1gophergnu
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Other than the obvious need for receivers, which position do you think needs the most upgrade for future years?
future recruiting
- Thread starter 1gophergnu
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Speed
Kill has made it clear that he is going to be looking for speed, athleticism, and work ethic. He particular wants to see more of this at defensive ends, defensive backs, and running backs. He also wants more depth thru ought and but I expect this is particularly true at the defensive linemen, center, and tight end positions. But again, this could be said about everything.
Getting there quickly could be a problem since we have approximately only 16/17 seniors and only 12/13 juniors on scholarship now. Therefore if normal attrition takes place, we will not have that many scholarships available for the next two years.
Kill has made it clear that he is going to be looking for speed, athleticism, and work ethic. He particular wants to see more of this at defensive ends, defensive backs, and running backs. He also wants more depth thru ought and but I expect this is particularly true at the defensive linemen, center, and tight end positions. But again, this could be said about everything.
Getting there quickly could be a problem since we have approximately only 16/17 seniors and only 12/13 juniors on scholarship now. Therefore if normal attrition takes place, we will not have that many scholarships available for the next two years.
Everywhere but maybe QB and RB need big upgrades in terms of numbers. We don't have a lot of young talent in the pipelines at
DT - Hageman's a soph and we don't know what we have with Jacques and Legania
LB - not a single young guy has been getting much mention so far. Beal has 3 years to play but no young guys has shown much
DB - Vereen and Bouie may be players but who knows. Have some promising young talent at S but CB is thin
TE - I'm not sold on any of the TE/HB types we've brought in during the last year but there are at least going to be bodies there
DT - Hageman's a soph and we don't know what we have with Jacques and Legania
LB - not a single young guy has been getting much mention so far. Beal has 3 years to play but no young guys has shown much
DB - Vereen and Bouie may be players but who knows. Have some promising young talent at S but CB is thin
TE - I'm not sold on any of the TE/HB types we've brought in during the last year but there are at least going to be bodies there
Bob_Loblaw
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- OT:He recruited a lot of good interior offensive lineman during the last season but we will need to land a couple tackle prospects.
- WR: I actually don't think WR is a gigantic recruiting need (as far as numbers) as we do have some decent prospects. They are all just extremely young. I would imagine that we will continue to add 3-4 WR types in every class though.
I guess my point is that right now we have Gardener, Trucilla, Crawford-Tufts and Jones signed up this season and McDonald signed up for next season. I think we will probably add another 2-3 WR types to next season's class, but don't expect a huge number.
- TE/HB: This is a position that we will use a lot of, so we need to continue to improve our numbers (probably in a hurry). I would actually be pretty surprised if we don't sign a TE/H-Back type of player out of the JuCo ranks. We will be losing 3 of our key players after this season (Lair, kid from Stillwater and Eure). On deck, we signed Goodger last season. He seems to project at TE because of his size, Heifort walked on, and we have Williams signed up for 2012. Now, we are going pretty hard after the kid from Osseo and also Ramacher. I could see us adding another couple HS kids (so like 3-5 total) and a JuCo guy next season.
- DT: We didn't add a DT last season and we can't have a major drop off a couple years in a row. I think we will add 2-3 DTs.
-Kill will always be looking for good CBs and DEs. I really can't imagine a season going by and us not recruiting speed rushing DEs and fast CBs almost every single season. We do have a pretty desperate need to add some more defensive backs. I'm not sure what position yet because we don't know where Cobb, Wells, Levine (I think LB) , Montgomery or Thompson will end up. But I imagine we will see pretty large numbers most seasons.
- WR: I actually don't think WR is a gigantic recruiting need (as far as numbers) as we do have some decent prospects. They are all just extremely young. I would imagine that we will continue to add 3-4 WR types in every class though.
I guess my point is that right now we have Gardener, Trucilla, Crawford-Tufts and Jones signed up this season and McDonald signed up for next season. I think we will probably add another 2-3 WR types to next season's class, but don't expect a huge number.
- TE/HB: This is a position that we will use a lot of, so we need to continue to improve our numbers (probably in a hurry). I would actually be pretty surprised if we don't sign a TE/H-Back type of player out of the JuCo ranks. We will be losing 3 of our key players after this season (Lair, kid from Stillwater and Eure). On deck, we signed Goodger last season. He seems to project at TE because of his size, Heifort walked on, and we have Williams signed up for 2012. Now, we are going pretty hard after the kid from Osseo and also Ramacher. I could see us adding another couple HS kids (so like 3-5 total) and a JuCo guy next season.
- DT: We didn't add a DT last season and we can't have a major drop off a couple years in a row. I think we will add 2-3 DTs.
-Kill will always be looking for good CBs and DEs. I really can't imagine a season going by and us not recruiting speed rushing DEs and fast CBs almost every single season. We do have a pretty desperate need to add some more defensive backs. I'm not sure what position yet because we don't know where Cobb, Wells, Levine (I think LB) , Montgomery or Thompson will end up. But I imagine we will see pretty large numbers most seasons.
WolfontheProwl
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I will go another direction.
To me this team's recruiting will be far different. Some postions will be important or more important than others but we have to remember this is a new coach with a new system. I would think over the next two classes we see far more balanced recruiting as he tries to bring in the type of athletes and players he wants. Rather than being overly focused on one position over another it will be about bringing in the type of players he wants at all positions. He will want to bring in his type of DB's, his style of RB's.
It wont simply being about bringing in a certain number of WR's or D-lineman. It will be bringing in balanced classes so that in three years he has his type of team on the field. If he gets to much into positions of need now it could take 3-4 years before his teams are actually taking the field.
To me this team's recruiting will be far different. Some postions will be important or more important than others but we have to remember this is a new coach with a new system. I would think over the next two classes we see far more balanced recruiting as he tries to bring in the type of athletes and players he wants. Rather than being overly focused on one position over another it will be about bringing in the type of players he wants at all positions. He will want to bring in his type of DB's, his style of RB's.
It wont simply being about bringing in a certain number of WR's or D-lineman. It will be bringing in balanced classes so that in three years he has his type of team on the field. If he gets to much into positions of need now it could take 3-4 years before his teams are actually taking the field.
short ornery norwegian
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I think that may turn out to be the biggest difference between Brewster and Kill. With Brewster, it seemed like they just went out and tried to recruit "the best athlete available" without really thinking about how that player would fit in their system. ---- of course, it's hard to recruit for a system when you change systems every year -------. With Kill, he and his staff have played the same system for years - they know exactly what type of athlete they need for each position, and I get the sense they will focus their recruiting much more specifically on filling needs at various positions - not just "we need 3 DT's," but we need a DT with these specific qualities/abilities.
It may take a couple of years to really get the team he wants, but I think having a more focused approach to recruiting may cut down on the # of "misses" in recruiting. Brewster just had too many kids who didn't pan out. Kill needs to have a much higher batting average.
It may take a couple of years to really get the team he wants, but I think having a more focused approach to recruiting may cut down on the # of "misses" in recruiting. Brewster just had too many kids who didn't pan out. Kill needs to have a much higher batting average.
dpodoll68
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What are you basing this on? Brewster's oldest HS recruits are just now seniors and redshirt juniors. Pretty much every player remaining from the 2008 class is a starter or major contributor.
To wit:
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Troy Stoudermire
Eric Lair
DeLeon Eskridge
Brandon Kirksey
Gary Tinsley
D.L. Wilhite
Ryan Grant
Da'Jon McKnight
Johnny Johnson
Shady Salamon
That's not even counting all the guys who transferred away or were kicked off for various reasons:
Sam Maresh
Kevin Whaley
Jewhan Edwards
Tim Dandridge
Brodrick Smith
Terrell Combs
Or counting the two guys who have been beset with injuries since their time on campus (both are juniors and still have plenty of time to contribute:
Brandon Green
Xzavian Brandon
It's also not counting two jucos who were major impact players from the beginning and have spent time on NFL rosters:
Simoni Lawrence
Traye Simmons
Out of 29 players signed that year, you can really only say that 3 "didn't pan out" (i.e., weren't good enough to play Big Ten football):
David Pittman
Rex Sharpe
John Nance
In other words, he found 26 out of 29 (89.7%) who were good enough to be starters/contributors on a Big Ten team. Batting just short of 90% is absolutely phenomenal. One never qualified and didn't make it to campus, while several (mentioned above) were either idiots and/or left for a myriad of reasons. These things happen in every program, and are not a reflection of Brewster's ability to spot and secure talent. The fact that he found 12 players good enough to be the core of a team 3 years later despite all the defections is amazing.
We could continue this exercise with the 2009 and 2010 classes, but I'm sure you'll agree it's even more stupid to rip on RS Fr/So/etc. than it is to rip on RS Jr/Sr who haven't even completed their college careers yet.
Once again, there are plenty of things to rip Brewster on. Why do people insist on making poor attempts to rip him for the one thing he was really, really good at? It's a losing battle, yet people still continue to try.
PurplePride
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We need defensive backs.
We have for many years.
We have for many years.
Geezo Beezo
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Brewster misses:
Didn't pan out (25) - C Brewster, T Herndon, C Thomas, R Spry, D White, H Howell, T Combs, T Dandridge, V Hill, J Johnson, S Maresh, J Nance, D Pittman, S Salamon, R Sharpe, R Gayden, H Carpenter, K Lewis, H Lipscomb, N Rengel, J Searcy, M Hill, W Tatum, H Thornton, D Tillman
Panned out but their Gopher career was cut short (6) - H Howell, T Brock, J Edwards, Brod Smith, K Whaley, B Allen,
Panned out (20) - K Theret, D Eskridge, M Gray, K Cooper, B Green, B Kirksey, E Lair, S Lawrence, C McKinley, D McKnight, T Simmons, T Stoudermire, G Tinsley, D Wilhite, M Carufel, K Royston, M Carter, EO, Orseske, J Wills
TBD - X Brandon, R Grant, S Reeves, M Alipate, M Garin, KGM, R Hageman, E Jacques, V Keise, B Michel, B Singleton, K Watkins, B Beal, The majority of the class of 2010
So far it's pretty even as far as hits vs misses. Unfortunately 6 of the 20 pan outs only had two years maximum of eligibility and 5 of the 6 careers cut short only contributed one year.
Didn't pan out (25) - C Brewster, T Herndon, C Thomas, R Spry, D White, H Howell, T Combs, T Dandridge, V Hill, J Johnson, S Maresh, J Nance, D Pittman, S Salamon, R Sharpe, R Gayden, H Carpenter, K Lewis, H Lipscomb, N Rengel, J Searcy, M Hill, W Tatum, H Thornton, D Tillman
Panned out but their Gopher career was cut short (6) - H Howell, T Brock, J Edwards, Brod Smith, K Whaley, B Allen,
Panned out (20) - K Theret, D Eskridge, M Gray, K Cooper, B Green, B Kirksey, E Lair, S Lawrence, C McKinley, D McKnight, T Simmons, T Stoudermire, G Tinsley, D Wilhite, M Carufel, K Royston, M Carter, EO, Orseske, J Wills
TBD - X Brandon, R Grant, S Reeves, M Alipate, M Garin, KGM, R Hageman, E Jacques, V Keise, B Michel, B Singleton, K Watkins, B Beal, The majority of the class of 2010
So far it's pretty even as far as hits vs misses. Unfortunately 6 of the 20 pan outs only had two years maximum of eligibility and 5 of the 6 careers cut short only contributed one year.
short ornery norwegian
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dpodoll - I admit I didn't go through the roster name-by-name before making my last post.
I was thinking more of some of the kids Brewster hyped who never panned out - Harold Howell, Hayo Carpenter, etc. - kids Brewster claimed would be game-changers, who never did squat.
Also, from my frame of reference, the category of "kids who didn't pan out" definitely includes kids like Maresh, Whaley and the others in that group - because they're not with the team any more. That constitutes "didn't pan out" in my book - I'm not saying they didn't have talent - I'm saying they're not on the team anymore. And if you're not on the team, you're not contributing.
And even in your top group of players, there are several who have been reserves, or part-time starters - not stars, not all-conference type players. You must define "major contributor" a lot differently than I do. Nothing personal, but is anyone out there really defending Tim Brewster by saying, "Hey, he knew what he was doing - he recruited Shady Solomon!" I think not. Even Traye Simmons did not cover himself with glory - he had some good moments, but by the end of his career, he was not starting, and left the team with some sour parting words.
I don't hate Brewster's guts, and I definitely did not come on here to bash him. Heck, back in the day on the Star-Tribune FB blog, I was one of the people defending Brewster against Wren, Loon and the Mason acolytes. But, I stand by what I said - I think Kill will be a better recruiter than Brewster, because he will recruit kids who fit his system, and that should give him a higher success ratio.
I was thinking more of some of the kids Brewster hyped who never panned out - Harold Howell, Hayo Carpenter, etc. - kids Brewster claimed would be game-changers, who never did squat.
Also, from my frame of reference, the category of "kids who didn't pan out" definitely includes kids like Maresh, Whaley and the others in that group - because they're not with the team any more. That constitutes "didn't pan out" in my book - I'm not saying they didn't have talent - I'm saying they're not on the team anymore. And if you're not on the team, you're not contributing.
And even in your top group of players, there are several who have been reserves, or part-time starters - not stars, not all-conference type players. You must define "major contributor" a lot differently than I do. Nothing personal, but is anyone out there really defending Tim Brewster by saying, "Hey, he knew what he was doing - he recruited Shady Solomon!" I think not. Even Traye Simmons did not cover himself with glory - he had some good moments, but by the end of his career, he was not starting, and left the team with some sour parting words.
I don't hate Brewster's guts, and I definitely did not come on here to bash him. Heck, back in the day on the Star-Tribune FB blog, I was one of the people defending Brewster against Wren, Loon and the Mason acolytes. But, I stand by what I said - I think Kill will be a better recruiter than Brewster, because he will recruit kids who fit his system, and that should give him a higher success ratio.
Geezo Beezo
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Back to the OP, we could definitely use more of everything excluding interior offensive linemen and linebacker. More important than where do we need help is we need playmakers regardless of position for the current class of around 17.
It looks like Andre McDonald could be a playmaker at WR and we'll need at least one other WR this year. Nelson is needed at QB and we could use another one in this class for depth purposes but it may not be the most pressing need at this point. We could use 2 TE this cycle since we're losing Lair, Eure and McGarry. We can always use talented OTs and another RB. A fullback may also be needed.
This defense needs the DEs to be able to generate a pass rush without a blitz so anyone that can get after the QB will be welcome pending on how the staff feels the current young DE are doing this spring. Cover corners are always valued by every team and we lose Stoudermire and J Johnson. Safety depth could be a concern after we lose Royston, Lewis and Shady.
It looks like Andre McDonald could be a playmaker at WR and we'll need at least one other WR this year. Nelson is needed at QB and we could use another one in this class for depth purposes but it may not be the most pressing need at this point. We could use 2 TE this cycle since we're losing Lair, Eure and McGarry. We can always use talented OTs and another RB. A fullback may also be needed.
This defense needs the DEs to be able to generate a pass rush without a blitz so anyone that can get after the QB will be welcome pending on how the staff feels the current young DE are doing this spring. Cover corners are always valued by every team and we lose Stoudermire and J Johnson. Safety depth could be a concern after we lose Royston, Lewis and Shady.
Brewster could recruit - he worked hard
"Once again, there are plenty of things to rip Brewster on. Why do people insist on making poor attempts to rip him for the one thing he was really, really good at? It's a losing battle, yet people still continue to try. " dpo
I agree, Brewster could recruit. Nobody anywhere is going to bat much higher are they?
Coach Kill, I believe will be a vastly superior coach. I expect results to be better. He'll develop the people he has. Will he have better talent to work with than he has now? I'm not sure about the answer to that.
He has been several places. I doubt he had better talent anywhere else than what he has right now, Yet, he beat Big Ten teams when he had lesser talent.
"Once again, there are plenty of things to rip Brewster on. Why do people insist on making poor attempts to rip him for the one thing he was really, really good at? It's a losing battle, yet people still continue to try. " dpo
I agree, Brewster could recruit. Nobody anywhere is going to bat much higher are they?
Coach Kill, I believe will be a vastly superior coach. I expect results to be better. He'll develop the people he has. Will he have better talent to work with than he has now? I'm not sure about the answer to that.
He has been several places. I doubt he had better talent anywhere else than what he has right now, Yet, he beat Big Ten teams when he had lesser talent.
fryguy22
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I think (slash hope) the answer is that it's a cycle. If he can win with this talent, recruiting will get a lot easier and he will be able to build the incoming talent level while winning with the current talent.
He also has BigTen resources to recruit to, an excellent community and school, a bigger budget, and a lot more TV time (maybe not even at 11 am!). He is also 350 miles farther away from any talent base he has done much with, but he can overcome that if the team is improving by year two.
Pretty sure the comment had to do with quite a few of the guys you listed that didn't pan out. If a guy is kicked off the team, he didn't pan out. If guys are always injured, they didn't pan out. If guys weren't able to make the transition to NCAA football (Pittman, Nance, Sharpe), they didn't pan out. You listed out 25 players. I would argue that at a minimum, 10 of them didn't pan out (Pittman, Sharpe, Nance, Brandon Green, Xzavian Brandon, Sam Maresh, Kevin Whaley, Tim Dandridge, Brodrick Smith, Terrell Combs). You've got 11 guys who are legitimate D1 caliber FB players from that class (Simoni, Traye, Gray, Cooper, Stoudamire, Lair, Kirksey, Wilhite, Eskridge, Tinsley, and McKnight). I haven't seen anything from Grant, Johnson, or Salamon in game action to show me they were worthy of a D1 offer (although every time I watch a Johnson practice I wonder why he doesn't play more). You aren't going to win many games when only 11/29 recruits actually see the field for your squad in a meaningful way.
harrys ghost
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Nice bit of revisionist history. Thanks.
harrys ghost
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I am so bored with the board right now that I am going to (against my better judgment) follow up on my previous snarky comment. There appear to be two issues being raised here: "panned out" and "see the field for your squad in a meaningful way". Neither of these terms seems to be defined. First let's consider "panned out". Why is a junior-to-be (Green) that has started and played in a number of games considered to be one that did not "pan out" while another junior-to-be (Gray) who has started a few games at a position other than that which he will play at this year is considered one that did not "pan out"? How is any junior that is still on the team and eligible, considered to have "not panned out" -- particularly if they have started multiple games. Next, what is "see the field for your squad in a meaningful way"? Consider Tramaine Brock. He was a juco. He started consistently his first year. He did not qualify academically his second year and played elsewhere. I suppose you could make the case that he did not "pan out" since he did not use up his eligibility here. It would be much more difficult to make the case that he did not "see the field in a meaningful way".
What about the other players not mentioned? Edwards played a lot as a freshman and sophomore and started as a junior. For whatever reason(s) he decided to take his show on the road. Did he "see the field in a meaningful way"? What about Reeves, another junior that has played and has a couple starts? Did he "pan out"? Has he "seen the field in a meaningful way"? What about Cedric McKinley (same two questions)?
short ornery norwegian
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Ghost -
I think a few of us expect a higher standard than "any junior that is still on the team and eligible" when weighing whether a player has "panned out." And, you compare Brandon Green to MarQueis Gray - last year, Gray at his 2nd position, WR, was 2nd on the team in catches, yards gained and TD's - definitely an impact player. Brandon Green - 0 catches, 0 yards and 0 TD's. (Granted, in '09 Green did come up with 21 catches for 293 yards, and showed some promise). I'm not criticizing Green for being injured - injuries happen - but if a player is not playing for any reason (injuries, grades, attitude, lack of talent), he's not contributing.
Some of the people on this thread seem almost desperate to defend Brewster's recruiting prowess.
Here's my final take: Helmet schools like Ohio State, Nebraska, Michigan and others can afford to miss on a few recruits, because they have multiple 4* and 5* recruits to choose from. The Gophs are not at a stage where they can afford to miss on any recruits. They don't have a stockpile of 4* and 5* recruits. for the Gophs to reach the level we all want them to reach, they need to maximize their recruiting. They can't afford to lose kids to grades, attitude, or lack of talent, and they can't afford to swing and miss on too many recruits.
I think a few of us expect a higher standard than "any junior that is still on the team and eligible" when weighing whether a player has "panned out." And, you compare Brandon Green to MarQueis Gray - last year, Gray at his 2nd position, WR, was 2nd on the team in catches, yards gained and TD's - definitely an impact player. Brandon Green - 0 catches, 0 yards and 0 TD's. (Granted, in '09 Green did come up with 21 catches for 293 yards, and showed some promise). I'm not criticizing Green for being injured - injuries happen - but if a player is not playing for any reason (injuries, grades, attitude, lack of talent), he's not contributing.
Some of the people on this thread seem almost desperate to defend Brewster's recruiting prowess.
Here's my final take: Helmet schools like Ohio State, Nebraska, Michigan and others can afford to miss on a few recruits, because they have multiple 4* and 5* recruits to choose from. The Gophs are not at a stage where they can afford to miss on any recruits. They don't have a stockpile of 4* and 5* recruits. for the Gophs to reach the level we all want them to reach, they need to maximize their recruiting. They can't afford to lose kids to grades, attitude, or lack of talent, and they can't afford to swing and miss on too many recruits.
harrys ghost
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I could care less about Brewster. I just think it is very bush league to be declaring players with two (or possibly three, in the case of Brandon) years of eligibility left as somehow not "panning out". By your logic, Beal did not "pan out". Heck, he missed two years because of injuries.
As for Green, don't forget he started five games as a true freshman and had 21 catches for 306 yards.