Gach, Robbins waiver updates from Marcus

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Biggsohnasty said:
I don't understand why people think if a player has to sit for a year, they are being punished. If a player needs to transfer so badly out of the program that he's at, that he's willing to spend a season not playing, then by all means, transfer out.

But the culture of college hoops continues to trend towards guys constantly leaving and rosters turning over like crazy. I'm all for kids wanting to challenge themselves at a higher level, but I don't see how sitting a year and developing in the program is a bad thing.

And if the threat of having to sit for a year cuts down on some of the guys who just want to be recruited again or are leaving because that's just the way kids think now, I think the sport is far and away better.
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Some kids actually want to sit and learn under a great coach, get stronger, learn the game, pursue a high academic path without jock classes.
 

builtbadgers said:
Some kids actually want to sit and learn under a great coach, get stronger, learn the game, pursue a high academic path without jock classes.
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I think we can agree that this is not the case with the 2 waivers we're seeking. They will both start and we will be much worse off without them.
 

howeda7 said:
I think we can agree that this is not the case with the 2 waivers we're seeking. They will both start and we will be much worse off without them.
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Agree 100 %. They both came here for immediate playing time whether or not that is the best thing for them.
 

builtbadgers said:
Agree 100 %. They both came here for immediate playing time whether or not that is the best thing for them.
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Appears immediate playing time is best for both of them. BADGER always says the kid makes the decisions about what is best. Now BADGER is determining "best".
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I realize we aren't going backwards on this but I also felt there should be two reasons for a "free transfer".

1. If the coach left for whatever reason as this is most definitely part of the reason a kids picks the school.
2. If the kid graduates and still has eligibility because in theory he/she is pursuing additional academic opportunity.

Take out all the subjectivity of the waiver process and things would have been so much better.
 


Free Transfers? Umm....No

That would be total Chaos.

But let's say a kid goes to an FCS school and tears it up. Sets Freshman scoring records and basically outgrows the league and decides he/she wants to transfer to a Division 1 school. Why should they have to sit? Or somebody does the same thing in the Mountain West and decides they would be better off getting more exposure at a B1G or ACC school. They shouldn't have to sit!

Here's the creative kicker. Small schools losing a player in this kind of scenario get an exemption. They can bring in a transfer student who will be immediately eligible to replace the one they lost. This would give some 4 or 5 star flameout a chance to redeem themselves at a school needing an influx of talent. Everyone wins!

But a free transfer for everyone? Hell no! especially to the highly recruited kid's who go to Power 5 schools straight out of high school.

Maker Makur would make an interesting case if my rule was in affect, but that is a real outlier.
 

Otis said:
Free Transfers? Umm....No

That would be total Chaos.

But let's say a kid goes to an FCS school and tears it up. Sets Freshman scoring records and basically outgrows the league and decides he/she wants to transfer to a Division 1 school. Why should they have to sit? Or somebody does the same thing in the Mountain West and decides they would be better off getting more exposure at a B1G or ACC school. They shouldn't have to sit!

Here's the creative kicker. Small schools losing a player in this kind of scenario get an exemption. They can bring in a transfer student who will be immediately eligible to replace the one they lost. This would give some 4 or 5 star flameout a chance to redeem themselves at a school needing an influx of talent. Everyone wins!

But a free transfer for everyone? Hell no! especially to the highly recruited kid's who go to Power 5 schools straight out of high school.

Maker Makur would make an interesting case if my rule was in affect, but that is a real outlier.
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I’m not following for who you think should be ineligible for a no sit transfer.
 

golfing18now said:
I realize we aren't going backwards on this but I also felt there should be two reasons for a "free transfer".

1. If the coach left for whatever reason as this is most definitely part of the reason a kids picks the school.
2. If the kid graduates and still has eligibility because in theory he/she is pursuing additional academic opportunity.

Take out all the subjectivity of the waiver process and things would have been so much better.
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Great post. This is what 90 % of coaches want, the free pass if the coach leaves for any reason or a grad transfer.
 




Biggsohnasty said:
I don't understand why people think if a player has to sit for a year, they are being punished. If a player needs to transfer so badly out of the program that he's at, that he's willing to spend a season not playing, then by all means, transfer out.

But the culture of college hoops continues to trend towards guys constantly leaving and rosters turning over like crazy. I'm all for kids wanting to challenge themselves at a higher level, but I don't see how sitting a year and developing in the program is a bad thing.

And if the threat of having to sit for a year cuts down on some of the guys who just want to be recruited again or are leaving because that's just the way kids think now, I think the sport is far and away better.
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If coaches are required to do the same, then I agree. If coaches are free to move without penalty (or "benefit" as you frame it) then the kids should be as well.
 

Otis said:
Free Transfers? Umm....No

That would be total Chaos.

But let's say a kid goes to an FCS school and tears it up. Sets Freshman scoring records and basically outgrows the league and decides he/she wants to transfer to a Division 1 school. Why should they have to sit? Or somebody does the same thing in the Mountain West and decides they would be better off getting more exposure at a B1G or ACC school. They shouldn't have to sit!

Here's the creative kicker. Small schools losing a player in this kind of scenario get an exemption. They can bring in a transfer student who will be immediately eligible to replace the one they lost. This would give some 4 or 5 star flameout a chance to redeem themselves at a school needing an influx of talent. Everyone wins!

But a free transfer for everyone? Hell no! especially to the highly recruited kid's who go to Power 5 schools straight out of high school.

Maker Makur would make an interesting case if my rule was in affect, but that is a real outlier.
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Yep also totally lost. So who determines who is "a big school or small school" Gonzaga a small school since they are in the WCC and Northwestern a big school since they are in the B1G? And once this cycle starts it is literally the free waiver system you said you didnt want ha.

I do think the grad transfer thing is a joke, 99.5% of guys dont do that to actually get a degree, they just make up something so they can play right away. I think whatever way you do it, it needs to be much clearer. Either everyone gets one or no one does. I am totally fine with no one gets it unless your coach leaves/gets fired then your whole team has free transfers going out. Coming in would be a question, if say Pitino got canned and we had 8 guys leave but any transfer coming in had to sit and we are stuck with 5 guys then what? At that point you almost have to say any team who changes coaches gets free in and out for 1 year.
 

leib0039 said:
Yep also totally lost. So who determines who is "a big school or small school" Gonzaga a small school since they are in the WCC and Northwestern a big school since they are in the B1G? And once this cycle starts it is literally the free waiver system you said you didnt want ha.

I do think the grad transfer thing is a joke, 99.5% of guys dont do that to actually get a degree, they just make up something so they can play right away. I think whatever way you do it, it needs to be much clearer. Either everyone gets one or no one does. I am totally fine with no one gets it unless your coach leaves/gets fired then your whole team has free transfers going out. Coming in would be a question, if say Pitino got canned and we had 8 guys leave but any transfer coming in had to sit and we are stuck with 5 guys then what? At that point you almost have to say any team who changes coaches gets free in and out for 1 year.
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Every grad transfer i know of got a graduate degree. Guess it matters where you went and what you were after from the beginning.
 

builtbadgers said:
Every grad transfer i know of got a graduate degree. Guess it matters where you went and what you were after from the beginning.
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All graduate degree programs are not equal. It can be as easy as doing a few classes/papers or it can entail 3 years of full time research, writing a thesis and getting published in peer reviewed journals.
 



alchemy2u said:
All graduate degree programs are not equal. It can be as easy as doing a few classes/papers or it can entail 3 years of full time research, writing a thesis and getting published in peer reviewed journals.
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Different conversation. What about getting into the Batten school of leadership, finishing there. What about kids that got into the Marshall school of Business and finished. The requirements at just those two are off the charts.
 

Getting a professional degree is on another planet from getting a PhD.

Getting a master's degree can mean very different things, as well. Sometimes it means nothing more than taking an additional X credits of courses. Or it can mean doing a research project with a thesis and a defense.
 

builtbadgers said:
Different conversation. What about getting into the Batten school of leadership, finishing there. What about kids that got into the Marshall school of Business and finished. The requirements at just those two are off the charts.
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What about it?

BADGER
 

builtbadgers said:
Different conversation. What about getting into the Batten school of leadership, finishing there. What about kids that got into the Marshall school of Business and finished. The requirements at just those two are off the charts.
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What are you getting at? You said that every grad transfer you know got their grad degree, I said that not all grad degrees are equal.

Just because Batten is at your favorite school (at UVA) doesn't make it the best program in the country. It is ranked 34th in Public Affairs Master degree programs. I would suspect that the Public Affairs degree maybe a little less strenuous than your typical science or engineering master degree program. Marshall at USC is ranked 17th for MBA. Much better, but Carlson at the U is ranked 28th. And again, I have an MBA and it is not in the same universe as getting a masters degree in a science or engineering.

And of course, we are forgetting about the Kentucky's, UNC, etc.. that are not even concerned about the undergraduate degrees the player "get". I know I am painting with a wide brush and there are many students that work very hard to get fine degrees. This is just in context of the conversation where some are saying that many of the grad transfers are primarily concerned about playing BB.
 

alchemy2u said:
What are you getting at? You said that every grad transfer you know got their grad degree, I said that not all grad degrees are equal.

Just because Batten is at your favorite school (at UVA) doesn't make it the best program in the country. It is ranked 34th in Public Affairs Master degree programs. I would suspect that the Public Affairs degree maybe a little less strenuous than your typical science or engineering master degree program. Marshall at USC is ranked 17th for MBA. Much better, but Carlson at the U is ranked 28th. And again, I have an MBA and it is not in the same universe as getting a masters degree in a science or engineering.

And of course, we are forgetting about the Kentucky's, UNC, etc.. that are not even concerned about the undergraduate degrees the player "get". I know I am painting with a wide brush and there are many students that work very hard to get fine degrees. This is just in context of the conversation where some are saying that many of the grad transfers are primarily concerned about playing BB.
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Agree. Was posting against the idea that all athletes that grad transfers do not even graduate. Simply not true.
 


builtbadgers said:
Every grad transfer i know of got a graduate degree. Guess it matters where you went and what you were after from the beginning.
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Iowa State has many that are still working on their grad degrees to go pro in something other than sports.
 


Iowa State is an AAU school, and a very fine research university in its own right. It doesn't have any medical, due to U of Iowa taking that. So it is always going to be more limited in the research dollars it can build up.
 

Rhode Island (potential Gophers opponent in Hall of Fame Tip-Off) goes for 4 for 4 on its immediate eligibility transfer waivers. Can the Gophers go 2 for 2?

 
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MplsGopher said:
Iowa State is an AAU school, and a very fine research university in its own right. It doesn't have any medical, due to U of Iowa taking that. So it is always going to be more limited in the research dollars it can build up.
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But there research dollars are high enough to be AAU, unlike Nebraska W/O a medical school or at least one that is not directly associated with Lincoln.
 


SelectionSunday said:
Immediate eligibility waivers are being handed out like mini-Snickers at Halloween. I like Robbins’ odds much more than I did a couple weeks ago.
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I wanna agree, but we seem to struggle filling out the paperwork. “Additional information,” haven’t even filed”.
 

Landers Nolley got a waiver to play immediately at Memphis and he was a kid most expected would have to sit out a year. Just because I was curious: Memphis is exactly 40 minutes by car closer to his hometown in Georgia than Blacksburg (VTech) so I don't think closer to home was the reason he was approved.

One thing that concerns me about the Gophers waiver process is I listened to an interview with Pitino not that long ago where he briefly touched on the Marcus Carr waiver situation. It gave me the impression that the Gophers expected to have Carr's waiver approved because his coach was fired which has never been a reason the NCAA grants waivers. The Robbins situation mirrors the Carr situation in that Pitino has expressed optimism (could say even confidence) that Robbins waiver will be approved and much like Carr's waiver, Robbins waiver was sent back for "more information". Hopefully the outcome will be different this year. Going back to Pitino's first year, you could make a case that his entire tenure could have been different if Rakeem Buckles was approved as a transfer which could have put the Gophers in to the tournament that year.
 


Biggsohnasty said:
I don't understand why people think if a player has to sit for a year, they are being punished. If a player needs to transfer so badly out of the program that he's at, that he's willing to spend a season not playing, then by all means, transfer out.

But the culture of college hoops continues to trend towards guys constantly leaving and rosters turning over like crazy. I'm all for kids wanting to challenge themselves at a higher level, but I don't see how sitting a year and developing in the program is a bad thing.

And if the threat of having to sit for a year cuts down on some of the guys who just want to be recruited again or are leaving because that's just the way kids think now, I think the sport is far and away better.
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Completely agree. I don't like the idea of guys packing up to leave for greener pastures with little to no barriers. It leaves teammates high and dry and could potentially cause mass exodus from those teams.....completely destroying a program.

And while I realize that the rules are not the same for coaches....which isn't quite fair....I'd argue that a coach can be replaced easier than a significant portion of a squad.
 

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