Gopher Quarterback Redux
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Pompous Elitist
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What are we doing here except to trade opinions on gopher football? It's ok to agree to disagree. Do you really want an echo chamber of rainbows and unicorns?
One thing is for sure, by and large Coach Kill doesn't give a rip what we think except he wants to be respected and he wants his players to be respected by giving their all and playing a clean, hard game with discipline, and keeping their noses clean off the field.
I guarantee coach kill isn't saying aw shucks, guess well get em next time.
He understands the problems and will deal with them instead of burying his head in the sand.
I would wager quite a lot of cash that well be seeing more of old number 7 next year unless by some miraculous transformation, laying on of hands #9 can pull it all together. Hamstrings, concussions, shoulder injuries...maybe that's what it is. Maybe not.
One thing is for sure, by and large Coach Kill doesn't give a rip what we think except he wants to be respected and he wants his players to be respected by giving their all and playing a clean, hard game with discipline, and keeping their noses clean off the field.
I guarantee coach kill isn't saying aw shucks, guess well get em next time.
He understands the problems and will deal with them instead of burying his head in the sand.
I would wager quite a lot of cash that well be seeing more of old number 7 next year unless by some miraculous transformation, laying on of hands #9 can pull it all together. Hamstrings, concussions, shoulder injuries...maybe that's what it is. Maybe not.
Pompous Elitist
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Btw, I chuckled a little bit on the mental image of a meandering 11, 12 second sack. That would be quite a feat.
Being "more of a passer" doesn't equate to being the "better passer." Those are two different things. Clearly, Nelson was more of a passer based on the gameplans during the regular season. If that's what you meant, then so be it.
But, I watched every snap of every game and I absolutely did not believe Nelson was necessarily the better passer. Didn't really think Leidner was all that great, either. I felt we had two QBs, neither of whom could pass very well. You can go back and check previous posts of mine, but I've felt all along that Nelson would have to get way better as a passer and he simply hasn't. And, against good defenses (IA, WIS, MSU), he struggled pretty bad. If anyone didn't have these concerns, then they weren't watching all that closely. Even during the 4-game winning streak, we didn't get a high level of QB play (although 4 TD passes and a Player of the Week honor for Nelson against Indiana was indeed nice). We went 13 quarters without an offensive TD with Nelson down the stretch.
Basic point, if the Gophers truly want to be a division contender, then the QB play has to pick up significantly. I hope something clicks for Nelson, but for right now, he has not proven to be a very good thrower of the football.
e.bigelow
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WAT?! I could rationalize most of your post until the part I put in bold. I, and quite a few others, would argue that during the four game win streak is the best QB play we have seen in quite some time. I would say that Nelson played at a pretty high level during the four game win streak. Didn't turn the football over, made key throws and plays when needed, etc.
I guess it all comes down to what people consider a 'high level' of QB play. Look, both these kids are going to miss some throws and turn the ball over from time to time, its part of the game, but to dismiss how Nelson played during the four game win streak is pretty hard for me to do. Fact is, chances are we probably will not have a QB who puts up 300+ yards passing with 3 TD's, or more, every game. It is just not the style of offense we run. So, I guess what I am saying is, everyone has a different expectation of what a 'high-level' of QB play is. Without Nelson's play at QB during those games, one could argue we probably loose most, if not all, of those games. Just my opinion.
I didn't mean for this to turn into an anti-Nelson tangent. I love the kid's attitude and work ethic and hope he gets it to click. But, if you remove emotion from the analysis, the fact of the matter is he needs to play better if the Gophers are to be division title contenders.
That said, he did play well during the four-game stretch. Big thing was no interceptions, that is for sure. The numbers are not elite or all-Big Ten, but were good enough to win four games and get a Player of the Week Award.
vs. Northwestern: 8-11, 112 yards, 1 TD
vs. Nebraska: 7-15, 152 yards , 1 TD
vs. Indiana: 16-23, 298 yards, 4 TD
vs. PSU: 15-24, 186 yards, 1 TD
I don't believe that. Limegrover's offense made Chandler Harnish a star. In Limegrover's last year at NIU, Harnish threw for 2530 yards, 21 TDs, 5 INTs, and ran for an additional 836 yards and 7 TDs. Nelson doesn't need to match that but if he can get closer to those numbers, then the Gophers can be contenders. The very encouraging thing about this is, that Harnish's career path in his first two years were fairly close to Nelson's before Harnish broke out as a junior. Would love for Phillip to do the same and have a breakout junior year. If he does, then we will be in the mix in the division, in my opinion.
I'm certainly not tossing the kid aside. I think he ultimately has the best chance to give the Gophers big numbers.
Here are stats for Nelson's first two years and Harnish's first two years in the Limegrover system:
NELSON FRESHMAN: 75-152, 49%, 873 pass, 8 TD, 8 INT, 184 rush, 0 TD
HARNISH FRESHMAN: 118-211, 56%, 1528 pass, 8 TD, 9 INT, 539 rush, 4 TD
NELSON SOPHOMORE: 94-186, 51%, 1306 pass, 9 TD, 6 INT, 364 rush, 6 TD
HARNISH SOPHOMORE: 143-223, 64%, 1670 pass, 11 TD, 6 INT, 240 rush, 2 TD
HARNISH JUNIOR: 189-292, 65%, 2530 pass, 21 TD, 5 INT, 836 rush, 7 TD
Given Nelson played in fewer games as a freshman and was banged up for times as a sophomore, I think his stats are close to on par with Harnish (and Harnish probably had better weapons in a relative sense, given competition level, etc.)
So, this gives me hope that in the Limegrover system a QB can be brought into his own. Nelson is still only about 18 games into his career. Again, the biggest thing is he needs to get that completion rate up, and to help with that his accuracy simply has to improve.
NELSON FRESHMAN: 75-152, 49%, 873 pass, 8 TD, 8 INT, 184 rush, 0 TD
HARNISH FRESHMAN: 118-211, 56%, 1528 pass, 8 TD, 9 INT, 539 rush, 4 TD
NELSON SOPHOMORE: 94-186, 51%, 1306 pass, 9 TD, 6 INT, 364 rush, 6 TD
HARNISH SOPHOMORE: 143-223, 64%, 1670 pass, 11 TD, 6 INT, 240 rush, 2 TD
HARNISH JUNIOR: 189-292, 65%, 2530 pass, 21 TD, 5 INT, 836 rush, 7 TD
Given Nelson played in fewer games as a freshman and was banged up for times as a sophomore, I think his stats are close to on par with Harnish (and Harnish probably had better weapons in a relative sense, given competition level, etc.)
So, this gives me hope that in the Limegrover system a QB can be brought into his own. Nelson is still only about 18 games into his career. Again, the biggest thing is he needs to get that completion rate up, and to help with that his accuracy simply has to improve.
e.bigelow
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I agree he needs to improve vastly as well. Both he and Leidner do. I think we are both trying to say the same thing, just saying it a little differently.
I guess it depends on what you expect your QB to do. For me, it is take care of the football (i.e. Limit TO's), and win games. And, as unfair of a statement as it is, it can be argued Nelson probably has won B1G Ten games for us, where Mitch hasn't won us any, yet. I know, he hasn't had as many oppotunities, but he did earlier in the season, I.E. Mich, NW, and a chance against MSU when PN9 was injured and really didn't deliver either. (I'm sure I missed some others in there)The only part I disagree with you is that I don't see us having a prolific passer in Limey's O. At least, anytime soon. With those JR YR Harnish number, over a standard 12 game season, not including a bowl or conference championship games, if you average those numbers, it is 210.83 yrds per game and 1.75 TD's per game. Not exactly world-beater numbers, albeit, MUCH better preformance than what we have gotten right now. So, I guess, I would be very happy with those numbers. The big thing in Harnish's JR YR is the INT number. (And, of course he comp. % each year is vastly superior to PN9)
Good analysis the last two posts, BTW, tjgopher!
gopherdudepart2
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I guess sarcassam didn't translate
11 to 12 seconds is clearly hyperboyle and and exageration on my part on time in the pocket, but your description of meandering in the bowl game is fitting. Nobody ever get's that amount of time to get a play off, you do get the point though that he had 3 to 4 progressions of moving his head around, went past that and still held the ball in the bowl game to take at least two sacks. You are right though both quarterbacks have taken sacks where they could have easily gotten rid of the ball. Pro quarterbacks even do this especially one that has started many games for the Vikings.
Some guys have instincts to feel pressure and can sidestep it or avoid the pressure some do not.
Coach Kill has said it the Gophers need one of the quarterbacks to emerge this spring as the guy. This two quarterback system over the long haul isn't going to work well. They will separate themselves in due time, some think Leidner some think Nelson only time will tell.
11 to 12 seconds is clearly hyperboyle and and exageration on my part on time in the pocket, but your description of meandering in the bowl game is fitting. Nobody ever get's that amount of time to get a play off, you do get the point though that he had 3 to 4 progressions of moving his head around, went past that and still held the ball in the bowl game to take at least two sacks. You are right though both quarterbacks have taken sacks where they could have easily gotten rid of the ball. Pro quarterbacks even do this especially one that has started many games for the Vikings.
Some guys have instincts to feel pressure and can sidestep it or avoid the pressure some do not.
Coach Kill has said it the Gophers need one of the quarterbacks to emerge this spring as the guy. This two quarterback system over the long haul isn't going to work well. They will separate themselves in due time, some think Leidner some think Nelson only time will tell.
I guess time told us something today.