Gopher de-committs going to............

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lmh839 said:
I know a win is a win, but I just don't understand how so many people think last year was such a great success based on the 9-4 record.

The Gophers were 8-5 in 2014 and had wins over Nebraska, Iowa and Michigan. The schedule also included TCU, Ohio State and Michigan. I thought 2014 was much more successful than the 9-4 team in 2016. Why? Because the actually won some trophy game/rivalry games. The 2016 Gophers were 9-4 but still finished 4th in the division because they couldn't beat Wisconsin, Nebraska or Iowa. Fans will never get excited unless you can start winning these trophy games more frequently.

You can go 6-3 in the conference every year and 9-3 overall, but unless you start beating your rivals, you are never going to be the best. So while winning games is important, you also need to win your rivalry/trophy games to get fans excited. Attendance was horrible at the Iowa game this year especially considering it was the only premier home game on the schedule.

I think PJ will be very successful if he can consistently win 8 or 9 games with an occassional 10 win season and beat your rivals on a more consistent basis. You are not going to beat Iowa, Nebraska or Wisconsin each year but you should be able to beat them once every two years, especially at home. I am fine with 8 wins if you can beat a WI, IA or Nebraska consistently. 8 wins is disappointing if you lose to WI, IA and Nebraska in the same season. That is why I was not very impressed with the 9-4 team from 2016. Should have had at least 10 wins in my opinion.
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Pretty much lost me after this...sounds like you go on to argue the opposite.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Side-step.

If expectations come up, regardless of the thread, you are correct. Pretty sure PJ agrees with me, so I'm good. Like him quite a bit more for saying it.
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Side-step what? A big part of Fleck's culture is based on optimism and that failure is growth. You really think Fleck is going to tell his team they are worse than last year's team? Do you think he told his first Western Michigan team that they were only going to be a 1 win team? If so you really don't get it.
 

I Want 2 Win said:
Its not like these guys are going to top schools either. They are going to top non-P5 and low-end P5 schools.
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Um... what exactly did you think we were? Kill n Co. got us out of the low end perhaps, but we certainly have a long way to go to get to snobby about where our offer should rank v. Other schools.



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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Side-step what? A big part of Fleck's culture is based on optimism and that failure is growth. You really think Fleck is going to tell his team they are worse than last year's team? Do you think he told his first Western Michigan team that they were only going to be a 1 win team? If so you really don't get it.
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If he lied. This post clarifies it...sort of. If I got this right, he thinks they are worse but told them the opposite. Your interpretation of this from Shooter's article..."Meanwhile, Fleck, in a meeting with seniors, said the team is not in a rebuilding situation, but will build on last year’s (9-4, 5-4 Big Ten) record." is that PJ really meant your failure is growth comment? Huh. Sounds like he just clearly stated his assessment of the situation (not a rebuild) and his expectations (build on last year's record).

Also, are you now saying WMU was not a rebuild situation when he arrived?
 

lmh839 said:
I know a win is a win, but I just don't understand how so many people think last year was such a great success based on the 9-4 record.

The Gophers were 8-5 in 2014 and had wins over Nebraska, Iowa and Michigan. The schedule also included TCU, Ohio State and Michigan. I thought 2014 was much more successful than the 9-4 team in 2016. Why? Because the actually won some trophy game/rivalry games. The 2016 Gophers were 9-4 but still finished 4th in the division because they couldn't beat Wisconsin, Nebraska or Iowa. Fans will never get excited unless you can start winning these trophy games more frequently.

You can go 6-3 in the conference every year and 9-3 overall, but unless you start beating your rivals, you are never going to be the best. So while winning games is important, you also need to win your rivalry/trophy games to get fans excited. Attendance was horrible at the Iowa game this year especially considering it was the only premier home game on the schedule.

I think PJ will be very successful if he can consistently win 8 or 9 games with an occassional 10 win season and beat your rivals on a more consistent basis. You are not going to beat Iowa, Nebraska or Wisconsin each year but you should be able to beat them once every two years, especially at home. I am fine with 8 wins if you can beat a WI, IA or Nebraska consistently. 8 wins is disappointing if you lose to WI, IA and Nebraska in the same season. That is why I was not very impressed with the 9-4 team from 2016. Should have had at least 10 wins in my opinion.
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You should follow Coach Fleck's advice. When somebody says "Yes, but...", everything before the but is BS.
 


PMWinSTP said:
If he lied. This post clarifies it...sort of. If I got this right, he thinks they are worse but told them the opposite. Your interpretation of this from Shooter's article..."Meanwhile, Fleck, in a meeting with seniors, said the team is not in a rebuilding situation, but will build on last year’s (9-4, 5-4 Big Ten) record." is that PJ really meant your failure is growth comment? Huh. Sounds like he just clearly stated his assessment of the situation (not a rebuild) and his expectations (build on last year's record).

Also, are you now saying WMU was not a rebuild situation when he arrived?
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Even if he wins 4 games next year he didn't lie. He's optimistic about next season, nothing wrong with that. Build can mean anything. Doesn't mean he expects to win 10 games next year. He said yesterday on ESPN 1500 that that they will build next season and that can mean building more off the field than on the field.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Even if he wins 4 games next year he didn't lie. He's optimistic about next season, nothing wrong with that. Build can mean anything. Doesn't mean he expects to win 10 games next year. He said yesterday on ESPN 1500 that that they will build next season and that can mean building more off the field than on the field.
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So that's what he meant by saying "build on last year's record"...I thought he literally meant, you know, build on last year's record.

Switch to a smaller shovel.
 

Why did Kitrell leave to go to Ohio?
 




PMWinSTP said:
So that's what he meant by saying "build on last year's record"...I thought he literally meant, you know, build on last year's record.

Switch to a smaller shovel.
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I've always taken every word from every coach literally. No where in history has a coach ever told players, fans, media what they want to hear.
 








Bayfieldgopher said:
From a recruiting service...........
Kyrei Fisher--Arkansas
Joshua Croslen--Houston lean
Bryson Jackson--Baylor
Jacquaris Landrews--Miss St
Trey Creamer--Iowa
Corey Gaynor--U Miami
Raheem Layne--Indiana
Javan Hawes--Cincinnnati
Claudin Cherelus--UMass
Brett Kitrell--Ohio U
Jimmie Terry--?
Jakyle Holmes--?

Looks like most of them did OK.
Updates or corrections?
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So we swapped power 5 recruits for Western Mich recruits?


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Okay, let's try a different approach.

Is there anyone out there willing to say Claeys is a better recruiter than Fleck? If so why?
 



BroncoRedux said:
Okay, let's try a different approach.

Is there anyone out there willing to say Claeys is a better recruiter than Fleck? If so why?
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I can't imagine so, at least not with a straight face. Now I can't argue the opposite with much confidence either, simply because Fleck only had 30 days to put this together. I would and do expect better with the next class, but to criticize Fleck at all for this class is well, not intelligent. Those who do either don't understand how recruiting works or they have Kill/Clayes colored glasses on and won't accept anything that Fleck does. Give PJ adequate time to do his job before u rip him.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Side-step what? A big part of Fleck's culture is based on optimism and that failure is growth. You really think Fleck is going to tell his team they are worse than last year's team? Do you think he told his first Western Michigan team that they were only going to be a 1 win team? If so you really don't get it.
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That's a little apples-and-oranges. Fleck took over a WMU team that was 4-8/2-6 and had been muddling along. I wasn't a die-hard Claeys fan, but the base that is in place is pretty good. Question will be QB play and that can be the difference.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I've always taken every word from every coach literally. No where in history has a coach ever told players, fans, media what they want to hear.
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OK, got it. He lied to the players about his expectations. Cool. Anything to tamp down expectations. Even coach's comments, which may or may not be true.

Remind me, were you one who was all over TC for not winning 10 games because he thought 8-10 was a good expectation last year?
 

PMWinSTP said:
OK, got it. He lied to the players about his expectations. Cool. Anything to tamp down expectations. Even coach's comments, which may or may not be true.

Remind me, were you one who was all over TC for not winning 10 games because he thought 8-10 was a good expectation last year?
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I can' speak for him, but I would have been surprised if we had won 10 games.
 

50PoundHead said:
I can' speak for him, but I would have been surprised if we had won 10 games.
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Yep...but really only one end-zone INT from ML to get that 10th win. Pick the game...Penn St or Neb.

There was a group saying TC did not meet his own stated expectations, and should be gone for that...you know, taking the coaches comment literally at the high end of his expectation.
 

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