Gerry DiNardo's analysis of our recruits

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Gopherprof said:
Criticize him if you want, but it is a legitimate question. Kill was able to pull in 3 in-state guys with offers from other BCS programs (Pirsig, Hayes, McDonald). Perhaps Philip and Maxx (or others) would have received offers had they not committed so early, but we don’t know that.

Also, while the in-state haul is impressive, the out-of-state haul is considerably less so. For a coaching staff with ties to the midwest markets, they did a poor job compared to their peers, losing every single player they went after who had offers from any other BCS program. We offered 14 Chicago-area kids and received one commit (Jack Lynn) who had only MAC offers. We offered 24 kids in Missouri/Indiana/Ohio and received two commits; again, kids who had no other BCS offers.

These aren’t selective numbers; this pattern holds up across the country.

You can shrug this off as no big deal, or a product of the fact that we're the Gophers and we're just not going to be able to recruit nationally. But it is a question worth raising.
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I agree it's worth questioning. I'm going to stay optimistic about it (could be any number of factors that our out of state recruiting was down relative to our instate recruiting this year), but next year it will be interesting to watch the recruiting trail play out. With fewer schollies Kill's going to have to be pretty judicious with how he hands them out.
 

Gopherprof said:
Criticize him if you want, but it is a legitimate question. Kill was able to pull in 3 in-state guys with offers from other BCS programs (Pirsig, Hayes, McDonald). Perhaps Philip and Maxx (or others) would have received offers had they not committed so early, but we don’t know that.

Also, while the in-state haul is impressive, the out-of-state haul is considerably less so. For a coaching staff with ties to the midwest markets, they did a poor job compared to their peers, losing every single player they went after who had offers from any other BCS program. We offered 14 Chicago-area kids and received one commit (Jack Lynn) who had only MAC offers. We offered 24 kids in Missouri/Indiana/Ohio and received two commits; again, kids who had no other BCS offers.

These aren’t selective numbers; this pattern holds up across the country.

You can shrug this off as no big deal, or a product of the fact that we're the Gophers and we're just not going to be able to recruit nationally. But it is a question worth raising.
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+1. They will have to improve in BCS battles for out of state kids.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Yes, he obviously inked plenty of athletes from beyond our borders, but none that even scratch a high 3-star ranking, much less a 4-star. I think Nelson, Pirsig and Hayes have the potential to be legit Big 10 caliber players and possibly make a decent impact. The rest of the class appears littered with guys with offers from non-BCS schools. What's the deal???
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Jamel Harbison? Jordan Hinojosa? Dinero Moss? KJ Mays? Roderick Williams? All Rival 3 star recruits from out of state with BSC offers.
 

zambam said:
Oh noes BigGopherFan is upset! Can't sign 3-star guys from out of state? Really? I count 14 3-star guys from out of state. But hey, I actually looked. And nah, that Harbison kid is gonna be terrible, same with that McDonald kid. Boddy wasn't thought of as an SEC recruit if he stayed one more year in JuCo. Nope nope nope.
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I never said he couldn't sign 3 star guys out of state you idiot. Try reading a little closer next time. Since you're probably too lazy, here is exactly what I stated: "but none that even scratch a high 3-star ranking, much less a 4-star." What I was communicating was that he signed plenty of out-of-state kids, but none seem to be very highly regarded. They are 3 stars according to Rivals, but not very highly rated.
 

BigGopherFan said:
I never said he couldn't sign 3 star guys out of state you idiot. Try reading a little closer next time. Since you're probably too lazy, here is exactly what I stated: "but none that even scratch a high 3-star ranking, much less a 4-star." What I was communicating was that he signed plenty of out-of-state kids, but none seem to be very highly regarded. They are 3 stars according to Rivals, but not very highly rated.
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http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/123963/jamel-harbison

What were you saying?

I think its pretty well known that Harbison is at least a high 3-star, close to 4-star. He is considered by most of recruiting sites to be a great pick-up for the U and someone who could contribute immediately.
 


BigGopherFan said:
I never said he couldn't sign 3 star guys out of state you idiot. Try reading a little closer next time. Since you're probably too lazy, here is exactly what I stated: "but none that even scratch a high 3-star ranking, much less a 4-star." What I was communicating was that he signed plenty of out-of-state kids, but none seem to be very highly regarded. They are 3 stars according to Rivals, but not very highly rated.
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Most of the guys mentioned have some pretty good BCS offers. So I would consider them "very highly regarded". That stuff means more to me than if a guy is rated a 5.6 or 5.8 by rivals.
 

High quality in state guys can come for a lot of reasons that don't matter to out state guys:
- Dad went to / played for U
- Loyalty to U / favorite team
- Close to home / girlfriend, parents can attend games
- Hope to live & work in town if not NFL material
- Want to be a local hero, part of turnaround, 1st RB in 50 years
...
I'm surprised that anyone would be surprised that it is harder to land high quality out state guys. Wins will land those guys. Even with wins you have to overcome the above factors from THEIR hometown.

Show me how Jerry Kill does out of state after going 9-3 and then I'll pass judgement.
 

Gopher Gold said:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/123963/jamel-harbison

What were you saying?

I think its pretty well known that Harbison is at least a high 3-star, close to 4-star. He is considered by most of recruiting sites to be a great pick-up for the U and someone who could contribute immediately.
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Couple things. We were referring to Rivals.com ratings, not ESPN.

Second, being ranked an 80 and a 4 star seems to make little sense. I was under the impression that 4 star guys on ESPN were in the high 80s and low 90s, not in the low 80s.

Third, having signed a kid who is the 11th best player....IN HIS STATE does not qualify as being highly regarded, sorry. I consider guys to be highly regarded when they are least ranked nationally for their position. "But Clemson and Vandy wanted him!" Sure, Clemson and Vandy offered the kid a scholarship, but that does not automatically mean he was going to be some dynamic ACC/SEC player. Maybe they wanted him for special teams or saw him as a project that may be a role player someday. Minnesota is expecting him to be an impact player, which is different.

Finally, I'm looking at the class of out-of-state signees as a whole. Nit-picking one player here and there and debating whether or not he is an impactful recruit does not elevate the entire class of recruits coming to Minnesota. Let's just face it, Kill's out of state recruiting was pretty bad compared to his peers. Say what you want, but according to most recruiting databases, Indiana, Northwestern and Purdue had better classes than Minnesota. Bottom line.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Bottom line.
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Bottom line won't be known until this class reaches the end of their careers. But your whole post was a desperate reach. Harbison is a coveted, highly regarded player - just as much as McDonald, Pirsig, or Hayes. He just comes from a state with a deeper talent pool.
 




BigGopherFan said:
Bottom line.
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Bottom Line is that I trust Coach Kill and his Assistant's ability to evaluate talent more than I do any of the evaluators at Rivals/Scout/ESPN and especially an Internet Quarterback like BigGopherFan. Knowing what is needed for their offensive and defensive schemes and their ability to fill those needs is what is important and I have faith in our coach's ability to find and develop the necessary talent. Some people can't wait for a punch bowl to be put out at the party so that they can piss in it. Give this staff some time and a chance!
 

BigGopherFan said:
Couple things. We were referring to Rivals.com ratings, not ESPN.

Second, being ranked an 80 and a 4 star seems to make little sense. I was under the impression that 4 star guys on ESPN were in the high 80s and low 90s, not in the low 80s.

Third, having signed a kid who is the 11th best player....IN HIS STATE does not qualify as being highly regarded, sorry. I consider guys to be highly regarded when they are least ranked nationally for their position. "But Clemson and Vandy wanted him!" Sure, Clemson and Vandy offered the kid a scholarship, but that does not automatically mean he was going to be some dynamic ACC/SEC player. Maybe they wanted him for special teams or saw him as a project that may be a role player someday. Minnesota is expecting him to be an impact player, which is different.

Finally, I'm looking at the class of out-of-state signees as a whole. Nit-picking one player here and there and debating whether or not he is an impactful recruit does not elevate the entire class of recruits coming to Minnesota. Let's just face it, Kill's out of state recruiting was pretty bad compared to his peers. Say what you want, but according to most recruiting databases, Indiana, Northwestern and Purdue had better classes than Minnesota. Bottom line.
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"we are using rivals ratings so your counterpoint doesn't count RAWR" lol.

In football, high 80s are the top players in the country, 80 is the cutoff for 4 stars in ESPN i believe. Now, if you were talking basketball, you would be correct. And lastly, I doubt any team would offer a kid solely based on hoping they contribute on special teams. They recruit athletes they can develop and hopefully they work out on special teams as well.

Also, it is clear that recruiting rankings mean everything. We might as well not even play the season since our class is rated near the bottom of the Big Ten. We have no hope of ever doing better.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Third, having signed a kid who is the 11th best player....IN HIS STATE does not qualify as being highly regarded, sorry.
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Here's #'s 11 and 12 from Texas. I guess we shouldn't consider them highly regarded:

DE Javonte Magee San Antonio, Texas
Sam Houston
6'5" 262 N/A
4 stars
5.9 7
Baylor
OL Kennedy Estelle Pearland, Texas
Dawson
6'7" 300 5.2
4 stars
5.9 8
Texas
 



For years we've been preaching "we need to keep the top in-state guys here". In one of the most talented high school classes in MN in a long time, we landed all the top recruits but one. Now, it's "our out-state recruits aren't good enough".
 


GophersInIowa said:
For years we've been preaching "we need to keep the top in-state guys here". In one of the most talented high school classes in MN in a long time, we landed all the top recruits but one. Now, it's "our out-state recruits aren't good enough".
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+1
 

GophersInIowa said:
For years we've been preaching "we need to keep the top in-state guys here". In one of the most talented high school classes in MN in a long time, we landed all the top recruits but one. Now, it's "our out-state recruits aren't good enough".
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Keeping the top instate guys is vital to sustained success. The main problem we have in Minnesota from a football recruiting standpoint is there is a shortage of elite level talent. The typical recruits from this state can turn into very good players and make up the core of your roster but in general you have to find those game changers, especially skill guys, from somewhere else.

The hope is that if Kill can truly close the boarders that when that elite talent comes along he will be able to do a better job them some of his predecessors of keeping that player at home.
 

I don't see what's so bad about this class. You can go back 10 years through Rivals and this class is pretty comparable to most, other than the 2008 class. You can probably count the number of 4-star recruits from out of state that Mason had on one hand. Brewster had a bunch, but there's at least one that flopped (probably more) for every one that panned out.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't see what's so bad about this class. You can go back 10 years through Rivals and this class is pretty comparable to most, other than the 2008 class. You can probably count the number of 4-star recruits from out of state that Mason had on one hand. Brewster had a bunch, but there's at least one that flopped (probably more) for every one that panned out.
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I agree, keep the players recruited in the program and develop them, this class may be better than any we have seen in the last decade.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't see what's so bad about this class. You can go back 10 years through Rivals and this class is pretty comparable to most, other than the 2008 class. You can probably count the number of 4-star recruits from out of state that Mason had on one hand. Brewster had a bunch, but there's at least one that flopped (probably more) for every one that panned out.
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Mason had 3 non-Minnesota 4-stars: Paris Hamilton (JuCo), Laurence Maroney, and Alex Daniels. The funny thing is that he only had 1 Minnesota 4-star: Anthony Jacobs. Of course, actually securing someone like Dominique Byrd (USC), Trevor Laws (Notre Dame), Lydon Murtha (Nebraska), Brandon Robinson (Boston College), Rafael Eubanks (Iowa), Joey Hiben (Notre Dame), Walker Ashley (Notre Dame), Jordon McMichael (Boston College), or Matt Carufel (Notre Dame) might've actually required some work, and that's just too hard.

In-state recruiting of Rivals 4/5-stars, just for fun:

Mason: 1-for-10 (Jacobs, who actually signed under Brewster)
Brewster: 3-for-7 (Maresh, Edwards, Gjere)
Kill: 0-for-1 (though Davidson shouldn't really count as a MN recruit)
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't see what's so bad about this class. You can go back 10 years through Rivals and this class is pretty comparable to most, other than the 2008 class. You can probably count the number of 4-star recruits from out of state that Mason had on one hand. Brewster had a bunch, but there's at least one that flopped (probably more) for every one that panned out.
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There is nothing "wrong" with this class. It is a big deep class that fills some holes on the roster depth wise and has some players that people locally are excited about in terms of their potential (Nelson, McDonald, Pirsig, Hayes...etc). Nationally it is seen as a below average class by comparison to the other schools in the Big Ten. Doesn't mean they are going to be right just a fact that the people who rank recruits for a living don't think that highly of the crop we are bringing in relation to the other schools in the conference.
 

It's not a mind blowing class, but I don't recall a time outside of Brewster's 1st class where we got numerous 4-star out of state recruits ever, really. Let alone ones that either actually made it to campus, or actually made an impact once on campus.

Kill accomplished what needed to be done for THIS class IMO. He got in-state kids buying in. That is very important. Secondly, as has already been documented, he's increased the speed on the team. Those are two very important aspects that needed to be addressed with this class and it looks like mission accomplished.

It is interesting though, to see how much variety their is between the services on our recruits. ESPN seems to really like some of our guys, but then the same guys are kinda ignored on the other services. As long as someone sees the potential, I suppose that's still some form of confirmation of what Kill's staff might see in some of these kids.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Mason had 3 non-Minnesota 4-stars: Paris Hamilton (JuCo), Laurence Maroney, and Alex Daniels. The funny thing is that he only had 1 Minnesota 4-star: Anthony Jacobs. Of course, actually securing someone like Dominique Byrd (USC), Trevor Laws (Notre Dame), Lydon Murtha (Nebraska), Brandon Robinson (Boston College), Rafael Eubanks (Iowa), Joey Hiben (Notre Dame), Walker Ashley (Notre Dame), Jordon McMichael (Boston College), or Matt Carufel (Notre Dame) might've actually required some work, and that's just too hard.

In-state recruiting of Rivals 4/5-stars, just for fun:

Mason: 1-for-10 (Jacobs, who actually signed under Brewster)
Brewster: 3-for-7 (Maresh, Edwards, Gjere)
Kill: 0-for-1 (though Davidson shouldn't really count as a MN recruit)
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Just trying to help the Kill stat here but weren't Pirsig and McDonald once rated 4 star recruits but dropped during the season?

And Mason also had a 5 star commit in Brandon Owens who had that terrible shoulder injury that ended his career.
 

Here's where the whole Scout vs. Rivals debate comes full circle. Owens was a 5-star on Scout, but a 3-star on Rivals.
 

BigGopherFan said:
having signed a kid who is the 11th best player....IN HIS STATE does not qualify as being highly regarded, sorry.
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I know some others have alluded to this, but let's take a closer look at some states' #11 prospects (rankings according to Rivals):

FL #11 prospect: Chris Black, WR, #58 overall nationally, Alabama commit, offers from Auburn, UF, FSU, Miami, Notre Dame, and many others

TX #11 prospect: LaDarrell McNeil, S, #86 overall nationally, Tennesee commit, offers from Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, A&M, USC, and many others

CA #11 prospect: Tee Shepard, CB, #76 overall nationally, Notre Dame commit, offers from Alabama, Auburn, Miami, UCLA, USC, and many others

OH #11 prospect: Greg McMullen, DE, #192 overall nationally, Nebraska commit, offers from Notre Dame, Ohio St., MSU, and several others

GA #11 prospect: Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, #149 overall nationally, uncommitted, offers from Alabama, Auburn, UF, FSU, Georgia, Michigan, Nebraska, and USC, among many others

AL #11 prospect: Kwon Alexander, LB, uncommitted, finalists are Alabama, Auburn, and LSU, also holds offers from UF, FSU, Nebraska, Ohio St., and Oregon among many others

PA #11 prospect: Drew Harris, RB, VA Tech commit, offers from Georgia, Miami, Penn St., and Pitt, among many others

LA #11 prospect: Darion Monroe, CB, A&M commit, holds at least 6 other BCS offers


So, in summation: why should anyone take you or anything you say seriously? I mean, 95% of your posts are so terrible that it's laughable.
 

dpodoll68 said:
So, in summation: why should anyone take you or anything you say seriously? I mean, 95% of your posts are so terrible that it's laughable.
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Well...you've seen how vigorously he defends his positions when he gets called out, right?

Typical "hit-and-run" post from BGF.
 

Analysis from Rivals.com about who our top commit is and who our "sleeper" recruit is:

I think the headliner of Minnesota's class is QB Phillip Nelson. Think he could end up being a three-year starter there. As for a sleeper, I'd say watch duke Anywanu. He just turned 17, so he is a year or two younger than most kids in this class and is just starting to realize his potential
 

It wasn't worthy of a new thread:
Spring Practice Tour stop 7 done #Gophers As expected Minn the B1G team that has made the most progress from spring 2011 to spring 2012
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Spring Practice Tour stop 7 #Gophers MarQueis Gray @goldengopherqb5 and James Gillum look like 2 players you can build an O around and win
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Spg Prac Tour stop 7 #Gophers Much like most teams rebuilding they have made more progress at the skill positions (except WR ) than O/D line
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Sph Prac Tour stop 7 #Gophers.Practice was physical much like Mich & Neb practice. It's very clear that the players now no J Kill's routine
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dpodoll68 said:
Not really; you don't become a BCS head coach (at LSU, nonetheless) without knowing a little about football. Whether you agree with his opinion is a matter of debate, but there's no debate that he has a base of knowledge from which to draw.
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Brewster
 

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