Geno Crandall

[Gophers7633]

Over hyped. Last 10 years averaged a #6 seed. Where were they ranked in those 10 seasons when the season started? Didn’t live up to the hype.

2009 Preseason rank: #10 - Lost in S16
2010 Preseason rank: RV - Lost in R32
2011 Preseason rank: #12 - Lost in R32
2012 Preseason rank: #23 - Lost in R32
2013 Preseason rank: #21 - Lost in R32
2014 Preseason rank: #15 - Lost in R32
2015 Preseason rank: #13 - Lost in E8
2016 Preseason rank: #9 - Lost in S16
2017 Preseason rank: #14 - Lost in NC
2018 Preseason rank: #18 - Lost in S16

Last 4 years, they've exceed expectations. 2010 exceeded expectations. Being ranked in the 20's preseason and losing in R32 is playing to your expectation. So in 7 of the last 10 years they exceeded or played to their preseason rank. You're lost, dude.

 

[Gophers7633]

Ok, so for 10 seasons where they basically have had a bye to get into the tourney. They won just 1 game in 5 years, 2 games in 3 years and 2 years where they have gone farther. Not really an impressive record for an”Elite National Team”...


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If you add up their tournament wins over that time frame, I bet it's in the top 10. Take that as you will.

 

[builtbadgers]

I do not endorse forcing kids out and i do not believe RP did this. With more focus on 4 out he likely gave him a minutes projection and the kid decided on a program with a better chance at playing time. No big deal. Zero evidence that he was good enough to play much.

 

[Gophers7633]

Selection... I don't claim to have anywhere near the knowledge of basketball stats that you have, but you should at least check them before you try to ridicule someone for not knowing anything.
Gonzaga qualified 14 out of the last 18 years as an automatic bid!. Also, Gonzaga schedules some good non-conference opponents because they typically do not play many in their conference. Going back through the years, their non-conference games are not much more difficult than a typical B1G conference schedule and they consitently do not win a majority of them.

Let's just go with the last 11 years and their record versus top twenty five teams: underlined teams are in the Tourney
2007-08: 1-5 beat StM, lost to Wash St, Tenn, Memphis, StM, Davidson
2008-09: 3-3 beat Tenn (twice), StM, lost to uConn, Memphis, NC
2009-10: 0-3 beat nobody, lost to MSU, Duke, Syracuse
2010-11: 2-5 beat StJohns, Baylor, lost to SDSU, Kstate, Ill, ND, Baylor, BYU
2011-12: 1-1 beat StM, Lost to OhioSt
2012-13: 1-2 beat OKst, lost to Ill, Butler
2013-14: 0-2 beat nobody, lost to Memphis, Arizona
2014-15: 1-2 beat SMU, lost to Arizona, Duke
2015-16: 3-3 beat uConn, Setonhall, Utah, lost to Texas A&M, Arizona, SMU
2016-17: 6-1 beat IowaSt, Arizona, StM (three time), WVirg, lost to NC
2017-18: 2-2 beat StM, OhioSt, lost to FL, Nova

Like I said before, Gonzaga has been a good team, but a lot of it has to do with the conference that they are in and the ease they have in getting into the Tourney. Their non-conference record is nowhere near among the best in the country.

Out of those 49 games they only played 10 at home. I'd say winning as many as they have is pretty impressive.

 

[GoZags]

Over the last 4 seasons, they've probably been the best program in on the West Coast. They definitely would have been the best team in the Pac 12 last year and the year before IMO.

Thanks for your effort G7633 .... nicely done.

Here's the bottom line, in my opinion. During the current 20 year NCAA tourney streak ... the Zags HAD to win the WCC conference tourney to get in 3 times. The other 17 times their "resume" i.e. RPI/KenPom/Sagarin more than qualified them as an at large. However, in 2007 they suspended their best player for the season (arrested on drug charges ... would have been a 1 game suspension at Washington or Washington State) and they went 23-11 and lost to Indiana in the Round of 64. In 2011 they went 25-10 and had to get into the dance by winning the tourney. As an 11 seed they beat St. John's by 15 before getting drilled by BYU (not in the WCC yet) in the Round of 32. In '16 HBO did a mini series on the Zags "March to Madness" and there was more drama than they were looking for, as the Zags (28-8) HAD to win the WCC to get in. And in the dance (11 seed) they beat Seton Hall by 15, beat Utah by 23 and narrowly lost in the Sweet 16 to Syracuse (and the NCAA officially admitted they blew a crucial call at the end).

So for those that have said Gonzaga wouldn't have their "streak" if they played in the Pac ... I think that's correct ... but they'd probably have a stat like making the dance 17 out of the last 20 (and doing well in the dance). But the fact of the matter is winning the WCC was crucial 3 times.

One other thing ... I'd referenced the 3 Zags and 3 other players who've been Top 5 All Americans/Top 5 Academic All Americans the same season. Gonzaga takes pride in those types of things as well (and is currently T#1 (with Holy Cross and Nova) ... out of 351 D1 schools) in APR.
http://www.gozags.com/genrel/052418aaa.html

 

[cjbfbp]

2009 Preseason rank: #10 - Lost in S16
2010 Preseason rank: RV - Lost in R32
2011 Preseason rank: #12 - Lost in R32
2012 Preseason rank: #23 - Lost in R32
2013 Preseason rank: #21 - Lost in R32
2014 Preseason rank: #15 - Lost in R32
2015 Preseason rank: #13 - Lost in E8
2016 Preseason rank: #9 - Lost in S16
2017 Preseason rank: #14 - Lost in NC
2018 Preseason rank: #18 - Lost in S16

Last 4 years, they've exceed expectations. 2010 exceeded expectations. Being ranked in the 20's preseason and losing in R32 is playing to your expectation. So in 7 of the last 10 years they exceeded or played to their preseason rank. You're lost, dude.

Correct. You made the argument well. Sometimes Gonzaga is overrated late in the season because their ranking soars due to an outstanding W-L record and having so few challengers in their conference capable of knocking them down a bit. When Gonzaga does underachieve, that tends to be because they are very highly ranked. I think we could say confidently that Gonzaga is almost always a top 20 team but very rarely a top 5 team.

 

[cjbfbp]

I do not endorse forcing kids out and i do not believe RP did this. With more focus on 4 out he likely gave him a minutes projection and the kid decided on a program with a better chance at playing time. No big deal. Zero evidence that he was good enough to play much.

What you described sounds like a soft firing that is done all the time in the business world. The employee has a talk with the bosses and they say "I don't see a real future for you here" and the person decides to resign. Sometimes the decision is softened by a buyout (for highly compensated employees) or granting unemployment compensation (for others).

 

[GoZags]

... Gonzaga is almost always a top 20 team but very rarely a top 5 team.

Bingo.

 

[Gophers7633]

Correct. You made the argument well. Sometimes Gonzaga is overrated late in the season because their ranking soars due to an outstanding W-L record and having so few challengers in their conference capable of knocking them down a bit. When Gonzaga does underachieve, that tends to be because they are very highly ranked. I think we could say confidently that Gonzaga is almost always a top 20 team but very rarely a top 5 team.

They've been a top 5 team, twice this decade, they lost in the R32 and made the NC, all things considered, that's pretty good. Also, I tend to think that what happens in the tournament shouldn't be an indication on how your perceived. The reason being, Nova's best team the last 4 years lost in the R32, and their worst won the NC. Nova has either won the tournament or lost in the R32, that's pretty crazy when you think about it. Winning in a single elimination tournament is hard. Gonzaga has only underachieved one time the past decade, relative to their seed. That's insanely good, which is why that narrative makes no sense.

 

[GoZags]

One (hopefully final) post here ... until we meet in the post season ....

I won't link the 29 minute podcast, but here's one reaction to what Geno had to stay. Doesn't look like he was intentionally leading on the Gopher faithful, but that it was a gut wrenching decision for him. FWIW I'd like to see a GU/Kentucky championship game in April.

Yesterday, 10:02 PM #132
Zag for Life
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I hope this town goes out of their way to make Geno feel at home after hearing his description of sleepless nights over giving up his childhood dream. The Gophers needed and valued him. I loved his vision of what the Zags could be next year. If Few can widen the rotation we could play all out defense every game.

 

[bizzle22]

It makes too much sense to force out your only healthy center? I'm sorry, that argument doesn't hold a lot of weight for me. The only other center on the roster is a true freshman who's injured in Oturu. Curry is a power forward and is also coming back from injury.

The timing is the part that makes it obvious. It might be a little less transparent if they were announced right after the season like most transfers are. But not many transfers are announced in June. Most guys want time to pick a new school and possibly be able to enroll in the summer. Stull, Carr, Willis, and probably 95% of other transfers are announced in April. But to have Matz transfer so late, and it just so happens Geno met with Pitino before Matz’s transfer and then announced he was grad transferring a couple days later. There is no way that is just a coincidence

 

[alchemy2u]

Over the last 4 seasons, they've probably been the best program in on the West Coast. They definitely would have been the best team in the Pac 12 last year and the year before IMO.

Nice NDSU logic... it is a stretch to claim that any team would win a P5 conference when they don’t have to play the P5 schedule. For example: The game to game physical grind of playing in the B1G take a huge toll on a team that a weak conference school doesn’t have to deal with. Please just admit that they are a result of their circumstances. They are a good team in a weak conference, I saw one analysis say they were by far the strongest team versus their conference in the country. That gives them tourney appearances, good season W/L records, improved recruiting, etc... they have played 8 games versus #1 team in the country since 1995, have not won a game. At least the Gophers have beat #1 Indiana in 2013, and played 5 games versus #1 ranked teams since 2001.


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[Gophers7633]

Nice NDSU logic... it is a stretch to claim that any team would win a P5 conference when they don’t have to play the P5 schedule. For example: The game to game physical grind of playing in the B1G take a huge toll on a team that a weak conference school doesn’t have to deal with. Please just admit that they are a result of their circumstances. They are a good team in a weak conference, I saw one analysis say they were by far the strongest team versus their conference in the country. That gives them tourney appearances, good season W/L records, improved recruiting, etc... they have played 8 games versus #1 team in the country since 1995, have not won a game. At least the Gophers have beat #1 Indiana in 2013, and played 5 games versus #1 ranked teams since 2001.


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No, I'm not going to admit it because it's not right. There are a TON of teams that play in mid major leagues, why is Gonzaga the only team that has done what they've done? Because they have good players, and a HOF coach, that's why. Cool stat about playing that many #1 ranked teams, I'd bet they got to play NONE of them at home. Kinda makes it more difficult.

I can't believe a lost commit to Gonzaga has this many people triggered that they would talk **** about them. Embarrassing as a fellow Gophers fan.

 

[WanderingGopher]

One (hopefully final) post here ... until we meet in the post season ....

I won't link the 29 minute podcast, but here's one reaction to what Geno had to stay. Doesn't look like he was intentionally leading on the Gopher faithful, but that it was a gut wrenching decision for him. FWIW I'd like to see a GU/Kentucky championship game in April.

We know, you moron, we have listened to Crandall interviews on this subject long before you, and have been following this transfer possibility for more than 2 years, literally (there are prior threads on Crandall that may be even longer than this one). You guys are the Johnny-come-lately here. He got pressured once the possibility of grad transfer got real, made an easy decision harder than it should’ve been, and made the wrong choice. Is what it is, and we move on. Maybe he’ll fail a class (wouldn’t that be hilarious) and none of this will matter.

Gonzaga typically is the cute little underdog I’m rooting for when they play the blue bloods, but by god I sure hope they (and Kentucky) fall well short of the FF this year. Last thing most of us want to see, and I’m pretty confident we won’t have to worry about it.

 

[alchemy2u]

No, I'm not going to admit it because it's not right. There are a TON of teams that play in mid major leagues, why is Gonzaga the only team that has done what they've done? Because they have good players, and a HOF coach, that's why. Cool stat about playing that many #1 ranked teams, I'd bet they got to play NONE of them at home. Kinda makes it more difficult.

I can't believe a lost commit to Gonzaga has this many people triggered that they would talk **** about them. Embarrassing as a fellow Gophers fan.

I am not disparaging Gonzaga, just not putting them on a pedestal like so many others. I was just trying to use a little more info to counteract the “Zags are God’s” narrative that infested this thread. It is embarrassing how quickly our “fans” put down the Gophers and raise any other “successful” program to mythical proportions. I could care less about Gonzaga. As for Geno, I hear he was a good player and could have added depth, it feels like he played us and our players, we will be fine.

Also, they are like NDSU... the ones that take advantage of their situation.

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[GoZags]

Also, they are like NDSU... the ones that take advantage of their situation.

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Mark Few's first day on campus (as a $1,500 a year grad assistant) he was pulled aside by the campus elders and told "You will never win this league and that's okay. Just don't finish last. Last place isn't tolerated around here".

When Dan Monson took the Minnesota job (at the start of the Zag's "cute little run") Gonzaga's recruiting budget of $8,000 a year ranked last in the WCC.

It wasn't until the 3rd of the "back to back to back" Sweet 16's (and beyond ... '99-'01) that Gonzaga finally purchased high speed video equipment for scouting purposes. Those cost $25k and until then the old fashioned regular VCRs worked just fine.

Monsen, Few and the 3rd roommate Billy Grier (while they were assistant coaches) set out to change the paradigm.

They pulled it off, and it's my opinion that GU's best days on the floor still lie ahead ... i.e. they're finally getting Top 25 recruiting classes.

Let me know when NDSU plays in the National Championship game of any major sport .... or gets on-campus home and homes with North Carolina.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I am not disparaging Gonzaga, just not putting them on a pedestal like so many others. I was just trying to use a little more info to counteract the “Zags are God’s” narrative that infested this thread. It is embarrassing how quickly our “fans” put down the Gophers and raise any other “successful” program to mythical proportions. I could care less about Gonzaga. As for Geno, I hear he was a good player and could have added depth, it feels like he played us and our players, we will be fine.

Also, they are like NDSU... the ones that take advantage of their situation.

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The NDSU comparison is horrible. Gonzaga has made it to the big boys national championship game, having to beat tournament caliber teams in every round of the tournament. NDSU has one a lower subdivision and beaten average FBS teams in early season regular season games. You can minimize the WCC titles all you want, but they've been in the Sweet 16 four years in a row, and that is the same Sweet 16 that Kentucky and Duke are playing to get in. If Pitino did that, we'd have broken ground on the statute already.

 

[WanderingGopher]

It is embarrassing how quickly our “fans” put down the Gophers and raise any other “successful” program to mythical proportions. I could care less about Gonzaga.

^This. We have some weak-@ss fans showing out in this thread, that’s for sure (some are pure trolls, but some just pansies). It’s embarrassing.

 

[alchemy2u]

The NDSU comparison is horrible. Gonzaga has made it to the big boys national championship game, having to beat tournament caliber teams in every round of the tournament. NDSU has one a lower subdivision and beaten average FBS teams in early season regular season games. You can minimize the WCC titles all you want, but they've been in the Sweet 16 four years in a row, and that is the same Sweet 16 that Kentucky and Duke are playing to get in. If Pitino did that, we'd have broken ground on the statute already.

The comparison was for the WCC titles and thus their ticket to the tournament. The prior poster had asked why no one else has had the same type of domination playing weaker competition and that is where NDSU came in. I agree, the Zags eventually play with the big boys. I assume Gonzaga will be putting up a statute of Few, or some other tribute.


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[bisonation]

The NDSU comparison is horrible. Gonzaga has made it to the big boys national championship game, having to beat tournament caliber teams in every round of the tournament. NDSU has one a lower subdivision and beaten average FBS teams in early season regular season games. You can minimize the WCC titles all you want, but they've been in the Sweet 16 four years in a row, and that is the same Sweet 16 that Kentucky and Duke are playing to get in. If Pitino did that, we'd have broken ground on the statute already.

NDSU basketball beat #5 Oklahoma actually and lost to this Gonzaga team and kept it within 6-7 last few minutes..

wait.. the NDSU football to Gonzaga Basketball isn't correct.

 

[Gophers7633]

I am not disparaging Gonzaga, just not putting them on a pedestal like so many others. I was just trying to use a little more info to counteract the “Zags are God’s” narrative that infested this thread. It is embarrassing how quickly our “fans” put down the Gophers and raise any other “successful” program to mythical proportions. I could care less about Gonzaga. As for Geno, I hear he was a good player and could have added depth, it feels like he played us and our players, we will be fine.

Also, they are like NDSU... the ones that take advantage of their situation.

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I'm not one to mince words or be a homer. The Zags are a great program, despite playing in their crappy conference. You claimed they were overrated every year, when the facts dont come close to backing that up. Also, I'm not putting the gophers down just pointing out the facts there again. I hope to God that we turn our program around for good.

 

[Gophers7633]

^This. We have some weak-@ss fans showing out in this thread, that’s for sure (some are pure trolls, but some just pansies). It’s embarrassing.

It's embarrassing how a kid committing to them can cause so many people to look like fools.

 

[WanderingGopher]

It's embarrassing how a kid committing to them can cause so many people to look like fools.

You're right in that you were one of the posters my comments were directed toward. Nut up, man. Your "woe is us" pansy attitude does not help the program.

 

[Gophers7633]

You're right in that you were one of the posters my comments were directed toward. Nut up, man. Your "woe is us" pansy attitude does not help the program.

That's not my attitude towards the program. We've sucked for most my life. I'd love for us to be relevant on a consistent basis. I don't feel sorry for the Gophers in the least if that's what you think.

 

[BleedGopher]

Per Shooter, Gophers finished third for Geno:

Former DeLaSalle point guard Geno Crandall, who last week chose Gonzaga for his final season after transferring from North Dakota, narrowed choices to the Zags and Xavier. The Gophers were also in the hunt.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/07/07/charley-walters-mauers-getting-ready-for-child-no-3/

Go Gophers!!

 

[Gophers7633]

Duplicate

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

The timing is the part that makes it obvious. It might be a little less transparent if they were announced right after the season like most transfers are. But not many transfers are announced in June. Most guys want time to pick a new school and possibly be able to enroll in the summer. Stull, Carr, Willis, and probably 95% of other transfers are announced in April. But to have Matz transfer so late, and it just so happens Geno met with Pitino before Matz’s transfer and then announced he was grad transferring a couple days later. There is no way that is just a coincidence

Or Matz was graduating and decided he wanted to leave, and told Pitino that before he met with Crandall.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

What you described sounds like a soft firing that is done all the time in the business world. The employee has a talk with the bosses and they say "I don't see a real future for you here" and the person decides to resign. Sometimes the decision is softened by a buyout (for highly compensated employees) or granting unemployment compensation (for others).

Or maybe it was the truth being told to a kid with limited eligibility to play left. Information that Matz was thankful to receive so that he could find a place where he could actually get minutes for once.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Or maybe it was the truth being told to a kid with limited eligibility to play left. Information that Matz was thankful to receive so that he could find a place where he could actually get minutes for once.

It still doesn't explain why the Gophers would take him and his scholarship on if he couldn't play. Did Richard take him sight unseen? Did he completely misjudge his ability? There's no angle that this looks good from. For a coach whose point of emphasis needed to be roster management, now the biggest roster management flub of his tenure.

 

[theczar]

Matz can be an off the bench big...at least the high major coaches who contacted him after he left the u think so....