Gopher Hockey Recruiting

[pinball]

Dude just get over it, you're obsessed with nitpicking every little thing about Bonin

Dude, I asked you a simple question about what valid points Bonin has made and you didn't even name one. Says alot.
Its ok, as you can read there are many other posters who rip on Bonin too. I dont have a problem with you but you are in the very minority that sticks up for him.

 

[GopherPete]

Dude, I asked you a simple question about what valid points Bonin has made and you didn't even name one. Says alot.
Its ok, as you can read there are many other posters who rip on Bonin too. I dont have a problem with you but you are in the very minority that sticks up for him.

I don't have to point out his valid takes, sorry, I'm not going to. If you disagree that is fine with me. Lets move on.

 

[bonin21]

If he points out takes he agrees with the three or four usual suspects will just attack him cuz they don't agree with them.

 

[upnorthkid]

I've seen lots of Big Ten regular season titles.
I haven't seen a Big Ten tourney title I don't think as I'm pretty sure they were just in Michigan and Notre Dame...
I've seen WCHA regular season titles including the Nate Schmidt goal.
I've seen WCHA Final Five titles including the Wheeler goal.
I've seen Frozen Four semi wins including the 0.6 goal.

At this stage of my fandom, I want titles. Period. I'd trade 50 of the above for one national championship at this point. I was in middle school for the last titles.

I watch a LOT of Gopher hockey and have obsessed over not just the current teams but the recruiting for most of my life. I see what works and what doesn't and the trends over time.

And my opinion, which is just one person's, is that the current staff is not going to bring a title. I've seen enough about how his teams play and the lack of adjustments he's made to both his recruiting and in-game adjustments. Even if he gets a first rounder late from the CHL which I don't think he's going to, it's not enough to close the gap of a very poorly constructed roster. The D as a unit looks absolutely brutal and looks like the late Lucia D corps. The pipeline is thin and weak. He is pulling D3 guys from his new backyard in the Lake Minnetonka area. Rud is not Gopher quality but is on the team because his dad is Motzko's friend. Reid is not Gopher quality but committed because, same thing, played for Motzko's same friend.

I've dumped a lot of money into the program over the years, and I'd say it's fair that I speak with my wallet. I don't think the AD is a total idiot so I'm pretty confident this is the last year of this staff.

share much of the same sentiment as you and we're about the same age. the B2B is far too long ago at this point, same as Michigan fans would tell you how long it has been is unacceptable (I'll be very interested to see what happens to their coach, especially if they miss the postseason again). We have a little different approach in going to games (I'm a STH and go to every FF regardless) but that's fine.

On the recruiting, it's been pretty clear Bob was right in terms of how the in state talent looked for a couple years as it was down overall in terms of those truly top flight guys. He temporized it with pulling Knies and Cooley and still had a pretty good hit rate of the other top end talent. He has missed, and there's really no other way to put it, in terms of who has developed into that top end talent in the last couple classes. Some of that is that MN is hotly recruited, but it was worsened by that guys either didn't dev as expected (Kvas, Philips, Moore) and that the classes overall have just been worse with less 1st round talent. It's on Bob to figure that out, but this writing was a bit on the wall that it was coming.

As far as the D unit, I disagree with you it being "brutal" as we're dressing 4 draft picks, 2 of which are seniors who have shown they can play well at the college level and a high 2nd round Freshman amongst them. they don't have that top end puck mover we love to see, that doesn't mean they're brutal. I'd expect this group, that is bigger and heavier, plays more that style than the Lucia teams who were notoriously soft.

I'm much happier Bob is bringing in this kid as a 15th forward than having Kvas play in NCAA this year. Rud and Begley I agree much more on as they should not even be rostered. Reid I don't understand what the deal is with him at all as you could pull a MN kid with similar numbers right now to fill that spot.

 

[bonin21]

I'm much happier Bob is bringing in this kid as a 15th forward than having Kvas play in NCAA this year. Rud and Begley I agree much more on as they should not even be rostered. Reid I don't understand what the deal is with him at all as you could pull a MN kid with similar numbers right now to fill that spot.

14th forward. Unless he's bringing in Nevers, too, or playing Begley up there... Regardless it's unacceptable because he is your 12th forward when Mooney and Ziemer go to WJC.

 

[bonin21]

Rud and Begley I agree much more on as they should not even be rostered.

And yet he has 8D with these two as 25% of them... Generally you play 7D rather than 13 forwards. He can't even fill out a roster anymore. Any injury or WJC player and one or both of these guys is playing top 6.

He's going to play 13F and 6D with ZERO room for injuries and Harris/Begley/Rud as the scratches.

 

[upnorthkid]

14th forward. Unless he's bringing in Nevers, too, or playing Begley up there... Regardless it's unacceptable because he is your 12th forward when Mooney and Ziemer go to WJC.

yeah I guess I'm expecting Nevers is coming in this fall. Personally would rather they looked to grab another guy from Canada or poached elsewhere. I don't know about "unacceptable. We skated Pino, Schmidt, Strobel, and Mitts in 22-23 and no one batted an eye. Every team has these guys at the end of the lineup (see Peter Lajoy and Alec Whipple, yes John's brother, for DU last year; BC skating some random junior who's played 17 games and played in the NCDC before going to BC; and the list goes on). It's really tough to collect those guys and yes you absolutely have to hope you stay healthy and despite last year's total cluster fuck of injuries, Michel still only played in 10 games. Don't super love skating Begley up there, but he actually has played pretty responsibly when given the chance, albeit he offers you absolutely nothing going the other way.

 

[upnorthkid]

And yet he has 8D with these two as 25% of them... Generally you play 7D rather than 13 forwards. He can't even fill out a roster anymore. Any injury or WJC player and one or both of these guys is playing top 6.

He's going to play 13F and 6D with ZERO room for injuries and Harris/Begley/Rud as the scratches.

and yeah I agree that is the problem. to me it's not so much Harris as the extra F, it's Begley/Rud as the defensemen. Zero reason this should be the case. Get they're both now upperclassmen and should be responsible, but not exactly confidence inspiring. Personally I'd rather we'd have been in the portal and taken one more guy back there, even if it was someone like Mclaughlin where you have some extra buffer as your 7th D man.

That said, you don't have to be a draft pick to figure it out later so maybe this will be worry for nothing. PSU has a 1st and 6th rounder as their draft picks this year, but no one is batting an eye that they'll be good back there. Same with UND having 4 guys as draft picks but they think they have the best d core in the country this year if you ask their fans.

 

[bonin21]

and yeah I agree that is the problem. to me it's not so much Harris as the extra F, it's Begley/Rud as the defensemen. Zero reason this should be the case. Get they're both now upperclassmen and should be responsible, but not exactly confidence inspiring. Personally I'd rather we'd have been in the portal and taken one more guy back there, even if it was someone like Mclaughlin where you have some extra buffer as your 7th D man.

That said, you don't have to be a draft pick to figure it out later so maybe this will be worry for nothing. PSU has a 1st and 6th rounder as their draft picks this year, but no one is batting an eye that they'll be good back there. Same with UND having 4 guys as draft picks but they think they have the best d core in the country this year if you ask their fans.

PSU: 1st rounder + All American 1st teamer
UND: 1st rounder back for 2nd year (should take a step) + 2026 2nd overall pick + All American 2nd teamer
Gophers: 2nd rounder...

 

[upnorthkid]

PSU: 1st rounder + All American 1st teamer
UND: 1st rounder back for 2nd year (should take a step) + 2026 2nd overall pick + All American 2nd teamer
Gophers: 2nd rounder...

PSU: yep and he played in the NAHL prior to putting up points at Army with a modest output his freshman year before taking a big leap and its coupled with a Fr 1st rounder who had good but not great output in the WHL and is 18.
UND: Emery certainly should as it would be hard to go backward, Verhoeff they're probably talking about sheltering a bit because he's 17 and an undrafted guy who was really good.

My point being, stop falling in love with them just because they're drafted when both teams best D men are undrafted guys who developed and mid round picks who have been around. Same as I'd expect Mitts and Thomas are our best defensemen this year and both are very good college players. I'm actually really curious to see what Gruba does this year as well as he had huge production his last year in the USHL but his game seemed to be missing that. Game usually slows down a ton between 1st and 2nd year.

 

[bonin21]

PSU: yep and he played in the NAHL prior to putting up points at Army with a modest output his freshman year before taking a big leap and its coupled with a Fr 1st rounder who had good but not great output in the WHL and is 18.
UND: Emery certainly should as it would be hard to go backward, Verhoeff they're probably talking about sheltering a bit because he's 17 and an undrafted guy who was really good.

My point being, stop falling in love with them just because they're drafted when both teams best D men are undrafted guys who developed and mid round picks who have been around. Same as I'd expect Mitts and Thomas are our best defensemen this year and both are very good college players. I'm actually really curious to see what Gruba does this year as well as he had huge production his last year in the USHL but his game seemed to be missing that. Game usually slows down a ton between 1st and 2nd year.

Are you serious? Just because they're drafted? That's why I called it the All Americans, which are known commodities in college hockey...

Gruba clearly isn't as good as he was expected to be. Mittelstadt and Thomas are, again, known commodities. You're not going to see some big jump from them. Whipple was also a huge disappointment compared to when he committed.

Rombach could be great in year 2 and 3 but won't be able to be the guy this year.

 

[upnorthkid]

Are you serious? Just because they're drafted? That's why I called it the All Americans, which are known commodities in college hockey...

Gruba clearly isn't as good as he was expected to be. Mittelstadt and Thomas are, again, known commodities. You're not going to see some big jump from them. Whipple was also a huge disappointment compared to when he committed.

Rombach could be great in year 2 and 3 but won't be able to be the guy this year.

it's like you purposefully have your idea in your head and don't read.

I am saying, their best d men for next year are undrafted or lower drafted guys who developed. 1st rounders can take time to get it together. See Emery. 1st year Faber and Lacombe had their struggles. Some guys are electric from day 1, but that transition is super tough and that's why you don't just pencil in every 1st rounder like they're going to come in and dominate (Smith we'll see, Verhoeff is 17, Emery struggled last year, etc.).

Gruba is to me a bit of a sink or swim year. He wasn't asked to do many of the things he was good at in Fargo as we had Rinzel, a more experienced Koster, Chesley, etc. all able to play that role. Same as I am not expecting a "jump" from Mitts or Thomas (but there's a reason Bob said Mitts was our first defensemen used in 3v3 because he is sound defensively).

Whipple I agree I don't have a ton of optimism. Did like some of his physicality and he didn't shy away from it in a limited role, but he clearly should've played a year of juniors (at least).

Agree I'd doubt Rombach is "the guy" this year and would expect is by committee. Same as he would be if he was picked 5 picks earlier like Emery was but omg 1st round pick.

The last line is tongue in cheek and trying to reiterate the point of who really cares precisely when a guy is picked, which has a whole bunch of factors going into it. You railed previously that we weren't going to have a 2nd round pick like we were screwed purely based on that. For next year, I'd much rather have Gadowsky than Smith, or Livanavage than Verhoeff. That's my point.

 

[bonin21]

1st year Faber and Lacombe had their struggles. Some guys are electric from day 1, but that transition is super tough and that's why you don't just pencil in every 1st rounder like they're going to come in and dominate (Smith we'll see, Verhoeff is 17, Emery struggled last year, etc.).

Gruba is to me a bit of a sink or swim year. He wasn't asked to do many of the things he was good at in Fargo as we had Rinzel, a more experienced Koster, Chesley, etc. all able to play that role. Same as I am not expecting a "jump" from Mitts or Thomas (but there's a reason Bob said Mitts was our first defensemen used in 3v3 because he is sound defensively).

Whipple I agree I don't have a ton of optimism. Did like some of his physicality and he didn't shy away from it in a limited role, but he clearly should've played a year of juniors (at least).

Agree I'd doubt Rombach is "the guy" this year and would expect is by committee. Same as he would be if he was picked 5 picks earlier like Emery was but omg 1st round pick.

The last line is tongue in cheek and trying to reiterate the point of who really cares precisely when a guy is picked, which has a whole bunch of factors going into it. You railed previously that we weren't going to have a 2nd round pick like we were screwed purely based on that. For next year, I'd much rather have Gadowsky than Smith, or Livanavage than Verhoeff. That's my point.

One point: Faber was clearly going to be a star less than a month into his college career. His hockey IQ was incredible to witness at 18 and a few months.

 

[upnorthkid]

One point: Faber was clearly going to be a star less than a month into his college career. His hockey IQ was incredible to witness at 18 and a few months.

that's super super fair. incredibly impressive brain. still took him a while to get to the level of dominating/shut down, but you could tell it was there.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Yeah bonin is annoying, but amazing how seriously some take it, sort of like how amazing how serious bonin takes it.

But the truth is even with his negativity, bonin and upnorth are the only two people that provide any insight and information on the hockey board, even though it is framed negatively(bonin, not upnorth)

There are at least a half a dozen posters who have never posted about anything except how negative bonin is.

 

[Crosby]

Yeah bonin is annoying, but amazing how seriously some take it, sort of like how amazing how serious bonin takes it.

But the truth is even with his negativity, bonin and upnorth are the only two people that provide any insight and information on the hockey board, even though it is framed negatively(bonin, not upnorth)

There are at least a half a dozen posters who have never posted about anything except how negative bonin is.

Last post on this subject... This forum is like a small neighborhood bar. It's a decent bar in a good spot but seating is kind of limited. There is one drunk loudmouth who is always there. He talks too loudly, insults people, and tells everyone who will listen how smart he is. Basically just an a$$. This is Bonin. There is another regular, who often sits near the drunk guy. He has the patience of a saint and tries to talk some sense into the drunk. He is a great guy to talk to and everyone enjoys being around him. This is Upnorth. Then... there are a bunch of other people who think the bar is kind of cool. They enjoy the spot and stop in from time to time to see what is going on. Most of them are good guys and can add a lot to a conversation. During the fist sip of their first drink, they hear the loud drunk guy spewing his stuff. They interject a comment or two, and are promptly and loudly ridiculed. They roll their eyes at the saint as a sign of sympathy. They depart after the first drink, and leave the drunk guy and the saint together. These people come back from time to time, look around, and realize the drunk is still there. Sometimes they order a drink, don't say much, and then leave. Sometimes they just leave without saying a word. They stop back one in awhile, hoping something has changed. It hasn't. Drunk guy is always there. Eventually these people stop coming.