Giving Up on Gopher FB?

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Dr.Don

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I am old enough to remember that in the Gopher FB season of 1959 or 1960, Murray Warmath was hung in effigy on the U of M campus. What did he do? Came out the next season with National Champions.
 

Was his team as sloppy & undisciplined as Brewsters?
 



I don't know but like Brewsters team the talent was all underclassmen. There is a huge difference between a Senior and a junior, and twice that again over a sophmore, and freshmen are next to invisible. I'm continually surprised at those who don't understand this. It's as if they think the gophers are the vikings and are bringing in grown men free agents instead of underdeveloped and inexperienced 18 year olds. Hell even in the pros, a rookie rarely sees the field unless he's a skill guy. Yet our two years of recruits are suppose to be kicking ass.
 


Nope. I'm not giving up. In fact I'm kind of having fun with these dotter posters.

EDIT FOR MORE DOTS.......
 

Schnoodler said:
I don't know but like Brewsters team the talent was all underclassmen. There is a huge difference between a Senior and a junior, and twice that again over a sophmore, and freshmen are next to invisible. I'm continually surprised at those who don't understand this. It's as if they think the gophers are the vikings and are bringing in grown men free agents instead of underdeveloped and inexperienced 18 year olds. Hell even in the pros, a rookie rarely sees the field unless he's a skill guy. Yet our two years of recruits are suppose to be kicking ass.
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Schnoods...IMO, beautifully stated. Even back then, immediate gratification had to be satisfied. To me, most of the Brew haters are totally lacking understanding of what it takes to build a program. I used the Murray Warmath example just to show that this has happened in the past, and no one, and I mean no one, knows for sure what will be, only that there is a lot of immature criticism on these boards, which to me shows nothing but a lack of knowledge about the big picture. My sermon is finished. Thank you, Schnoodler.
 

monk10 said:
Nope. I'm not giving up. In fact I'm kind of having fun with these dotter posters.

EDIT FOR MORE DOTS.......
Click to expand...

Some of us are addicted to dots (ellipsis plus for all our scholars)...must be driving you nuts...but thanks much for noticing and commenting...some of us need more daily supervision.
 

If people want Brewster fired right now because they don't think he's bringing in talent, then they're wrong. He is, he just hasn't been around long enough. I think he's a great recruiter, and if he stays here he will continue recruiting well.

The reason I think Brewster should be fired is because he can't coach. When i say "he" i mean his entire staff. The people he hired. It's obvious, and no matter how much you love the program, you have to see that. It's so bad it's embarassing, and i'm not just talking about the offensive ineptitude. I'm talking about disorginized sidelines, poor usage of time outs, being slow to get plays into the huddle, penalty problems......etc. It's been bad from day 1 and he hasn't gotten any better. I always assumed he would, but i was wrong.

I'm not giving up on the program, but i am giving up on Brewster and his staff. It's clear to me that they can't get it done.
 





>>Commenting on the dots people use.....stupid.<<

Not knowing that the ellipsis is always used properly with exactly three dots...priceless.
 

NewEngland_Gold said:
Some of us are addicted to dots (ellipsis plus for all our scholars)...must be driving you nuts...but thanks much for noticing and commenting...some of us need more daily supervision.
Click to expand...

Now I'm intrigued. You are letting me know that you are intentionally leaving out words or phrases from your original text. You are so mysterious, maybe topping the Dos XX's guy?

:clap::D

Maybe I should switch to binary, since I'm not leaving things out?

Here is my secret message t oyou:

Code: 
0100100100100000011100110111010001101001011011000110110000100000011011000110111101110110011001010010000001111001011011110111010100100000010011100110010101110111010001010110111001100111011011000110000101101110011001000101111101000111011011110110110001100100
 



I am never giving up. People who come here and rip the team and Brewster should realize that they are doing nothing to help or support their supposed favorite team. Brewster is going to be here for at least the length of his current contract. If you don't like it you should either change your CFB rooting interests or stop following the Gophers until 2011 when we will have a team that is competing for a rose bowl berth.
 

thailleagle said:
Stop It
Click to expand...

You could stop with the same message every time. We get it. You are not happy with the program. Reminding us of that fact does not need to be in every thread. You make some good points now and then, but those points get lost when you repeat them over and over and over.
 

I think using only three dots shows a complete lack of creativity...
 

ChemEGopher said:
I am never giving up. People who come here and rip the team and Brewster should realize that they are doing nothing to help or support their supposed favorite team. Brewster is going to be here for at least the length of his current contract. If you don't like it you should either change your CFB rooting interests or stop following the Gophers until 2011 when we will have a team that is competing for a rose bowl berth.
Click to expand...


Your comment revitalizes my position. The complainers are part of the problem. They are unwilling to be part of the solution.
 

Schnoodler said:
I don't know but like Brewsters team the talent was all underclassmen. There is a huge difference between a Senior and a junior, and twice that again over a sophmore, and freshmen are next to invisible. I'm continually surprised at those who don't understand this. It's as if they think the gophers are the vikings and are bringing in grown men free agents instead of underdeveloped and inexperienced 18 year olds. Hell even in the pros, a rookie rarely sees the field unless he's a skill guy. Yet our two years of recruits are suppose to be kicking ass.
Click to expand...

So........

1) The Sr's and Jr's on this years team have been coached by Brewster for 3 years now. If we don't argue the talent level point - eg the talent behind them is better -- for a moment, watching the lack of discipline, the confusion, and the basic unpreparedness of his teams is concerning that he can actually coach. Better players will hide some, but not all of that and that is a concern.

2) If you look at the players Brewster's recruited to fill gaps and improve the quality of the team, aside from Simoni Lawrence who has been steady but not spectacular and Troy Stoudimire who is a stud on Special Teams (until the penalty invariably brings the play back) but mediocre at best as a WR what promise is there that this better talent will improve the team?
-David Pittman sure hasn't.
-Hayo Carpenter sure hasn't
-Jeff Wills sure hasn't
-Big Play Traye has given up as many Big Plays as he's made (if not more)
-Marquies Gray has looked as confused, overwhelmed and inaccurate as Weber in his playing time (if not worse) save the practice like quality his only extended appearance took place in.

It isn't a forgone conclusion that Brewster will not succeed here but there are not clear indications that I can point to to say, yes, it is headed in the right direction.

Take 1: Yes, the D looked good and held Iowa to 12 pts at home.
Take 2: Yes, Iowa, playing with significant injuries didn't press anything offensively when it became obvious we could not get anything going offensively, and conservatively insured victory leaving the 9 and then 12 point lead to the defense to protect.

Take 1: We had a chance to win Against tOSU -- it was only 7-0 at half time
Take 2: Our offensive struggles were so bad, we were never in the game, the score was close until tOSU worked out their offensive Demons and took it to us in the second half.

I could go on and on with this.

I have not, nor will I ever give up on Gopher Football, but I have been convinced that:

  • John Gutekunst and the prevent offense wasn't going to get it done.
  • Jim Wacker was a hell of a guy, but getting down by 21 before we did anything offensively wasn't going to get the program anywhere
  • Glen Mason had delivered some moderate success and had us within one victory on two occasions of going to the Rose Bowl but that we would never get over the hump with him at the helm and we needed someone to take us the rest of the way
  • Tim Brewster set this program backwards when he was hired by insisting we start over completely, and while sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards, there are usually signs of consistency of approach that illustrates progress and opportunity. All we have is higher recruiting rankings than we've had in the past, which again will help, but will not overcome the evident coaching deficiencies that have plagued this program since Brewster took over.

You don't have to agree, but if you can't even consider the evidence that suggests there are significant issues that "better" players may not address (e.g. getting the play to Weber with more than 7 seconds on the play clock, or not having an unsportsmanlike penalty in something like 20 of the last 25 games), then I would say you haven't been watching and you would say I'm dumb or giving up on Gopher Football or something else like that.
 

tikited said:
You could stop with the same message every time. We get it. You are not happy with the program. Reminding us of that fact does not need to be in every thread. You make some good points now and then, but those points get lost when you repeat them over and over and over.
Click to expand...

He will never stop. He's one of those annoying whiny people who if they don't get their way will make the rest of the people's lives around them hell.
 

Dr.Don said:
Your comment revitalizes my position. The complainers are part of the problem. They are unwilling to be part of the solution.
Click to expand...

Maybe the solution is to get a coach that is not in over his head. So what are you going to do then to fix the problems, are you going to start showing up at practice running throwing drills with Weber?
 

Sounds like Dr. Don and I remember a lot of the same things. I certainly remember the ridiculous photo in the Mpls Star showing the burning as it took place, as well as the huge bandwagon the following year. Now we

I'm frustrated and have a ton of questions I'd like to ask this coaching staff, but will save giving up on them for the proper time, which is after they've had a full opportunity to prove themselves. It helped listening to ex-Goph Conzemius' talk with Rosen last night. I'd suggest following his patient stance and let some other team's fans prematurely burn bridges.
 

GopherGod. Please do NOT come back at me as to how to fix the problems. I am not one of the complainers. In answer to your question... Are You?
 

caliGopher said:
So........

1) The Sr's and Jr's on this years team have been coached by Brewster for 3 years now. If we don't argue the talent level point - eg the talent behind them is better -- for a moment, watching the lack of discipline, the confusion, and the basic unpreparedness of his teams is concerning that he can actually coach. Better players will hide some, but not all of that and that is a concern.


I don't think anyone is saying there aren't improvements to be made or that Brewster is a great on field coach at this point, but there is something to be said for overmatched and inexperienced athletes making more mistakes, and i know you point out three year starters, but the majority of the penalties are not from those guys. It's from the first year guys, be it Juco's or freshmen.


2) If you look at the players Brewster's recruited to fill gaps and improve the quality of the team, aside from Simoni Lawrence who has been steady but not spectacular and Troy Stoudimire who is a stud on Special Teams (until the penalty invariably brings the play back) but mediocre at best as a WR what promise is there that this better talent will improve the team?
-David Pittman sure hasn't.
-Hayo Carpenter sure hasn't
-Jeff Wills sure hasn't
-Big Play Traye has given up as many Big Plays as he's made (if not more)
-Marquies Gray has looked as confused, overwhelmed and inaccurate as Weber in his playing time (if not worse) save the practice like quality his only extended appearance took place in.

It isn't a forgone conclusion that Brewster will not succeed here but there are not clear indications that I can point to to say, yes, it is headed in the right direction.

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if people that post here even watch the games. Cooper, Wilhite, Carter, McKnight, Gray, Stoudimire, Allen, Edwards, Tinsley, Green, dandridge, Kirksey. That's twelve freshmen or sophmores making significant contributions. All of which look more talented than the experienced guys ahead of them.
Take 1: Yes, the D looked good and held Iowa to 12 pts at home.
Take 2: Yes, Iowa, playing with significant injuries didn't press anything offensively when it became obvious we could not get anything going offensively, and conservatively insured victory leaving the 9 and then 12 point lead to the defense to protect.

Take 1: We had a chance to win Against tOSU -- it was only 7-0 at half time
Take 2: Our offensive struggles were so bad, we were never in the game, the score was close until tOSU worked out their offensive Demons and took it to us in the second half.

I could go on and on with this.

I have not, nor will I ever give up on Gopher Football, but I have been convinced that:

  • John Gutekunst and the prevent offense wasn't going to get it done.
  • Jim Wacker was a hell of a guy, but getting down by 21 before we did anything offensively wasn't going to get the program anywhere
  • Glen Mason had delivered some moderate success and had us within one victory on two occasions of going to the Rose Bowl but that we would never get over the hump with him at the helm and we needed someone to take us the rest of the way
  • Tim Brewster set this program backwards when he was hired by insisting we start over completely, and while sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards, there are usually signs of consistency of approach that illustrates progress and opportunity. All we have is higher recruiting rankings than we've had in the past, which again will help, but will not overcome the evident coaching deficiencies that have plagued this program since Brewster took over.

You don't have to agree, but if you can't even consider the evidence that suggests there are significant issues that "better" players may not address (e.g. getting the play to Weber with more than 7 seconds on the play clock, or not having an unsportsmanlike penalty in something like 20 of the last 25 games), then I would say you haven't been watching and you would say I'm dumb or giving up on Gopher Football or something else like that.
Click to expand...

There are significant issues. I am on record as disliking the fisch hire and thinking it may ultimately sink him. But this is not a black and white situation, like everything else in life its in the middle. The difference is that that critical components favor Brewster, because success at this level always requires talent. At least more than the other guys on your list Brewster has shown he can get it which mean he alone is the only one with a chance to get us to the promised land. Brewster can become a better coach.

And like the fat girl to the ugly girl upon being called a fatty, "at least i can lose weight, and you'll always be ugly" I love that one.
 

I remained a fan through the last two years of Joe Salem's tenure and if that couldn't turn me away from the Gophers, I'm afraid nothing will. Smoldering Joe was another pretty good guy, but he went backwards consistently as the Gopher coach. Program was light years worse when he left.
 

Dr.Don said:
Your comment revitalizes my position. The complainers are part of the problem. They are unwilling to be part of the solution.
Click to expand...
Dr.Don. Posting for change.

Posting for our future.
 

Schnoodler said:
There are significant issues. I am on record as disliking the fisch hire and thinking it may ultimately sink him. But this is not a black and white situation, like everything else in life its in the middle. The difference is that that critical components favor Brewster, because success at this level always requires talent. At least more than the other guys on your list Brewster has shown he can get it which mean he alone is the only one with a chance to get us to the promised land. Brewster can become a better coach.

And like the fat girl to the ugly girl upon being called a fatty, "at least i can lose weight, and you'll always be ugly" I love that one.
Click to expand...

Schnoodler, i see what you're saying about the talent he's bringing in, but is he becoming a better coach? He's 3 years in and he's still the same. His sideline is chaos and his teams are undisciplined. He has yet to pull an upset in 3 years (unless you count Illinois from last season...i don't) as HC. I really thought he'd be a decent coach by now, but h hasn't shown me any progress and that's ultimately why i don't think he will last here. I hope i'm wrong.
 

tpbeight said:
He has yet to pull an upset in 3 years (unless you count Illinois from last season...i don't) as HC.
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We were not favored to win against Illinois, and we won. I don't know what else constitutes an upset.

The same is also true for Michigan St and (I believe) Northwestern this year.
 

dpodoll68 said:
We were not favored to win against Illinois, and we won. I don't know what else constitutes an upset.

The same is also true for Michigan St and (I believe) Northwestern this year.
Click to expand...

He probably meant "BIG" upsets...like a Penn State or Iowa victory.......
 

I have been saying this for ever

Dr.Don said:
Your comment revitalizes my position. The complainers are part of the problem. They are unwilling to be part of the solution.
Click to expand...

yup
 

i have given up on punctuation all together it is a remnant days pre-tweat and i find all the extraneous use of dots dashes distracting and the under use of hyphens and solidi and guillemets(except for when gopher4life needs to quote someone) dismaying
 

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