the spread and has implemented the current offense. 2009 is an important year as new recruits need to step up and raise the talent level and support Brewster claim to be a top recruiter. And his team needs to show the ability to be competitive in each game. That will be a tough gig as the 08 team gave up 37ppg and scored a mere 15 ppg in its last 5 games, all L's. How well he functions as HC will be closely scrutinized as well.

It will be interesting to see how Maturi handles Brewster's contract. IMO, if he shows an improved team this Fall, the players GPA continues to rise and the players remain good citizens, he deserves a one or two year extension. If not, he should be allowed to coach another year but significant results must be realized or Maturi will be faced with a difficult decision. Extend two more years or make a switch.

I still believe Minnesota can be a competitive BT program. The Admin. has stated that is its goal and realizes the impact a strong program has on the UM. But it remains to be seen if Brewster is the guy.
 

Fantasy football recruiting rankings Never has done a darn thing for my impression of this brewster as a recruiter. Where are the Big Ten wins? There have been a fair number of jc players recruited. I haven't seen a huge impact on Game Day Saturdays agains decent competition because of the hyped recruits. Big Ten wins will tell us IF and when this brewster's recruiting efforts are one bit better than Mason's...or Gutey's or Wacker's recruiting efforts were. Each of those coaches recruited some VERY fine, exciting and productive athletes. Perhaps not enough to contend for Big Ten championships EVERY year...but...Mason did make some noise in that department with wins over Michigan and OSU and PSU among the others.

So far with this brewster, we have seen nothing too exciting on Game Day Saturdays during the Big Ten portion of the season.

Please, just cool your excessive talk about this brewster being a hot-shot recruiter, because, it is not showing up. You look very foolish. Fantasy football recruiting might be a hobby for some of you, but, the results are just not there. Cool the talk until IF and when his recruiting efforts start showing up in large numbers of Big Ten WINS. Talk is cheap...have this brewster just DO IT!

Until the recruits win Big Ten Football games they are merely young football recruits. One would think the jucos could make an important impact if they are super-duper-jim-dandy-four/five-star-can't-miss-nfl-super-stars. I haven't seen any of those types from this brewster's recruits yet during the Big Ten games.
 

4starrecruit said:
Fantasy football recruiting rankings Never has done a darn thing for my impression of this brewster as a recruiter. Where are the Big Ten wins? There have been a fair number of jc players recruited. I haven't seen a huge impact on Game Day Saturdays agains decent competition because of the hyped recruits. Big Ten wins will tell us IF and when this brewster's recruiting efforts are one bit better than Mason's...or Gutey's or Wacker's recruiting efforts were. Each of those coaches recruited some VERY fine, exciting and productive athletes. Perhaps not enough to contend for Big Ten championships EVERY year...but...Mason did make some noise in that department with wins over Michigan and OSU and PSU among the others.

So far with this brewster, we have seen nothing too exciting on Game Day Saturdays during the Big Ten portion of the season.

Please, just cool your excessive talk about this brewster being a hot-shot recruiter, because, it is not showing up. You look very foolish. Fantasy football recruiting might be a hobby for some of you, but, the results are just not there. Cool the talk until IF and when his recruiting efforts start showing up in large numbers of Big Ten WINS. Talk is cheap...have this brewster just DO IT!

Until the recruits win Big Ten Football games they are merely young football recruits. One would think the jucos could make an important impact if they are super-duper-jim-dandy-four/five-star-can't-miss-nfl-super-stars. I haven't seen any of those types from this brewster's recruits yet during the Big Ten games.
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So 1-7 vs OSU, 1-7 vs Michigan, 2-8 vs Wisconsin, 4-6 vs Iowa was a successfull career in your mind for your hero Coach Mason? Just the facts, right?
 

4starrecruit said:
Fantasy football recruiting rankings Never has done a darn thing for my impression of this brewster as a recruiter. Where are the Big Ten wins? There have been a fair number of jc players recruited. I haven't seen a huge impact on Game Day Saturdays agains decent competition because of the hyped recruits. Big Ten wins will tell us IF and when this brewster's recruiting efforts are one bit better than Mason's...or Gutey's or Wacker's recruiting efforts were. Each of those coaches recruited some VERY fine, exciting and productive athletes. Perhaps not enough to contend for Big Ten championships EVERY year...but...Mason did make some noise in that department with wins over Michigan and OSU and PSU among the others.

So far with this brewster, we have seen nothing too exciting on Game Day Saturdays during the Big Ten portion of the season.

Please, just cool your excessive talk about this brewster being a hot-shot recruiter, because, it is not showing up. You look very foolish. Fantasy football recruiting might be a hobby for some of you, but, the results are just not there. Cool the talk until IF and when his recruiting efforts start showing up in large numbers of Big Ten WINS. Talk is cheap...have this brewster just DO IT!

Until the recruits win Big Ten Football games they are merely young football recruits. One would think the jucos could make an important impact if they are super-duper-jim-dandy-four/five-star-can't-miss-nfl-super-stars. I haven't seen any of those types from this brewster's recruits yet during the Big Ten games.
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You know what, I agree, recruits mean ZERO when it comes to how good a coach is doing on the field. They have to PRODUCE. Totally agree with that. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence, however, that the more talent your team brings in (high stars, 3+ type recruits), the better your chances are for success. It's not a guarantee, but it sure increases your likelihood of success. It is not pure coincidence that Ohio State wins the Big Ten every year it seems, lately and are in the top 15 nationally in recruiting every year. If we go 2-6 in the Big Ten next season, I'll be just as ticked off as you. But I really don't think two seasons is enough of a sample to pass any judgment on "this brewster" as coach of the University of Minnesota football team in the future. If this is as good as it gets (3-5 in the Big Ten), then yeah, I'd consider him as failing to get the job done, cause he didn't do any better than Mason did.
 

clubber said:
Hard for me to admit, but I'm speechless. This board never ceases to amaze me.
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Funny stuff. Being a member since May of 2009 I am sure you have seen it all with respects this forum. By the way, the next time you get to a thread and you waste 15 mins of your life reading it, you might want to think about stopping after 5 or 10 mins. Save yourself some of your valuable time.
 

4starrecruit said:
Fantasy football recruiting rankings Never has done a darn thing for my impression of this brewster as a recruiter. Where are the Big Ten wins? There have been a fair number of jc players recruited. I haven't seen a huge impact on Game Day Saturdays agains decent competition because of the hyped recruits. Big Ten wins will tell us IF and when this brewster's recruiting efforts are one bit better than Mason's...or Gutey's or Wacker's recruiting efforts were. Each of those coaches recruited some VERY fine, exciting and productive athletes. Perhaps not enough to contend for Big Ten championships EVERY year...but...Mason did make some noise in that department with wins over Michigan and OSU and PSU among the others.

So far with this brewster, we have seen nothing too exciting on Game Day Saturdays during the Big Ten portion of the season.

Please, just cool your excessive talk about this brewster being a hot-shot recruiter, because, it is not showing up. You look very foolish. Fantasy football recruiting might be a hobby for some of you, but, the results are just not there. Cool the talk until IF and when his recruiting efforts start showing up in large numbers of Big Ten WINS. Talk is cheap...have this brewster just DO IT!

Until the recruits win Big Ten Football games they are merely young football recruits. One would think the jucos could make an important impact if they are super-duper-jim-dandy-four/five-star-can't-miss-nfl-super-stars. I haven't seen any of those types from this brewster's recruits yet during the Big Ten games.
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You really have no clue how college football works do you?
If you want to insist that Brewster has had 3 recruiting classes then fine...
class 1-Brewster didn't land any hyped recruits, I think Jacobs was in that class, he was the only 4 star. We'll see if he contributes this year, I personally think he will.
class 2-after these TRUE FRESHMEN and jucos hit the field the team won ONLY 6 more games then the prior year. Are you blind to not see the impact? Maybe you should go back and look at the secodary from last year and from 2 years ago. Even though last years secondary had very little experience strides were made as Brewster recruits took the field. Oh and some of the most hyped guys from class 2 havent played a down yet so learn a little patience. There is a thing called redshirting/greyshirting. Good programs usually don't throw true freshman into the games right away, usually because true freshman are at a large disadvantage strength and maturity wise.
class 3-yet another solid class...but why haven't we seen anything from these recruits??? oh yeah they haven't even finished h.s. yet.
 

Don't hype players who have never played a down. We will know IF they are players when they play and not a minute before they take the field and go head to head with Big Ten players from other Big Ten teams. So cut out the loose talk bragging about them like they are something and somebody who will rip up the Big Ten. Maybe they will...maybe they won't. Don't count on diddly squat from a player who has never gone deep into the 4th quarter against a bunch of All_Big Ten players from Ohio State or PSU or some of the other Big Ten programs. Let 'em get their bells rung and see if they come back for more...and make a few hits on the other guy across the line from them wearing some other Big Ten jersey. Then we will know if they are players or if they are over-hyped high school all stars who need a few more years of everything before they are ready to go.

I always have best wishes for the new kids, but I never expect much from them until I see how they play in Big Ten ball.

I'm telling you that this brewster needs to win a lot of Big Ten football games to start looking like somebody who is going to stick around though. He is so green and wet behind the ears himself I really wonder how the heck maturi ever could have offered him the head coaching job. The guy doesn't even have a clue what HIS offensive philosophy is and he has been letting his coordnators RUN THE SHOW. So, when a coordinator gets fired or leaves, he has to bring in new coordinators to decide what offense and what defense he is going to be running. What's with that? This brewster just doesn't know what HE wants to do. He has to bring in coordinators to tell him what he maybe, sort of might want to try to do. Who is in charge over there?????
 

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